NBA Playoffs

[JayRob]

:xeye::xeye::smh:


Jay,

I ain't messin' with you bruh, but I gotta ask...

have you ever played organized basketball before??? Seriously... I ask this because there's nothing "individual" about how CP3 is making that squad better...It's pretty hard to "haphazzardly" have the assist average that he has, particulary when it's directly responsible for the offensive effeciency for an entire team. It's pretty simple; without CP, NO loses this series BIG. wITH CP, they may sweep this series, or at least take it in 5 or 6 games.

The dude could've dropped 50 or 60 a couple of times this year. If you've actually watched him at all this year, there hasn't really been anybody that's been able to stay in front of him in the league this year at the 1 or 2 (yeah, that includes EBOK, too)...He can get his shot (or get to the rim) anytime he wants at a shade over 6 ft. tall and you're actually spittin' mess like:



:xeye: @ :smh: at this nonsense...his game is built for teams to win...period.

The kid's a pure point guard; probably one of the best 1's to come in the league in the last 2 decades. That's what his game is built like. He don't have to score 49 points a game in order to impact it. That's what MVP calibre players do.

Dude is the best pg in the league right now. He's better than AI, he's better than Jason Kidd, He's better than Steve Nash (and I really dig Steve's game)...

Deron Williams is probably the closest thing to Chris Paul right now at the one and he's a distant second.

I know you love everything EBOK, but to trivialize everybody else in the quest of your boyhood hero worship is a bit over the top... :smh:

Dude, to even make the comment, "I ain't messin with you", shows your intention.

Since you questioned whether not I played organized sports, that gives me the go ahead to question your ability to comprehend what I said.

Individual assists ARE overrated. Team assists matters more. Ball movement by the entire team matters more than ball movement predicated by one player.

Over the past 15 or so years, Steve Nash and Stockton has led the league year after year in individual assists, but they never won anything. I presume the same will be with Paul.

And as far as Paul's scoring ability, neither his position as point guard, nor his individual "game", allows him, on a nightly basis to be a prolific scorer.
Allen Iverson is a better scorer than Paul. Unlike Paul, he can shoot going to either his left or his right and he doesn't need pick and rolls to get him free for the open shot.

 

[crazylegs]

I know what you said and it doesn't make sense... :smh:

Hence the reason why I asked you if you've ever played organized ball...

Since it's pretty clear you haven't, let me clue you in to some things:

First, the pick & roll is practically present in almost all of the offensive schemes in the league in some form or fashion. The last couple of NBA champs ran "pick & roll" elements in their sets...

What does that have to do with CP's effectiveness as a Point Guard??? The guy is a Guaranteed 20pt/10 assist dude every game. More importantly, he runs their offense to a T and gets everybody else involved...

I know it's a bit hard for you to grasp, but a great point guard doesn't have to score 40 to 80 points a game in order to be the catalyst for his squad.

AI maybe a better scorer (right now), but is he a better Point Guard? Does he make the people around him better? nope and it ain't even close... To be frank with you, AI's always been a 2 in a 1's body, in mentality and everything else. The ball goes in his hands and it stays there. He's gotten alot better over the years at developing some good decision-making at the 1, but when push comes to shove, he'll revert back to the mentality of a 2. It's something that's plagued him his entire career.

There ain't none of that conflict in CP...that's why that squad if flourishing.

You talking about what kind of a scorer he is; I'm talking about what kind of impact he's having as a facilitator of N.O.'s entire offensive attack. He's doing to Dallas what he's been doing to the great majority of NBA defenses all season; Picking them apart and getting the best shot oppurtunities for his squad to score, whether it's himself or someone else.

Do you know what this dude's assist to turnover ratio is for the year? :lol:

If you can't wrap your mind around the simple idea that scoring and "assist total" are only part of the picture, then i guess you've gotta watch the game a bit more...

Team assists matters more. Ball movement by the entire team matters more than ball movement predicated by one player.

:xeye: :retard: :xeye: :smh:

Who do you think facilitates that ball movement? Whose the leader on the floor that keeps folks in the right spots in the halfcourt, or determines when and where to attack the defense in the halfcourt???

