Is Kobe Toying with the league


Status
Not open for further replies.
shawiggi said:
LOL don't let those games yesterday fool you. They called the games in the Jazz favor and they still lost. What will happen when the Lakers actually get some calls deeper in the playoffs. Sterns wants Lakers and Cavs and he will get it.
Click to expand...

Too early to tell...yea...but the way thangs is looking in the West, I don't think LA is gonna make it and that has nothing to do with the games last night.

As far as the East goes, Cleveland got that on lock.
 
How you Laker "Kool-aide" drinkers can be lead by a guy that really thinks Jordan was the reason they didn't go 7 in a row...
This dude have yall under more control than David Koresh...

I guess Barkley, Magic and everyone else with since is crazy too right?

O'Neal
YEARS 14
PPG 26.3
RPG 11.8
BPG 2.5
PER 27.8 (Player Efficiency Rating)


Olajuwon
YEARS 18
PPG 21.8
RPG 11.1
BPG 3.1
PER 23.6


I think the numbers prove why I feel Shaq is a bit better than the "Dream"..


This is part of the list I believe Shaq's number 2 hater was looking for:

Henry Abbott, TrueHoop.com (HA)
Greg Anthony, NBA analyst (GA)
Andrew Ayres, ESPN.com NBA editor (AA)
Jon Barry, NBA analyst (JB)
Chris Broussard, ESPN The Magazine (CB)
Ric Bucher, ESPN The Magazine (RB)
John Hollinger, ESPN.com Insider (JH)
Scoop Jackson, ESPN.com Page 2 columnist (SJ)
Tim Legler, NBA analyst (TL)
Jamal Mashburn, NBA analyst (JM)
Jim O'Brien, ESPN.com Insider (JO)
Chris Ramsay, ESPN.com NBA editor (CR)
Jack Ramsay, NBA analyst (JR)
Chris Sheridan, ESPN.com Insider (CS)
Ken Shouler, ESPN.com (KS)
Marc Stein, ESPN.com senior writer (MS)
David Thorpe, Scouts Inc. (DT)
Kiki Vandeweghe, NBA analyst (KV)
Royce Webb, ESPN.com NBA editor (RW)
Jeff Weltman, Scouts Inc. (JW)
 



Dude, all Shaq could do was dunk. He can't even do that now.

Akeem had a much better all-around game than Shaq. More importantly, he was the "go-to" guy in the fourth quarter. Shaq was NEVER a "go-to" guy and never will be.\

Akeem had a far better free throw shooting percentage. Akeem was a far better defensive presence in the lane and has the NBA record in all time blocked shots. He was much quicker than Shaq and could shake Shaq with his drop step moves anytime he pleased. He could run the court like a gazelle and he worked hard, unlike Shaq, during the offseason. He was much more intelligent and basketball savvy than Shaq as well.

Shaq, due to his size, just bowled people over, but he never had any real moves or agility like Akeem. Akeem was perhaps the best all-around center in NBA history and I'm a diehard Kareem fan.
Olajuwon might as well have been created in a lab: perfect height, speed, quickness, power, agility, disposition, shooting ability and footwork.

Oh, and he was a winner. He outplayed Ewing, Robinson and O'Neal to lead Houston to back-to-back titles.
 
JayRob said:
Dude, all Shaq could do was dunk. He can't even do that now.

Akeem had a much better all-around game than Shaq. More importantly, he was the "go-to" guy in the fourth quarter. Shaq was NEVER a "go-to" guy and never will be.\

Akeem had a far better free throw shooting percentage. Akeem was a far better defensive presence in the lane and has the NBA record in all time blocked shots. He was much quicker than Shaq and could shake Shaq with his drop step moves anytime he pleased. He could run the court like a gazelle and he worked hard, unlike Shaq, during the offseason. He was much more intelligent and basketball savvy than Shaq as well.

Shaq, due to his size, just bowled people over, but he never had any real moves or agility like Akeem. Akeem was perhaps the best all-around center in NBA history and I'm a diehard Kareem fan.
Olajuwon might as well have been created in a lab: perfect height, speed, quickness, power, agility, disposition, shooting ability and footwork.

