Should Frats/Sors be forced to integrate at PWCs/HBCUs?


Should ALL fraternities/sororities

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 21.1%

  • No

    Votes: 15 78.9%
  • Total voters
    19
Bartram

Bartram

Brand HBCUbian
:confused: This issue really puzzles me. There is an increasing story about the University of Alabama (of coarse given the history here,, but,,) Does any one from either race or universities really want to join the other race's fraternities and sororities? There may be some, but I think the outliers are trickling into both black and white fraternities/sororities. Further, should the fraternities and sororities have quotas or a mandate imposed to comply with an integration mandate?

Somebody help me out here; maybe I'm missing something.
 
This is a subject that we Black students addressed at the University of Alabama back in 1970. And we came to the conclusion that it did not make sense to force the frats and soro's to intergrate. At that time there were no Black frat or soro on campus, because the Black students (and there were only 200 of us) did not want them.

We asked the question:

WHY ON GOD GREEN EARTH WOULD A BLACK STUDENT WANT TO JOIN A WHITE FRATERNITY OR SORORITY ANYWAY???

So to answer you questions, HELL NO!!!
 

Originally posted by TSU/BAMA


We asked the question:

WHY ON GOD GREEN EARTH WOULD A BLACK STUDENT WANT TO JOIN A WHITE FRATERNITY OR SORORITY ANYWAY???

So to answer you questions, HELL NO!!!
Click to expand...

That should not be the question. The question should not have anything to do with color but with the option to join a organization based on choice. If that is someones choice, who are we or anyone else authorized to say HELL NO.

If you continue to use that analogy, you can based that for everything in life.
Why would a black student want to go to a white school?
Why would a black man want to work for a white company?
and so on.......it begat a un-ending circle of strife. INstead of pulling everyone together, it further separates us. :( :(
 
"Should Frats/Sors be forced to integrate at PWCs/HBCUs?"

NO!!!

One of the primary reasons why BGLOs were created was because "we" were not allowed to join those organizations that were already established.

"Black Greek Life" and "white Greek life" is almost like night and day to me. Personally don't see the benefits of joining one of the "other" fraternities.
I think it's wrong to "force" integration in this sense. My question is this: why in da hell would you want to be a part of a "social organization" that doesn't want YOU???? This isn't like a job or a career where you HAVE to make a come up. This is something totally different, and not even a NECESSITY....it's a PREFERENCE!

For them to base the need to integrate the organizations because the numbers of one ethnic group is inexistent should be examined more carefully. Blacks don't join their groups because they DON'T WANT TO. Throughout the 90's, the Kappa Alpha chapter of A Phi A has basically been runnin' U of A; SGA Presidents....highest GPA....most community service, etc. The brothas and sistas there aren't dumb...they know who does what, and how.

This whole mess was started because some ol saddity black chick didn't want to join a black sorority, but got rejected by all the white ones, then started beeyotching about it!:rolleyes:
Too dayum bad!:D :p
 
I'm with Ntel!

People shouldn't be forced to allow others into their circles. That was and still is the problem with the masses of Black People, we want to force ourselves on people who have shown time and time again that they do not want to have anything to do with us. What we should be focusing on is DOING FOR SELF!

WE SHOULDN'T BE BREAKING DOWN ANYONE ELSE'S DOORS, WE SHOULD BE BUILDING OUR OWN!

GOD BLESS THE CHILD THAT'S GOT HIS OWN!
 
Ditto to Ntel's and AD's comments. When I first read that story, my first question was "what did this young lady think she would accomplish?" On the flip side of the issue, whites are more apt to pursue, AND GAIN membership into one of the NPHC organizations than the other way around. When I was a student at AAMU, there was this white guy who wanted to pledge Alpha BAAAAAAD at UA (the same chapter that Ntel made reference to.) He never had the grades. Any party or social function that the brothers from Delta Gamma Chapter attended of the brothers at UA, this kid was there. He never made it, but he also didn't file a lawsuit. What many people tend to forget is that when it comes to social societies, greek-lettered organizations, etc. you are guaranteed membership by anyone. The final decision on who does and does not "get in" rest solely upon the membership of the prospective organization. Many may not like it, but that's the way it should be.
 
UA and Auburn both have some white Sigmas. I saw em at this party we went to after the AU vs UA game.
 
Unknown:

UA had white Sigmas back in the early 90's, too. Auburn had a white Alpha back then, also (he was cool as hell, and could step his azz off! :D)

Now that I think about it...:idea:
the Sigmas on Da Hill initiated their first white member this past spring.
 
Umm......I was contributing to the thread. Last time I checked I wasn't here for your approval.:idea:
 
I remember Auburn having a white Alpha. He had his stuff together! He was the show dog as a matter of fact. The Auburn Alphas won a lot of stepshows when he was there.

