JagHammer
Senior Troll
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Pay Tithes or Get Shot- Creflo Dollar
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dacontinent
Preacher
You didn't really mean that...did you?
name another one.
and while you're doing that, find me a Levitical priest to give my tithe to.
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SleepyCrat
Well-Known Member
That's what scary about this. This guy is teaching this thing like it's a law or something you should feel guilty about if you don't do. There is no moral obligation to tithing. The true reason for tithing as Christians is way simpler.
Peace and Practice
XHALE9802
GRANDEUR...
It is said in Genesis even before the word tithe was mentioned that Abraham(or he was still listed as Abram) gave God a tenth of everything. I don't think the actual word tithe was used until Leviticus(if i'm wrong I stand corrected) where it says tithe land and every tenth animal. I personally believe tithe means tenth.
Tony, it was done in Genesis, that would mean it was before the mosaic law. Also the tree that Eve ate from, has been associated with the tenth that we were not supposed to touch.
These are only what i've come to understand in my own learnings though. I have tested God(as He said do so in Malachi) on His word about tithing, when I don't I do come up short, when I do the money is flowing like milk and honey. :lol:
I'll make some brief points
was there a law to "tithe" in Gensis?
under the Mosaic Law who was the "tithe" to be given to?
and was it money? You know the gold and silver shuckles they had back then.
In the New testament God speaks about how you should give to the church.
What do you think about what He said?
when something is fullfilled does it keep going on? Jesus said he came to fulfill the law.
why out of the hundreds and hundreds of Old Testaments laws
do "preachers" today only harp on "tithing"?
do you wear pants, make-up, have you ever cut your hair..uhoh!
and lastly if you're only giving money, to some entity(probably not a Levical Priest) then it's
no way, you could even be copying what tithe was about in the Bible.
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XHALE9802
GRANDEUR...
No I don't think it was law in Genesis, thats why I said it was before the mosaic law. its what Abraham did to honor God. From my understanding under the law it was animals, land, etc like what I stated above. My point was it was done before the law as an appreciation to God and it didnt just show up.
Outside of the tithe I think you should give based off where your heart is leading you to give, and give it cheerfully.
I'm not a preacher so I can't tell you why they harp, i've also never been in a congregation where they did. Again, i'm only speaking from what i've learned and read.
BINGO!!!!
how can you disregard Jesus dying on the cross sayin' it is fulfilled,
then turn around and pick one Old testament law and say "I'm going to follow that one and not the others"
Something terrible awaits these so-called ministers for prostituting the Word
like they're doing.
Warndalyn
Postmaster General!!!
Because tithing to most, is all about money...that's why they harp on it. The Love of money...remember that one?
Jesus' death was a sacrifice for the consequences of our sins; to replace the sacrificial "lamb", so to speak. His death was not to replace all Law.
true because before we had to follow the Law and make sacrifices etc etc
after Jesus the ultimite sacrifice was made
you say all Mosaic Law was not replaced?
So every Law was no longer required except "tithe"
impossible, because under the law you tithe to the Levitical Priest
so is a woman wearing make-up and pants, and cutting her hair sinning today?
we may need to move this to the prayer board.
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dacontinent
Preacher
Uh...CEE DOG...er Mr. CEE DOG...tenth is the definition of tithe.
Genesis 14:17-20
Numbers 18:21-32
Leviticus 27:30-32
dacontinent
Preacher
Er...let's see...We'll start with these:
Ex 20:1-17 (KJV)
20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
If you were to move here and become a member of our church, I would gladly receive your tithe.
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CEE DOG
Well-Known Member
You are correct. I meant to say New testament. Therefore we should also be sacrificing animals according to the old testament.
No... that's why Jesus gave himself as a sacrifice.
I bet you would, but you ain't No Levite.
Now do I need to post all the scriptures where it says
The Law was your school master, but now you
have a new covenant built on better promises?
You preach that we are Still under the Law and not Grace?
how can you say the body of Jesus fulfilled only part of the law, ( animal sacrifice) but not all of the Law?
if He left paying tithe to the Levitical Priest
in tact, then what about women wearing pants etc etc
and how do you reconcile or ignore the directions given
in the New Testament on how to give to the church?
dacontinent
Preacher
Nah. Grace is the means BY which we receive salvation.
