Why Not Us?


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Do Any one even see a present SWAC team or Coach that may be able to push to the next Level? The Only team or Coach I see is TxSU but that only if they can keep 2 or 3 of those Coaches long enough to Finish Building.. The Rest of our Coaches seems to be Cool with winning SWAC games.. After attending and Watching the SWAC Tournament, to Duer Sharp and the SWAC Coaches, the SWAC championship is there National Championship and Big Stage...
 
Again why cant we get better Players if other small schools can?

Murray State
Butler
Northern Iowa
Cornell
where are they located-so called basketball hotbeds. So whatever the big boys don't get they can pick over. Kentucky gets the one and dones squad-Murray State sneaks in and gets four years and done guys.

I've seen too many players from our universities show only marginal improvement from their freshman year to their senior year.

As one sports writer in Dallas suggested SMU & TCU need to start doing-REVOKING SOME SCHOLARSHIPS.

The MEAC has ONE team that did something THIS year

Really? Look at the entire conference
OOC wins as a whole
Arkansas Ranking 159
Albany
Manhatten
Townsen
East Tenn State 121 & made the tourney
UMBC
Long Island 240
Longwood 286
Texas Pan American only Coppin State ranked lower than them
Florida Gulf Coast
Delaware
Georgia State 248
WYOMING rank 202
Monmouth
Fordham
Navy (Howard & Maryland Eastern SHore)
American
Maine
Middle Tenn
High Point
Furman

The American East & Big South were the MEAC's female dogs this year

Every team defeated at least 1 D1 PWC team. Even the bad MEAC teams.

The SWAC?
Eastern Washington (Jackson State)
Northwestern State (Grambling)
New Orleans (Southern)
Idaho (Tx Southern)
Florida Gulf Coast (PV)
Southeastern LA (Tx Southern)

So 5 teams were able to beat PWC?
1 counting for 2 wins
1 didn't make the SWAC tourney
3 had winning records

Why Winthrop was dumped in that play in game? The highest ranked teams the conference beat? Citidal & George Mason. 15% of the team they beat were the same ones the MEAC abused.

Other 16 seeds-
Leigh-also beat up on teams that the MEAC played. Biggest win? Marist or St. Francis

Vermont-Rutgers??? Because they played 10 teams that made the big dance, 6 teams in the NIT and one in the CBI.

East Tenn State-Arkansas & College of Charleston

The MEAC found schools that they could beat.
They went after smaller conferences got some wins and some of those teams turned out to be the big dog of those small conferences.

:topic:
HOW DID NORTH TEXAS GET A 15TH SEED? Their biggest nonconference win was Jackson State.
 



The MEAC found schools that they could beat.
They went after smaller conferences got some wins and some of those teams turned out to be the big dog of those small conferences.

:topic:
HOW DID NORTH TEXAS GET A 15TH SEED? Their biggest nonconference win was Jackson State.

Bingo! If you want to try and fund the entire athletic dept by playing money games you're going to have problems. Your fans will see you as losers. Recruits will see you as losers, and the ncaa will see you as losers. That's where we are largely. We've got to play some home and homes with schools we've got a shot to beat. You can play two or three power conference schools.....not 12! Lets get longwood on the schedule, NJIT, florida gulfcoast, hey....even some meac schools! one year bama state didn't end up in the play in game b/c they'd already beaten famu who they would've faced again.

If you play a reasonable schedule, you can build a program (recruits and fans). You can let your fans support the program through season tickets if they believe you're a decent ball club. But when you show up to you're home arena and your 0 - forever, nobody wants to see what you've got to show( that said to pinebluffs credit, they averaged over 4,000 a game and led the swac in home attendance).
 
The problem is we sell out for the money games. Money games hurt conference perception, conference & team RPI, and probably the individual team's psychology.

If we want to compete with the Murray State's, Butler's and Northern Iowa's, we need to limit ourselves to 3 or less money games per school. We need to start scheduling some of the other mid-majors, which will hurt at first, but in the end will build both the conference and the individual programs. When we start beating other mid-majors consistently and knocking-off a BCS-conference school every now and again, we will build respect. The only problem is it takes time... and that's the bitter pill nobody wants to swallow. It will take 5-10 years, but it can happen. Individual schools and teams must commit to the long haul and not just wait for a quick fix.

