Is Kobe Toying with the league


Status
Not open for further replies.
crazylegs said:
Blade,

Hakeem didn't get that way overnight...When he got to the league from U of H, his ball skills were pretty raw. He didn't get to that plateau that we're used to seeing him at until he was in the league quite some time.
Click to expand...
But, CL...he averaged 20.6 his rookie year. That ain't exactly slouch numbers for a so-called non-polished Center. You don't become that high a pick if you're THAT raw, anyway.

His only true soreness his rookie year was FT's and his mid-range shooting was iffy.

When he honed his offensive game, alot of squads had to double him. Nobody's denying that. What I'm saying is that Shaq was like that from the moment he set foot on an NBA floor because of the physical gifts he had. Nobody's denying that the Dream and a more polished skillset...Shaq simply didn't need to be that polished with the physical tools he had.
Click to expand...
Shaq's one skill set was power. Nothing else. He was a force in the paint on "D"...but, Dream was as much, if not more-so that same force. Only difference is, Shaq was/is more imposing, physically. But, you know good'n da*n well wasn't anybody going in on that African, either, withouth thinking twice.

Shaq didn't need much polish. But, then again...with "his game" how much polish do you need? His game was soley being able to move objects. Shaq's percentages were up, too...but, then again, all he did was dunk when he got into the league. He got his 5-10ft (as opposed to Hakeem's 15-18ft) game later on in his years, also.

Both were great defensive players (Hakeem having the better defensive instincts), but Shaq effectively canceled out any opposing offensive rebounding opportunities for the majority of opposing squads in the league.
Click to expand...
Agree to disagree. Cuz, Hakeem had the same effect. I mean, like Ive stated...Hakeem still holds the Blocks record by a WIDE margin. So, Hakeem was not only block'n...he was stealing, altering shots and windex the boards, too.

it drove coaches crazy game planning against Hakeem, but he did have trouble against defenders that physical, or could muscle him off of the block and get him out of that comfort zone. He wouldn't have developed the mid-range game he did without that pressure. Shaq, on the other hand, could simply out-muscle anybody in the league (still can to an extent) and get to the rim whenever he wanted to.
Click to expand...
:lol:...Naaaah, Crazy. Man, wasn't nobody moving that African like that. The only Center I can remember even coming close to moving him like that, physically, was Mark Eaton. Hakeem added those offensive weapons cuz he HAD TO, because he had to have a way to get past Moses Malone back in his Univ of Houston days. His natural born althetic ability allowed his game to continue to grow in that aspect. He didn't just pick up shooting from outside his other moves when he got to the league.

I see you keep naming that one aspect, too. "Out-muscle". Sorry, bruh...Ima need more than a big body that can out-muscle a player. Esp, when you travel 75% of the time...and, couldn't hit your FT's after you've gotten fouled. No doubt...Shaq completely utilized his size and ability. But, that's not better than Hakeem.

Defensively, you just couldn't gameplan for Shaq, save fouling him...Even now, you can't throw zones at him because he's develped as a passer enough to keep defenses honest (another reason why he was so effective in the triangle offense in LA). Manning him up is futile, much like it was with Hakeem, albeit for completely different reasons.
Click to expand...
Check the tape. Hakeem took care of business with Shaq. Sometimes without help. Shaq could not handle Hakeem by himself until he got to Toronto.

And, you could defend Shaq. It was called Hack-a-Shaq...:lol:

no doubt, the dream was a way better offensive player in terms of raw technial basketball ability, but some NBA centers just have physical gifts that you can't teach. Despite some of his shortcomings, shaq is one of those rare 5's that you can't match-up with one on one without putting extreme pressure on your entire defense.
Click to expand...
You can, if you have a center than can hold his position and get Shaq to shoot more off-balance than he usually shot. It's been done.


Ps- You DO know when ever Im ready...I can just pull out old footage of Shaq getting schooled by Olajuwon, right? And, Shaq was well into the league, and supposedly had the help of the "next Jordan" at the time, Penny.

Man, I WISH Hakeem had ANYONE the caliber of Penny, Kobe or DWade.
 
Last edited:
Shaq showed what he was about when Detroit put a man against him in 04 (Ben Wallace). His big lazy ass disappeared.