Oh, and he was a winner. He outplayed Ewing, Robinson and O'Neal to lead Houston to back-to-back titles.
Click to expand...


You can talk about how good Hakeem was all you want.. I already know, I grew up watching him.. End of the day SHAQ did more, won more, accomplished more... And have better numbers... That don't happen by accident.. No matter how he did it he did it..

Hakeem looked better making plays than Shaq.. But we all know at the center position all that matters is Block shots, rebounds, scoring in the paint and being dominant.

And did you say Shaq can't dunk any more? Well that did it for me.... You gettin "Drunken Monkey" on me now...
 
I think folks need to look at this in context...

There's no question that Hakeem was the better center in terms of skillset and all around game...He's HOF material for a reason...That being said, Shaq changed the way ENTIRE DEFENSES were structured in order to account for him on the block.

He's been a walking, breathing double-team assignment the moment he laced up some sneakers and walked onto an NBA floor. He still is, to an extent, today (even on the tail end of his career).

More importantly, the guy automatically created extra offensive AND defensive opportunities for others with his MERE PRESENCE on the floor...The only other pro centers in their prime that could honestly do that were Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem, and possibly Bill Russell (Russell was nowhere hear the scoring threat the aforementioned were).

As great as the Dream was (and he was off the charts; Best back to the basket game I've ever seen in terms of footwork and offensive repetoire), He still didn't draw the type of defensive attention that Shaq did, and still does.

Dream's a better individual player, but Shaq impacted the game overall alot more because of his physical talents.
 
crazylegs said:
I think folks need to look at this in context...

There's no question that Hakeem was the better center in terms of skillset and all around game...He's HOF material for a reason...That being said, Shaq changed the way ENTIRE DEFENSES were structured in order to account for him on the block.

He's been a walking, breathing double-team assignment the moment he laced up some sneakers and walked onto an NBA floor. He still is, to an extent, today (even on the tail end of his career).

More importantly, the guy automatically created extra offensive AND defensive opportunities for others with his MERE PRESENCE on the floor...The only other pro centers in their prime that could honestly do that were Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem, and possibly Bill Russell (Russell was nowhere hear the scoring threat the aforementioned were).

As great as the Dream was (and he was off the charts; Best back to the basket game I've ever seen in terms of footwork and offensive repetoire), He still didn't draw the type of defensive attention that Shaq did, and still does.

Dream's a better individual player, but Shaq impacted the game overall alot more because of his physical talents.
Click to expand...

Dude, you coulda shucked all that other stuff and just agree with me by simply saying Hakeem was better. Sheesh!!
 
Being better individually doesn't necessarily mean that you're the more dominant player, Jay...

Dayumn, you still haven't grasped that concept yet??? *lmao* :lol:

Hakeem was the quintessential mobile post with a highly developed finesse game. That being said, he still didn't individually change the way other teams defended them while he was on the floor...Most folks took their chances playing the dream straight up for the majority of the time he was in the league, at least until his face up game developed...At that point, squads would either throw superior size or bulk at him to rough him up, or toss the occasional junk defense or double-team.

Shaq was nowhere near as refined, but he had a bigger overall impact on how the game was played (and more importantly, defended) on the block. YOU COULD NOT play shaq straight up in halfcourt sets or he would kill you. once he developed a small repetoire of pet moves on the block, it was a wrap. You HAD to double him or he was gonna sneeze and get a triple double and foul out all of your post players doing so.

The lakers DON'T win those championships without shaq...period. Shaq collapsed defenses and created isolation opportunities for the perimeter players just by being on the court. EBOK was icing on the cake, as talented as he is.
 
crazylegs said:
I think folks need to look at this in context...

There's no question that Hakeem was the better center in terms of skillset and all around game...He's HOF material for a reason...That being said, Shaq changed the way ENTIRE DEFENSES were structured in order to account for him on the block.

He's been a walking, breathing double-team assignment the moment he laced up some sneakers and walked onto an NBA floor. He still is, to an extent, today (even on the tail end of his career).