Look at the Missouri Valley a mid-major conference that had 4 selections in 2007 and now has Northern Iowa in the Sweet 16.

See at UNI's Out of Conference Schedule:
November 13 at Denver W 71-65 1-0
November 20 vs. DePaul* L 60-52 1-1
November 21 East Carolina W 74-68 2-1
November 23 vs. Boston College* W 81-69 3-1
November 28 Northern Illinois W 52-45 4-1
December 2 at Iowa State W 63-60 5-1
December 8 Iowa W 67-50 6-1

December 12 Siena W 82-65 7-1
December 19 at North Dakota W 64-41 8-1
December 23 Wyoming W 72-54 9-1
February 19 Old Dominion W 71-62 24-3

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/schedule?teamId=2460

They only played 4 BCS Conference Schools, but all of them are lower tier in their conference, and they were not all money games they played Iowa at home. We need to play the SEC and ACC and Big-12, but look for games we might possibly win.

Also they played other up-and-coming mid majors: Sienna and Old Dominion are both tournament teams, which made them somewhat battle tested by facing other potential double-digit seeds. And they also weren't afraid of scheduling non-conference games during the season. That ODU game, gave them a real good indication of where they stood outside the conference.

Finally, the other 5 games were all against regular, run-of-the-mill D-I teams. They had confidence because they were facing consistent talent week-in and week-out. Ain't no D-II games bunched in there nowhere. We mess our kids up by having them whoop some D-II, puffing their head up and then getting knocked down in these guarantee games. And if they like A&M and lose to D-II schools, then they pretty much can throw the towel in on the whole season.

For SWAC schools to improve they need to do the following:

1) Schedule only 1 or 2 Guarantee games
2) Schedule lower tier schools from BCS conferences as home and home or be creative with a 1-home/2-away arrangement
3) Schedule no more than 1 D-II exhibition game
4) Schedule other mid-majors and finally
5) Make the most of opportunities by going home with a "W" in some of these winnable games

:lecture: One more thing... when we start beating other mid-majors it will also help solve another problem... ATTENDANCE!!! I don't care what conference records are or how many money games you accept. A 7-3 team will garner more fan support than a 0-10 team everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.
 
The problem is we sell out for the money games. Money games hurt conference perception, conference & team RPI, and probably the individual team's psychology.

If we want to compete with the Murray State's, Butler's and Northern Iowa's, we need to limit ourselves to 3 or less money games per school. We need to start scheduling some of the other mid-majors, which will hurt at first, but in the end will build both the conference and the individual programs. When we start beating other mid-majors consistently and knocking-off a BCS-conference school every now and again, we will build respect. The only problem is it takes time... and that's the bitter pill nobody wants to swallow. It will take 5-10 years, but it can happen. Individual schools and teams must commit to the long haul and not just wait for a quick fix.

Look at the Missouri Valley a mid-major conference that had 4 selections in 2007 and now has Northern Iowa in the Sweet 16.

See at UNI's Out of Conference Schedule:


They only played 4 BCS Conference Schools, but all of them are lower tier in their conference, and they were not all money games they played Iowa at home. We need to play the SEC and ACC and Big-12, but look for games we might possibly win.

Also they played other up-and-coming mid majors: Sienna and Old Dominion are both tournament teams, which made them somewhat battle tested by facing other potential double-digit seeds. And they also weren't afraid of scheduling non-conference games during the season. That ODU game, gave them a real good indication of where they stood outside the conference.

Finally, the other 5 games were all against regular, run-of-the-mill D-I teams. They had confidence because they were facing consistent talent week-in and week-out. Ain't no D-II games bunched in there nowhere. We mess our kids up by having them whoop some D-II, puffing their head up and then getting knocked down in these guarantee games. And if they like A&M and lose to D-II schools, then they pretty much can throw the towel in on the whole season.

For SWAC schools to improve they need to do the following:

1) Schedule only 1 or 2 Guarantee games
2) Schedule lower tier schools from BCS conferences as home and home or be creative with a 1-home/2-away arrangement
3) Schedule no more than 1 D-II exhibition game
4) Schedule other mid-majors and finally
5) Make the most of opportunities by going home with a "W" in some of these winnable games

:lecture: One more thing... when we start beating other mid-majors it will also help solve another problem... ATTENDANCE!!! I don't care what conference records are or how many money games you accept. A 7-3 team will garner more fan support than a 0-10 team everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

Although there is not a single philosophy that garners immediate winning, I agree with the points you presented.
 