That "team" ball movement has to start someplace...Moreso, that 'team' ball movement doesn't exist unless you've got a facilitator to get those other 4 cats on the same page when the halfcourt set begins...

the last time I checked, that's what great PG's do...I guess you'd have Pau Gasol or Andrew Bynum running point because they pass the rock well for big men... :smh: You guys are actually getting halfway decent PG play this season and that's a start...You can send Derek Fisher and Jordan Farmar a thank you card for christmas or something...

dude, I understand that you love all things EBOK, but this is sad...I guess scoring is more of an indicator of MVP status then how you actually impact your team's welfare...

 

[jag4life]

I didn't read all of that ^^^. But I'd venture to say that crazylegs makes a good point about point guards facilitating and being able to dominate a game without scoring much.

Can't argue against either player winning the MVP.

 

[Dr. Phreeze]

I guess Majic Johnson and Tony Parker are overrated...Isiah too.

 

[jag4life]

^^^ Chris Paul reminds me of Isiah without the gayness.

 

[JayRob]

I guess Majic Johnson and Tony Parker are overrated...Isiah too.

Not sure who you're referring your comments to, but I never said Paul was overrated? I said individual assists are overrated and that Paul's game and position doesn't allow HIM to be a prolific scorer on a nightly basis.

 

[crazylegs]

I didn't read all of that ^^^. But I'd venture to say that crazylegs makes a good point about point guards facilitating and being able to dominate a game without scoring much.

Can't argue against either player winning the MVP.

It's cool Jag...You read the important parts...*lmao* :lol:

I didn't intend to go off on a tangent, but dayumn @ some of the aforementioned nonsense...*lol* :smh:

The reality is that both EBOK and CP3 have had mvp calibre seasons and their squads are reaping the benefits of their performance.

It's not something you can just ignore....I mean JayRob might, but most basketball savvy folk won't...lol

 

[JayRob]

I know what you said and it doesn't make sense... :smh:

Hence the reason why I asked you if you've ever played organized ball...

Since it's pretty clear you haven't, let me clue you in to some things:

First, the pick & roll is practically present in almost all of the offensive schemes in the league in some form or fashion. The last couple of NBA champs ran "pick & roll" elements in their sets...

I know it's a bit hard for you to grasp, but a great point guard doesn't have to score 40 to 80 points a game in order to be the catalyst for his squad.

Dude, the issue I'm talking about has nothing to do with whether or not Paul is a good player. There's no question that he is.

Some folks say I get offensive when someone talks about Kobe, you being one of 'em, so now what are you doing now that I made a couple of statements not in Paul's favor?

Paul cannot create his scoring like Iverson. He needs the pick and roll and he needs to be using his RIGHT hand 80 percent of the time. Watch tonight when he plays how many times he goes to his right, how many times he passes with his right hand, how many times he shoots fading to his left versus his right. Magic, Stockton and Nash consistently used either hand to pass the ball and could shoot fading to the right or left.

The other point was the individual assists versus team assists. My opinion is simply that team assists trump individual assists. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[crazylegs]

out of curiosity Jay,

what is it about CP3's "game" that prevents him from being a prolific scorer???

I mean, what you base that assumption on?

Is it his mid-range game???

His ability to create offensive oppurtunities off-the dribble or get to the rim and the foul line???

I'm just sayin' *lol*....From what I've seen, CP3 could average 30 a game easily if the Hornets needed him to do it....

The ability to shoot from distance???

the wrong shoes??? what do you see??? *lol*

 

[s phi s]

Dude, the issue I'm talking about has nothing to do with whether or not Paul is a good player. There's no question that he is.

Some folks say I get offensive when someone talks about Kobe, you being one of 'em, so now what are you doing now that I made a couple of statements not in Paul's favor?

Paul cannot create his scoring like Iverson. He needs the pick and roll and he needs to be using his RIGHT hand 80 percent of the time. Watch tonight when he plays how many times he goes to his right, how many times he passes with his right hand, how many times he shoots fading to his left versus his right. Magic, Stockton and Nash consistently used either hand to pass the ball and could shoot fading to the right or left.