More importantly, the guy automatically created extra offensive AND defensive opportunities for others with his MERE PRESENCE on the floor...The only other pro centers in their prime that could honestly do that were Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem, and possibly Bill Russell (Russell was nowhere hear the scoring threat the aforementioned were).

As great as the Dream was (and he was off the charts; Best back to the basket game I've ever seen in terms of footwork and offensive repetoire), He still didn't draw the type of defensive attention that Shaq did, and still does.

Dream's a better individual player, but Shaq impacted the game overall alot more because of his physical talents.
Click to expand...

Uh...Crazy. I think you need to go back and review the tapes, my friend. I'll chalk it up to "out of sight, out of mind". Cuz, I garuantee you coaches had way more of a hard time game planing for Hakeem than you're giving him credit for, right now.

Coaches used to tear their hair out trying to figure out how to shut down Hakeem. He came in the league averging 20.6. Once Hakeem found his shooting touch, he was also an automatic double-team.

I can argue that Shaq was dominant due to girth and the ability to get away with ALOT of shady footwork (also known as traveling). Got the job done? Sure. But, ain't hardly had the all around game Hakeem had.

Defensively..."Yes"...they both have the ability to gaurd the rim. But, Hakeem still leads the NBA in Blocks by a LARGE margin. Not to mention he was always at the top of the league in steals.


Another bonus for Hakeem....

If the game was on the line, literally and figuratively, who are you sending to the FT Line?



Bruh...Hakeem held isht down offensively AND defensively.
 
Last edited:
O'Bladerunner said:
Uh...Crazy. I think you need to go back and review the tapes, my friend. I'll chalk it up to "out of sight, out of mind". Cuz, I garuantee you coaches had way more of a hard time game planing for Hakeem than you're giving him credit for, right now.

Coaches used to tear their hair out trying to figure out how to shut down Hakeem. He came in the league averging 20.6. Once Hakeem found his shooting touch, he was also an automatic double-team.

I can argue that Shaq was dominant due to girth and the ability to get away with ALOT of shady footwork (also known as traveling). Got the job done? Sure. But, ain't hardly had the all around game Hakeem had.

Defensively..."Yes"...they both have the ability to gaurd the rim. But, Hakeem still leads the NBA in Blocks by a LARGE margin. Not to mention he was always at the top of the league in steals.


Another bonus for Hakeem....

If the game was on the line, literally and figuratively, who are you sending to the FT Line?



Bruh...Hakeem held isht down offensively AND defensively.
Click to expand...

I'd send Shaq.:lol::lol:
 
crazylegs said:
being better individually doesn't necessarily mean that you're the more dominant player, jay...

Dayumn, you still haven't grasped that concept yet??? *lmao* :lol:

Hakeem was the quintessential mobile post with a highly developed finesse game. That being said, he still didn't individually change the way other teams defended them while he was on the floor...most folks took their chances playing the dream straight up for the majority of the time he was in the league, at least until his face up game developed...at that point, squads would either throw superior size or bulk at him to rough him up, or toss the occasional junk defense or double-team.

Shaq was nowhere near as refined, but he had a bigger overall impact on how the game was played (and more importantly, defended) on the block. You could not play shaq straight up in halfcourt sets or he would kill you. Once he developed a small repetoire of pet moves on the block, it was a wrap. You had to double him or he was gonna sneeze and get a triple double and foul out all of your post players doing so.

The lakers don't win those championships without shaq...period. Shaq collapsed defenses and created isolation opportunities for the perimeter players just by being on the court. Ebok was icing on the cake, as talented as he is.
Click to expand...

preach brotha!!!!!!

And will someone tell the lil _AYrob dude he ain't funny
 
Last edited:



crazylegs said:
Being better individually doesn't necessarily mean that you're the more dominant player, Jay...

Dayumn, you still haven't grasped that concept yet??? *lmao* :lol:

Hakeem was the quintessential mobile post with a highly developed finesse game. That being said, he still didn't individually change the way other teams defended them while he was on the floor...Most folks took their chances playing the dream straight up for the majority of the time he was in the league, at least until his face up game developed...At that point, squads would either throw superior size or bulk at him to rough him up, or toss the occasional junk defense or double-team.