Our Coaches Have to Learn something From playing all these money games... Take Pb they have played 12 money games for the last 3 years it seems like, yet being honest and keepin it 100, they aint learned a Dang thing from them azz whoppin.. If didnt work the last 22 games against Duke like school, what would make anybody, Player or Coach believe that it would work Friday. Any that goes for all of our Teams.. Maybe next year our coaches will take someting from them azzwhippin we keep signing up for..
 
Although there is not a single philosophy that garners immediate winning, I agree with the points you presented.

I appreciate that... and that's just the thing our ADs and Commissioner needs to realize. It took us 10-15 years to dig ourselves into this hole where we get pimped by the guarantee games and it's gonna take another decade to recover as a conference if we have any realistic hope of returning back to national respectability.
 
In the book Forty Million Dollar Slaves, William Rhoden tells the story about how Chris Webber and The Fab Five nearly changed modern HBCU athletics forever:

Webber criticized black colleges for not having built better facilities, not having put themselves in a position of leverage during the time when they had the monopoly on black athletes, to acquire the things that would make them more attractive to blue-chip black athletes: better facilities, larger arenas, more up to date training facilities and television contracts.

"A lot of people put pressure on me (to go to an HBCU), like, 'Come on, Chris, you can change it around, you can change it around.' But I think the process has to start within the black colleges."


"Playing on BET is not good enough for me," he said. "Just like me playing on MTV is not good enough. I want the world to see. In a way I feel guilty because we could have changed that rhyme. But we had to do what was best for us at the time. But we (The Fab Five) talked a lot about going to black colleges."
 
It always made me wonder where did all that money that was being made go back in the 70s from our Programs... We have nothing to show from our sucess during the Time.. I say that^^^ but to be honest.. I know, it went to the personal advancement.. Nothing to build the programs.. Our Coaches believed that High School Coaches would cont. to send their kids to our schools but our Coaches didnt understand that the lil Rock 9 was expanding across the Country meaning that more and more to all most all of the student athletes that they Counted on to be handed to them would not exist anymore... these High School athletes started to be Coached by White Coaches, White Coaches that had the good of their universities at heart, not Ours... So while we had the best our schools, Coaches did nothing to to adapt to the Challenges ahead. And till this day our schools with the exception of a few have done what it takes to get the top tier student or the Top teir Athlete..
All that leads to our basketball teams, our coaches and schools refuse to adapt to whats going on.. Our Coaches arent breaking Film down everynight, our Coaches are hitting the Road to the AAU basketball tournaments, our Coaches arent going to look at 10th and 11th Graders, they going, if they go, to find a 12th grader that no one else in the nation wants.... But why Cant our Coaches Pick up a kid or two to build the Program on? why cant we find a kid that can 1. have a Basketball IQ over 3, 2. A kid that can shoot at least 45% (I think most of our players are in the 30s and 20, at Grambling we might be in the 15% area)?
 
It always made me wonder where did all that money that was being made go back in the 70s from our Programs... We have nothing to show from our sucess during the Time.. I say that^^^ but to be honest.. I know, it went to the personal advancement.. Nothing to build the programs.. Our Coaches believed that High School Coaches would cont. to send their kids to our schools but our Coaches didnt understand that the lil Rock 9 was expanding across the Country meaning that more and more to all most all of the student athletes that they Counted on to be handed to them would not exist anymore... these High School athletes started to be Coached by White Coaches, White Coaches that had the good of their universities at heart, not Ours... So while we had the best our schools, Coaches did nothing to to adapt to the Challenges ahead. And till this day our schools with the exception of a few have done what it takes to get the top tier student or the Top teir Athlete..
All that leads to our basketball teams, our coaches and schools refuse to adapt to whats going on.. Our Coaches arent breaking Film down everynight, our Coaches are hitting the Road to the AAU basketball tournaments, our Coaches arent going to look at 10th and 11th Graders, they going, if they go, to find a 12th grader that no one else in the nation wants.... But why Cant our Coaches Pick up a kid or two to build the Program on? why cant we find a kid that can 1. have a Basketball IQ over 3, 2. A kid that can shoot at least 45% (I think most of our players are in the 30s and 20, at Grambling we might be in the 15% area)?

