Will a inner-city black high school ever win a state football title again?


T

The Panther Fan

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I am asking this because I think the last football title won by a black, inner-city school in Houston was Yates in 1985. They got back to the title game in 92 but since then, their program has suffered.

(we seem to have no problem winning a hoops title)

The last inner city (in the media's terms) school in the playoffs bowed out today in Houston to a school of suburban preppies who thrive on chop blocking. Madison easily had the better talent and speed but suspect coaching caused them to bow out to the preppies.

My question is, will we ever see a inner city school compete for a state high school football championship?

I doubt it because as soon as blacks and hispanics get the dough, their gone to the suburban schools. The parents see the bragging rights and sometimes forget about the welfare of the kids and ship them out.

If we're going to see a team compete in Houston or Dallas, things have to change. First, we might have to consolidate rival schools that are within miles of each other and expand our talent base.

Secondly, someone has to loose the purse strings within the athletic departments and fund more coaching slots. The team I saw, their defensive coordinator has to juggle coaching the women's basketball team and playoffs at the same time.

Third, you might as well start recruiting in addition to keeping the kids from running away to schools in the white hoods even though their zoned to a black school. If you have a magnet program at your school, your home free.

--------------------------------

My HS is in the suburbs but it turned black in the mid-80s and today, it resembles an inner city school with a suburban district income. We had a lock on the talent base in our area (band, athletics, etc) until the school district decides to break our dynasty up and send kids to schools as far as ten miles away from their homes.

As a result, our programs start to decline in numbers and the same kids who we were counting on to build the program were running the ball for the new schools.

However, my district has decided to open a new black high school next year and its primary goal is to get the kids back home who were being bussed to the far schools. They will benefit immediately.

And the say segregation does not exist still.

Bring back the Prairie View athletic league, if we can't win, might as well start our own.
 
Maybe it's because I'm new to Houston....

Madison was clearly out coached and for some reason suffered from the "Sced of the White Boys" Syndrome. I saw exactly what they were doing to Madison. Those running backs for Westlake were stepping up and putting a hit on the DBs before the DBs could put a hit on them. They were running straight at those boys. After awhile you could see that it made Madison's secondary arm tackle for the rest of the game. They was trying not to get hit first, which resulted in alot of missed tackles.

Madison, on the otherhand, was not running the ball with consistency. When they did run, they were busy trying to out juke the defender, instead of getting the yards needed. Most of the yards that Madison made was to the sidelines, which won't make a first down in football. I could tell that the kids were well coached. They ran more plays than any SWAC team did all year. Their playbook is extensive.

Vincent Young was not as effective last night. The reason why he was ineffective came from great coaching. Westlake has taught their defense how to stay home. In otherwords, when a QB is better at scrambling for yards you don't make him run around as much. Let him be still in the pocket and cover the receivers. I saw Westlakes coach act a donkey on his defense after they chased him around aimlessly. But, Vincent does have an arm and he aired that ball out numerous times. The recievers were just not coming back to the ball. Plus Vincent wasn't as accurate as he had been previously. Dude reminds me of Robert Kent.

As far as your deal with the inner city schools winning. Well, you get that everywhere. It's not just in Texas. Look at alot of the things that Dahill says about Huntsville High school sports. It's the same thing until somebody gets caught, like Grissom did.
 

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This problem is all over the South. First, For a small town their HS team is their "NFL" team. Second, You have the booster and touchdown clubs providing weight and fieldhouses for the football team. Inner city schools only have what the city provides them. You have second rate uniforms and poor facilities. The alumni should get together and help their alma mater. A inner city school can win a championship. They just need the resources to compete.
 
City schools always are gonna be at a disadvantage due to districting.. A few flicks of a pen determine where each person goes to school.. I don't believe you should be able to drive less than ten minutes and pass three high schools.. In Jackson, for instance, if they would combine Provine with Lanier and Wingfield with Jim Hill, the result would be some powerhouse schools... Both would be in the 1500 - to 2000 student range.. the same as the 5A powerhouses they have to compete against.
 
I'll tell you what the problem is....

When you compare city school and country (or rural) schools, one thing becomes glaringly apparent to me.

With the city schools, the athletes come from different 'feeder' schools (middle/Jr. high). The high school coaches then have to teach incoming players a totally new offense and defensive schemes, because each middle school runs it's own fundamental schemes. And that takes time. And in most cases, seniors are the only ones on the team who grasp the entire scheme. But you've got juniors and sophpmores (and sometimes freshmen) who're forced into playing before the know the system. And this makes the team less productive. And so they lose games. Or don't win very many (especially early in the season) until the end of the season. But by then, it may be too late. If the feeder schools would run the same scheme as the High Schools they 'feed', then they'd have better success.

