When did the 'STANDS' become more important than the 'FIELD'?


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I'll say this JR, from reading that, you would have to been around our group to see we were not far different caliber players then you guy... Yes the guys that was on that vertuoso tip wasn't our REAL strong players.... That's what we felt was missing from 2000 compared to the 90's... but that type of player MAINLY game from New Orleans in my time...And that's the main difference from the 90's and 2000's :tup:
 
SUtrp96 said:
That's what you getting twisted though... We had a gang of folk on Maynard order... but was also quality players.. even our NOT so good players was MAYNARD, AUTURO kinda players... IGNANT!!!...lol Trust me I know what you are talking about... Bring that convo. up next time you talk to Cruz... Tell him "Jared" from Warren Easton (New Orleans) played stage band with him in 96.... He'll know me...:tup:


Hey man it is all good. Maynard is my favorite trumpet player of all time. He is my trumpet hero. LOL. If you guys had some personalities in the band during that time, I guess we didn't see them when we would come around. It just seem like yall were so business like and quiet church boys. I just didn't see it is all. Maybe yall were on your best behavior when we would be around. My LB ZN always says that it seem like folks be scared to say something in the big room. We actually told Doc that. He said you are right, I don't have all that foolishness in the band like it was when you were here. All we could do is :lmao: Next time I see Cruz I will. Good People that dude is. Hell he should still be playing. If you ever in H-town go check out this place called Maxwells. I know he was DJing there for awhile. I saw some flyers out last week when I was there that he was DJing other spots too. He have the house crunk.
 



SUtrp96 said:
I'll say this JR, from reading that, you would have to been around our group to see we were not far different caliber players then you guy... Yes the guys that was on that vertuoso tip wasn't our REAL strong players.... That's what we felt was missing from 2000 compared to the 90's... but that type of player MAINLY game from New Orleans in my time...:tup:

You see that's where we disagree at. I think that as far as style is concerned the 00's played with a better style than the 90's. That's my opinion and also the opinion of Mr. Knighten and Mr. Jackson. The new generation (my generation) of the Jukebox had great musicians just like the 80's and 90's. The 60's, 70's, and 80's Jukebox was known for their funk and groove, The 90's had that raw power, and 00 is bringing that groove back to the Jukebox.
 
JR said:
Hey man it is all good. Maynard is my favorite trumpet player of all time. He is my trumpet hero. LOL. If you guys had some personalities in the band during that time, I guess we didn't see them when we would come around. It just seem like yall were so business like and quiet church boys. I just didn't see it is all. Maybe yall were on your best behavior when we would be around. My LB ZN always says that it seem like folks be scared to say something in the big room. We actually told Doc that. He said you are right, I don't have all that foolishness in the band like it was when you were here. All we could do is :lmao: Next time I see Cruz I will. Good People that dude is. Hell he should still be playing. If you ever in H-town go check out this place called Maxwells. I know he was DJing there for awhile. I saw some flyers out last week when I was there that he was DJing other spots too. He have the house crunk.


JR....lmao You a trip man... Understand I did attend SU when admission was still OPEN...lol I had 2 CB on trumpet, some beast that showed up to band camp with a duffle band coming straight from Tulane and Broad (OPP)-Orleans Parish Prison... We had a wild group man, realize we were the brothers and cousins of them crazy mofos from your time and a lil after you...and a lil before you... some of our thirds that was that good of players were the cats that used to be in my suite going at it challenging every night seeing who could follow Auturo the furthest.... It was every night with us.. and in the practice room the upperclassmen stayed trying to get with us...lol

upperclassmen like Detrick who would act like a pit bull and bit anything or any body, Swamp, Leonard, Maurice (from the Magnolia projects)...lol Lil Ronnie (who stood up as a crab in 94 and said ( I dare any nega to touch me ) of course he got beat....lol But dude was 5'3 1/2 from St.Aug....lol.. We had too many characters to name bruh...

We had the John Mac baby angolos as well.. As well as the fortier... but we brought alot of Kennedy and 35 and Easton Folk as well...:tup:
 
PsychoJag said:
You see that's where we disagree at. I think that as far as style is concerned the 00's played with a better style than the 90's. That's my opinion and also the opinion of Mr. Knighten and Mr. Jackson. The new generation (my generation) of the Jukebox had great musicians just like the 80's and 90's. The 60's, 70's, and 80's Jukebox was known for their funk and groove, The 90's had that raw power, and 00 is bringing that groove back to the Jukebox.


Yeah we differ there for many reason on that on.. 90, 91, 92, 93, 94 and 96 had Groovin bands...BUT with power.. that was the New Orleans influence.. listen to our HS bands from New Orleans during that time..

95 reminded me of 2000.. Real stiff sounding band... It was evident with that New Orleans influence left the Mellophone section in 2000, when them cats got zipped. 97 and 98 was the only band I could think of that was really about pure power... 98 had some funk and grove to it as well... But both them bands could have been beter playing bands in my opinion..

