Homosexuality, reglion and contradiction

[Kendrick]

1. If this is a “Christian nation†and we demand our leaders be Christian (not Muslim or otherwise), why oh, why aren’t we more critical of them for passing laws that allow civil unions?

2. We like to say “God bless America†all the time, right? But do we honestly believe God will bless America if we as a nation continue to support and cater to homosexuals?

3. Before I get called a homophobe, let’s take this in the other direction here. There are those who say they can’t support gays because they live in sin and their lifestyle goes against God. To that I say, have you not told a lie this week? Have you not watched porn, cussed or used the Lord’s name in vain?

Yeah, God did say that homosexuality was wrong. He also said that fornicating was wrong, adultery was wrong, getting drunk was wrong, lusting after other men or women was wrong and idolatry was wrong as well.

But we have no problem supporting those who are participating in those activities. Heck, we encourage and promote it if one logs onto the Internet or watches TV. Five twenty somethings from New Jersey became very popular as a result of being involved in those activities. We brag about how many sexual partners we had, what sexual acts we’ve done, the gentlemen’s club we’ve attended and how much we’ve gotten wasted at the club or the bar.

Hey, we even inform our teenagers “if you are going to sin (fornicate), use protection or birth control.â€

However, there is not the same dissent toward those acts that there is homosexuality. Just saying.

4. Just because I don’t agree with homosexuality, doesn’t make me a bad person, homophobe or a Bible thumper. I don’t agree with murder or rape either. Is something wrong with that, too?

I’m not saying gay people need to be stoned to death, discriminated against or rounded up and placed on a remote island somewhere. That’s not right either.

5. I just think there is so much contradiction to this whole issue, the way we live our lives and how we view the world. (Me included)

 

[bernard]

You can also call America, “a nation of hypocrites”. When it comes to homosexuality, most races have discussed and moved on; blacks seem to dwell on the issue for some reason.

No matter what God says or what you say the bible says, people are going to live the lives they choose, not you and they are not going to share your beliefs or your hang-ups.

You can beat this dead horse until the cows come home. Until you realize people are different, you will be stuck in neutral in rush hour traffic.

 

[dacontinent]

1. If this is a “Christian nation” ...?

2. We like to say “God bless America” ...?

3. Before I get called a homophobe...?

4. Just because I don’t agree with homosexuality...?

5. I just think ...

1. I don't know who WE are, but being the President of the United States does not allow for all decisions of the office to be based on Christian principles.
2. This has been relegated to a patriotic with lyrics that no longer mean anything to 99% of those who sing it.
3. Relative righteousness is an oxymoron that will result in more people in hell than those who simply loved evil.
4. Nothing wrong with your position as long as you are walking in Christ.
5. There is no contradiction on the issue. The Scripture is clear.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

1. If this is a “Christian nation” and we demand our leaders be Christian (not Muslim or otherwise), why oh, why aren’t we more critical of them for passing laws that allow civil unions?

2. We like to say “God bless America” all the time, right? But do we honestly believe God will bless America if we as a nation continue to support and cater to homosexuals?

3. Before I get called a homophobe, let’s take this in the other direction here. There are those who say they can’t support gays because they live in sin and their lifestyle goes against God. To that I say, have you not told a lie this week? Have you not watched porn, cussed or used the Lord’s name in vain?

Yeah, God did say that homosexuality was wrong. He also said that fornicating was wrong, adultery was wrong, getting drunk was wrong, lusting after other men or women was wrong and idolatry was wrong as well.

But we have no problem supporting those who are participating in those activities. Heck, we encourage and promote it if one logs onto the Internet or watches TV. Five twenty somethings from New Jersey became very popular as a result of being involved in those activities. We brag about how many sexual partners we had, what sexual acts we’ve done, the gentlemen’s club we’ve attended and how much we’ve gotten wasted at the club or the bar.

Hey, we even inform our teenagers “if you are going to sin (fornicate), use protection or birth control.”

