Let's talk about it !


DonTiger

DonTiger

The One....The Only
O.K.

In light of how spirited and refreshing our dialogue has been on the subject of homosexuality, I have a little courage to pose this theory I have to you guys in this forum.


**DISCLAIMER**

I am a Christian. Far from where I want to be but giving my best to walk faithfully so my theory is deeply seeded in the Bible. PLEASE DON'T TAKE MY COMMENTS AS MALE SHOVENISM. I work for 2 ladies who I can witness are more intelligent than I am and I respect them dearly. Would follow them to any region of the country. Also, I love my momma and beleive that she is truly one of the greatest PEOPLE walking the face of the earth.
**
Having said that, here's my 'THEORY' on why marriages and families are failing today.


I believe that today we are witnessing the highest divorce rates, broken and single parent homes and unwed mothers for one singular reason. . .

The breakdown of GOD's design for the family structure.

This is what I mean by this. . .

In today's society, equality is at a premium. Race, ethnic origin, sexual preference, religion and most importantly SEX are all demographics that have been targeted as discrimantory and our country has gone through great lengths to ensure that our society operates on an 'All are Equal' premise. Now far from perfect it is but a sincere effort and an ingrained part of the 'American Way' it is as well. 'Not being discrimianted against' is definately desires of us all, especially those of us who are in a minority.

This Equality when it relates to the sexes started in the work place. 'Equal pay for Equal work' was a battleing cry for women's rights groups and has since blazed the trail for women in this country to gain economic and political strength in this society. This ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT in particular may be the seed of distruction to the family unit as we knew it.

My Theory:
God designed the man to lead the family. In any organization, whether it be a business, a social club, church, and yes, even the family requires clear leadership. Churches have elders. Businesses have owners/directors. Clubs have presidents. Why? To make decision, keep order and resolve problems structure is needed the buck has to stop somewhere. What happens when no one is in charge? MUTINY , ANARCHY, CHAOS!!!!

I believe that God made a design for the family and designated a leader because of this. And God chose the man to head the home. Women in many cases may be more intelligent, wiser, better at managing money, more disciplined etc. But GOD designated the man to lead. Why? I don't know but it is the reality that the Bible prescribes.

ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT has changed the landscape. At one time, even without the biblical influence, women were dependent on there husbands, totally in many cases, to provide. Women stayed home, men worked and earned wages. So I firmly believe that these women, smarter, wiser, 'better' than many of their husbands, bit their lip and submitted themselves to their husbands leadership based purely on PRIMAL NEED! When it came down to it, the bread winner had the last say. ALL of that changes when Sue earns as much or more than Jim. Now, Sue has the freedom to chose to do things her way. If Jim doesn't like it, Sue will get her own place, pay her own bills.... SUE IS A GROWN WOMEN AND SHE DON'T NEED NO MAN TO TAKE CARE OF HER. So when that arguement about 'how much we should spend on this' comes up. Or the 'we should do this instead of that' Or 'I want to go here and you want to go there' or the very plausible 'My career is going left and your career is growing right' debate arises . . . . WHO'S IN CHARGE? WHERE DOES THE DECISION MAKING POWER STAND? DO WE HAVE MUTINY, CHAOS, ANARCHY?

Maybe we have. . . . DIVORCE


Your thoughts?
 
Great thread DonTiger...you know I'm starting to earn a lot of respect for you....I can't stand you on the smack board, though. :D

but, in all seriousness, you are correct. GOD's design for the family is no longer being followed, and that is why we have so much divorce, today. I've often stated this myself...women are more independent now-a-days...we make our own money, in most cases more money than a lot of our male counterparts, so that plays a significant role as to why we will NOT tolerate certain behavior from men. Also, it plays a significant role as to why we won't submit to our men. Not saying it's right, just stating facts.

<font size=6>BUT,</font> you must also admit that men are much different, in this day and time, as well. Most men today, well black men, have no desire to lead the family and be the head of the household...most of them won't/don't stick around to even take care of their kids, today...so, how the hell can you lead me anywhere? See where I'm going w/this? It's a crying shame that we have 30+ old men, still running, when a woman says she's pregnant...that's beyond SAD! :tdown:

So, I guess I can agree w/you, in saying that ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT has changed the landscape...but there are other factors involved, as well, from both sexes. We all need to step up to the plate and do our very best to be the best that GOD wants us to be.

Great thread! :tup:
 



Honestly things are fugged up on both ends....Remember the "All in the Family" theme song. Girls were Girls and Men were Mennnnnnn...
 
