bluedog
"Leader of Kings"
seriously dude you just need to learn to keep your mouth shut because you have no credibility whatsoever on any topic
FCS Runner-Up (Towson State) Lost Money in the Playoffs
- Thread starter C-LeB28
- Start date
seriously dude you just need to learn to keep your mouth shut because you have no credibility whatsoever on any topic
JayRob
TigaPaw
People lie but numbers don't. Stump went something like 5-13 didn't he and how much was he being paid per year? Thank you.
bluedog
"Leader of Kings"
Dude you got ADT or sumthin huh? Obviously it's just really impossible for you to follow a subject.
Tigerpride
THE Logical ONE
Tigerpride
THE Logical ONE
BUT the difference there is that the big schools PLAN not to make a profit. They use their bowl payout money as party money and a "Thank You" to major donors by throwing huge parties and covering room, board and transportation for family, friends, supporters, etc... Bowls are not intended to make money. And I am sure that during these "free" celebrations, donors are steadily writing checks.
I am sure Towson wanted to make some $$$. However, I still don't see why $50K is something to fuss about when they may have made up for it in many ways. The more important number is how financially successful was their ENTIRE season compared to past seasons. If they made $500K in profit last year bu $1M in profit this year, that $50K is a meaningless number.
It maybe that some schools, the ones with the biggest budgets, feel that way, but there is concern with a lot of schools.
Those rich donors had better write a lot of checks.
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Bowl Championship Series bowl trips costly for colleges
by Craig Harris - Sept. 27, 2011 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic
.....
"That is the nature of conference membership," said Bill Hancock, BCS executive director. "If you have a downtime and you are in a conference, you have an insurance policy. You can reap the benefits of teams having an uptime. It all goes in a cycle."
But schools that lose money have complained about the issue, saying while more payouts may come in later years, that doesn't solve the problem of balancing their books for the year of the game.
"You cut other expenses or go to the (university) president and say, 'We need help,' " said Mike Enright, a spokesman for the University of Connecticut. "You have to scramble."
Some schools lose money in the short term because of how much they spend on travel and because of requirements set by the BCS.
One of the biggest costs is tickets. Schools that qualify for a bowl game are required, by contract, to buy thousands of game tickets, helping the bowls generate revenue and market their games while creating an incentive for schools to fill seats. The tickets can then be resold to students, alumni and fans. But frequently, schools are unable to resell all of the tickets.
Some schools also must travel long distances to reach the games.
Once they arrive, they stay in lodging preselected by the bowls. Under the contracts that create the championship system, bowl organizers arrange the lodging, and the teams pay. No school can negotiate its own lodging costs.
For example, Ohio State University was required to take 150 rooms for at least six nights and pay at least $172 a night per room for its team and coaches to stay in the New Orleans Marriott during this past season's Sugar Bowl. The lodging cost at other bowls sometimes exceeds $300 a night.
.....
BlueBengal07
Well-Known Member
ok,
-not budgeting in post-season action early on can hurt.
-hosting a playoff game can hurt.
-travels to playoff games across the states and can hurt.
But NCAA does support a team's playoff travel expense, but Towson State chose to bring more people than covered by NCAA; "The lump sum given by the NCAA to schools traveling for playoff games only covers about 70 players and the team’s coaches, plus the hotel, food and travel to and from the stadium, according to Leonard. But Towson ended up bringing more people along on the trip...There were things we added to the experience to make sure all of our kids, the football student athletes, all of them went…we brought anyone else who was hurt. If they were part of the team, we were taking them,” Leonard said. “The coaches’ families were there. We wanted to make sure anyone who deserved to be there was there.”
This sound more like a fault of Towson than a risk to joining the playoffs. Towson just choice to sacrifice their budget to give everyone the playoffs experience.
-not budgeting in post-season action early on can hurt.
-hosting a playoff game can hurt.
-travels to playoff games across the states and can hurt.
