SWAC Basketball -- How Bad Can It Get?


Mr. Tiger

Mr. Tiger

Mr. T
As football season comes to a close, Mr. Tiger turns his attention to SWAC men's basketball and I am VERY unhappy with what I'm watching.

While we have made positive moves to improve our football programs, baseball programs, and women's basketball, our men's basketball programs are getting worse.

While we fire our football coaches who don't achieve, we appear to hold our men's basketball programs to a lower standard. We NEED to do better.

I won't bring up some of the losses and turn this into a smackfest and I know we have discussed this before and Texas Terror will be here posting soon, but it is time for some action.

I don't expect national titles, final fours, or even sweet 16s. But I do expect our schools to beat the Tougaloos and Paul Quinns of the world. I do expect us to score more than 30 points in a game. I do expect us to hold teams to less than 115 points. If we can't do that we have MAJOR problems.

Outside of spending more money, which is something ADs can't control, what needs to be done to help improve our programs?
 
Mr. Tiger said:
As football season comes to a close, Mr. Tiger turns his attention to SWAC men's basketball and I am VERY unhappy with what I'm watching.

While we have made positive moves to improve our football programs, baseball programs, and women's basketball, our men's basketball programs are getting worse.

While we fire our football coaches who don't achieve, we appear to hold our men's basketball programs to a lower standard. We NEED to do better.

I won't bring up some of the losses and turn this into a smackfest and I know we have discussed this before and Texas Terror will be here posting soon, but it is time for some action.

I don't expect national titles, final fours, or even sweet 16s. But I do expect our schools to beat the Tougaloos and Paul Quinns of the world. I do expect us to score more than 30 points in a game. I do expect us to hold teams to less than 115 points. If we can't do that we have MAJOR problems.

Outside of spending more money, which is something ADs can't control, what needs to be done to help improve our programs?
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Sh*t, let TexasTerror come! Hell, he's telling the truth! :mad: He's not smacking! He's speaking TRUTH! Not that he cannot smack during certain times because he can. lol I had to separate truth from fiction and STOP pretending that things, even about us, were okay. They were (past tense) not. :|

Yes, you're 101% correct. :| Our men's programmes are PITIFUL! From TOP to BOTTOM, we're BAD! TERRIBLE. Hell, outside of AlaSU, I don't see another front-runner in the men's division. :retard:
 



I don't understand what's the problem. The SWAC has had some very good programs. Dave Whitney and Alcorn, Moreland and TSU, Jobe and SU, Stogling and JSU, and Stribling and MVSU. These were programs that on any given night could beat any mid-major and play with anyone. I don't know why we are not bringing in the talent like we used to. We need to turn this around quickly before this bad dream turns into a nightmare.
 
Panthro said:
Sh*t, let TexasTerror come! Hell, he's telling the truth! :mad: He's not smacking! He's speaking TRUTH! Not that he cannot smack during certain times because he can. lol I had to separate truth from fiction and STOP pretending that things, even about us, were okay. They were (past tense) not. :|

Yes, you're 101% correct. :| Our men's programmes are PITIFUL! From TOP to BOTTOM, we're BAD! TERRIBLE. Hell, outside of AlaSU, I don't see another front-runner in the men's division. :retard:
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Don't hold anything back Panthro. :lmao: Alabama State might be the best of the worse like Jackson State was the best of the worse last year. It is getting so bad that I'm about to turn my attention to football recruiting and baseball after the SWAC Championship Game. :smh: If one of our football coaches losses to Paul Quinn, we would all be saying that coach needs to be fired. Yet, we are losing to teams like that in basketball and no one says a word.
 