99 revil many band ever come threw SU in many opinion...

2001 was more on 90's order more of a 98 style band...

05 fits more of a 90's style band...
 
SUtrp96 said:
JR....lmao You a trip man... Understand I did attend SU when admission was still OPEN...lol I had 2 CB on trumpet, some beast that showed up to band camp with a duffle band coming straight from Tulane and Broad (OPP)-Orleans Parish Prison... We had a wild group man, realize we were the brothers and cousins of them crazy mofos from your time and a lil after you...and a lil before you... some of our thirds that was that good of players were the cats that used to be in my suite going at it challenging every night seeing who could follow Auturo the furthest.... It was every night with us.. and in the practice room the upperclassmen stayed trying to get with us...lol

upperclassmen like Detrick who would act like a pit bull and bit anything or any body, Swamp, Leonard, Maurice (from the Magnolia projects)...lol Lil Ronnie (who stood up as a crab in 94 and said ( I dare any nega to touch me ) of course he got beat....lol But dude was 5'3 1/2 from St.Aug....lol.. We had too many characters to name bruh...

We had the John Mac baby angolos as well.. As well as the fortier... but we brought alot of Kennedy and 35 and Easton Folk as well...:tup:

I am not the trip you probably think I am. LOL. Like I said we didn't see that side of you guys. I didn't say nothing never happened over there. The band room just seem quiet to us when we would show up. So you guys were some jekyll and hyde types. We were Hyde all the time........except on Saturdays. Doc would be worried about folks coming to visit the BR. He would tell us we act like a pack of wild F'ing animals. Speaking of John Mac. Our whole Mello section was from John Mac. Talk about Gangsta. LOL@ the 5'3 1/2 cat from St. Aug daring the upperclassmen. I bet that was hilarious.
 
SUtrp96 said:
Yeah we differ there for many reason on that on.. 90, 91, 92, 93, 94 and 96 had Groovin bands...BUT with power.. that was the New Orleans influence.. listen to our HS bands from New Orleans during that time..

95 reminded me of 2000.. Real stiff sounding band... It was evident with that New Orleans influence left the Mellophone section in 2000, when them cats got zipped. 97 and 98 was the only band I could think of that was really about pure power... 98 had some funk and grove to it as well... But both them bands could have been beter playing bands in my opinion..

99 revil many band ever come threw SU in many opinion...

2001 was more on 90's order more of a 98 style band...

05 fits more of a 90's style band...

LOL 7 out of 8 of those cat's on mellophone in 2000 were from the N.O. What was missing from those guys that got zipped was the killer mentality.
 
PsychoJag said:
LOL 7 out of 8 of those cat's on mellophone in 2000 were from the N.O. What was missing from those guys that got zipped was the killer mentality.


Basically.. that was the only difference from 90's and 2000, 2002, 03 sorta feel off toward the end..... 04 picked it up, because their mellos got alot of help from Ronald Barrier......
05 was a band I could be satisfied with any year...:tup:
 
PsychoJag said:
You see that's where we disagree at. I think that as far as style is concerned the 00's played with a better style than the 90's. That's my opinion and also the opinion of Mr. Knighten and Mr. Jackson. The new generation (my generation) of the Jukebox had great musicians just like the 80's and 90's. The 60's, 70's, and 80's Jukebox was known for their funk and groove, The 90's had that raw power, and 00 is bringing that groove back to the Jukebox.


I like the 99 and last year's version of the Jukebox the best out the last few years. The early 90s were still nice. 95 like Jared said seemed a little stiff. 96-98 had a smoother sound with some power. You know what I think has been missing for awhile until last year was a hella T-bone section. 05 Trumpets were nice which was good to see. I can tell after 99 the trumpets fell off somewhat. My favorite trumpet section of the 90s would be when Shannon, Doug, Donovan, Chance and them cats were around. That Doug could scream.
One thing I would give the whole 90s credit for is having some good Tuba sections. We had some good ones but the 90s tubas set it off for me. Maybe because Mr. J is around.
 
JR said:
I like the 99 and last year's version of the Jukebox the best out the last few years. The early 90s were still nice. 95 like Jared said seemed a little stiff. 96-98 had a smoother sound with some power. You know what I think has been missing for awhile until last year was a hella T-bone section. 05 Trumpets were nice which was good to see. I can tell after 99 the trumpets fell off somewhat. My favorite trumpet section of the 90s would be when Shannon, Doug, Donovan, Chance and them cats were around. That Doug could scream.
One thing I would give the whole 90s credit for is having some good Tuba sections. We had some good ones but the 90s tubas set it off for me. Maybe because Mr. J is around.


That's my dawg.. Shannon.. my and his brother cool (Jeremy) St.Aug trumpet 95'..