Warndalyn said:
Great thread DonTiger...you know I'm starting to earn a lot of respect for you....I can't stand you on the smack board, though. :D

but, in all seriousness, you are correct. GOD's design for the family is no longer being followed, and that is why we have so much divorce, today. I've often stated this myself...women are more independent now-a-days...we make our own money, in most cases more money than a lot of our male counterparts, so that plays a significant role as to why we will NOT tolerate certain behavior from men. Also, it plays a significant role as to why we won't submit to our men. Not saying it's right, just stating facts.

<font size=6>BUT,</font> you must also admit that men are much different, in this day and time, as well. Most men today, well black men, have no desire to lead the family and be the head of the household...most of them won't/don't stick around to even take care of their kids, today...so, how the hell can you lead me anywhere? See where I'm going w/this? It's a crying shame that we have 30+ old men, still running, when a woman says she's pregnant...that's beyond SAD! :tdown:

So, I guess I can agree w/you, in saying that ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT has changed the landscape...but there are other factors involved, as well, from both sexes. We all need to step up to the plate and do our very best to be the best that GOD wants us to be.

Great thread! :tup:
Click to expand...

:lecture:
 
Warndalyn said:
<font size=6>BUT,</font> you must also admit that men are much different, in this day and time, as well. :rolleyes: Most men today:rolleyes: , well black men :splat: , have no desire to lead the family and be the head of the household...most of them won't/don't stick around to even take care of their kids, today...so, how the hell can you lead me anywhere? See where I'm going w/this? It's a crying shame that we have 30+ old men, still running, when a woman says she's pregnant...that's beyond SAD! :tdown:



Great thread! :tup:
Click to expand...

The one's that don't or won't stick around to take care of the kid's were not worth a shat in the first place.:tup:

I'm yet to see grown WORKING, NON-DRUG DEALING, NON-PLAYER WANNA BE, NON-MONEY FLASHING, NON CLUB HOPING men I see NOT take care of his kids.

How the he!! can a person ask someone to LEAD when the person women, BLACK WOMEN, pick was not worth a damm to begin with.

Ask a "single mother"...........(not picking, or blaming), in the EBT line, no father around where the daddy is, or what he did for a living.

"Oh ..............that nicka is in jail for selling drugs..........robbing a store...........highschool dropout no job"..................bet 80% answer like this.

All the while, the Book smart NERD, Brother with a job, CLUB's every blue moon guy don't get looked at because he is "Boring" or "soft".

Choices cut BOTH WAYS.
 
Warndalyn said:
<font size=6>BUT,</font> you must also admit that men are much different, in this day and time, as well. Most men today, well black men, have no desire to lead the family and be the head of the household...most of them won't/don't stick around to even take care of their kids, today...so, how the hell can you lead me anywhere? See where I'm going w/this? It's a crying shame that we have 30+ old men, still running, when a woman says she's pregnant...that's beyond SAD! :tdown:
Click to expand...

...and most women are not willing to be lead or be submissive (in the Biblical way) as they were in the past. It goes both ways.

...and as Stagga said... if he was no-good when you met him, you probably shouldn't expect him to lead.
 
staggalee83 said:
Ask a "single mother"...........(not picking, or blaming), in the EBT line, no father around where the daddy is, or what he did for a living.

"Oh ..............that nicka is in jail for selling drugs..........robbing a store...........highschool dropout no job"..................bet 80% answer like this.

All the while, the Book smart NERD, Brother with a job, CLUB's every blue moon guy don't get looked at because he is "Boring" or "soft".

Choices cut BOTH WAYS.
Click to expand...

I'm feeling your post and in particular what I highlighted.

I often wonder when you hear the complaints about how 'my baby daddy aint *hit?' And that *igga this or that *igga aint that.

WHEN DO WE HOLD THESE WOMEN ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE 'CHOICES' THEY MAKE !!
 
Warndalyn said:
Great thread DonTiger...you know I'm starting to earn a lot of respect for you....I can't stand you on the smack board, though. :D
Click to expand...

I appreciate the Compliment.

I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR YOU THOUGH. YOUR CHOICE OF SCHOOLS REAKS OF IDIOCY !!!! (just jokin') :lol:

I'll save the rest for the SMACK BOARD during football season :hat:
 
Warndalyn said:
oh well...and the thread started out so well.
Click to expand...

Is it not going well now? You made a statement that has truth to it.. and some guys made a counter-statement with truth to it. What is the problem?
 
Warndalyn said:
oh well...and the thread started out so well.
Click to expand...

You're right Warndalyn. . .

Let's stick to dialogue about the issue !!!


What's happening to the Family Unit?
 
DonTiger said:
You're right Warndalyn. . .

Let's stick to dialogue about the issue !!!