And if he was so good, why is it that the Lakers record this year is top 3 all time? The team was built around Shaq, but he didnt feel like it was important for him to come to camp in shape and ready to go. Not Shaq. He wanted to play his way in shape and not be ready to compete until after the AllStar break.

If I were GM, I woulda traded his big lazy ass in 2003 when he refused to get his toe operated on until a week before the season when he knew it needed the operation in June. he said he wasnt going to get his toe operated on during HIS TIME. yet folks are so stupid they still blame Kobe for running Shaq out of town. Hell I woulda ran his ass out of town too. Shaq didnt want to play until March and he wanted Kobe to carry the load for most of the season.

The fact is the Lakers are a much better team all around with Kobe at the head. Now the Lakers have 4 twenty point scorers instead of 2 and they are a more diverse team. Again I think they need Mbenga, but who am I?

I will give Shaq credit for hammering Tony Parkers ass trying to come down the lane in 2004. It was over for him after that.
 



Get Ready said:
Shaq showed what he was about when Detroit put a man against him in 04 (Ben Wallace). His big lazy ass disappeared.
Click to expand...

That matchup between Shaq and Ben Wallace wasn't the main reason why Detroit won in 04.

Kobe couldn't stop Rip nor Chauncey.
 
O'Bladerunner said:
But, CL...he averaged 20.6 his rookie year. That ain't exactly slouch numbers for a so-called non-polished Center. You don't become that high a pick if you're THAT raw, anyway.

His only true soreness his rookie year was FT's and his mid-range shooting was iffy.


Shaq's one skill set was power. Nothing else. He was a force in the paint on "D"...but, Dream was as much, if not more-so that same force. Only difference is, Shaq was/is more imposing, physically. But, you know good'n da*n well wasn't anybody going in on that African, either, withouth thinking twice.

Shaq didn't need much polish. But, then again...with "his game" how much polish do you need? His game was soley being able to move objects. Shaq's percentages were up, too...but, then again, all he did was dunk when he got into the league. He got his 5-10ft (as opposed to Hakeem's 15-18ft) game later on in his years, also.


Agree to disagree. Cuz, Hakeem had the same effect. I mean, like Ive stated...Hakeem still holds the Blocks record by a WIDE margin. So, Hakeem was not only block'n...he was stealing, altering shots and windex the boards, too.


:lol:...Naaaah, Crazy. Man, wasn't nobody moving that African like that. The only Center I can remember even coming close to moving him like that, physically, was Mark Eaton. Hakeem added those offensive weapons cuz he HAD TO, because he had to have a way to get past Moses Malone back in his Univ of Houston days. His natural born althetic ability allowed his game to continue to grow in that aspect. He didn't just pick up shooting from outside his other moves when he got to the league.

I see you keep naming that one aspect, too. "Out-muscle". Sorry, bruh...Ima need more than a big body that can out-muscle a player. Esp, when you travel 75% of the time...and, couldn't hit your FT's after you've gotten fouled. No doubt...Shaq completely utilized his size and ability. But, that's not better than Hakeem.


Check the tape. Hakeem took care of business with Shaq. Sometimes without help. Shaq could not handle Hakeem by himself until he got to Toronto.

And, you could defend Shaq. It was called Hack-a-Shaq...:lol:


You can, if you have a center than can hold his position and get Shaq to shoot more off-balance than he usually shot. It's been done.


Ps- You DO know when ever Im ready...I can just pull out old footage of Shaq getting schooled by Olajuwon, right? And, Shaq was well into the league, and supposedly had the help of the "next Jordan" at the time, Penny.

Man, I WISH Hakeem had ANYONE the caliber of Penny, Kobe or DWade.
Click to expand...

Blade,

I watched those Ewing vs. Hakeem match-ups in college...Dude's ball skills were NOWHERE near developed. He was extremely quick on the block and relied on that quickness to get to spots in the paint before anybody else. He didn't have a "back-to-the-basket" repetoire to speak of. He had the same problem with Pat early in his career in the league because they were so similar in terms of athletic make-up. Their games developed roughly along the same track (Dream ended up having the better all-around post game; Pat's face up/spot-up game was a little better)

You ain't gettin' what I'm sayin....We ALREADY KNOW that the Dream was a better center in terms of skillset...Heck, there weren't many folks in the history of the game whose game developed on the block the way Hakeem's did.