One thing that I have seen from the PWC that recruited kids at my old schools was that they sent MEDIA GUIDES to the coaches to let the kids see (and school staff to loot afterwards).

Baylor
Arizona State (the player they got is now at North Texas)
TCU
Notre Dame
Cinn Bearcats
South Carolina (the player they got might enter the NFL draft)
Witcha State (got a player)
Nevada (got one)
University of Louisana
Texas Tech
Ok State
Miami
Clemson
SMU (before they got banned):lol:

I didn't see a single HBCU despite 75% of the black staff came from HBCUs. In fact the only kids going to HBCU were guys going to PV to be in the band.

It's not just white coaches turning them away it's us as well. Look at who your entire coaching staff features now.
How many are from HBCUs?
How many are teachers that graduated from a HBCU?
How many are office staff? They didn't attend a college? I know a school whose coaches are the adminstrative assistant, Teacher Aide and janitor. Only one of those jobs requires a degree.

You want that pipeline back you have to get more HBCU grads into the schools. Issue is the schools with the guys you want are the HARDEST to get into because staff turnover doesn't happen often.
 
PV recruits the metroplex well as most of the team comes from there...where are you at?

Trust me..the AAU coaches have alot to say on where a kid goes
 
Maybe our coaches need to get mentored by some of our schools' band directors about recruiting and getting your program's name out in the public. Our bands manage to get talented musicians from all over the country, so I am sure it is very possible for our sports teams to do the same.
 
Maybe our coaches need to get mentored by some of our schools' band directors about recruiting and getting your program's name out in the public. Our bands manage to get talented musicians from all over the country, so I am sure it is very possible for our sports teams to do the same.

You can't compare assembling band members to recruiting athletes at the D1 level. That's like comparing Aretha Franklin to Zoe Saldana.
 
All speaking on removing the money games need to stop w/ that foolish talk. Those $$$ supports YOUR basketball program and is part of the budget. For those of you thinking your bball program is some self-supporting athletic entity and your athletic dept is in the green w/ a MAJOR surplus, you're very foolish in your thinking and you are also very naive into the inner workings of your athletic dept. :read: That means your school is broke son. :retard: Just because the <b>state</b> throws a new bldg up here or there every 4th or 5th year does not mean that your school is rich. :lol:

Now. The mindset. Speak to some of the super-recruits and you'll find your answer. I've heard it for the last 19+ years from the hotbed kids in the greater dfw area, from a few here or there north of Houston, from a few I've known in Col-OH, and as recent as my own son, who was a top-10 NC/OH fball recruit and top-15 bball recruit in NC. Our coaches/recruiters don't stand a chance in hades when certain kids have a certain view of HBCUs and/or HBCU coaching staff. :read:
 
We got more excuses than an apple orchard got apples as to why we have stood "pat" on shat we accomplished 50 years ago.
WE didn't take advantage of shat in mordern times starting in the 1980's when the rest of the school's on our level kicked shat into high gear and changed with the athletic times.

All I heard when people proposed change or updating our athletic systems was that OTHER SCHOOLS WISH they could do like HBCU's.
While we were bragging about playing in front of 50,000 people, these other school's actually got better, recruited better, and bought in people at the administrative,(AD), and coaching level that were actually qualified to take shat to the next level instead of being somebody's buddy in need of a job.

That mindset is still in place today in 2010 if you look at some of the decisions our so-called leaders make OR DON'T MAKE.
Look at the cartoonish debackle our SWAC Tournament basketball move turned out to be.
That fool didn't even get gurantee's before jumping and now we on the search again.
 
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Is the MEAC the only Conference that we can Compare ourselves too? Are we so Stuck on the "HBCU" Title that we have forgotten that we are " DIV 1" in the "NCAA" that competes against "HBCU" as well as " Non HBCU" schools. are we limiting ourselves to the Point that Making the tournament is good enough?