Mr. Tiger said:
Don't hold anything back Panthro. :lmao: Alabama State might be the best of the worse like Jackson State was the best of the worse last year. It is getting so bad that I'm about to turn my attention to football recruiting and baseball after the SWAC Championship Game. :smh: If one of our football coaches losses to Paul Quinn, we would all be saying that coach needs to be fired. Yet, we are losing to teams like that in basketball and no one says a word.
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I think you need to name names. You can only shame the devil...:lmao:
 
Mr. Tiger said:
Don't hold anything back Panthro. :lmao: Alabama State might be the best of the worse like Jackson State was the best of the worse last year. It is getting so bad that I'm about to turn my attention to football recruiting and baseball after the SWAC Championship Game. :smh: If one of our football coaches losses to Paul Quinn, we would all be saying that coach needs to be fired. Yet, we are losing to teams like that in basketball and no one says a word.
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Well Mr. Tiger, I'm not sure who you are talking about but Alcorn lost to Tougaloo. Which to me is the lowest you can get. I understand Stribling is there and all but that is just sad. But when you have administration in the SWAC that does not know the potential in athletics you get to this point. West wish he was mediocre. Sad case though man.

Until some of our leadership take a different approach we are going to look the way we are and produce mess.
 
........yes,that was SAD,and they will lose to SUNO tomorrow night.You are right,when you have an admin that don't give a damn about the sports side these things will happen.I hope thats about to come to an end at Alcorn.


ASU2002...did you listen to the game....was I right that this along with the SUNO are exhibition games that they didn't play at the start of the season.

I see T.Jack played last night.
 
Mr. Tiger said:
I won't bring up some of the losses and turn this into a smackfest and I know we have discussed this before and Texas Terror will be here posting soon, but it is time for some action.
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TexasTerror would be up in here before you can say "Nobody gives a damn about FCS Playoffs". :lol:
 
Should I wait a little longer...?

I'm curious what happened to Alcorn State. They played the Kats very tight two years ago in Huntsville (Panthro would've had to revive me at the end of that one, if the Willis, Texas product was available) and gave SHSU some problems last year as well. How do you lose to Tougaloo? Has the Braves program dropped that much?

Another thought, why is a SWAC squad traveling to an NAIA for basketball? Saw Grambling competed against Langston and Xavier at XULA in women's hoops. What kind of scheduling is that? Xavier is a tough team, that has and will beat NCAA Div I schools in women's hoops. Awful scheduling. They press like crazy and keep on you like no other team I've seen!

I have not seen any SWAC teams play thus far this year in person, saw a game or two on TV. Outside of the TxSo surprise of A&M-CC, the SLC has gone undefeated in men's hoops. SHSU plays TxSo next week. Any audio going to be available for that one?
 
purplerush said:
........yes,that was SAD,and they will lose to SUNO tomorrow night.You are right,when you have an admin that don't give a damn about the sports side these things will happen.I hope thats about to come to an end at Alcorn.


ASU2002...did you listen to the game....was I right that this along with the SUNO are exhibition games that they didn't play at the start of the season.

I see T.Jack played last night.
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Naw man. I'm glad I didn't. West should resign before tomorrow's game.
 
We will be in a play in game this year again.

The MEAC has some impressive wins and hung with some tough teams in their losses.

The SWAC has got to do BETTER!!!!
 
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkc0708.htm

The Saragin ratings show how bad it is. I expect the Independents to pass us any moment now. :smh:

1 PACIFIC-10 = 84.08 83.53 ( 2) 10
2 ATLANTIC COAST = 83.37 84.28 ( 1) 12
3 BIG EAST = 82.25 81.85 ( 5) 16
4 SOUTHEASTERN = 82.10 82.24 ( 3) 12
5 BIG 12 = 81.84 82.22 ( 4) 12
6 BIG TEN = 81.11 80.68 ( 6) 11
7 MISSOURI VALLEY = 79.12 78.76 ( 7) 10
8 MOUNTAIN WEST = 78.07 78.17 ( 8) 9
9 ATLANTIC 10 = 77.07 76.75 ( 9) 14
10 HORIZON = 74.37 75.11 ( 10) 10
11 WEST COAST = 74.31 74.75 ( 11) 8
12 MID-AMERICAN = 74.05 74.20 ( 13) 12
13 COLONIAL = 74.04 73.85 ( 14) 12
14 CONFERENCE USA = 73.77 74.29 ( 12) 12
15 WESTERN ATHLETIC = 72.49 71.86 ( 16) 9
16 BIG WEST = 72.24 71.89 ( 15) 9
17 METRO ATLANTIC = 70.41 70.17 ( 19) 10
18 SUN BELT = 70.30 70.62 ( 17) 13
19 SOUTHERN = 70.15 70.21 ( 18) 11
20 BIG SKY = 70.00 69.84 ( 20) 9
21 SUMMIT LEAGUE = 69.41 69.54 ( 21) 10
22 SOUTHLAND = 68.88 69.20 ( 23) 12
23 IVY LEAGUE = 68.71 68.73 ( 24) 8
24 PATRIOT = 68.57 69.29 ( 22) 8
25 AMERICA EAST = 67.97 67.95 ( 26) 9
26 BIG SOUTH = 67.45 68.01 ( 25) 8
27 NORTHEAST = 67.13 67.12 ( 27) 11
28 OHIO VALLEY = 66.55 66.36 ( 28) 11
29 ATLANTIC SUN = 64.44 64.38 ( 29) 12
30 MID-EASTERN = 63.22 63.87 ( 30) 12
31 SOUTHWESTERN = 61.36 61.28 ( 31) 10
32 INDEPENDENTS = 59.14 59.89 ( 32) 9
 