The other point was the individual assists versus team assists. My opinion is simply that team assists trump individual assists. Nothing more, nothing less.

Without picking sides in this one, let me ask you a serious question. What difference does it make whether he goes right or left if the other team isn't stopping him from doing what he is trying to do? If what you say is true (not saying it is or isn't), then why don't teams play his right side and take his "whole game" away? Because whatever he is doing, apparently teams are not stopping it.

 

[SUtrp96]

:xeye::xeye::smh:


Jay,

I ain't messin' with you bruh, but I gotta ask...

have you ever played organized basketball before??? Seriously... I ask this because there's nothing "individual" about how CP3 is making that squad better...It's pretty hard to "haphazzardly" have the assist average that he has, particulary when it's directly responsible for the offensive effeciency for an entire team. It's pretty simple; without CP, NO loses this series BIG. wITH CP, they may sweep this series, or at least take it in 5 or 6 games.

The dude could've dropped 50 or 60 a couple of times this year. If you've actually watched him at all this year, there hasn't really been anybody that's been able to stay in front of him in the league this year at the 1 or 2 (yeah, that includes EBOK, too)...He can get his shot (or get to the rim) anytime he wants at a shade over 6 ft. tall and you're actually spittin' mess like:



:xeye: @ :smh: at this nonsense...his game is built for teams to win...period.

The kid's a pure point guard; probably one of the best 1's to come in the league in the last 2 decades. That's what his game is built like. He don't have to score 49 points a game in order to impact it. That's what MVP calibre players do.

Dude is the best pg in the league right now. He's better than AI, he's better than Jason Kidd, He's better than Steve Nash (and I really dig Steve's game)...

Deron Williams is probably the closest thing to Chris Paul right now at the one and he's a distant second.

I know you love everything EBOK, but to trivialize everybody else in the quest of your boyhood hero worship is a bit over the top... :smh:

lmao...

 

[crazylegs]

Dude, the issue I'm talking about has nothing to do with whether or not Paul is a good player. There's no question that he is.

Some folks say I get offensive when someone talks about Kobe, you being one of 'em, so now what are you doing now that I made a couple of statements not in Paul's favor?

Paul cannot create his scoring like Iverson. He needs the pick and roll and he needs to be using his RIGHT hand 80 percent of the time. Watch tonight when he plays how many times he goes to his right, how many times he passes with his right hand, how many times he shoots fading to his left versus his right. Magic, Stockton and Nash consistently used either hand to pass the ball and could shoot fading to the right or left.

The other point was the individual assists versus team assists. My opinion is simply that team assists trump individual assists. Nothing more, nothing less.

Jay, You missin' the point...You payin' attention to the wrong stuff, man...*lol*

Nobody in the league below 6'1 has been able to score like AI has in the last decade...What does that have to do with CP3 having an MVP calibre season?

I've watched dude all season and he's as crafty off of the dribble with either hand as anybody in the league right now...he can finish with either hand; pass with either hand.

Pick and Roll this...Pick and Roll that...:smh:

Did it ever occur to you that CP3 is the reason why Dallas is getting carved up like a Sunday turkey on the pick & Roll?

The Pick & Roll is a tool; It forces the defense in the halfcourt to commit to one offensive threat or the other and it gives the PG and the 2nd player running it multiple offensive options after the defense commits.

Your predicating all of this liability mess off of how CP3 reads a pick and roll, or which way he fades on a jumpshot??? :xeye:

If that were the case, he'd crumble every time someone hedged right on a pick & Roll...He reads what the D is doing better than any PG in this league is doing right now...

The Bottom line is that CP3 isn't just a good player; he's an MVP candidate in his 3rd year in the league at arguably the hardest position to play effectively in the league...It just ain't something you can just trivialize.

As far as you and EBOK goes, that's your love affair, not mine...Dude is having the success he's having this season because he isn't dominating the ball like he's been doing for the last 5 or 6 seasons...Nobody's hatin' on him; he's having a great season, but he ain't the only guy having an mvp-worthy season in the league.

