Let's talk about it !


jag4life said:
No...they willfully OVERLOOKED it. By the time they get to 10 kids they know.


Do you KNOW them? Are you one of their children? You need stop assuming you know everything Steve. Really, you do not know everything. I do agree that IN SOME cases, they over look it. In other cases, the ONES I speak of, they did not KNOW. They did like Maya Angelou suggests....

I did what I knew how to do at that time; when I learned better, I did better. NOBODY is perfect.
 
<font size=6>Like I was saying, I agree with you and what you tried to START in this thread is honorable, and I respect you for it. However, I wanted you to consider ADDITIONAL points to what you said.....I'm finished now.</font>

DonTiger said:
O.K.

In light of how spirited and refreshing our dialogue has been on the subject of homosexuality, I have a little courage to pose this theory I have to you guys in this forum.


**DISCLAIMER**

I am a Christian. Far from where I want to be but giving my best to walk faithfully so my theory is deeply seeded in the Bible. PLEASE DON'T TAKE MY COMMENTS AS MALE SHOVENISM. I work for 2 ladies who I can witness are more intelligent than I am and I respect them dearly. Would follow them to any region of the country. Also, I love my momma and beleive that she is truly one of the greatest PEOPLE walking the face of the earth.
**
Having said that, here's my 'THEORY' on why marriages and families are failing today.


I believe that today we are witnessing the highest divorce rates, broken and single parent homes and unwed mothers for one singular reason. . .

The breakdown of GOD's design for the family structure.

This is what I mean by this. . .

In today's society, equality is at a premium. Race, ethnic origin, sexual preference, religion and most importantly SEX are all demographics that have been targeted as discrimantory and our country has gone through great lengths to ensure that our society operates on an 'All are Equal' premise. Now far from perfect it is but a sincere effort and an ingrained part of the 'American Way' it is as well. 'Not being discrimianted against' is definately desires of us all, especially those of us who are in a minority.

This Equality when it relates to the sexes started in the work place. 'Equal pay for Equal work' was a battleing cry for women's rights groups and has since blazed the trail for women in this country to gain economic and political strength in this society. This ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT in particular may be the seed of distruction to the family unit as we knew it.

My Theory:
God designed the man to lead the family. In any organization, whether it be a business, a social club, church, and yes, even the family requires clear leadership. Churches have elders. Businesses have owners/directors. Clubs have presidents. Why? To make decision, keep order and resolve problems structure is needed the buck has to stop somewhere. What happens when no one is in charge? MUTINY , ANARCHY, CHAOS!!!!

I believe that God made a design for the family and designated a leader because of this. And God chose the man to head the home. Women in many cases may be more intelligent, wiser, better at managing money, more disciplined etc. But GOD designated the man to lead. Why? I don't know but it is the reality that the Bible prescribes.

ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT has changed the landscape. At one time, even without the biblical influence, women were dependent on there husbands, totally in many cases, to provide. Women stayed home, men worked and earned wages. So I firmly believe that these women, smarter, wiser, 'better' than many of their husbands, bit their lip and submitted themselves to their husbands leadership based purely on PRIMAL NEED! When it came down to it, the bread winner had the last say. ALL of that changes when Sue earns as much or more than Jim. Now, Sue has the freedom to chose to do things her way. If Jim doesn't like it, Sue will get her own place, pay her own bills.... SUE IS A GROWN WOMEN AND SHE DON'T NEED NO MAN TO TAKE CARE OF HER. So when that arguement about 'how much we should spend on this' comes up. Or the 'we should do this instead of that' Or 'I want to go here and you want to go there' or the very plausible 'My career is going left and your career is growing right' debate arises . . . . WHO'S IN CHARGE? WHERE DOES THE DECISION MAKING POWER STAND? DO WE HAVE MUTINY, CHAOS, ANARCHY?

Maybe we have. . . . DIVORCE


Your thoughts?
 



J4J said:
Do you KNOW them? Are you one of their children? You need stop assuming you know everything Steve. Really, you do not know everything. I do agree that IN SOME cases, they over look it. In other cases, the ONES I speak of, they did not KNOW.