But country schools are different. First of all, the schools are usually grades 6-12 and have JV and Varsity teams. Either that, or there are only one or two feeder schools for that high school. And with the 6-12 schools, you've got kids playing for 6 years, in the same system. The JV runs the same schemes as the varsity. This means that if a 6th grader learns the complete scheme by the time he's 9th grade, then he's got 3 more years to execute it. Meaning he's improving his technique and getting better as a player, and not just learning the system (like the city kids). That gives country schools an advantage all the time. Either that, or the one or two feeder schools run the same schemes as the high school. Either way, the kids learn the system earlier, and have a longer time executing it. And that makes a difference.

If you compare 10th graders at city schools and 10th graders at country schools, I guarantee the country school kid is going to have a much better grasp of the system, because he would've been in it since 6th grade(4 years), whereas the city school kid is in his 2nd year.

And I know in Mississippi, the country (and county) schools are always ranked at the top of the poles.

And another thing to consider is that some county schools draw kids from that entire county, as compared to a city school that only draws form it's district. Madison Central High School in Madison, Mississippi is always at the top of the High School rankings, because they pull students from the entire southern end of Madison County. And they're really good because the black boys from East Flora go there now. And the Jackson schools can hardly ever beat them. And schools like Brandon, Warren Central, Vicksburg, South Panola, Lousiville, Magee, Mendenhall, McComb, South Pike, Meridian and so on.......
 
like Dirty said, they need to close down several of the city schools that are within miles of each other.

As they say, strength comes in numbers so putting them together a lot of your problems are solved.

But if you went to game yesterday, Madison had way more talent. If they could have the resources Westlake had, Young could not be beat. Watching the white kids run around all happy makes you mad. If they don't play football after HS, they got something to look forward too. This is it for a lot of brothers.
 
Maybe the folks in Atlanta can help me for stating the playoff action since 1992. But for almost 17 years, the City of Atlanta high schools only won two or three games in the playoffs from about 1975 until 1991. Or I should say that is what I remember. It was George High School that got to the AAA finals in 1991 where they lost.

Even when there are mostly poor Black rural school enrollments, they will more than likely beat the city schools in football. Schools like Monticello and Greenville were strong teams in the playoffs, and their systems were mostly Black. I should know. I went up against one school and saw the other play.

My suspicion is that (what some have already said) the city schools do not emphasis football. Though most of the people, Black and White, were very poor in my hometown, the town rallied around the football team. For 15 years my school won over 70% of their games and appeared in two state finals and won one. After a down period for about eight years, they are now the number one team in the state, Class A, and are in the state finals.
 
the talent is too spread around in the city. When you got seven kids on one block attend 3 different high schools, something is wrong. What I hate the district will look past that.

Now since HS football is a business in Texas, something has to happen. But as long as the brothers keep moving out 30 miles past the city limits, good luck.

I have never seen a rural, black HS in Texas. Most of them were closed down in the 60s. I know folks who attended a rural black school at one time and they admitted that was the worst mistake possible.
 
I think that Vincent Young was quite effective in passing for 5 TDs and running for one. IMO, Westlake was very familiar with the weakness in Madison's defense and exploited it. Also their running game was very effective in keeping the ball out of Madison's hand as long as possible, and when Young was sent in to play in a defense role, it was a bit too late. It appeared to me that more strengthening in the weight room could have helped because of the attempted tackles were for the most part meaningless. Even with those counts against Madison, the interception late in the game and that 80 yd gain on 3 &11 decided the winner of the game.
 
Panther Fan did you notice that Madison's defensive captain #43 (Alex Reyna) attempted to play with a broken arm. He tried a couple of downs but just couldn't do it as he is a difference maker in the middle.

And I tought I was the only one to notice the chop blocking that was committed out there. I just couldn't understand how Westlake's offensive linemen were pushing Madison off the line; hell, they were diving into their knees on every snap!!!

Young did look uncomfortable out there at times but he still threw for 382 yards and 5 touchdown passes while rushing for 82 yards with a touchdown run. Not a bad season with his numbers:

2,545 passing yds / 35 TD passes
1,274 rushing yds / 24 TD runs

It was a great season for Madison as they brought all the inner-city schools (20+ schools) together as one. Good luck Vincent... please make the best decision for you.
 
C-leb, it looked like he hurt it last week from what i remember, he was favoring it. I guess it went out for good this week.