Shaq was nowhere near as refined, but he had a bigger overall impact on how the game was played (and more importantly, defended) on the block. YOU COULD NOT play shaq straight up in halfcourt sets or he would kill you. once he developed a small repetoire of pet moves on the block, it was a wrap. You HAD to double him or he was gonna sneeze and get a triple double and foul out all of your post players doing so.

The lakers DON'T win those championships without shaq...period. Shaq collapsed defenses and created isolation opportunities for the perimeter players just by being on the court. EBOK was icing on the cake, as talented as he is.
Click to expand...

Why do you think Robert Horry, Derek Fisher and Co. were able to hit so many big three point shots in the Finals? The D would collapse on Shaq which meant there were open guys all over the floor.
 
SUtrp96 said:
a-m-e-n
Click to expand...

When Phil Jackson was coaching the Bulls against Orlando in the playoffs he was like screw it. I am not going to let Nick Anderson and Dennis Scott stand out by the three-point line and shoot open jumpers while we double team Shaq.

Let him get his 30 points against Luc Longley, but Mike, Harper and Scottie will just shut down the wing players. The Bulls swept the Magic in the 1996 Eastern Conference Finals. But no other coach used that game planning when Shaq went to L.A.
 
Blade,

Hakeem didn't get that way overnight...When he got to the league from U of H, his ball skills were pretty raw. He didn't get to that plateau that we're used to seeing him at until he was in the league quite some time.

When he honed his offensive game, alot of squads had to double him. Nobody's denying that. What I'm saying is that Shaq was like that from the moment he set foot on an NBA floor because of the physical gifts he had. Nobody's denying that the Dream and a more polished skillset...Shaq simply didn't need to be that polished with the physical tools he had.

Both were great defensive players (Hakeem having the better defensive instincts), but Shaq effectively canceled out any opposing offensive rebounding opportunities for the majority of opposing squads in the league.

it drove coaches crazy game planning against Hakeem, but he did have trouble against defenders that physical, or could muscle him off of the block and get him out of that comfort zone. He wouldn't have developed the mid-range game he did without that pressure. Shaq, on the other hand, could simply out-muscle anybody in the league (still can to an extent) and get to the rim whenever he wanted to.

Defensively, you just couldn't gameplan for Shaq, save fouling him...Even now, you can't throw zones at him because he's develped as a passer enough to keep defenses honest (another reason why he was so effective in the triangle offense in LA). Manning him up is futile, much like it was with Hakeem, albeit for completely different reasons.

no doubt, the dream was a way better offensive player in terms of raw technial basketball ability, but some NBA centers just have physical gifts that you can't teach. Despite some of his shortcomings, shaq is one of those rare 5's that you can't match-up with one on one without putting extreme pressure on your entire defense.
 
kendrick said:
When Phil Jackson was coaching the Bulls against Orlando in the playoffs he was like screw it. I am not going to let Nick Anderson and Dennis Scott stand out by the three-point line and shoot open jumpers while we double team Shaq.

Let him get his 30 points against Luc Longley, but Mike, Harper and Scottie will just shut down the wing players. The Bulls swept the Magic in the 1996 Eastern Conference Finals. But no other coach used that game planning when Shaq went to L.A.
Click to expand...

That's true...

the only problem with that is that Orlando squad, for all fo the firepower they had, still didn't have one presence that could create things off of the dribble and create opportunities when things broke down in the halfcourt. If Orlando had that 3rd element in that offense, the outcome in the eastern finals could've been alot different.
 
crazylegs said:
That's true...

the only problem with that is that Orlando squad, for all fo the firepower they had, still didn't have one presence that could create things off of the dribble and create opportunities when things broke down in the halfcourt. If Orlando had that 3rd element in that offense, the outcome in the eastern finals could've been alot different.
Click to expand...

Penny was solid player back then, but he played off Shaq a lot. Kobe could create his own shot.
 
kendrick said:
When Phil Jackson was coaching the Bulls against Orlando in the playoffs he was like screw it. I am not going to let Nick Anderson and Dennis Scott stand out by the three-point line and shoot open jumpers while we double team Shaq.