What's happening to the Family Unit?
Click to expand...
I didn't want the thread to get off on a women-vs-men tangent...ya know. We have enough of that bullschitt going, on around here.

Once again, we all need to just step up to the plate and do our part, which glorifies the kingdom of GOD. Women are not playing their roles and men are not playing theirs..but to be honest w/you, DT, I don't know how to fix this problem. Times have most definitely changed since the days of our ancestors, that's for sure. I, personally am very disappointed in the direction the black family unit is heading.
 
DonTiger said:
O.K.

In light of how spirited and refreshing our dialogue has been on the subject of homosexuality, I have a little courage to pose this theory I have to you guys in this forum.


**DISCLAIMER**

I am a Christian. Far from where I want to be but giving my best to walk faithfully so my theory is deeply seeded in the Bible. PLEASE DON'T TAKE MY COMMENTS AS MALE SHOVENISM. I work for 2 ladies who I can witness are more intelligent than I am and I respect them dearly. Would follow them to any region of the country. Also, I love my momma and beleive that she is truly one of the greatest PEOPLE walking the face of the earth.
**
Having said that, here's my 'THEORY' on why marriages and families are failing today.


I believe that today we are witnessing the highest divorce rates, broken and single parent homes and unwed mothers for one singular reason. . .

The breakdown of GOD's design for the family structure.

This is what I mean by this. . .

In today's society, equality is at a premium. Race, ethnic origin, sexual preference, religion and most importantly SEX are all demographics that have been targeted as discrimantory and our country has gone through great lengths to ensure that our society operates on an 'All are Equal' premise. Now far from perfect it is but a sincere effort and an ingrained part of the 'American Way' it is as well. 'Not being discrimianted against' is definately desires of us all, especially those of us who are in a minority.

This Equality when it relates to the sexes started in the work place. 'Equal pay for Equal work' was a battleing cry for women's rights groups and has since blazed the trail for women in this country to gain economic and political strength in this society. This ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT in particular may be the seed of distruction to the family unit as we knew it.

My Theory:
God designed the man to lead the family. In any organization, whether it be a business, a social club, church, and yes, even the family requires clear leadership. Churches have elders. Businesses have owners/directors. Clubs have presidents. Why? To make decision, keep order and resolve problems structure is needed the buck has to stop somewhere. What happens when no one is in charge? MUTINY , ANARCHY, CHAOS!!!!

I believe that God made a design for the family and designated a leader because of this. And God chose the man to head the home. Women in many cases may be more intelligent, wiser, better at managing money, more disciplined etc. But GOD designated the man to lead. Why? I don't know but it is the reality that the Bible prescribes.

ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT has changed the landscape. At one time, even without the biblical influence, women were dependent on there husbands, totally in many cases, to provide. Women stayed home, men worked and earned wages. So I firmly believe that these women, smarter, wiser, 'better' than many of their husbands, bit their lip and submitted themselves to their husbands leadership based purely on PRIMAL NEED! When it came down to it, the bread winner had the last say. ALL of that changes when Sue earns as much or more than Jim. Now, Sue has the freedom to chose to do things her way. If Jim doesn't like it, Sue will get her own place, pay her own bills.... SUE IS A GROWN WOMEN AND SHE DON'T NEED NO MAN TO TAKE CARE OF HER. So when that arguement about 'how much we should spend on this' comes up. Or the 'we should do this instead of that' Or 'I want to go here and you want to go there' or the very plausible 'My career is going left and your career is growing right' debate arises . . . . WHO'S IN CHARGE? WHERE DOES THE DECISION MAKING POWER STAND? DO WE HAVE MUTINY, CHAOS, ANARCHY?

Maybe we have. . . . DIVORCE


Your thoughts?
Click to expand...


Great points. But I believe that most women dont have a choice now. Look at my brothers, we are either in jail, on drugs, jobless, or even in the ground. Women now has little of no choice but to fend for themselves because we leaving them one way of another. I am a proud black man but if my fellow brothers dont take care of there wifes they have to do what they have to do. If not they will be homeless and broke. Sad but true.
 
Having never been married, I can't offer too much insight. That being said what I have seen from my colleagues and friends are that there is no belief in the sanctity of marriage. I hear folks saying things like" My next wife will be, this and that?" when they are still married to their first or second wife. Folks don't want the to stick around when things get tough they view divroce as an out not a last resort. Or many get marreid for the wrong reasons.
 



jelli said:
there is no belief in the sanctity of marriage. Folks don't want the to stick around when things get tough they view divroce as an out not a last resort.
Click to expand...

This is SO true !
 