Some Westlake fan has tried to explain their type of blocking on another message board. Madison lost several guys during the game last week, they call it crack blocking. that type of blocking should be outlawed.

LBMH, that's where coaching comes in when it came to Vincent playing DB. He was out there against Katy throughout the game, but he does not get out there against Westlake until the damage is done. One or two long touchdowns is enough for me to get him out there.

Also, bad coaching appears at the end of the half when they were down 21-7. Instead of going down by one TD at the half, Madison drives all the way to the 15, gets five yards on first down. Instead of running a run play on 2nd and third down, they decide to pass the ball both times and ultimately failed on fourth down. Westlake thens cores with a minute left.

And you mentioned weights, I have not seen Madison's weight room in years but I can imagine how it looks. The only way they will get new weights is if the booster club buys them or the team fundraises them.

You know Westlake has no problem.

They seem to have their way with the Houston schools. Aldine in 96, Ike in 2000 and Madison in 01.

I cannot wait to get in administration,
 
Well here in Birmingham,many players don't attend the school they're zoned to.Many players go to another school on the other side of town.Ronald Steele,Jazmond Burks,and Chad Jackson are three players that stay in the same community that I stay in but Chad and Jazmond goes to Hoover(ranked 11th in the nation)and Ronald goes to John Carroll.All three of these players would have made a big difference had they went to the school that they were zoned to.Chad was the 2nd runner-up for Alabama's Mr.Football and he's only a junior.Jazmond is the fastest kid in the city and is known as a track star more so than a football player.Ronald lead the metro-area in all purpose yards and he's only a sophomore.Here in Birmingham,a kid can leave his school and transfer to a white school probably 12 miles away from his house and have instant elgibility to play sports but if a kid leaves a black-inner city school for another inner city school probably less than 2 miles from his previous school he would have to sit out a year.:redhot:.This year the Birmingham City Schools only put 1 school into the play-offs and that was an all-time low.When I think about it,I don't go to the school I'm zoned to either.I'm supposed to be at Minor(a white county school) but I attend Jackson-Olin(a black inner-city school).My reason for choosing Jackson-Olin over Minor was that Jackson-Olin is a state powerhouse in football and Minor were having rollercoaster seasons.

For the City of Birmingham to have dominated football from the 60's all the way up to this point,and now only have one team in the play-offs is a wake up call.There are probably two black school that have booster clubs in Birmingham.Most of the money for new jerseys and equipment is raised by our parents compared to Hoover which has an $80,000 budjet on sports a year.At our first game of the season(Labor Day Classic)we had 37,083 in attendance and I have yet to see what our school has done with that money:redhot: The second game of the season we played our rival Ensley and the game was sold out two days before the game and we have to raise oney for our own equipment:redhot: ?Hoover has nowhere nere the type of crowds that we have but yet and still the have new jerseys and equipment every year.Inner city schools are starting to not care about anything accept basketball.
 
Great Topic Panther Fan.......

It was just last week, my best friend, and I had the same conversation, and the sad thing is, it won't happen anytime soon, at least in LA.

Taylor-Made & Panther Fan, great points, especially about 3 kids living in the same block, going to 3 different schools. I know that was the case for me, and only one of us, went to the district school.

In New Orleans, if you're good, and have decent grades, more than likely St. Augustine is going to snap you up, or one of the other Catholic, or Private schools. Though it is an all boy school, they get the cream of the crop.

It's like someone said in an earlier post, the public schools don't offer the same facilites, equipment, support (be it fan, or administration), or COACHING.

Granted their are some decent coaches in the New Orleans Public School System, but a lot of the assistants are not on the school's payroll, and a good majority, didn't have any coaching experience on the college level. "L", our defensive line coach, was the schools janitor, and our secondary coach, was the stand by substitute.

No NO High School, had their own stadium, which meant, your games were played at the run down city stadium, and more than likely in the afternoon.

It's sad, but the money just isn't there for PS to legitimately compete for the state title, I know the talent is, but in the grand scheme of things, nobody in LA, wants to see a bunch of black kids, with gold teeth, corn rows, and tatoos second lining in the Superdome, on the 2nd Saturday in December.

If a PS gets to the quarterfinals in LA, it's almost gauranteed they'll lose, even if it's St. Aug.