You right that's is what was missing a killer bone section..... The trumpet changed styles JR.. they started playing very choppy.. It changed in 03 though, very good observation Alot of those cats confused that with playing CLEANER.. Knighten likees that kind of style.. Listen to 95 that was what SU would sound like under the direction of Knighten.. Knighten had mostly control over 95, he likes stuff played real short.. Roy and Eric sound like they wanted all of the flavor as if you were really singing it. That was another big difference.. us 90 folk STUDIED you cats.. Most of these kids don't have SU footage past 01 or 02 Wehad it all.. and when ever we got a song you all played to the room we went check you boys out taking notes.. That was homework for us, since we had more control over the stands we DID ALL we could....:tup:

You may have heard of a crab in 92 name Sammie Mae.. he's out here cutting hair...:tup:
 
JR said:
I like the 99 and last year's version of the Jukebox the best out the last few years. The early 90s were still nice. 95 like Jared said seemed a little stiff. 96-98 had a smoother sound with some power. You know what I think has been missing for awhile until last year was a hella T-bone section. 05 Trumpets were nice which was good to see. I can tell after 99 the trumpets fell off somewhat. My favorite trumpet section of the 90s would be when Shannon, Doug, Donovan, Chance and them cats were around. That Doug could scream.
One thing I would give the whole 90s credit for is having some good Tuba sections. We had some good ones but the 90s tubas set it off for me. Maybe because Mr. J is around.


I think the difference between the 80's Baritone and 90's baritone were you guys played with more of a deep heavy style where in the 90's our Baritone took on this cranking style... Me and my CB talk about that alot... It's prefernce... I prefer what was being done in the 80's, but I still am proud to have been apart of some bands with some cranking getting in your face baritones....lol That's how our Mellos was too.....

Donovan used to come around too...from 35...:tup:
 
SUtrp96 said:
That's what you getting twisted though... We had a gang of folk on Maynard order... but was also quality players.. even our NOT so good players was MAYNARD, AUTURO kinda players... IGNANT!!!...lol ...

:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:
 
dacontinent said:
:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:


I guess you don't like them style trumpet players.. they play outside the box too much for you?
 
I am glad to see you guys work thru the differences in your posts. But there is one thing that you guys brought up about Doc that I agree with, and disagree with.

Doc is a wonderful director and a Great man. He is one of the most influential people in my life. But he wasn't responsible for all that good stuff that was going on in the late 70's thru the 80's. That responsibilty belonged to Roy Johnson!!! In my humble opinion, Roy Johnson is THE #1 reason Southern was good for sooo many years.

Roy ran that band thru and thru!! He did it all!! He was the sound man, the arranger, worked us like Hebrew Slaves on the field, and the best announcer ever!! During the practices for the SuperBowl in '90, Art Bartner, the band director for USC, told Doc on the practice field that he would take Roy back with him on the plane that night. It might have been funny to Doc, but Mr. Bartner was serious.

Roy would put together unbelievable shows. Every Slammin' halftime show from the 80's was Roy. Mr. Johnson was the reason that SU caused all those problems for J-State in '83. No offense to any of the members from the Boom, but that show was so on point it didn't make any sense at all!!!! 'Love is the Key,' 'Dancin'Free,' 'Hearts to Heart,' 'Real Love,' and 'Raid!!!!' Man all of that was Roy Johnson. I marched in the band from '88-'92. Mr. Johnson's last year was Fall '89 -Spring '90. From Fall '88 to Spring '90 I saw first hand what other people had talked about for years. The band was remarkably better when he was there.
Doc was good, but Roy was the man. The entire band program changed after Roy left.
But if you look at it, Doc had some of the best band directors ever created as his assistants. Paul Adams, Don Dillon, Terrell Jackson, Eric Baskin, Alvin Batiste, Lawrence Jackson, Carnell Knighten just to name a few. Like in professional sports, the teams that win the championships are theams with the outstanding assistant coaches. I guess that speaks volumes for Doc!!!
:tup:
 
RoyDisciple88 said:
I am glad to see you guys work thru the differences in your posts. But there is one thing that you guys brought up about Doc that I agree with, and disagree with.

Doc is a wonderful director and a Great man. He is one of the most influential people in my life. But he wasn't responsible for all that good stuff that was going on in the late 70's thru the 80's. That responsibilty belonged to Roy Johnson!!! In my humble opinion, Roy Johnson is THE #1 reason Southern was good for sooo many years.

Roy ran that band thru and thru!! He did it all!! He was the sound man, the arranger, worked us like Hebrew Slaves on the field, and the best announcer ever!! During the practices for the SuperBowl in '90, Art Bartner, the band director for USC, told Doc on the practice field that he would take Roy back with him on the plane that night. It might have been funny to Doc, but Mr. Bartner was serious.