Anyway, the point is there is a difference when an organization accepts a member without predjudice than an organization being forced to integrate. I think this ideal will blow up in the University of Alabama's face. As for the girl who tried to get in the white sorority, what the "L" was she thinking????
 
Originally posted by Fiyah


That should not be the question. The question should not have anything to do with color but with the option to join a organization based on choice. If that is someones choice, who are we or anyone else authorized to say HELL NO.

If you continue to use that analogy, you can based that for everything in life.
Why would a black student want to go to a white school?
Why would a black man want to work for a white company?
and so on.......it begat a un-ending circle of strife. INstead of pulling everyone together, it further separates us. :( :(
Click to expand...

You makes some good points Fiyah, but I think you and I are talking about two different things. If you have not already, read Ntelekt's post in this thread (7-24-01 08:14 am). Ntelekt said exactly what we were thinking back in the 70's.
 
TSU/Bama, Fiyah, et al.

TSU/Bama, Ntelek,, etc,,, THANK YOU.

Fiyah, I believe there is a place where you draw the line. Some things get a bit ridiculous. Going to the macro-level on "making all things fair" (i.e., we must see to it that all frats/soros, black & white, reflect our society.) definitely ranks as one of them.

This is a tuff call, but I think frats/soros should be given latitude to manage themselves on an issue like this. As someone said, I see this TOTALLY as a liesure pursuit that you don't need for survival or something. People should be able to join any frat/soro they want, but I am against FORCING ALL frats/soros to have quotas fundamentally. Also, I just don't see people on either side of the fence being very passionate about forcing this issue, so why is it being bantered about??!!!! It's ludacris!(spelling)

:confused:
 

And Another thing on this Issue; Media focus.

One of the main reasons this story has been getting substantial press is because of the venue; University of Alabama and it's (and the state of Alabama's) history on the race issue. This is a very juicy target for the mainstream media drawing all the comparisons between "segregated" frats/soros and the images of the UofA/George Wallace from the 60s.

I think this kind of story plays well outside the south especially.
 
There have been very good points made.

To me the real issue about the Civil Rights movement was and should have always been about equality, not integration. When integration became the issue over equality, our people lost in some areas (Black business districts, closing of Black high schools, funding of HBCUs, etc.) instead of gained.

BTW Vanderbilt had this controversy many years ago. What is the status of fraternities and sororities there?
 
And Another Thing EB,,,

What happens is disgruntled whites and their political representatives go after stuff like this simply in an attempt to "get back at" blacks for what they feel was "forcing" them to let blacks in to their worlds. This is a common theme among conservatives to turn the tables as it were. (although I would say that this instance may be influenced by left-wing liberal groups also) In this case I believe both sides are fine with the system as it is and don't need or want mandates. I have no problem with this as it is not anything critical to basic rights and freedoms.
 
People,

Is legitimate to say, "Black Fraternity or Black Sorority." Did the founders of A Phi A, Deltas, AKAs, Sigmas etc specify that the Frat or Sorority would be ONLY for Black people? If not who voted somewhere along the way for this to become reality? Where did the idea of Black Fraternity or White Fratenity come from. If your answer is, "Well, it's not the organization's History but 99.9% of members are black so why would would white folks want in!?," is that really a good enough reason to want to keep white people out who could add on to the organization. I thought that turning people away simply because of the color of their skin was something that only ignorant white people did. PROVE ME WRONG PEOPLE, PROVE ME WRONG!!!

No one should be made to let someone in their group because of their skin color and no one should be looked at funny because they joined an organization that you wouldn't have. In some situations, your organization didn't want them so don't look crazy when they go somewhere else.

,
nevaehinvesting
 
I sure wished I lived in a world of peaches and cream.

I sure wished I lived in a world with a balance society.

I sure wished I lived in a world where the roads are paved with gold.

Until Black Folks are treated as equals, I say NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

Maybe some of us don't live in the same world.

I have experienced a lot of Black Folks who's bubble was busted and they just could not understand what happened. They were seeking answers. Some even returned to the Black Church.


Until some of the fundamental issues are resolve, I vote NO!!!!
 
Originally posted by nevaehinvesting
People,

Is legitimate to say, "Black Fraternity or Black Sorority." Did the founders of A Phi A, Deltas, AKAs, Sigmas etc specify that the Frat or Sorority would be ONLY for Black people?
Click to expand...

In some of the organizations...YES!!! At least it was in the inception periods.

why???? Because we had no choice. The only way for us to be a part of something like that was to obtain the FUBU attitude...FOR US, BY US!
One of the major reasons why our fraternity was created was to enable collegiate men to interact with each other on Cornell's campus(a white campus) in a more intimate, communal way. They were NOT allowed in ANY white organizations. Our Founders felt the need to create their OWN organization that THEY could become a part of. Contrary to what you may want to think, whites on the campus were NOT interested in joining Alpha!
The organizations founded on Howard's Campus didn't exactly have this 'black/white' problem. At any rate, we already had our BETA chapter established at Howard before the other BGLO's came into existence.