Let's check the Scripture:
Heb 7:5-14 (KJV)
5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
KJV
So, in the only NT passage outside of the gospels that even speaks of tithing we find:
- Tithing is still the order of the day some 30 years after Jesus has resurrected.
- Since men receiveth them, they will continue after the time of the writing.
- Nothing is given to indicate the practice should end.
- The ordinance of tithing gives way to an even higher order, i.e., we should be giving MORE than the tithe.
- The One to whom WE SHOULD OFFER OURSELVES is of a different tribe entirely.
- The principle of tithing was instituted with Abraham, not Moses; so it was completely before the law.
Do we really still want to argue about whether we should be giving more than a tenth? HE could command much more than that. We ought to be willing to give it up without an appeal being made to us.
dacon. I think you need to read those verses you posted
slowly line by line and understand what each line means.
because you have just supported why they is no such thing as tithing today.
It says Sons of Levi commanded to take tithe, I thought you said God commanded tithe?
slowly line by line and understand what each line means.
because you have just supported why they is no such thing as tithing today.
It says Sons of Levi commanded to take tithe, I thought you said God commanded tithe?
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dacontinent
Preacher
Don't confuse fulfilling the Law with abolishing the Law. Jesus did not abolish the Law. He demonstrated that man was designed to fulfill it but sin prevented such fulfillment. Hence, we only obtain righteousness through Him (sinless) and not in our own ability (works).
So, women who love Him don't carry themselves as men and men who love him do not carry themselves as women (homosexuality). That is abominable; it confuses the world about God's design. It was clearly distinguished in something as simple clothing in those days. The King James has a really nice way of saying it:
Deut 22:5
5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.
It's in the middle of a passage that talks about a myriad of things that might otherwise seem of little consequence to the casual observer. "What's the big deal about clothes?" most people ask. The clothes aren't the real issue; what is lurking in the minds of those engaged in the practices IS. Homosexuality was a prominent part of worship among many of the heathen peoples that Israel would encounter.
I don't want to go any further off the topic for this thread. If you wanna discuss it, start a thread on the Prayer Board.
I can do that.
You seem to be like most preachers mixing up the 3 types of tithing, then
some add whatever they feel. Just telling people to give 10% and have them thinking God said that.
The three types of tithing in the Bible are
Tithing Before The Law
Tithing Under The Mosaic Law
Tithing In The New Testament
dacontinent
Preacher
There's no mix-up. There is only 1 type of tithing.
Tithe => tenth. If you can show me some other generally accepted definition for it, I will concede.
Offering is of freewill.
Alms specifically goes to those in need.
We need to be consciously involved in contributing all 3 ways.
The following is a generalization and is not aimed at anyone reading or contributing to this thread:
In my 31 years of tithing I have observed that MOST people who have a problem with tithing simply don't want to give it. It's not a problem with the preaching, teaching, nor the appeals. It is a matter that most simply say that it is "too much to give". Here is my typical scenario that I offer to others.
Me: Suppose you found a dollar. What would the tithe be?
Friend: A dime.
Me: Would you give it?
Friend: Sure.
Me: Now, suppose you found $10.
Friend: Okay. The tithe is $1. That's cool.
Me: Now, suppose you got a letter in the mail saying that some distant relative died and left you $1M as an inheritance.
Friend: Wait. $100K is too much money to give away!
Me: What if it was given to you 10 dimes at a time?
Friend: [silence]
I have probably done this with 300+ individuals and the responses are always the same.
One of the things that I believe this is designed to show us is this truth:
Matt 6:19-21
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
I have encountered numbers of people who lived well at one time but got in a bind and came to the Benevolence Committee of the church where they have been a member for 10 years to ask for help. Sometimes these are people who have just had a series of crises. Most of the time, it is just people who have not been good stewards. When the records are examined and there is no history of them EVER contributing to the Benevolence Fund, they typically get offended, storm out of the conference, and start spreading stories about that church. They become unwilling to listen to the people who are actually trying to help them. It is a real travesty all the way around.
I digress.
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