This is my personal opinion;

As far as resources and money, we don't really stack up to most Div. I schools. That is just fact, like it or not. But back in the day, we had coaches that had thier own mind. Coaches like Ben Jobe, Stewart, Sibling. The SWAC had thier own style of basketball and was not trying to compromise to look like everyone else. I strongly feel that that run and gun style of ball attracted players that wanted to play like that, better players than we would have normally got, that style was the recruiting edge we had over other programs that more resources. For instance, at Southern during the Stewart/Jobe years, if you were a 2 guard, you knew you could be in the top 10 in the nation in scoring, all you had to do was make your shots, because you were sure to get them. Anyone in the top 10 in scoring, is gonna get a good look by the pros, if you were a Power forward, you would have a chance to be in the top 10 in rebounding and if you were a point guard, top 10 in assists. Why go play for some white school walking the ball up the court, when I can come here and really play my game.

Now, we (the SWAC) has succum to peer pressure and we play just like them white schools now, this isht ain't swac basketball. Back then, many said, "We ain't gonna win no games in the tournament playing this SWAC basketball", well the 1 game we won we did it playing that old school SWAC ball. Does it look like we any close now with this mess we do now instead. Let me answer that, "HELL TO THE NO". And we ain't getting the athletes either.

In addition, our fans don't wanna see that crap. They done showed us by game attendance. With 10 games on TV every nite, they ain't gotta come out to see run-of-the-mill basketball. If we want to get them, we better crankit back up. We could wait to see if Bobby Phils was gonna get 30 points tonight, to see them 3 points raining down on some opponent, to see of they were gonna bust the clock again, to see kevin Flourent do another monster dunk straight over someone, to see Avery do his magic. I would rather lose 120-105 than to lose 65-33.

I feel the style of ball we used to play attracted a higher level of player.
 
coaching and talent.

let's take for example rob spivery. he can coach defense with the best of them. he can put a match up zone on you that makes u think they've got "orange" (syracuse) written on their chest. On the otherhand his teams have NEVER been able to score the basketball (bama state lost to minnisota by almost 90 one year). bama state fans know what I'm talking about. yes, he beat smu but the next night they lost to paul quinn. bama state fans were like.. yep, that's a rob spivery team alright. give him good bigs and he'll beat u down.... oh, but he can't recruit good consistantly(honore' looks like a beast and but he'll need help and davis looks like he's a ways away from being a steady player on the blocks).

now...jackson @ bama state can recruit his butt off. they will be at the top of the swac this season on talent alone, but the coaching staff is not very experienced. they r all young guys and none w/ hc experience previously. I believe they lost to auburn b/c they are inexperienced as a group. the more exp their coaches get, along with their ability to recruit....they're aren't close to their ceiling over there.

pettaway can coach....but his team is too young.

wright at grambling... wasn't able to win when they had the best talent in the coference.

and west...at alcorn. sad. he had his best most exp team last year... and wasn't close to winning the conference. I don't like calling for people to lose their jobs (he and the assistant coaches have got mouths to feed) by ghhaaa leeee! toogaloo? suno? mississippi college cafateria staff? that team has no chemistry. I just wonder who the next hc on the reservation will be and can they get the 7 footer in pg.