That's never been in dispute. I'm saying that Shaq had more of an impact in terms of the overall game for opponents in his prime than Hakeem did...Even as good as the Dream was in his early career, he didn't cause opposing defenses to gameplan for him soley. Shaq was that way the moment he stepped into the league. He didn't have to develop in that way because NOBODY COULD STOP HIM once he got the ball on the block.

Heck, even Dream couldn't play him straight up on the offensive end consistently without a consistent double-team. The closest guy to do that that I saw, ironically, was Mark Eaton. Even he had trouble keeping him form where he wanted to go in the lane.

~sigh~

Blade, at least we can have an intelligent debate about the matter; Two cats that understand the game...i see the GR has brought his unmistakable aura of hate and lack of basketball knowledge into the thread...It's all down hill from here...:lol::lol::lol:
 
Jax said:
c'mon now I expected this type of response from jayrob or gr.

:shame:
Click to expand...

Yall just have selective memory. Shaq's ineffectiveness against Ben Wallace is the reason the Lakers lost that series. That series got Ben Wallace all that money from Chicago.
 
Jax said:
That matchup between Shaq and Ben Wallace wasn't the main reason why Detroit won in 04.

Kobe couldn't stop Rip nor Chauncey.
Click to expand...

hallelujah!!!!!
christneedsyouth.JPG
 
jag4life said:
Yall just have selective memory. Shaq's ineffectiveness against Ben Wallace is the reason the Lakers lost that series. That series got Ben Wallace all that money from Chicago.
Click to expand...

not particularly...


there were still alot of opportunities for that squad offensively on the floor because shaq just being there created them. Sheed and Ben helped each other out the entire series and it was extremely effective against him. That being said, perimeter play entirely dissapeared that series for LA.

Billups, Rip, and Tayshaun out played their couterparts by a WIDE margin..that includes EBOK.
 
We are talking about all these giants it took to stop one MAN Shaq..

Let talk about how the Celtics took turns even with the bench to stop Kobe..Even that real old dude... That was so pure comedy watching Kobe junk get smacked around. Watching P.P J him up at will.... Talk about some great T.V. ey TopDog, I betcha 24 ain't have NOTHING on that huh?
 
Last edited:
FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MNxPfsezN5o&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MNxPfsezN5o&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
NO NEED TO THANK ME NOW, YOU CAN THANK GR LATER
 



mighty hornet said:
No, but when kobe tried to check Hamilton, Hamilton had a field day. When kobe tried to check Billups, Billups became MVP.
:scared:
Click to expand...

Kobe was tripled teamed in that series. They left everybody else open and they couldn't buy baskets. Robert H, Fisher,Fox all those guys shots were broke by then. Kobe was dayum near playing Detroit by himself. Chauncy was killing Fisher. We had nothing left. Teams had finally figured out how to beat the Lakers. Let Shaq score and shut down kobe. Our role players were sorry then. We had no money because Shaq's contract was too big to sign decent players. Carl Malone was hurt and GP couldn't buy a basket to save his life either. Tayshun Prince length was to much for our Fowards and Guards. Kobe carried all of them cats the entire season.

Then Horry gets to San Antonio where he had Ginobli, Duncan and Parker to take all the pressure off him. Bowens on defense. He rarely played any during the season and discovered his jumpshot again.

GP even found his on a deep Miami team. Bottom line at the end of that debacle our role players were simply to old to keep up with a young up and coming Pistons team. See the Spurs and Pistons for reference today. Dallas must suck to let them run over them like that last night. Any team with youth will kill the spurs now.
 
ummm shaggy, you said all that (which is hogwash, in and of itself, as if the Lakers other players suddenly aged in the Finals), but the point was about how Billups and Rip ripped kobe. For some reason, you didnt touch that part. You blamed it on Fisher, but don't try to act as if kobe wasn't "trying" to check Billups too.
 
SUtrp96 said:
We are talking about all these giants it took to stop one MAN Shaq..