I am speaking in general...not specifically in that case nor in ALL cases (I thought you were being non-specific too).

I don't think I know everything...that's why I don't post in most threads if I don't know.
 
J4J,

Good points and I agree with everything you said without reservation.

My 'Theory' isn't one that assigns BLAME to the female in this situation. I don't intend to suggest that it is the women and her equal pay for equal work mentality that should be put on trial.

I think it was a shift in our entire Society. Women became inclusive in the workplace and therefore empowered to have a stronger, more independent voice in the higheracy of the social order. This empowerment was the seed that flowered the 'battle for supremecy' that has turned our families into broken shells of what they used to be.

Again, that's just a theory of why we are at the impass we find today. Not at all a conviction of our Black sista's that went out and got it because 'The Man of The House' wasn't handling his business. You got to do what you got to do. I just think that in the end, we lost our core family value !
 
I agree pretty much with the first post. However women's economic empowerment (for whatever reason it came about) did not have to change the family stucture. Yes in the past the bread winner got the last say but now a conscious decision to follow the power structure has to be made.

Marriages fail now because that decision is not made and folk can easily jump ship when something isn't going their way...having never intended to walk down the road TOGETHER in the first place. I really questions why some folk bother to get married now.....big ceremony?....guiltless arse?

Now I see families teaching women to have your own and do your own even when married....don't follow nobody. Its all blamed on sorry arse men. But I ask you who is it that chose to follow a sorry arse man. If you follow a fool then YOU are a fool and at least 7 times out of 10 the fool could have been identified right off the bat....but people choose to ignore it.
 
DonTiger said:
J4J,

Good points and I agree with everything you said without reservation.

My 'Theory' isn't one that assigns BLAME to the female in this situation. I don't intend to suggest that it is the women and her equal pay for equal work mentality that should be put on trial.

I think it was a shift in our entire Society. Women became inclusive in the workplace and therefore empowered to have a stronger, more independent voice in the higheracy of the social order. This empowerment was the seed that flowered the 'battle for supremecy' that has turned our families into broken shells of what they used to be.

Again, that's just a theory of why we are at the impass we find today. Not at all a conviction of our Black sista's that went out and got it because 'The Man of The House' wasn't handling his business. You got to do what you got to do. I just think that in the end, we lost our core family value !

Thank you!
 
BLAQUE PRINCE said:
easily jump ship.

:nod:

Coupled w/ selfishness and intolerance. :tup: (IMO) Y put up w/ isht..... from <b>anybody</b> when you can easily just.... turn your back and wazzey away and create/have happiness elsewhere? lol I see no logic in that.

Commitment gets thrown out the door when logic kicks in. :uhoh:
 
Panthro said:
:nod:

Coupled w/ selfishness and intolerance. :tup: (IMO) Y put up w/ isht..... from anybody when you can easily just.... turn your back and wazzey away and create/have happiness elsewhere? lol I see no logic in that.

Commitment gets thrown out the door when logic kicks in. :uhoh:

I can throw a gambit of cliches at you for this one. . .

When the going get's tough . . .

Anything worth having is worth. . .

Easy come, easy . . .


The fact of the matter is that you are so correct in that logic dictates that you choose the option that is most comfortable and pleasurable. However, this CHOICE has side effects. OUR KIDS GROW-UP IN BROKEN HOMES.

Sort of like eating cake and ice cream all day every day. Sure it tastes good, but what kind of body are you left with without the vegetables and meats that don't taste quite as sweet?
 
DonTiger said:
I can throw a gambit of cliches at you for this one. . .

When the going get's tough . . .

Anything worth having is worth. . .

Easy come, easy . . .


The fact of the matter is that you are so correct in that logic dictates that you choose the option that is most comfortable and pleasurable. However, this CHOICE has side effects. OUR KIDS GROW-UP IN BROKEN HOMES.

I feel you... but a 2 parent home can be a broken home sometimes.
 
I would have to disagree and say that, ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT, is not the Reason for so much divorce in fact, it is quite the opposite. A lot of marriages that exhibit the long-lasting trait are merely bound because of the economic dynamics, or ?Empowerment? as you say.


My Observations on what Has Happened.