uapb...who can tell! they've played a tough schedule w/ almost no winnable games ( part of why the conference rpi is always rotten, most of us do too much of that). I thought a lot of the win of la tech until la tech got beat with a hammer down in lubbuck by texas tech. they've got at least 2 good players in bird and that guard from mississippi.

greene at valley. I think he can coach but w/o good facilities and with a small budget it would take a lot of magic.

alcorn... deplorable....(wave of disgust hit me and I just had to say it again)

and at least pvamu has got size galore and can pose match up problems in the swac... even played tennessee tough and if not for all those foul shots tennessee took.....

one man's opinion
 
TexasTerror said:
Should I wait a little longer...?

I'm curious what happened to Alcorn State. They played the Kats very tight two years ago in Huntsville (Panthro would've had to revive me at the end of that one, if the Willis, Texas product was available) and gave SHSU some problems last year as well. How do you lose to Tougaloo? Has the Braves program dropped that much?

Another thought, why is a SWAC squad traveling to an NAIA for basketball? Saw Grambling competed against Langston and Xavier at XULA in women's hoops. What kind of scheduling is that? Xavier is a tough team, that has and will beat NCAA Div I schools in women's hoops. Awful scheduling. They press like crazy and keep on you like no other team I've seen!

I have not seen any SWAC teams play thus far this year in person, saw a game or two on TV. Outside of the TxSo surprise of A&M-CC, the SLC has gone undefeated in men's hoops. SHSU plays TxSo next week. Any audio going to be available for that one?
Click to expand...

There's my favorite BearKat! TT? Do you have those stats for head-to-head competition <b>to-date</b> of SWAC vs Southland conference in all sports and then only basketball M&W?

Watch this. Wanna' know how bad we are, as a whole, watch this. :| TSU held up the banner vs a GOOD A&M C-C squad. Other than that, that's all she wrote! :smh:
 
Lewis said:
This is my personal opinion;

As far as resources and money, we don't really stack up to most Div. I schools. That is just fact, like it or not. But back in the day, we had coaches that had thier own mind. Coaches like Ben Jobe, Stewart, Sibling. The SWAC had thier own style of basketball and was not trying to compromise to look like everyone else. I strongly feel that that run and gun style of ball attracted players that wanted to play like that, better players than we would have normally got, that style was the recruiting edge we had over other programs that more resources. For instance, at Southern during the Stewart/Jobe years, if you were a 2 guard, you knew you could be in the top 10 in the nation in scoring, all you had to do was make your shots, because you were sure to get them. Anyone in the top 10 in scoring, is gonna get a good look by the pros, if you were a Power forward, you would have a chance to be in the top 10 in rebounding and if you were a point guard, top 10 in assists. Why go play for some white school walking the ball up the court, when I can come here and really play my game.

Now, we (the SWAC) has succum to peer pressure and we play just like them white schools now, this isht ain't swac basketball. Back then, many said, "We ain't gonna win no games in the tournament playing this SWAC basketball", well the 1 game we won we did it playing that old school SWAC ball. Does it look like we any close now with this mess we do now instead. Let me answer that, "HELL TO THE NO". And we ain't getting the athletes either.

In addition, our fans don't wanna see that crap. They done showed us by game attendance. With 10 games on TV every nite, they ain't gotta come out to see run-of-the-mill basketball. If we want to get them, we better crankit back up. We could wait to see if Bobby Phils was gonna get 30 points tonight, to see them 3 points raining down on some opponent, to see of they were gonna bust the clock again, to see kevin Flourent do another monster dunk straight over someone, to see Avery do his magic. I would rather lose 120-105 than to lose 65-33.

I feel the style of ball we used to play attracted a higher level of player.
Click to expand...

Good Post........I totally agree!
 