Roy would put together unbelievable shows. Every Slammin' halftime show from the 80's was Roy. Mr. Johnson was the reason that SU caused all those problems for J-State in '83. No offense to any of the members from the Boom, but that show was so on point it didn't make any sense at all!!!! 'Love is the Key,' 'Dancin'Free,' 'Hearts to Heart,' 'Real Love,' and 'Raid!!!!' Man all of that was Roy Johnson. I marched in the band from '88-'92. Mr. Johnson's last year was Fall '89 -Spring '90. From Fall '88 to Spring '90 I saw first hand what other people had talked about for years. The band was remarkably better when he was there.
Doc was good, but Roy was the man. The entire band program changed after Roy left.
But if you look at it, Doc had some of the best band directors ever created as his assistants. Paul Adams, Don Dillon, Terrell Jackson, Eric Baskin, Alvin Batiste, Lawrence Jackson, Carnell Knighten just to name a few. Like in professional sports, the teams that win the championships are theams with the outstanding assistant coaches. I guess that speaks volumes for Doc!!!
:tup:


Interesting Post. Well I think most of us who came in 84 to 89 all are Roy fans. The 83 class and on back were Terrel Jackson Sr fans and gave Roy grief all the time. They loved some Bob. Our crab class in 84 was really Roy's first even though he was there in 83. Paul Adams calls Roy the best and most talented he ever taught at SU. I heard that straight from his mouth while standing in JSU's music building next to former JSU director Dowell Taylor who also said Roy was the man and that basically SU at that point was Roy's band. Honestly if things had worked out differently, Doc would have loved to see Roy run the band after him. It was set up that way back then. You are right, Doc didn't have to do much. I am sure he didn't with Roy's LBs L. Jackson and C. Knighten either.

You are also right Doc has had some hella assistants. That speaks volumes for him since he produced them for the most part. The biggest difference in Roy's days at SU is that he could pretty much convince Doc to do anything. Roy had that way about him. In some ways that was good and some ways it was bad. His personality is totally different than Jackson and Knighten. Roy really picked up most of Doc's personality. Plus he had a big ego just like Doc.

From what I have seen over the last 20 years, Jackson and Knighten are not that way. I love Jackson's humility and his overall deameanor. He has the same energy as Roy, but he has that real personable down home attitude. Folks geniunely like Jackson who also had the upmost respect for Doc. Knighten has always been the way he is now. A task master and no nonsense and will crack on you in a minute. Roy respected Doc but controlled the black man like I have never seen anyone else do. Doc loved some Roy. We would ask is Roy Doc's son or something.

Roy was Doc Jr. LOL. In more ways than one. Doc would want to do one thing and Roy another. Roy would pull Doc aside and convince that his idea was really Doc's idea. Next thing we know, we were doing it Roy's way. LOL. We would be like damn that Roy sure knows how to control the black man. I could be wrong but it seemed to me that Jackson and Knighten didn't try to mess with Doc too much in convincing him to do things. Like stay after the games longer. Roy would have had Doc thinking that the other band director called him a punk and the Juke would have been there all night and negros would be still waiting to eat. LOL. Roy had to have a show to showcase himself. Just like Doc used to be and still is in some respect.

I think the combination of Roy, Eric Baskin and Chester White was critical to our success back then. Doc was Doc. Roy and Eric had a big time competition between each other on arranging. I don't know if Lawrence and Carnell try to one up the other like Roy and Eric did. That isht would be comical. Roy would come out and ask us what is this on yall stands. We would say Baskin just passed this out and it was smoking. Roy would go back to his office and arrange 2 tunes and come back with them later on that day or the next. Then Baskin would be back at it with his cool self.

Chester White kept our marching style tight. He was the one who taught us as crabs the SU marching style. You went out to the field with White. LOL. Man that was a beyotch. Ole White would strap up a Bass Drum and march his arse off to show us up. Still trying to figure out what our assistant Toussaint did. LOL. Then of course the black man was still in his 50's back then so he was a mofo on another level. Always pulling out his trumpet trying to show us something. That is another story in itself.

So even though Roy was the man. I have to give credit to all of them collectively. I think this new regime may have a chance to rival or exceed what those cats did. We'll certainly see.
 



SUtrp96 said:
I guess you don't like them style trumpet players.. they play outside the box too much for you?

On the contrary...I love them. My incredulity had to do with your shoving most of the trumpet section of ANY BAND into the same class with 2 of the top 5 internationally regarded trumpeters of all time. I just could not believe that you did that. It dropped me into a musical coma and put me to sleep.
 
dacontinent said:
On the contrary...I love them. My incredulity had to do with your shoving most of the trumpet section of ANY BAND into the same class with 2 of the top 5 internationally regarded trumpeters of all time. I just could not believe that you did that. It dropped me into a musical coma and put me to sleep.



Naw.. man.. I am saying we had players that mimicked their style...Many players that attacked and released their notes like them and had substantial power..on a MARCHING BAND TIP.
You and I know what we play in the SWAC isn't close to most of the stuff these guys are playing, but our arrangers at SU always wrote out some licks I could hear Auturo or Maynard playing.. I meant we were heavy on their style of screaming...:tup:
 
A good point that was brought up to is the "Announcer" plays a BIG part in selling the field show to the crowd as well...:tup:

The announcer back then I must say was much more amped and hype than Bedell, Bedell do a great job, but it was something about the delevery of the annoucer back in the 80's...