However, there is not the same dissent toward those acts that there is homosexuality. Just saying.

4. Just because I don’t agree with homosexuality, doesn’t make me a bad person, homophobe or a Bible thumper. I don’t agree with murder or rape either. Is something wrong with that, too?

I’m not saying gay people need to be stoned to death, discriminated against or rounded up and placed on a remote island somewhere. That’s not right either.

5. I just think there is so much contradiction to this whole issue, the way we live our lives and how we view the world. (Me included)

Yes, I understand that sometimes Christians can seem as if they are hypocrites when they too sin at times, but I do not think that is the issue with true Christians because we all fall short of the glory of God. A true Christian will sin, acknowledge what he did was a sin, confess the sin, ask God's forgiveness and repent of the sin. People who partake in homosexuality will not admit that homosexuality is a sin, nor will they confess, ask forgiveness and repent. This is the difference and evil people want true Christians to accept their evil act and call it good. The same can be said for other evil acts such as rape, murder and etc.

Yes, this is a Christian nation. It is evident in every great thing that we do. Look at all of the inventions and technology in the world and ask if the majority of those inventions came from Christians and Christian nations. Look at the sign above and behind the Speaker of the House, it says "In God We Trust." Look at the sign on the currency, it says "In God We Trust." Look at the words in the Pledge of Allegiance, it says "one nation under God." The bible says that all knowledge, wisdom, and understanding comes from God, so if that be the case, then who deserves the credit? Should not all the credit belong to God? Was it man that made America great, or was it God? Was it man that made America the most powerful and blessed nation on earth, or was it God? Is it man that bless America with more food than any nation on earth or is it God? Who deserves the credit for the blessings and all of the great inventions and technology that was created by Christian residing in Christian nations? Yes, I want God in my home, work, school, marriage, sex life, my thoughts and when I am contemplating to do evil so that I may refuse evil or ask forgiveness of my sins. Yes, our leaders should always acknowledge God in everything they do and I do mean everything because that is what God has instructed Christians to do.

 

[JayRob]

First of all, the many who were responsible for writing the Constitution were themselves fleeing from their country due to religious persecution. They forbade government from infringing in their personal lives of it's citizens. They forbade one to be discriminated against based on religion.
Based on some of the comments I've read by religious fanatics, thank goodness these rights were placed in the Constitution.

Most people in this nation may confess to Christianity, but most don't really follow those principles. If they really followed the entire bible, they'd be stoning their sons for disrespect, allowing their daughters to marry their rapist, engaging in genocide of whole races who didn't believe in their god; having multiple wives; killing innocent families, babies and children and taking their possessions.

Some of these same professing Christians have no problem calling other people "evil", while totally ignoring the many evils prevalent in their own bible. How hypocritical is that?

Many who confess Christianity, pick and choose which biblical laws they want to keep. Isn't abortion murder? Doesn't the bible say not to murder? Does this stop many Christians from resorting to abortion eventhough their bible/god forbids it? No.

 

[JayRob]

It amazes me to no end that people actually think that a Supreme Intelligence, responsible for the creation of billions of stars, galaxies and planets, is ACTUALLY concerned with where two consenting adult men choose to stick their penises.
When will this type of backward thinking end?

People should be able to live the life they choose to live just as long as they're not hurting others.
Would one rather live by a homosexual who is a great neighbor or a heterosexual whose a rapist and murderer?
A person's sexual life should be his/her own business just as long as they're not hurting others according to society's rules and regulations.

 

[Kendrick]

It amazes me to no end that people actually think that a Supreme Intelligence, responsible for the creation of billions of stars, galaxies and planets, is ACTUALLY concerned with where two consenting adult men choose to stick their penises.
When will this type of backward thinking end?

Well, the supreme being, God, is concerned about the lifestyle of others, considering according to the Bible he said being a homosexual was a sin just like murder and all the rest of the transgressions. God doesn't distinguish between sin. You break one, you break them all in his eyes. If God was not concerned about that particular lifestyle, he would not have instructed it to be placed in the Bible.