Let him get his 30 points against Luc Longley, but Mike, Harper and Scottie will just shut down the wing players. The Bulls swept the Magic in the 1996 Eastern Conference Finals. But no other coach used that game planning when Shaq went to L.A.
Click to expand...

Some how you forget how they also had to double Kobe which left those other three guys wide open as well. The Pistons proved that you could let Shaq have his way and guard Kobe and you would beat the Lakers. But it's still funny how you guys have all these excuses for other players and teams but continue to discredit Kobe's contribution to the Lakers. I'm not worried about LA but you guys are trying your best to prove to us that Kobe sucks.

And another thing Shaq was a liability in Miami. The heat had already made strides to make it to the final with Odom and Butler they pushed the pistons two years in a row. When Shaq arrived they also picked up Payton and Posey which gave them quality PG play and a peremiter defender who could guard hamilton. Shaq was humbled in that Finals. No MVP cause it was the Wad show and Wade rules in that series.
 
shawiggi said:
Some how you forget how they also had to double Kobe which left those other three guys wide open as well. The Pistons proved that you could let Shaq have his way and guard Kobe and you would beat the Lakers. But it's still funny how you guys have all these excuses for other players and teams but continue to discredit Kobe's contribution to the Lakers. I'm not worried about LA but you guys are trying your best to prove to us that Kobe sucks.

And another thing Shaq was a liability in Miami. The heat had already made strides to make it to the final with Odom and Butler they pushed the pistons two years in a row. When Shaq arrived they also picked up Payton and Posey which gave them quality PG play and a peremiter defender who could guard hamilton. Shaq was humbled in that Finals. No MVP cause it was the Wad show and Wade rules in that series.
Click to expand...

See, I am not trying to discredit Kobe. GR and JayRob are calling Shaq a role player when it is clear he was not with L.A. Without Shaq the Lakers don't win a title.
 
shawiggi said:
Some how you forget how they also had to double Kobe which left those other three guys wide open as well. The Pistons proved that you could let Shaq have his way and guard Kobe and you would beat the Lakers. But it's still funny how you guys have all these excuses for other players and teams but continue to discredit Kobe's contribution to the Lakers. I'm not worried about LA but you guys are trying your best to prove to us that Kobe sucks.

And another thing Shaq was a liability in Miami. The heat had already made strides to make it to the final with Odom and Butler they pushed the pistons two years in a row. When Shaq arrived they also picked up Payton and Posey which gave them quality PG play and a peremiter defender who could guard hamilton. Shaq was humbled in that Finals. No MVP cause it was the Wad show and Wade rules in that series.
Click to expand...

Chu'ch
 
kendrick said:
See, I am not trying to discredit Kobe. GR and JayRob are calling Shaq a role player when it is clear he was not with L.A. Without Shaq the Lakers don't win a title.
Click to expand...

Kendrick, GR exaggerated when he says that Shaq was only a role player. Shaq was a very important part of those teams. But what folks dont realize is (because they have been programmed by the talk shows they repeat) the west geared up to nuetralize Shaq. Look at the big men in the west at that time -- Portland, Sac, San An, Utah. They all had TWO big guys to waste fouls on Shaq.

The person they couldnt stop was Kobe. Kobe is the one that lifted the Lakers over the powers in the West (the dominant league). If you look at the big men of the other team, their point performance was just as good as Shaqs collectively. Either that or their PG had a bunch of points cause all they had to do is run the pick and roll on Shaq. Hell thats why Mike Bibby is a multimillionaire now.

Once the Lakers got to the Finals, who was their in the East to challenge Shaq? Who did Philly, Indy, or NJ have? No one....so it was too easy to run the ball into Shaq and let him win the MVPs. But hte MVPs of the western conference finals (the real championship) was Kobe. Dont you remember him slamming and dunking all over Duncan and Robinson?

I told you guys LAST year that Shaq wasnt schit. This was before the season started with Miami. The guy can not lead a team. Miami was the worst team in year with him....and now he has even messed up the Suns who have 3 AllStars and a 6th man candidate. Just look at the facts....its really hard to deny that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top