Let talk about how the Celtics took turns even with the bench to stop Kobe..Even that real old dude... That was so pure comedy watching Kobe junk get smacked around. Watching P.P J him up at will.... Talk about some great T.V. ey TopDog, I betcha 24 ain't have NOTHING on that huh?
Click to expand...

PJ Brown...right??

Assist...


1213330715_6825.jpg


:emlaugh:
 
mighty hornet said:
ummm shaggy, you said all that (which is hogwash, in and of itself, as if the Lakers other players suddenly aged in the Finals), but the point was about how Billups and Rip ripped kobe. For some reason, you didnt touch that part. You blamed it on Fisher, but don't try to act as if kobe wasn't "trying" to check Billups too.
Click to expand...

Dude how old was Malone and GP and Rick Fox and Horry even Fish was showing some signs of wearing down. We were an old team. But It's neither here or there becuase the Lakers won three in a row and will continue to be in title games even minus Kobe. We are that type of Franchise. We just reload.
 
Jax said:
PJ Brown...right??

Assist...


1213330715_6825.jpg


:emlaugh:
Click to expand...

All the way from LOUISSSSIIIIII ANA!!!

Boy that was some good TV huh Jax.. I wonder what GR did after that one right there..

And look at that, that dude is wearing 93.. MJ and Lebron would never let someone wearing number 93 dunk on them like that.. See that's the stuff he be doing that don't make him so great..
 
shawiggi said:
Kobe was tripled teamed in that series. They left everybody else open and they couldn't buy baskets. Robert H, Fisher,Fox all those guys shots were broke by then. Kobe was dayum near playing Detroit by himself. Chauncy was killing Fisher. We had nothing left. Teams had finally figured out how to beat the Lakers. Let Shaq score and shut down kobe. Our role players were sorry then. We had no money because Shaq's contract was too big to sign decent players. Carl Malone was hurt and GP couldn't buy a basket to save his life either. Tayshun Prince length was to much for our Fowards and Guards. Kobe carried all of them cats the entire season.

Then Horry gets to San Antonio where he had Ginobli, Duncan and Parker to take all the pressure off him. Bowens on defense. He rarely played any during the season and discovered his jumpshot again.

GP even found his on a deep Miami team. Bottom line at the end of that debacle our role players were simply to old to keep up with a young up and coming Pistons team. See the Spurs and Pistons for reference today. Dallas must suck to let them run over them like that last night. Any team with youth will kill the spurs now.
Click to expand...


Wow....great points
But Shaw
You are not going to get basketball talk out of any of these people. They dont actually watch basketball or any sports for that matter. They just keep repeating stuff they hear. Dont think for a minute you are going to get good analysis back. All you are going to hear in return is...."oh yeah, but Kobe got dunked on"
 
shawiggi said:
Dude how old was Malone and GP and Rick Fox and Horry even Fish was showing some signs of wearing down.
Click to expand...
ummm I don't know how old any of 'em were, but the Lakers won 56 games during the regular season that year and please don't try to act as if the Pistons were predicted to win that series cause the Lakers were so old.
 
mighty hornet said:
ummm I don't know how old any of 'em were, but the Lakers won 56 games during the regular season that year and please don't try to act as if the Pistons were predicted to win that series cause the Lakers were so old.
Click to expand...

MH, see this the kind of stuff I be talking about.. GR supports these type of weak excuses...
 
mighty hornet said:
ummm I don't know how old any of 'em were, but the Lakers won 56 games during the regular season that year and please don't try to act as if the Pistons were predicted to win that series cause the Lakers were so old.
Click to expand...

56 games were considered a letdown with the HOF talent they were supposed to have. GP and Malone never got into the system and Shaq's lack of help on the pick and roll made "The Glove" look like it had a hole in it.

Minnesota had the top seed in the West that season. Led by KG.
 
SUtrp96 said:
All the way from LOUISSSSIIIIII ANA!!!

Boy that was some good TV huh Jax.. I wonder what GR did after that one right there..

And look at that, that dude is wearing 93.. MJ and Lebron would never let someone wearing number 93 dunk on them like that.. See that's the stuff he be doing that don't make him so great..
Click to expand...

I think 93 was the year he got drafted, and POSTERIZED the "so-called" Great One named Kobe 15 years later....:lmao:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top