 

[PsychoJag]

CP3 is averaging 33 points per game in the playoffs right now and shooting over 60%. He doesn't take half as many shots as AI or Kobe. If CP3 wanted to he could put up big scoring numbers but he does things to improve his TEAM not only himself.

Jayrob, Stockton and Nash never won a title but that had nothing to do with the fact that they had alot of assists. Nash's team plays 0 defense and Stockton played during the Jordan era.

 

[jag4life]

Jayrob, Stockton and Nash never won a title but that had nothing to do with the fact that they had alot of assists. Nash's team plays 0 defense and Stockton played during the Jordan era.

Now you know his reply right?

"...and Jordan was a scorer, not an individual assist man"

:lmao:

 

[PsychoJag]

Now you know his reply right?

"...and Jordan was a scorer, not an individual assist man"

:lmao:

And I'd come back with the fact that his career high in assists is 17. MJ could do it all on the court and a few seasons MJ averaged as much as 8 assists per game.

 

[JayRob]

Without picking sides in this one, let me ask you a serious question. What difference does it make whether he goes right or left if the other team isn't stopping him from doing what he is trying to do? If what you say is true (not saying it is or isn't), then why don't teams play his right side and take his "whole game" away? Because whatever he is doing, apparently teams are not stopping it.

I can't answer that question, and you have a good point.
Avery Johnson's defensive schemes kept allowing him to go to his right at will. It's not that difficult to force a player to his weak hand, but Avery doesn't seem to know this and a few other coaches either.

It's not exactly rocket science.

 

[JayRob]

Jay, You missin' the point...You payin' attention to the wrong stuff, man...*lol*

As far as you and EBOK goes, that's your love affair, not mine...Dude is having the success he's having this season because he isn't dominating the ball like he's been doing for the last 5 or 6 seasons...Nobody's hatin' on him; he's having a great season, but he ain't the only guy having an mvp-worthy season in the league.

No, you're missing the point. You're so eager to trivialize this to just me liking Kobe's game, that you read right over simple, yet accurate points I made about Paul's "game" and individual assists versus team assists.

You can read something all day long, but comprehending what you read is a necessity.

 

[Kendrick]

Dude, the issue I'm talking about has nothing to do with whether or not Paul is a good player. There's no question that he is.

Some folks say I get offensive when someone talks about Kobe, you being one of 'em, so now what are you doing now that I made a couple of statements not in Paul's favor?

Paul cannot create his scoring like Iverson. He needs the pick and roll and he needs to be using his RIGHT hand 80 percent of the time. Watch tonight when he plays how many times he goes to his right, how many times he passes with his right hand, how many times he shoots fading to his left versus his right. Magic, Stockton and Nash consistently used either hand to pass the ball and could shoot fading to the right or left.

The other point was the individual assists versus team assists. My opinion is simply that team assists trump individual assists. Nothing more, nothing less.

1. All players use their dominate hand more often than not. That's a moot point. You are just nikpicking.
2. Individual assists might not mean much. However, players like Paul, Williams and Nash put their teammates in better positions to score. Plus, with those guys running the point, they make their teammates better by making the game easier for them.

It's much easier to play with a player who you know will make good decisions with the basketball than a player who does not. It can be related to hockey when one player makes a pass to a teammate that leads to a goal by another player.

A good point guard might not get credit for a single assist, but more often than not that point guard will get credit for making the pass that eventually leads to a easy basket.

 

[jag4life]

Speaking of right hand... did yall see that move by Caron Butler? Split 2 defenders with a spin move and hung in the air to score... all right hand.

 

[JayRob]

1. All players use their dominate hand more often than not. That's a moot point. You are just nikpicking.
2. Individual assists might not mean much. However, players like Paul, Williams and Nash put their teammates in better positions to score. Plus, with those guys running the point, they make their teammates better by making the game easier for them.

--It's not a moot point if 80 percent of your passes, dribbling and shooting is on one side of the court. Peja shoots most of his shots on the right side behind the three point line.

Let's see if Avery will force Paul to his off hand tonight and let's see if he will force the Hornets to shoot the ball on the left side of the court as much as possible.