NICE
 
In Huntsville the problem isnt necissarily with football, but BASKETBALL. We have the majority/minority rule like Birmingham. A BLACK s tudent can transfer to any white school in Huntsville and play immediately, and vice versa. First of all HOW MANY WHITE KIDS DO YOU THINK are going to transfer to an all black school. My high school J O Johnson High is one of the 3 largest high schools in Alabama and was built to hold 3500 students and we now have an enrollment of 900. Grissom is the all white school in South Huntsville and it is smaller and has about 3000 students that can barely walk down the halls.

I believe you SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ATTEND A SCHOOL THAT ISNT IN YOUR DISTRICT. Your school zone represents your NEIGHBORHOOD, aint no way in hell i would play a sport for another neighborhood.
 

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You mean to tell me that there's a school that was built for 3500 only has 900 in attendance and there's a school built for 2000 has 3000 in it and no one's COMPLAINING???? How in the world can you have and overcrowded school and a massive underattended one and no one says a word?
 
I've noticed that ALL the B'ham high schools are predominately black. Jackson-Olin, Ensley, Carver, West End, Wenonah, Woodlawn, and Huffman(don't know how Huffman is a city school when its located in Centerpoint). The city council is talking about combining Jackson-Olin and Ensley as well West End and Wenonah. However, I feel they shouldn't because these are rival schools. Combining them would kill the rivalry.

However, there was an article in the Bham News about the city schools not winning a state title(football) since the 70's. West End made it to the championship game in '93 but lost.
 
Originally posted by Bengal E
You mean to tell me that there's a school that was built for 3500 only has 900 in attendance and there's a school built for 2000 has 3000 in it and no one's COMPLAINING???? How in the world can you have and overcrowded school and a massive underattended one and no one says a word?
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The WHITE FOLKS are complaining down there, BUT GUESS WHAT, they are going to build a BRAND NEW HIGH SCHOOL down there to help out overcrowding when we have an EMPTY school in North Huntsville. Common sense says move school zone lines so there will be a shift in enrollment, but nooooo THE WHITE FOLKS GET A NEW SCHOOL to help with overcrowding and they are talking about CLOSING my high school (which is the newest high school in Huntsville and is only about 25 years old). We just got our first Black superintendent in Huntsville, so hopefully something will be done soon.
 
Originally posted by 2Dirty
I've noticed that ALL the B'ham high schools are predominately black. Jackson-Olin, Ensley, Carver, West End, Wenonah, Woodlawn, and Huffman(don't know how Huffman is a city school when its located in Centerpoint). The city council is talking about combining Jackson-Olin and Ensley as well West End and Wenonah. However, I feel they shouldn't because these are rival schools. Combining them would kill the rivalry.

However, there was an article in the Bham News about the city schools not winning a state title(football) since the 70's. West End made it to the championship game in '93 but lost.
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Have you seen the condition that those schools are in? The city of Birmingham cant afford to build a new school for every high school in Birmingham, so they are building mega schools for ever 2 schools and combining enrollment from 2 schools. I know that Wenonah and West End are BIG RIVALS, but the schools are on the SAME STREET, around a 5 minute drive. The school that is going to be built for West End and Wennonah will be called Martin Luther King High, and will be the first highi school in Alabama named after MLK (SAD). The megaschool built for JO and Ensley will keep the name Jackson Olin. Carver and Phillips have already had their school built and it is located off of I-65. I think this is a good thing for Birmingham schools. You have all ciyt schools with enrollments over 2200 now.
 
they need to do the same thing in Houston with some schools.

Some of these schools are minutes from each other and their best days athletically are behind them. Their playing 4A instead of 5A ball and their suffering on the lower level.

These schools produce at least five decent players each but the rest suck. Combine those five players with the 6 or 7 good kids their neighbor has 2 miles down the road and we're getting back to respectability.

Another thing, have you noticed the condition of the city marching bands? Pitiful....

The new black school their building where I live will have a band that will blow these schools with big traditions away in their first year. They allocated $235K for the startup of band instruments.
 
Originally posted by The Panther Fan
Another thing, have you noticed the condition of the city marching bands? Pitiful....

The new black school their building where I live will have a band that will blow these schools with big traditions away in their first year. They allocated $235K for the startup of band instruments.
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You couldnt have been more TRUE... prime example ATLANTA GA. ATL has so many black high schools that I wouldnt even began to count. EVERY LAST ONE of their city school bands are HORRIBLE with the exception of Mays and BTW. On the other hand if you go to Dekalb Co, which is basically minutes from ATL city limits, it is very different. You have band powerhouses like Cedar Grove, SouthWest Dekalb, Stephenson, Redan, and others. I was told students at SWD have to pay 600 doller band dues at the beginning of each school year.
 