We as middle schoolers and high schooler had fun mimicking the announcer for SU....

"Areeeeeeeeee Youuuuuuuu ready"....... My padna that came up a year after me in 97 used to have that whole skit down to a T.... I used love hearing that cat bust that on our band trips in high school... I would stay saying ..."Oh WINZ, bust that SU field show annoucement one more time"....lol
 
SUtrp96 said:
... You and I know what we play in the SWAC isn't close to most of the stuff these guys are playing, but our arrangers at SU always wrote out some licks I could hear Auturo or Maynard playing.. I meant we were heavy on their style of screaming...:tup:

Thanks. I feel much better now.:wavey:
 
dacontinent said:
Well, I don't know about SU, but we got classroom credit for playing in the marching band ensemble at Jackson State. That meant the bandroom, sectionals, practice field, and games combined as a classroom just like English composition, world history, economics, or physical education. As a computer science major myself, I also took courses in the above disciplines that prepared me to excel in my profession. The objective or each of those classes was to educate me. It is the responsibility of the university to do so. It is why I gave them money. Even though I was not an English composition major I am a fantastic writer and grammarian. Though I am a system analyst, I spend much more time reading and writing than I do anything else. I also spend an awful lot more time doing cost analysis evaluations than I do reading core dumps from abending programs. Now, there were English composition majors, economics majors, history majors, and PE majors in those courses with me 25+ years ago who were not taught anything different than I was. The instructors were there to educate all of us. I doubt that things were much different at SU.

Now, there are courses more intended for music education majors where they are taught marching band techniques, drill design, and music composition for the purpose of preparing those persons to be band directors, just like we didn't have many history majors taking courses in database management. Mr. Haughton, Prof. Davis and Poppa Dup never seemed to hold back anything that would help all of us from an educational perspective, regardless to what our majors were. We were taught to be their replacements and not just their protege. They understood that the measure of the university and themselves as professionals was not our performances at the university while under their direct scrutiny but after we left with the sheepskin. I have the same impression of Doc Greggs and his staff.

The excellence in performance is a by-product of the education given to a college band because it is full of AMATEURS who are paying to be taught by professionals. Otherwise, the amateurs could be left to themselves and should be able to do as well or better than they do in being taught.

The "Dr. Lee's" line from the movie DRUMLINE about education before entertainment is right on point. So is "President Wagner's" line about the alumni contributing money. My challenge was to make sure that the alumni were educated and valued that the university's role. As for the fans who yell and scream and generate the rush of emotion and all the "house" , do you honestly believe that 10% of them have any technical appreciation for the work, effort, hours, study that the Jukebox, Yolanda Adams, Stevie Wonder, EWF, or Wynton Marsalis go through to even prepare to produce those excellent performances? No chance. Oh, they certainly know what they hear and see and whether it or not it is a good performance; but they have no idea of the lessons that the performers and the supporting staff learned along the way nor will they be able to help educate and benefit other performers with them in the future. On the other hand, though you were a computer science major and probably haven't marched in a band since you left SU, a local HS band director would love to have your years of experience with marching technique, composition, drill design, and sound production to be able to call on and help the youngsters in those programs.

The comment regarding the role and expectation, we obviously are not going to agree upon. True, I have learned in any and everything that I have ever done - cub scouts, speach and druma club, waterboy in elementary school, football, basketball, track and field, marching band, concert band, jazz band, stage band, classrooms, etc.... My primary goal in all of these locations were different, though the wise man always makes learning one of the priorities.
If we didn't figure out how to entertain our various audiences and do so at a high level, we would not have continued the excellent reputation of the Juke with our peers and with the Juke alums and with the university and its alums. In corporate america, the audience is the stockholders. No matter how great my work is and how my peers respect me, if it doesn't please the stockholders, I could be out of there - no longer in a position to perform.

Everyone that I marched with didn't learn all that I learned from what was said and taught in the bandroom and on the band field. All of us didn't have band as a class to get credit. Those on scholarship had the class, but a lot of the band members were not on scholarship, so it wasn't a requirement for them to attend the class. So, though we didn't all learn the same lessons in spite of hearing and seeing some of the same things, we all understood that each week we better perform at our maximum potential or risk being on the sideline next week and/or risk getting popcorn claps instead of roaring applauses and/or soul stirring tears. With some being more gifted than other, it took less for some to get to that level than others. But, you best be at that level, or else.

Peace...
 