Don Tiger I agree to an extent. You have to ask yourself ---anybody must ask themselves---why did the woman want "economic impowerment"?

Is it because she was just selfish and didn't want to listen to the head of the household or was it because in SOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEE cases, the man was not "leading" or not "leading properly"?

I know a lot of people but I do not know EVERYBODY. Therefore my comments are limited to what I have seen and what I know.

I have seen men lead households and "take care of things" while the wife was a good submissive little woman. It has and it CAN work.

But as a physicist and a person who observes a lot, for every action there is an equal an opposite reaction. Just as in physics that is true, in life, for every plus, there is a minus. Therefore, I carefully submit to you that for every good leader/head of the house hold there are a few who are not so good.

Without trying to turn this into a male vs. female thread, I am saying some women HAD to do the best they could when the man/husband/father was absent/sleeping around/dead/crazy/on drugs/at war/etc. So if he had her at home with 10 babies and he was an in/out father (or worse yet, absent), was she supposed to sit there and wait on him to come back or get up and take care of her babies that he left behind? I say, "GET UP". With 10 children, can a woman care for them on the "unequal salary" that you seemingly suggest in your initial comment.

I like your proposal of why things are where they are...but consider some other options also. The "women's movement" should not bare the burden of sole responsiblity of the collapse of marriage as we know it should be.

Please CONSIDER what I said.

With that said, good post and I will begin reading other comments.
 
jag4life said:
...and most women are not willing to be lead or be submissive (in the Biblical way) as they were in the past. It goes both ways.

...and as Stagga said... if he was no-good when you met him, you probably shouldn't expect him to lead.
Click to expand...


In some cases "their no-goodness" is not always exhibited. PLENTY have been fooled.
 
Warndalyn said:
I didn't want the thread to get off on a women-vs-men tangent...ya know. We have enough of that bullschitt going, on around here.

Once again, we all need to just step up to the plate and do our part, which glorifies the kingdom of GOD. Women are not playing their roles and men are not playing theirs..but to be honest w/you, DT, I don't know how to fix this problem. Times have most definitely changed since the days of our ancestors, that's for sure. I, personally am very disappointed in the direction the black family unit is heading.
Click to expand...


Case in point---my great grandma was born because her mother was raped by a white man---her slave owner. THAT WAS NOT HER SO CALLED CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So what was she to do?
 
J4J said:
So if he had her at home with 10 babies and he was an in/out father (or worse yet, absent), was she supposed to sit there and wait on him to come back or get up and take care of her babies that he left behind?
Click to expand...

She should get up and work... but hopefully she would realize he is no-good before the 10th kid. lol
 
J4J said:
Case in point---my great grandma was born because her mother was raped by a white man---her slave owner. THAT WAS NOT HER SO CALLED CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So what was she to do?
Click to expand...

Nothing...she was a slave.
 
jag4life said:
She should get up and work... but hopefully she would realize he is no-good before the 10th kid. lol
Click to expand...


What I highlighted is your KEY word. Sometimes they did not know. They willfully accepted him as the leader, but you can't know before hand in EVERY case that the man is going to change for the worse. I KNOW of cases like this...that is why I mentioned.
 
Croft84 said:
Great points. But I believe that most women dont have a choice now. Look at my brothers, we are either in jail, on drugs, jobless, or even in the ground. Women now has little of no choice but to fend for themselves because we leaving them one way of another. I am a proud black man but if my fellow brothers dont take care of there wifes they have to do what they have to do. If not they will be homeless and broke. Sad but true.
Click to expand...


There is more than one reason and what you point out adds to the pot of what is wrong with the black family today....Excellent points.
 
J4J said:
What I highlighted is your KEY word. Sometimes they did not know. They willfully accepted him as the leader, but you can't know before hand in EVERY case that the man is going to change for the worse. I KNOW of cases like this...that is why I mentioned.
Click to expand...

No...they willfully OVERLOOKED it. By the time they get to 10 kids they know.
 
jag4life said:
Nothing...she was a slave.
Click to expand...


Well then, that is ONE case. Think of how man more are around you.

Well with her history at hand...I have to see how and why my family has some of their experiences in it.

My great grandma sold dinners for a living and she was a part of the nursing corp as told to me....her daughter, my grandma owned and operated a cafe in New Orleans with her brothers who both owned and operated cab companies in New Orleans. The mindset (because their own history) was to not allow anyone to leave you in the cold...be independent. Do what you have to do to survive and take care of the family. So....it goes from generation to generation in many families. I have to speak of my own family because I KNOW of it first hand. AND I have to suggest that there are PLENTY other stories that help explain ....the conditions of the black family TODAY as we know it....as MANY know it.
 
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