Dizzam Panther! It really didn't hit me until you posted this. I hated like "L" that Madison lost (was pulling for them 100%), but, I've too much history w/ Westlake and I know how my former head coach is and what he demands in terms of execution and perfection. I also know the type of $$$ they've poured into that programme (indoor practice facility, weight room that makes 24 Hour Fitness look shameful, nautica facilities, <b>FULL-TIME</b> strength trainer, <b>FULL-TIME</b> trainer, ...). Same thing w/ Southlake Carrol (which got pounded by Ennis). Denton Ryan is turning into one of those suburban schools that you referred to. Denton High used to be the ONLY high school in inner city Denton :emlaugh:. But, w/ the advent of the NEW tax base for the Ryan school in the outlying areas around Lake Lewisville and Lake Dallas AND the txferring of former athletes of Denton High, they've now became an instant powerhouse. I hate to see it, but, it's happened.

Dallas too is experiencing the SAME problem that Houston has experienced. The former traditional powerhouse 5As have now had such a major reduction in their #s to a point where they're borderline largest 3A/smaller 4A schools (SOC, WT White, Skyline,...) or they're not competitive anymore (Kimball, Carter mainly). I think Dallas Kimball was the last inner city school to win the trophy in the early nineties or late eighties. The athletes that would've been slated for them have now gone to the Grapevines, DeSotos, Lancasters, Carrolltons, Lewisvilles, Flower Mounds, ... suburbs of the metroplex.

As for the country schools? Well, I'm biased (being raised north of Houston in the country and all LOL). Seems to me that the country/rural schools stand a better chance @ state these days (Mojo didn't make it this year) because of the feeder system that someone alluded to. Same thing works for Mojo too. They start them young (6th grade) and by the time they're sophs, they know the complete scheme inside and out.

Ennis in a landslide over Bay City and Lufkin and Celina in a blowout. Those country boyz are coming to play. I'm still trying to figure out how Mesquite made it. To me, they weren't that good. But, to go undefeated in this state, you've got to almost be collegiate borderline in terms of talent.
 
LACK OF COACHING!!!!!!!! Check this out,in the Birmingham City School System to be a coach you must work at the school.Which means your History teacher could be coaching you football:rolleyes: .In other parts of Alabama,schools hire "Football Coaches" and their only job is to coach.Former Alabama coach Mike Dubose is being payed $90,000 to coach is hometown football team.If a small town like that can pay that much for a coach why can't big cities like Birmingham,Atlanta,and New Orleans?
 
Originally posted by DAHILL


You couldnt have been more TRUE... prime example ATLANTA GA. ATL has so many black high schools that I wouldnt even began to count. EVERY LAST ONE of their city school bands are HORRIBLE with the exception of Mays and BTW. On the other hand if you go to Dekalb Co, which is basically minutes from ATL city limits, it is very different. You have band powerhouses like Cedar Grove, SouthWest Dekalb, Stephenson, Redan, and others. I was told students at SWD have to pay 600 doller band dues at the beginning of each school year.
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I agree with your statements. However, I think that Dekalb County has grown so fast with affluent blacks until I dont know if you would not consider this group "The New and Progressive Inner City." If memory serves me correctly Dekalb Co. has surpassed Fulton in the number of schools. And, all of the schools that you mentioned in Dekalb is over 90% black. ABC news did a story on the "Boom Burbs" of Dekalb. You are correct in stating these parents pay large sums of money at the beginning of the year. But, their investments dont stop there. Parents constantly pay money for trips accross the map for these Dekalb bands. SWD has made appearances in the past in The USA Today Prep Top 25 but as of late hasn't maintained. It seems as though they represent but cant win the big ones.....Peace
 
JROCK,
That's a good point. Black folks moving out of the city into the suburbs have drained the inner city schools of a lot of students, athletes. You're right, the Dekalb schools are much larger than Atl schools. Consider, of all the predominantly black schools in the city, only Douglass competes in the largest classification, while the predominantly black schools in Dekalb County have grown a LOT in the past few years. (2 new black high schools)

btw, JROCK,
SWD has fallen off because of its new rival, Stephenson (one of the new black high schools in Dekalb). The school has been open for bout 5 years or so and they whooped SWD this year and made it to the state quarterfinals before losing 31-28 to Valdosta. Also, their band is definitely on the level or even better than SWD.

DAHILL,
Atl doesn't have a M.L. King High School either. There is a new high school in Dekalb County with his name, but none in Atl, (there is a King Middle School in the city though)

Twista,
You seem real smart for a high school dude. Good points.
 
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