JR said:
LB,
Good Post. Excuses are being made today on doing good halftime shows. Bands can still play a popular tune, jazz tune, and do a nice classy dance routine with the current stuff and get some house. The gimmicks is what kills me these days. If I see another fat boy, white boy, fat girls routine I am going to scream. Cheap House is right. All the bands are doing it. I can't remember ever doing that when we played. I mean we had our skits/dance routines. Actually we got house more on the routines with the least amount of dancing like "The Show" by Dougie Fresh. Sure times were different back then. Actually since a lot of bands were bringing it more than they are now, the crowds were even more critical. I noticed that at SU home games. Our crowds expected different drills and dance routines. I was just thinking about all the different drills we did in 85. I also remember doing songs that got the crowd involved like "I need money." Ole Patrick Powell got the crowd going. Alot of the personality is lacking from performances. The energy and enthusiasm is not there. It looks like the kids are not really wanting to be on the field. I don't know. I just think times have changed and the young folks are too laidback. Remember when we were crabs and the horses would say "Bust It" before playing every song. That used to get me hyped up. I have seen some of the practices now in the bandroom and it is too laidback for me. We used to be off the wall. Energy. Repoirtore(sp) Night on Fridays used to prepare us for Saturday. Okay, I am off my soapbox. It is a new era and I have to accept it. I am just glad I came along when we did.

I can't say that I have a problem with what some call gimmicks. If it catches the crowd by a pleasant surprise, it is good entertainment. However, I hate to see a given gimmick over and over. I hate to see other bands copy a gimmick. Band A gets house with a white boy dancing in front of the band. Band B goes and gets a fat white boy to dance in front of it. Band C goes and gets a fat black girl to dance in front of it. Band D goes and gets 4 frat dancers to dance in front of it. Band E gets 4 band members to dress up like 4 fat white gurls to dance in front of it.... I'm like one, get your own ideas that fit your band. Next, don't run a good idea in the ground. For example, as a last minute desperate measure our No. 4 group (when the band divdided into 4 boxes) came up with the ballet, because the other 3 groups beat us to the trigger on our other ideas. What happen, major house. We saw the ballet ending the 4 boxes what, 10 more years... smh... We got stuck in the 4 boxes, when we use to do 4 boxes, 2 boxes, no divide, put horns down, don't put horns down but dance with them, don't take horns away from the mouth the entire routine, 2 drills, 1 drill, dancing dolls, a solo dancer, a solo singer, Dolls and band members dance together, the Sensations (group of singers), a group of dancers (Super 7), rapper(s), end with dance routine, end with a ballet, 10 ten show, gospel show, throwback show, commerative shows, etc... It disappointed me that I didn't see or hear that the Juke didn't have a Luther, Rick James, Barry, etc.. shows. We dedicated a show to Ray Charles and it got major house for Homecoming. We did that and other followed. Now, jokers just want to get in the stands and blow at each other at the same time while the game is going on and no one is paying attention to them. While at halftime, appearing to be going through the motions feeling that all they have to do is complete their show to out do their opponent.

Peace...
 
SUtrp96 said:
Speaking on behalf of the time I marched at SU and those that came after me... SU has had shows where the crowd stood and gave standing ovations.. This was before "the cheap house era took over".....

Example: 1995 "Micheal Jackson Theme" Mad house.. House rival that of that show that is posted.. The WHOLE stadium was singing alone with that entire show, I know this because I was there.

My crab year or any year for that matter, MOST places we went we housed out..MAD house!! And they were classic shows, UP to date music and dance skits..

When EVER Jackson came to BR, check your footage if you didn't follow the Jukebox back then, WE housed out MAD house...House to where we had folk from the 80's standing by the gates like we just won a championship!!

The thing that gets me is SOME old school folk act like the job wasn't getting done after their time are the time they remember.

It ain't no excuses being made, just fact! You all had MUCH better quality up to date music to lay and that was hitting the airing waves.. Rap and hip hop was not as huge as it is today and during my day. That was the change, you trying to compare a time where the crowd was educated by Michael Jackson, Al Jarreau, EWF, Rick James, Prince so on and so forth. Those type artist are not dominating the charts any more thus the CROWD has CHANGED...

SU played "FLY LIKE A BIRD" when hardly anyone knew what it was, that's what TOP notch bands are dealing with these days...

Be fortunate you all marched in a time when the music was really music and the radio played REAL MUSIC. People only want to hear whats on the radio.
I know folk from you all time that understand that, but for some reason most that I see on here is the type that often say (they ain't nothing like us) You have folk like that in every group, good thing I hang around an older group that is a bit open minded then that.. All this they not working hard enough to please the crowd is crazy. Every band out of the 80's didn't drive like 83 or 84.. Even in that 85 clip folk aren't really driving like 83 or 84 was... That right there tells you, the CROWD aren't focused that (I wish they were) They focused on what they know (the music).

If the crowd now want to see a band shake and play the latest rap tunes, you will have a hard time wowing them. I am mainly speaking on (JAG NATION)... You know like I know SU crowd is one of the hardest to please. We usually have no problem pleasing crowds on the road and really don't have a problem pleasing our home corwd...

SU focus on field shows haven't changed since most of you all were in the band and I like that fact.. You all had much more time than we have now a days on the field...