If Avery can figure this out, the game will be a lot easier for Dallas to win.

My debate is not about who is the best assist man, my debate simply is that a team with five players who can pass the ball, is much more valuable than an individual player who can pass. If that individual player is out, the team's offense sputters, but if all of the players have decent passing skills, it won't make that much of a difference.
Over the years, the Bulls, Lakers (under Jackson), Detroit and San Antonio have proven this to be true.

I'd rather have three or four decent passers on my team than one great passer on my team.

One side not to remember: The last player to BOTH lead the NBA in assists and win a championship was Magic Johnson in 1987. That's more than 21 years ago.

 

[SUtrp96]

Speaking of right hand... did yall see that move by Caron Butler? Split 2 defenders with a spin move and hung in the hair to score... all right hand.

I like plays like that far better than dunks.. that isht was SICK!!!

 

[crazylegs]

No, you're missing the point. You're so eager to trivialize this to just me liking Kobe's game, that you read right over simple, yet accurate points I made about Paul's "game" and individual assists versus team assists.

You can read something all day long, but comprehending what you read is a necessity.

I'm not trivializing anything; You're just not grasping what's being said... :smh:

You still don't get it; You're talking about individual points (or percieved weaknesses) of CP3's game...I'm talking about the impact he's having on N.O.'s overall effectiveness as an offensive team...

That goes beyond assist and scoring totals and that's why he's an mvp candidate this year.


His performance so far in the playoffs to this point is a testament to that...


As far as LA's total team assists go, you do understand that much of that same line up is pretty much the same as it has been the past couple of seasons, right?

LA's team assist output is up this season because of the following:

1) EBOK is doing less free-lancing in halfcourt sets.

2) EBOK isn't dominating the ball for the majority of the shot clock every trip down the floor this season (see reason #1)

3) The triangle is being run the way it's meant to be run, from the inside-out...PAu Gasol's addition to the team has really enhanced the effectiveness of it because of his versitility, but you've had a 6'10 point forward and a 6'8 SF that have been allowed to get the rock enough to make good decisions within the offense...(see reasons 1&2).

Those TEAM assist totals have come about because everybody has a good understanding of the offense and their respective roles within it, including EBOK.

You talkin' like everybody's interchangable because their good passers within the offense; It don't work like that...You still have to have someone on the floor that facilitates the offense; the triangle is no different, despite the importance of the post players within it...You might be able to plug Lamar Odom or Luke Walton in at the 1 in a pinch; We've already seen what happens when EBOK runs the one spot... :smh:

Both Jordan Farmar and Derek Fisher have been solid in that respect this season and it's gone a long way to making that offense efficient again.

No "trivializing" here; it simply is what it is...

 

[Warndalyn]

Me and my friend have been arguing our asses off about the Mavs. :lmao: I'm torn in this game. New Orleans has my heart cuz that's pretty much home, but the Mavs have Avery and he's from SU & N.O. So, I guess I'll be ok either way.

oh yeah, and the Lakers will beat whomever they're playing. As far as everyone else...don't know, don't really care. I just like to watch the games.

 

[JayRob]

As far as LA's total team assists go, you do understand that much of that same line up is pretty much the same as it has been the past couple of seasons, right?

Dude, forty percent of the Lakers starting lineup is no longer with the team, plus there are new players on the team like Gasol and Fisher, plus Bynum and Ariza have been out most of the year, so no, the same team the Lakers had last year is not on the court and hasn't been all year.

The primary difference is that Kobe's support players are hitting their shots when they are open. Kobe led the team in assists last year with around five plus per game. This year he's averaging five plus as well. His shooting percentage is similar to last years average.
Plus the Lakers are playing better team defense.

Kobe actually played better ball last year, but he didn't have a better supporting cast of players to get him out of the first round. Smush and Kwame Brown couldn't throw it in the ocean, and neither could Luke Walton.

Except for scoring, Kobe's stats are basically the same as they were last year.

 

[JaguarNation99]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

JayRob, serious question. If you're saying that Kobe's stats aren't any better than last year, that he played better last year, just that he has better teammates now, then what exactly is the argument that he should be MVP?