When did the 'STANDS' become more important than the 'FIELD'?

[ZNSPR8502]

I am not the trip you probably think I am. LOL. Like I said we didn't see that side of you guys. I didn't say nothing never happened over there. The band room just seem quiet to us when we would show up. So you guys were some jekyll and hyde types. We were Hyde all the time........except on Saturdays. Doc would be worried about folks coming to visit the BR. He would tell us we act like a pack of wild F'ing animals. Speaking of John Mac. Our whole Mello section was from John Mac. Talk about Gangsta. LOL@ the 5'3 1/2 cat from St. Aug daring the upperclassmen. I bet that was hilarious.

JR, what you are trying to describe just doesn't convey in words. Remember, when Mr. Knigthen would come over, he didn't play that stuff we did. He was very controlled and a lot of the cats didn't like it when he came over. I use to tell ya'll how wild Roy's brother was, but I wasn't sure if he would allow us to be us because he was like Mr. Knighten in being pretty controlled environment. I remember the time USC's director came with us and Roy begged us to be on our BEST behavior... LOL.. Whew! We often said, man we need to be running a tape recorder so we can make a movie out of this. We could make millions. Then, someone would say, yeah, I'm going to write a book on this. Then someone would say you can't write or show this stuff. The public wouldn't understand and would be rollin' heads. All followed by, yeah, you're right!!! Darn! The jam sessions when Doc asked who could solo/improve. And you get the cat on Glamous Life among others performing before the band on the field or even worse in response to band directors playing in front of their band against us in Battle of the Band competitions. Like I said, words just don't translate the energy and fun. I can see it trying to come back last year, because Mr. Jackson is so hyped. I think it is good that we are once again allowed to interact with the current band as the ole' heads did with us.

Peace...

 

[JR]

JR, what you are trying to describe just doesn't convey in words. Remember, when Mr. Knigthen would come over, he didn't play that stuff we did. He was very controlled and a lot of the cats didn't like it when he came over. I use to tell ya'll how wild Roy's brother was, but I wasn't sure if he would allow us to be us because he was like Mr. Knighten in being pretty controlled environment. I remember the time USC's director came with us and Roy begged us to be on our BEST behavior... LOL.. Whew! We often said, man we need to be running a tape recorder so we can make a movie out of this. We could make millions. Then, someone would say, yeah, I'm going to write a book on this. Then someone would say you can't write or show this stuff. The public wouldn't understand and would be rollin' heads. All followed by, yeah, you're right!!! Darn! The jam sessions when Doc asked who could solo/improve. And you get the cat on Glamous Life among others performing before the band on the field or even worse in response to band directors playing in front of their band against us in Battle of the Band competitions. Like I said, words just don't translate the energy and fun. I can see it trying to come back last year, because Mr. Jackson is so hyped. I think it is good that we are once again allowed to interact with the current band as the ole' heads did with us.

Peace...

True LB. Words can not express what I am trying to say. It will just seem like a diss to anyone outside of the era we came through and it isn't meant to be that way. I just don't recall us feeling like that when we would hear how good the 70s bands were or saw them on tape. Of course all of us feel like we played in some nice versions of the Juke and we all handled our business no matter what era. I never would question the dedication and drive of any version of the Juke over the years. That wasn't my intent.

I sincerely believe no matter how good we were in the 80s especially 83 and 85 years that those bands could match those dominant 70s bands. Their energy was even greater than ours. I guess I will just say this and leave it alone. The 70s Jukebox versions would clean out any of the 80s , 90s and 2000s. Aint no doubt in my mind. It wouldn't even be close. Now I just dissed all of us on the board except frat Chicago Jag. LOL. It's all good though.:swink: :tup:

 

[dacontinent]

The comment regarding the role and expectation, we obviously are not going to agree upon. True, I have learned in any and everything that I have ever done - cub scouts, speach and druma club, waterboy in elementary school, football, basketball, track and field, marching band, concert band, jazz band, stage band, classrooms, etc.... My primary goal in all of these locations were different, though the wise man always makes learning one of the priorities.
If we didn't figure out how to entertain our various audiences and do so at a high level, we would not have continued the excellent reputation of the Juke with our peers and with the Juke alums and with the university and its alums. In corporate america, the audience is the stockholders. No matter how great my work is and how my peers respect me, if it doesn't please the stockholders, I could be out of there - no longer in a position to perform.