Perfect example: That 85 show. That same show in 97-present would have been CUT. We already know DOC wasn't going to cut no drill... Dance routine was going to be cut, are buddy singing at the end was going to be cut..Which also equates the HOUSE would have been cut. House is supposed to build up.. Now I will say it was DOC that always wanted to come off the field with the fight song in his ( I have nothing to prove time) again be fortunate you all were born agead of time to not have to deal with that. I know Mr.J will change that, that one thing along will change the elevation of house even though very little time is given on the field.
Dance Routines: Are you guys even being open minded to KNOW the jukebox KNOWS the latest dance steps? The crowd no longer want to see those type of dance steps anymore, they only want to see you shake. We had cheorgraphers in our band the has dance studios and being HONEST our latest steps were better than the steps you all were doing.. Again the CROWD changed, thank FAMU for that, for all their countless GOOSHES.... Band brought that to Mumford and Jag Nation hasn't been the same since.

Heck we had many of time we had shows very similar to that show like 85 in MIND, but couldn't do it because of time. Doc did not believe in cutting a drill ( I respect him for that) where I come from the best bands didn't dance no way and we had mad respect from the crowd, because WE EDUCATED the crowd the respect our DRILLS....ALL New Orleans bands stuck to this code though... The year ONE band started dancing in New Orleans, shat changed..

What you are reading aren't excuses it being a realist. To sit here and act like the crowd went crazy because you feel/think you all worked harder than bands after you is being totally biased and not being open minded at all...

You all can sit here and act as if the SAME quality music that was hitting the radio back then that was EFFECTING the crowd back then is the same now, but all you are doing is building up your egos with out even being real about the situation.

It's obvious something is suffering if bands that are marching on the field for 4 to 8 counts and start shaking and are recieving the SAME or MORE amount of house you all recieved and even we recieved some of the time I was in the band.. Difference is I know the band is operating the same and ALWAYS has the same GOAL in mind week to week just as they did years ago.


Do any of you listen to the radio any more? Honestly I barely do, why?

If you do listen you would hear songs like.

Laffy Taffy
Bet you can't do it like me..

The Newest one "It's going Down"
Name some songs that would have had the same effect as "ROCK ME TONIGHT" during this time. That was the type of shat being played OVER and OVER on the radio back then. Wake up people....smh

Some cats take the comparisons totally out of character. The realist look at what the real difference is. A majority of the issue today in the bands not getting the love from the crowd is the energy given by the band on the field. When you perform as though the crowd owes you something, rather than you are out there to overwhelm the crowd, the energy the crowd feels is at two totally differently levels and they respond accordingly. We did not rock the house every time we hit the field, simply because we weren't sent to the field every time with a show to rock the house. However, we probably gave more energy on those nights, because we didn't want to hear the criticsm from our schoolmates in class on Monday. SU students were very critical and did mind expressing it in front of an entire classroom before the professor arrived. However, it doesn't appear that the directors today have a fear of being embarrassed by their opponent. Doc and his peers at JSU, TxSU, TnSU, FAMU, etc.. were attempting to build their reputation on you. AS band members, we wanted to see the defeat in our opponents eyes as we performed on the field and they stood on the sideline. I loved to see them looking over their soldiers was the crowd goes wild for what we are doing on the field.

The Lafy Tafy type songs have to be there and you have to jam them. But, you need stuff that seperates you also. That rap stuff became heavy in the '80's. We complained all the time that we weren't fortunate like the '83 and back bands with real music on the charts. Come on! Back In Stride ain't Boggie Wonderland. "Walkin In The Rain" ain't "Turn Off The Lights". But, we (our directors) used the popular stuff to keep them happy, while mixing in jazz stuff like Jammin' In Manhatten and April In Paris, ole school stuff to us like Get Away or Stevie's "Music" or cool modern songs like "Say LA LA" or Jarreau's "After All".

It is the balance, the creativity, the energy, the fun and the muscianship all coming together to crowd pleasing excellence. It is very hard work, but it is fun and contegious once the results are experienced.

Peace...
 
JR said:
Interesting Post. Well I think most of us who came in 84 to 89 all are Roy fans. The 83 class and on back were Terrel Jackson Sr fans and gave Roy grief all the time. They loved some Bob. Our crab class in 84 was really Roy's first even though he was there in 83. Paul Adams calls Roy the best and most talented he ever taught at SU. I heard that straight from his mouth while standing in JSU's music building next to former JSU director Dowell Taylor who also said Roy was the man and that basically SU at that point was Roy's band. Honestly if things had worked out differently, Doc would have loved to see Roy run the band after him. It was set up that way back then. You are right, Doc didn't have to do much. I am sure he didn't with Roy's LBs L. Jackson and C. Knighten either.

You are also right Doc has had some hella assistants. That speaks volumes for him since he produced them for the most part. The biggest difference in Roy's days at SU is that he could pretty much convince Doc to do anything. Roy had that way about him. In some ways that was good and some ways it was bad. His personality is totally different than Jackson and Knighten. Roy really picked up most of Doc's personality. Plus he had a big ego just like Doc.