But NCAA does support a team's playoff travel expense, but Towson State chose to bring more people than covered by NCAA; "The lump sum given by the NCAA to schools traveling for playoff games only covers about 70 players and the team’s coaches, plus the hotel, food and travel to and from the stadium, according to Leonard. But Towson ended up bringing more people along on the trip...There were things we added to the experience to make sure all of our kids, the football student athletes, all of them went…we brought anyone else who was hurt. If they were part of the team, we were taking them,” Leonard said. “The coaches’ families were there. We wanted to make sure anyone who deserved to be there was there.”
This sound more like a fault of Towson than a risk to joining the playoffs. Towson just choice to sacrifice their budget to give everyone the playoffs experience.
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MikeBigg
Well-Known Member
I agree! Folk get mad at me, but I really think our coaches are afraid to go against these folk... I hope our new staff isn't opposed to playing other FCS programs home and home.
BlueBengal07
Well-Known Member
here is NCAA policy is supporting post season travel
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2013-14+D1+champs+trav+policies.pdf
I-AA Football
Prelim Rounds
party size = 130
team size = 60
per diem rate = $130
ground transportation = 4 buses
I-AA Football
Final Round
part size = 145
team size = 60
per diem rate $130
ground transportation = 4 buses
however, NCAA will not cover local transportation; to/from hotel and practice field, unless the hotel is more than 25 miles from the airport, it is then supported.
airfare is covered if the destination is more than 25 miles away.
Towson chose to over-exceed that to the level they did.
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2013-14+D1+champs+trav+policies.pdf
I-AA Football
Prelim Rounds
party size = 130
team size = 60
per diem rate = $130
ground transportation = 4 buses
I-AA Football
Final Round
part size = 145
team size = 60
per diem rate $130
ground transportation = 4 buses
however, NCAA will not cover local transportation; to/from hotel and practice field, unless the hotel is more than 25 miles from the airport, it is then supported.
airfare is covered if the destination is more than 25 miles away.
Towson chose to over-exceed that to the level they did.
Tigerpride
THE Logical ONE
Sports got cut over $50K?
uuuuum ok (Note: I didn't read any news articles so I know nothing of any real details.. :lol: )
Tigerpride
THE Logical ONE
I don't think it's really being afraid. Right now college athletics is about MONEY. Most times when we had 7 games conference schedules, most of the SWAC schools could not fill them out becasue they spent 90% of the time looking for "money games".. and games vs Southland, SoCo, OVC, etc.. schools are always going to lose out if a "money game" comes along. The solution is to end these payout games and that way you will force more 1-AA teams to play each other again.
As long as Grambling can play Oklahoma, they are going to look to NW State second. The NCAA needs to take this stance however because if the SWAC chose not to take money games but other conferences did, we would be at an even bigger financial disadvantage.
MikeBigg
Well-Known Member
Okay...that sounds logical. I smell fear!
No... sports got cut the last few years. I'm just saying Towson athletes whose sports got cut to save money will probably feel slighted when reading this. They won't understand that $50K wouldn't have saved their sport.
C-LeB28
Moderator
Not always true!
I need to find it but the 2012 and 2013 NCAA FCS Runner Up (Sam Houston State Bearkats) actually did NOT have an increase in attendance. You would think they would have but surprisingly their fan base and students didn't step up to the plate.
Theior attendance dropped by over 1K/game in 2013.
TexasTerror
Well-Known Member
Towson may have lost $50k... but how much $$$ worth of additional exposure (yes, it is soft money) did they get from the three hour 'commercials' that came with having games on ESPN and ESPN2?
I still think the 'soft money' (untraceable benefits in exposure, application increases, enrollment increases + net student athletic fee gain, donor gifts related to athletics) outweigh the 'hard money' when you are just talking something like $50k. Isn't part of the reason we all have athletic programs the connection to alumni? The exposure our Universities get (sorry, sTu baseball gets more pub than the biology department at the school!) and the list goes on? I'd say so! I've seen multiple Presidents reference having football programs and/or athletic programs at the Division I level for that.
SHSU did not see significant (if any) attendance increases during the postseason runs, but again - how were applications impacted by two, three games on ESPN/ESPN2 each year during the run? The year SHSU made the NCAA tournament in basketball for the first time (2003), the University experienced its highest attended 'Saturday at Sam' in school history two weeks later. That's an event for prospective students. Was there a correlation? The President thought so.