Everyone that I marched with didn't learn all that I learned from what was said and taught in the bandroom and on the band field. All of us didn't have band as a class to get credit. Those on scholarship had the class, but a lot of the band members were not on scholarship, so it wasn't a requirement for them to attend the class. So, though we didn't all learn the same lessons in spite of hearing and seeing some of the same things, we all understood that each week we better perform at our maximum potential or risk being on the sideline next week and/or risk getting popcorn claps instead of roaring applauses and/or soul stirring tears. With some being more gifted than other, it took less for some to get to that level than others. But, you best be at that level, or else.

Peace...

I understand your points well. You seem to be focused on the great program that the Jukebox is. My purview is how hard we (gross generalization: ALL HBCU's) lean on the HBCU showstyle concept. Here is the definition that was given on another messageboard just yesterday.

...showstyle bands march with a high knee....and are basically crowd pleaser type bands.....they normally have a fanfare ....1 or 2 drill songs (which is when you make formations)....a song for the dancers routine ......a transition piece .....then a KRUNK session where the band plays songs and dances.....then and outro.......thats the basic run down of a showstyle band

Unfortunately, that is basically accurate for our HBCU's and probably 98+% of the shows follow that EXACT format. That EXACT part is what bothers me. We seem to have ascribed to this like it is some magic formula, the elements without which render a crowd something less than entertained. As a spectator, I am insulted. Did Hutch and those cats ask the crowd what they wanted to see and hear? No, they took risks, made innovations, and EDUCATED their audiences.

The acceptance of every form of entertainment involves risk, innovation, and education. Just look at music over the last 40 years: DISCO, METAL, RAP, HIP-HOP, SMOOTH JAZZ, etc. None of them were initially popular, but they found an audience after the artists and marketers did their work.

The common man doesn't really decide what's popular; the machine convinces them that it is right and popularity follows. What I am saying is the tail is wagging the dog and the dog seems to be happy with it; but that is not the way that the dog is designed.

 

[SLT]

The 70s Jukebox versions would clean out any of the 80s , 90s and 2000s. Aint no doubt in my mind. It wouldn't even be close. It's all good though.:swink: :tup:

I would have to agree but just add the Boom where you have Jukebox. :swink:

 

[dacontinent]

...The Lafy Tafy type songs have to be there and you have to jam them.

This is the kind of area where we diverge. Can they be there (in the stands; not on the field)? Sure. Have to be? Not on the life of your program.

...But, you need stuff that seperates you also.

And there we come back together.

That rap stuff became heavy in the '80's. We complained all the time that we weren't fortunate like the '83 and back bands with real music on the charts. Come on! Back In Stride ain't Boggie Wonderland. "Walkin In The Rain" ain't "Turn Off The Lights". But, we (our directors) used the popular stuff to keep them happy, while mixing in jazz stuff like Jammin' In Manhatten and April In Paris, ole school stuff to us like Get Away or Stevie's "Music" or cool modern songs like "Say LA LA" or Jarreau's "After All".

It is the balance, the creativity, the energy, the fun and the muscianship all coming together to crowd pleasing excellence. It is very hard work, but it is fun and contegious once the results are experienced.

Peace...

Rap & Hip-Hop are more popular than they have ever been, but there is a lot more MUSIC out there that is popular. And if we think that Rap/Hip-Hop/R&B/Gospel is all the HBCU audience is listening to, we insult them. Just in what is easily accessible genre there is reggae, COUNTRY, jazz, smooth (bubblegum) jazz, pop and the entire Latin market. The only country song that I have ever heard an HBCU play was I Can't Stop Lovin' You as part of a tribute to Ray Charles. Walk the halls of an HBCU dorm and you will hear Kenny Chesney, Shania Twain, Brooks & Dunn, Carrie Underwood, Toby Keith, and Rascal Flatts at any given hour of the day.

All I am trying to say is that we need to get much further out of the box...MUCH FURTHER.

 

[s phi s]

Interesting conversation. Sorry I have to close this thread. Feel free to start a part 2.