Nope, that is why I said "as are a lot of conferences". Check the records and the stats. We are not alone. Yes, you will get a team to make a run every blue moon but at the end of the day, the same conferences are running it...the ones with the money
 
Jag79, you'd better put a bottle on that which you speak or some of your alums and others alums are gonna' come up in here and recant what Southern did in 1993 to GaTech and what JState did to UCONN in 1986 or whenever it was. :retard:

This is Panther88 right here---> :retard: because when I speak w/ one of the young super soon to be graduating student-atheletes, you'll find that what they're speaking about doesn't gel w/ what some of these stuck in the 60s/70s SWAC grads are speaking about. :|

Some don't want to accept that shooters is what made that offense work. When you don't have shooters, you have to slow the game down, period! NOT one team in this conference has shooters.
 
Question, we are always screaming that these are Money Games, etc.. but do anyone really Know how much money is involved? I mean if our Schools are playing 12 money Games ayear which has been going on for the last 5 years, shouldnt some our budget be set? If our Schools call profiting a 100k per Game then thats almost half the Budget.. So what are we calling money Games? And Why dont schools like Butler need so many money games? They are smaller then most of our schools..

And sorry PV and TSU dont recruit Houston Well, they pick up a lot of Trash, just like the rest of our schools
 
Question, we are always screaming that these are Money Games, etc.. but do anyone really Know how much money is involved? I mean if our Schools are playing 12 money Games ayear which has been going on for the last 5 years, shouldnt some our budget be set? If our Schools call profiting a 100k per Game then thats almost half the Budget.. So what are we calling money Games? And Why dont schools like Butler need so many money games? They are smaller then most of our schools..

And sorry PV and TSU dont recruit Houston Well, they pick up a lot of Trash, just like the rest of our schools
Money games generally pay $10k to $20k per game, I think. So, it's not a whole lot of money.
 
Money games generally pay $10k to $20k per game, I think. So, it's not a whole lot of money.

Rob, some of those $$$ games pay upwards 25,000$-55,000$. When I found out who the MAJOR players were (the $$$$ FBS folx), I understood why we did (past tense) what we do. (present tense)
 
Rob, some of those $$$ games pay upwards 25,000$-55,000$. When I found out who the MAJOR players were (the $$$$ FBS folx), I understood why we did (past tense) what we do. (present tense)

I have never heard a number that high but the last time I paid attention was about 10 years ago and then as Robber said, you would be good to get $20K.
 
I have never heard a number that high but the last time I paid attention was about 10 years ago and then as Robber said, you would be good to get $20K.

I saw a 55,000$ figure for somebody SWAC because they cleaned up that particular year and raked in over 300,000$ just in $$$$ games.

I'll try to find it (give me a few mins).
 
Question, we are always screaming that these are Money Games, etc.. but do anyone really Know how much money is involved? I mean if our Schools are playing 12 money Games ayear which has been going on for the last 5 years, shouldnt some our budget be set? If our Schools call profiting a 100k per Game then thats almost half the Budget.. So what are we calling money Games? And Why dont schools like Butler need so many money games? They are smaller then most of our schools..

And sorry PV and TSU dont recruit Houston Well, they pick up a lot of Trash, just like the rest of our schools

1.) I don't think we play too many money games. Tell me how many Butler played vs JSU or Grambling.

2.) PWCs are not funded the same way we are. We try to live and die by $5 tickets and hook-ups. They live by season tickets, sponsorships, and donations.

3.) The money we get for money games in bball does not go to bball programs. It is used to offset other athletic department costs.

...as for the original question. Honestly, bball programs across the nation have taken a hit so you see a lot more parity. However, just because a 13 seed beat a #3 does not mean that JSU or UAPB could not have done the same. The key to NCAA tourney success (especially in the first round) is seeding. We can't have teams like Alcorn and Grambling with 2 and 6 wins and expect our conference to get anything higher than a 16 seed. The 16 seed does not speak for the quality of our NCAA or NIT representative. It speaks for the conference as a whole. UAPB beat somebody's champion easily so we ain't as bad as we want us to be. :lecture: We just need to improve across the board and maybe we can get a better seed.
 
I've seen schools get as high as $90,000 for a game.

That just seems very high to me. For that type of payout, it must have been against a team with a huge arena (with a fan base that will show up to a game regardless of opponent) and high ticket prices. If you sell 10K seats at $20 each, that is only $200K. I know you have to add in concessions and parking revenue but you also have to add in expenses (security, ticket takers, printed material, parking attendants, etc...) that the host school will incur to host a game.
 
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