Eventually, the decision was made to integrate the fraternity....

What *I* want to know is where did anyone on here say that it was okay to turn someone away just because of their skin color?????

You said:

"No one should be made to let someone in their group because of their skin color and no one should be looked at funny because they joined an organization that you wouldn't have."

Most of us on here agree with this, so why are you ranting and raving?

The frat/soror thing is waaaaay different than other cases, so pleeeeeze don't talk about civil rights here. Most of "us" would rather be in "our" greek-lettered organizations. PREFERENCE is the basis for it.
 
Hey nevae, I understand the racial, but

Let's break it up into smaller parts here:

Quid pro quo, do you think sororities and fraternities at all colleges should be forced to meet mandates in terms of their ethnic diversity? :xeye:
 
bartram to nevaeh:
Quid pro quo, do you think sororities and fraternities at all colleges should be forced to meet mandates in terms of their
Click to expand...

nevaehinvesting
No one should be made to let someone in their group because of their skin color and no one should be looked at funny
Click to expand...

ntelekt
What *I* want to know is where did anyone on here say that it was okay to turn someone away just because of their skin
Click to expand...

No one will actually say it but....
I've had the pleasure of being around people in different organizations and I can tell you that A LOT do not want white people in their groups. They still today have the "FUBU" attitude, even TODAY! As a matter of fact, I'm sure you're not ignorant to the fact that a lot of our groups discriminate against our own people for different reasons (light skin - dark skin, friends, etc) so there is definitely potential to do this to white folks. That's all I was saying. Discrimination is present but I don't really think that 'making' groups meet quotas is the answer. I do, however, see where the idea came from.

I realize that the question was simple: Do you think that they should be forced to integrate? My short answer is no, but it's hard to answer that question with out going deeper into the 'issues' races have with eachother and the "FUBU" attitudes that were needed then, and prefered by some now.

,
nevaehinvesting
 
Okay...I'm feelin' you a little better now. :)


But think about...why was the FUBU attitude adopted anywy???

BECAUSE WE HAD NO DAYUM CHOICE BUT TO ADOPT IT!!!

"Black organizations were created because we were NOT allowed to join "regular" ones (which were all white)...

HBCU's were founded because we weren't given the opportunity to be educated at "other" institutions.

The FIRST BGLO was founded because the black students were NOT accepted or allowed to participate in any clubs, study groups, fraternities, debate teams, etc....

So, in a sense...it can be looked upon as "The hate that hate created."
Is this good?...not really.
Is this justified....maybe so.;)

Look at it from the playground aspect:

Suzy and nem won't let you and Jon-Jon play their game with them.
You and Jon-Jon say "fuhgit them" and make up your OWN game, which turned out to be a more enjoyable thing.
The ONLY reason y'all created your own game was because y'all were FORCED to (that is...if you wanted to partake in some "fun" for yourselves;))
Suzy n Nem are havin' fun....you and yours are havin' just as much fun.

Now all of a sudden, Mrs. Baubricker comes outside and tells Suzy n them that they HAVE to let y'all play with them? "What for?" y'all think...especially since y'all like it better doin' your OWN thing.
If Mrs. Baubricker wanted to be "helpful", she shoulda regulated waaaay back before you and Jon-Jon had no choice but to act on your own.:)

I can flow on, but I'll stop there....:D
 
But nevae, I don't think it should have gotten this far.

It seems to me that people, the media, etc are really reaching to make a big deal out of this. I don't think there a serious racial issue here. It's like music preference; whites generally have theirs and blacks generally have ours. Same with soro/frats; we generally prefer our various orgs that are black or white. I don't know of masses of people/students black or white who are complaining about not being able to be in each others frats/soros.

All I hear are media types who keep raising the issue at the University of ALABAMA and that's only because of the Univ of ALABAMA'S and this state's track record/past on race relations. Well heck,,,, really and truely, if they are so concerned, they could really have a field day at HBCUs because personnally I think we are as tuff if not tuffer on frat/soro integration than white orgs at PWCs. Why aren't they singling out an HBCU and making a big issue of this?!

It's all a bunch of PC bullcrap. Lastly, are there any blacks out there who REALLY want to be in Kappa Alpha fraternity at a PWC esp. in the south???????? I mean,,, if I remember correctly, this is the fraternity at Auburn that used to have "Old South Day" (back in the late 70s and early 80s. it has since been discontinued) where they'd dress up in confederate/1860s garb with their southern bells, their civil war cannons out in front of that big antebellum houst that used to be across from Auburn's campus,,,,, and WITH BLACKS DRESS UP AS SLAVES/NANNIES!!! Have they had a black inductee and if so why would a black want to be a part of that organization?
 
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