There's a benefit to having athletics... there's a benefit to additional national exposure...
BTW... do you realize athletic departments typically lose money when they send their baseball, softball, tennis or whatever teams into the postseason? You guys mentioned FBS schools losing money left and right (more times than not, even when BCS games involved), but it happens across the board. The NCAA does not cover the full check that Universities end up spending. And yet, all 350+ Div I schools still keep the current system in place. Go figure!
I still think the 'soft money' (untraceable benefits in exposure, application increases, enrollment increases + net student athletic fee gain, donor gifts related to athletics) outweigh the 'hard money' when you are just talking something like $50k. Isn't part of the reason we all have athletic programs the connection to alumni? The exposure our Universities get (sorry, sTu baseball gets more pub than the biology department at the school!) and the list goes on? I'd say so! I've seen multiple Presidents reference having football programs and/or athletic programs at the Division I level for that.
SHSU did not see significant (if any) attendance increases during the postseason runs, but again - how were applications impacted by two, three games on ESPN/ESPN2 each year during the run? The year SHSU made the NCAA tournament in basketball for the first time (2003), the University experienced its highest attended 'Saturday at Sam' in school history two weeks later. That's an event for prospective students. Was there a correlation? The President thought so.
There's a benefit to having athletics... there's a benefit to additional national exposure...
BTW... do you realize athletic departments typically lose money when they send their baseball, softball, tennis or whatever teams into the postseason? You guys mentioned FBS schools losing money left and right (more times than not, even when BCS games involved), but it happens across the board. The NCAA does not cover the full check that Universities end up spending. And yet, all 350+ Div I schools still keep the current system in place. Go figure!
C-LeB28
Moderator
Too bad back to back national championship appearances didn't translate into championship type home game average attendance in 2013...
Bowers Stadium (14,000 capacity)
Sam Houston Houston Baptist 9,246
Sam Houston Texas Southern 6,403
Sam Houston Incarnate Word 5,789
Sam Houston Eastern Wash 8,621
Sam Houston Lamar 9,156
Sam Houston Northwestern St 5,527
Sam Houston Nicholls St 7,507
Average 7,464
TexasTerror
Well-Known Member
The current President did acknowledge an increase in interest following the playoff run and in a conversation, specifically referenced change(s) to the 'Battle of the Piney Woods' game contract that came as it relates to significantly increased interest by the Houston alumni base to be more supportive of SHSU football at the contest. The game is more financially lucrative now for the SHSU program because of how our alumni have come out to support it, which the President attributes to recent success/exposure of the program. Same goes for new records in alumni giving, alumni participation, etc.
Whether those people make it to Huntsville for football games, that's a whole different issue - regardless of how short the drive is! Do like increased exposure in Houston now that SHSU/SFA grows annually and that SHSU is playing in Astros Baseball Classic at Minute Maid Park.
So basically the game you play in Houston is the reason your alums are more involved (in that game), thus creating more visibility in Houston (largest city in Texas), and possibly promoting an uptick in interest from potential applicants.
Nothing you said there is in relation to the playoff runs.
In_The_662
Deeeeep In The Delta.....
Good point. Didn't Southern see an increase in applications after their appearance in the Big Dance last year? That's a direct correlation when it comes to visibility and how it affects the school (financially).
I want to see how this affects schools who have made deep runs into the FCS playoffs recently. We've seen the reports of schools like James Madison, Montana and now Towson losing money (also must factor most of these schools are 2-3 times bigger than most HBCU's)
Anonymous
Active Member
There are a lot of truths to the "soft money" argument... Also you really have to look at those schools who are competitive in the playoffs and the recruits, and yes black student-athletes, that go to these schools... Can't keep up the why are they going to "those" schools argument if a kids wants to play for a national title, and our schools (SWAC) don't... It is also pertinent in why some coaches (black coaches), especially the younger ones, tend to want to go to schools that play for that title... I understand your money argument, but don't dismiss what playing in the playoff system can/does for a program overall. My two cents...