From what I have seen over the last 20 years, Jackson and Knighten are not that way. I love Jackson's humility and his overall deameanor. He has the same energy as Roy, but he has that real personable down home attitude. Folks geniunely like Jackson who also had the upmost respect for Doc. Knighten has always been the way he is now. A task master and no nonsense and will crack on you in a minute. Roy respected Doc but controlled the black man like I have never seen anyone else do. Doc loved some Roy. We would ask is Roy Doc's son or something.

Roy was Doc Jr. LOL. In more ways than one. Doc would want to do one thing and Roy another. Roy would pull Doc aside and convince that his idea was really Doc's idea. Next thing we know, we were doing it Roy's way. LOL. We would be like damn that Roy sure knows how to control the black man. I could be wrong but it seemed to me that Jackson and Knighten didn't try to mess with Doc too much in convincing him to do things. Like stay after the games longer. Roy would have had Doc thinking that the other band director called him a punk and the Juke would have been there all night and negros would be still waiting to eat. LOL. Roy had to have a show to showcase himself. Just like Doc used to be and still is in some respect.

I think the combination of Roy, Eric Baskin and Chester White was critical to our success back then. Doc was Doc. Roy and Eric had a big time competition between each other on arranging. I don't know if Lawrence and Carnell try to one up the other like Roy and Eric did. That isht would be comical. Roy would come out and ask us what is this on yall stands. We would say Baskin just passed this out and it was smoking. Roy would go back to his office and arrange 2 tunes and come back with them later on that day or the next. Then Baskin would be back at it with his cool self.

Chester White kept our marching style tight. He was the one who taught us as crabs the SU marching style. You went out to the field with White. LOL. Man that was a beyotch. Ole White would strap up a Bass Drum and march his arse off to show us up. Still trying to figure out what our assistant Toussaint did. LOL. Then of course the black man was still in his 50's back then so he was a mofo on another level. Always pulling out his trumpet trying to show us something. That is another story in itself.

So even though Roy was the man. I have to give credit to all of them collectively. I think this new regime may have a chance to rival or exceed what those cats did. We'll certainly see.

You and Roy88 have said a mouthful. Roy ran the band. When brothers were too out of control, his biggest threat was, "Alright, don't make me send Doc home!" Because, if he sent Doc home, we were going to be out on that field all night. Dolls and all! And, you ran that show from the hole,"one more time for security," 30 times. Stutter step or let him walk by you and you were not playing the entire show, he was calling the individual out and you were running that show again.
 
SUtrp96 said:
That exactly the main point...
Back in the 80s kids and parents JAM the same music.. So it was easier to appeal to almost everybody.. Now it's a mixed crowd and style of music people enjoy....

It's as simple as this:

80s- early 90s
QUALITY R & B - teens,and adults
Jazz - some teens, adults
Hip-Hop -teens and some adults

Mid 90s-2000s
R & B - Adults
Jazz - Adults
Hip Hop - teens and some adults

I'm trying to remember the 90's. That may have been pretty true then. I can't recall. However, today, I can't agree. Everybody is into these hot rappers. Everybody is into Beyonce and Ciara. Again, a lot of time the deck isn't stacked against you as much as you think. I remeber when we took the Back In Stride drill to Jackson. Most of us thought Doc had fallen off his rocker with a wac idea of us having a stickman drill. I be darn, when we started playing Back In Stride part of the song and the stickman appeared to be marching, the crowd went wild. We were like wow. If this is getting house, they are going to be crazy when we are done. But, when look at it, the song was very hot, it was written very well for that band so it was very loud and clear and the stickman marching complimented the concept of the song - HIT. Maybe on another song or later in the year when the song wasn't as hot, perhaps we get booed... Timing is important also.

Peace...
 
PsychoJag said:
I agree with JR and I see where Jared is coming from. I think that the decline in drive was a result of Doc feeling that he had something to prove. My favorite SU band is 85, my church members that were in that 85 band tell me that 74 was the best, some Juke from the 70's say 69 was the best, some of the newer Juke think 95 was the best and so on and so forth. Even in the stands at football games you see a difference from 80's, 90's, and 00's bands. That's just the way it is.

This is why I believe that The Jukebox will be so deadly this year, there's new and younger blood in charge and a man that has alot to prove.

I recall coming down to SU in '83 on a visit with Roy's brother (my HS band director) and Roy told him that '83 was the best band since '74, which I think was my band director's JR. year. He looked really impressed. Roy told him it was because the '83 class was probably the best class as a whole in SU's history. He said every freshman section was strong enough to be the Jukebox. I didn't see '74, but seeing '83 practice and perform a few times I could see how that could have been true.

Times have changed. When is the last time that you can remember the entire Mumford stadium came to its feet when the Juke entered the gates. They watch, but they no longer go into a fanatic state. I'm sure the '70's weren't nearly as wild as we were in the '80's, but wilder than the 90's. However, I know the late 70's and early 80's were far wilder than the middle to late '80s. The wilder the band was the more fun the members and the fans had. Yet, that also meant the more headaches Doc had with the band... :-)

Peace...
 
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