The cost of living escalated

Traditional jobs men held no longer could handle the entire load

Women began to work out of necessity, which equaled less time with kids.

Once everyone began to have their own disposable income, they could separately
Explore more interest.

Every Man can?t go get 12 years of higher education like I did.
Every Man doesn?t have business savvy
But every Man has an ego
We all want to provide for our women & children, & when we can?t
Some men see how it?s better to leave, then to stay feeling hopeless

Now you see how the focus is on money & not love.

Sometimes when a women is with her man, BUT it?s only about the money

She stays there, BUT still looks for & Most of the Time Finds, Romance, Excitement, & Great sex elsewhere.

Therefore, if you?re searching for the cause of so many divorces the answer won?t be found in Economic Issues, It will be found in Love Issues.

For you see, Love will make you say;

?It?s ok, We will make it some how, even if I need to go back to school, get help with homework, move to another place, etc. etc.?

It?s all about "What Do you love??

And brother, if anyone ?Loves? money watch out!

I read that the love of money was the very Root of ALL evil :scared:
 
DonTiger said:
I can throw a gambit of cliches at you for this one. . .

When the going get's tough . . .

Anything worth having is worth. . .

Easy come, easy . . .


The fact of the matter is that you are so correct in that logic dictates that you choose the option that is most comfortable and pleasurable. However, this CHOICE has side effects. OUR KIDS GROW-UP IN BROKEN HOMES.

Sort of like eating cake and ice cream all day every day. Sure it tastes good, but what kind of body are you left with without the vegetables and meats that don't taste quite as sweet?

Should never stay in a broken relationship "just for the kids' sake" DT. I'm sure you agree. Instead of 2 unhappy/mad adults you're gonna' have a whole HOUSE of unhappy individuals. lol

Well, on that cake and ice cream tip? Why eat this one's veggies/meats when there are so, so, so, so many OTHERS who offer likewise and probably better (happier situation etc)?

Unfortunately, I live by logic. And because I always have, I have this "differing" view on parter-related relationships. Is it a "need/necessary" or "want." I drew the line a looooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago.
 
Didn't look at it that way before. You've got my attention.

Tony said:
I would have to disagree and say that, ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT, is not the Reason for so much divorce in fact, it is quite the opposite. A lot of marriages that exhibit the long-lasting trait are merely bound because of the economic dynamics, or ?Empowerment? as you say.


My Observations on what Has Happened.


The cost of living escalated

Traditional jobs men held no longer could handle the entire load

Women began to work out of necessity, which equaled less time with kids.

Once everyone began to have their own disposable income, they could separately
Explore more interest.

Every Man can?t go get 12 years of higher education like I did.
Every Man doesn?t have business savvy
But every Man has an ego
We all want to provide for our women & children, & when we can?t
Some men see how it?s better to leave, then to stay feeling hopeless

Now you see how the focus is on money & not love.

Sometimes when a women is with her man, BUT it?s only about the money

She stays there, BUT still looks for & Most of the Time Finds, Romance, Excitement, & Great sex elsewhere.

Therefore, if you?re searching for the cause of so many divorces the answer won?t be found in Economic Issues, It will be found in Love Issues.

For you see, Love will make you say;

?It?s ok, We will make it some how, even if I need to go back to school, get help with homework, move to another place, etc. etc.?

It?s all about "What Do you love??

And brother, if anyone ?Loves? money watch out!

I read that the love of money was the very Root of ALL evil :scared:
 
jelli said:
Having never been married, I can't offer too much insight. That being said what I have seen from my colleagues and friends are that there is no belief in the sanctity of marriage. I hear folks saying things like" My next wife will be, this and that?" when they are still married to their first or second wife. Folks don't want the to stick around when things get tough they view divroce as an out not a last resort. Or many get marreid for the wrong reasons.

Agreed, Love has become a fairytale to them
So they go through the motions, never
Realizing that love is Real indeed to others.
 



Tony said:
I would have to disagree and say that, ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT, is not the Reason for so much divorce in fact, it is quite the opposite. A lot of marriages that exhibit the long-lasting trait are merely bound because of the economic dynamics, or ?Empowerment? as you say.