JROCK said:
Lewis said:
This is my personal opinion;

As far as resources and money, we don't really stack up to most Div. I schools. That is just fact, like it or not. But back in the day, we had coaches that had thier own mind. Coaches like Ben Jobe, Stewart, Sibling. The SWAC had thier own style of basketball and was not trying to compromise to look like everyone else. I strongly feel that that run and gun style of ball attracted players that wanted to play like that, better players than we would have normally got, that style was the recruiting edge we had over other programs that more resources. For instance, at Southern during the Stewart/Jobe years, if you were a 2 guard, you knew you could be in the top 10 in the nation in scoring, all you had to do was make your shots, because you were sure to get them. Anyone in the top 10 in scoring, is gonna get a good look by the pros, if you were a Power forward, you would have a chance to be in the top 10 in rebounding and if you were a point guard, top 10 in assists. Why go play for some white school walking the ball up the court, when I can come here and really play my game.

Now, we (the SWAC) has succum to peer pressure and we play just like them white schools now, this isht ain't swac basketball. Back then, many said, "We ain't gonna win no games in the tournament playing this SWAC basketball", well the 1 game we won we did it playing that old school SWAC ball. Does it look like we any close now with this mess we do now instead. Let me answer that, "HELL TO THE NO". And we ain't getting the athletes either.

In addition, our fans don't wanna see that crap. They done showed us by game attendance. With 10 games on TV every nite, they ain't gotta come out to see run-of-the-mill basketball. If we want to get them, we better crankit back up. We could wait to see if Bobby Phils was gonna get 30 points tonight, to see them 3 points raining down on some opponent, to see of they were gonna bust the clock again, to see kevin Flourent do another monster dunk straight over someone, to see Avery do his magic. I would rather lose 120-105 than to lose 65-33.

I feel the style of ball we used to play attracted a higher level of player.
Click to expand...
Good Post........I totally agree!
Click to expand...

I too agree. Speaking of the higher level of players, I wonder if a Lindsey Hunter, Avery Johnson, Purvis Short and others would want to play the kind of basketball the SWAC has now. I seriously doubt it.
 
Mr. Tiger - thanks for starting this topic.

This is a woeful year in SWAC hoops. I like our OOC schedule, it a good mixture of games to give you confidence, mid majors and a couple of big conference games SEC and Big East. I lost some hope when we lost to Auburn, a game that I feel we should have won. We will see how things go through the rest of the OOC season.

I also had high expectations for JSU and SU. Hopefully both will get things on track.

Maybe JSU is about to turn it around:

Jackson St 38
TX-Pan American 36

Half
 
Panthro said:
There's my favorite BearKat! TT? Do you have those stats for head-to-head competition <b>to-date</b> of SWAC vs Southland conference in all sports and then only basketball M&W?

Watch this. Wanna' know how bad we are, as a whole, watch this. :| TSU held up the banner vs a GOOD A&M C-C squad. Other than that, that's all she wrote! :smh:
Click to expand...

Only because you asked...

This year...
WSoc - 10-3-1
VB - SLC 24-0
WBB - SLC 5-2
MBB - SLC 6-1

Throw in the bat and ball sports from last year...
Base - SLC 29-3
Soft - SLC 38-2

Altogether...

SLC 112-11-1 -- SLC has a .915 winning percentage in all contests against the SWAC -- not including tennis.
 
Does SWAC schools even get payouts for these beat downs? I hope we are getting some kind of cheese. If not then it is not worth traveling cross country to get our heads banged in.
 
before TT makes it seem like the SLC dominates just because who they are...your going to dominate in alot of olympic sports as you can recruit whites, hispanics and blacks with relative ease...in most cases, the SLC says to hell with getting blacks and concentrates solely on whites in sports like baseball, etc...in hoops...SHSU has Ryan Bright...a 6-6 white kid from Deer Park who isn't Big 12 material night-in and night-out but can play at a mid-major...

Let a SWAC school recruit Bright he turns his head as he may think SHSU is better than them but that same white kid would run in an instant to play for UT or A&M

It's a matter of funding when its all said and done as a SLC school like Texas State has somewhere near 20K students and a SHSU has 12K...which is mor e than any SWAC school....they have the advantages just on student service fees alone...

It's getting better but the gap has been bad for quite some time...

as for hoops....blacks sold themselves out for hoops years ago when they started taking payoffs........before AAU, SWAC hoops still had pockets of talent to recruit from but AAU opened those pockets overnight and let too many people in on the act
 
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