My Observations on what Has Happened.


The cost of living escalated

Traditional jobs men held no longer could handle the entire load

Women began to work out of necessity, which equaled less time with kids.

Once everyone began to have their own disposable income, they could separately
Explore more interest.

Every Man can?t go get 12 years of higher education like I did.
Every Man doesn?t have business savvy
But every Man has an ego
We all want to provide for our women & children, & when we can?t
Some men see how it?s better to leave, then to stay feeling hopeless

Now you see how the focus is on money & not love.

Sometimes when a women is with her man, BUT it?s only about the money

She stays there, BUT still looks for & Most of the Time Finds, Romance, Excitement, & Great sex elsewhere.

Therefore, if you?re searching for the cause of so many divorces the answer won?t be found in Economic Issues, It will be found in Love Issues.

For you see, Love will make you say;

?It?s ok, We will make it some how, even if I need to go back to school, get help with homework, move to another place, etc. etc.?

It?s all about "What Do you love??

And brother, if anyone ?Loves? money watch out!

I read that the love of money was the very Root of ALL evil :scared:


I'd say its the economic situation of today that lets alot of people jump into a marriage without love....real love...not infatuation. If you know you got your own and can get out then surely you don't scrutinize before you go in.

Why look for a man that loves you when he doesn't need to do anything for you? Just pick based on what feels good.

Why be a man and protect and provide for your wife when she will be fine without you? Just leave when it doesn't feel good.

With no need to depend on each other no sense of responsibilty is formed. Its not all on the economic issue but it sure does help us all to be lazy in our manly and womanly duties.
 
Panthro said:
:nod:

Coupled w/ selfishness and intolerance. :tup: (IMO) Y put up w/ isht..... from <b>anybody</b> when you can easily just.... turn your back and wazzey away and create/have happiness elsewhere? lol I see no logic in that.

Commitment gets thrown out the door when logic kicks in. :uhoh:

Why should 1 get married at all???
 
Panthro said:
Should never stay in a broken relationship "just for the kids' sake" DT. I'm sure you agree. Instead of 2 unhappy/mad adults you're gonna' have a whole HOUSE of unhappy individuals. lol

Well, on that cake and ice cream tip? Why eat this one's veggies/meats when there are so, so, so, so many OTHERS who offer likewise and probably better (happier situation etc)?

Unfortunately, I live by logic. And because I always have, I have this "differing" view on parter-related relationships. Is it a "need/necessary" or "want." I drew the line a looooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago.

Again I ask you WHY SHOULD 1 GET MARRIED AT ALL????
 
BLAQUE PRINCE said:
I'd say its the economic situation of today that lets alot of people jump into a marriage without love....real love...not infatuation. If you know you got your own and can get out then surely you don't scrutinize before you go in.

Why look for a man that loves you when he doesn't need to do anything for you? Just pick based on what feels good.

Why be a man and protect and provide for your wife when she will be fine without you? Just leave when it doesn't feel good.

With no need to depend on each other no sense of responsibilty is formed. Its not all on the economic issue but it sure does help us all to be lazy in our manly and womanly duties.

True.
& that's why love is dying

Who invented marriage?
For what purpose?
Your purpose?
Your friends purpose?
Your Families purpose?
Societal Comfort?
Any rules?

SO why should we marry at all?

Millions of people will die before they come to understand.
That love is wayyyy more powerful, than even Bill Gates money.
 
Tony said:
Again I ask you WHY SHOULD 1 GET MARRIED AT ALL????

I don't know Tone. I'm still trying to find that law or that magical book/rule that sez you have to. lol

Most <b>want</b> to be married. Question is does one <b>need</b> to be married? :uhoh:

Feel where I'm going?
 
Panthro said:
I don't know Tone. I'm still trying to find that law or that magical book/rule that sez you have to. lol

Most <b>want</b> to be married. Question is does one <b>need</b> to be married? :uhoh:

Feel where I'm going?

I feel you.
 
Tony might be on to something....... People don't "honor" their commitment. Love is NOT a feeling........at least that's what my mom's told me a thousand times. I believe she's right.
 
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