 

[JayRob]

Well, the supreme being, God, is concerned about the lifestyle of others, considering according to the Bible he said being a homosexual was a sin just like murder and all the rest of the transgressions. God doesn't distinguish between sin. You break one, you break them all in his eyes. If God was not concerned about that particular lifestyle, he would not have instructed it to be placed in the Bible.

In regards to the entity you label as "the supreme being, god", I have a simple question for you. How do know beyond the shadow of a doubt that he's the one true Supreme Intelligence of the universe?

I asked this same question of Royal Blue and he did everything he could to avoid answering it. To this very day he hasn't answered it.

 

[dacontinent]

...If they really followed the entire bible, they'd be stoning their sons for disrespect, allowing their daughters to marry their rapist, engaging in genocide of whole races who didn't believe in their god; having multiple wives; killing innocent families, babies and children and taking their possessions...

:topic:
I'm going to give you a chance to correct this first.

 

[Kendrick]

In regards to the entity you label as "the supreme being, god", I have a simple question for you. How do know beyond the shadow of a doubt that he's the one true Supreme Intelligence of the universe?

How do you know without a shadow of a doubt he isn't?

 

[JayRob]

:topic:
I'm going to give you a chance to correct this first.

What is there to correct? Aren't those things I mentioned in the bible? Yes, they are.

 

[JayRob]

How do you know without a shadow of a doubt he isn't?

The burden of proof is on the one asserting the claim. For example, if a person claims that X exists and is real, then the burden is on that person to supply some support for that claim, some evidence or proof that others can and should examine before accepting it.

It is incorrect to think that X exists and is real until someone can prove that there is no X.
It is also wrong to think that just because you cannot prove that X exists that does not mean that X does not exist and therefore X does exist.

If I claimed that the biblical god is the Supreme Intelligence of the universe, I'd have to provide evidence. The burden of proof would be on me.

As far as me knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that the biblical god isn't the Supreme Intelligence, I'll be glad to prove that point, but I'll do it after you've provided the burden of proof that he is.

 

[jsupop33]

Jayrob,
You stay on it huh?

 

[dacontinent]

What is there to correct? Aren't those things I mentioned in the bible? Yes, they are.

Lots of things are mentioned in the Bible. Come on, man. You are not that simple.

You are well aware that if you read the entire Bible that Jesus came to teach us to love, fulfilling the Scriptures. The life of love abolishes those negatives, even enabling the forgiveness of adultery, rape, murder and all things criminal. You learn that when you read the entire Bible.

Push on, bruh. I'm done with this.

 

[JayRob]

Lots of things are mentioned in the Bible. Come on, man. You are not that simple.

You are well aware that if you read the entire Bible that Jesus came to teach us to love, fulfilling the Scriptures. The life of love abolishes those negatives, even enabling the forgiveness of adultery, rape, murder and all things criminal. You learn that when you read the entire Bible.

Push on, bruh. I'm done with this.

Just like I stated earlier, folks want to pick and choose which laws apply and which they believe don't.

This same Jesus you mentioned was supposedly the very god of the Old Testament who instructed Moses in the very laws you're trying to distance yourself from such as the laws of rape and genocide. He ordered Moses to write down what he supposedly inspired. Now why do you want to suddenly discard what your god instructed Moses to do? You can't have it both ways.

Didn't your bible state that not one jot or tittle would be removed from it? If that's so, you have no choice but to accept what it says regardless of how you don't like it. I've been trying to tell you this for quite some time now.

It's amazing that folks bring up stuff from the bible, but when they're called out on it, they suddenly want to scat and run. That's your prerogative, but just remember that when you bring up something from the bible, just make sure you know what you're talking about and who you're talking to. Some folks know a lot more than you think.

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

In regards to the entity you label as "the supreme being, god", I have a simple question for you. How do know beyond the shadow of a doubt that he's the one true Supreme Intelligence of the universe?

I asked this same question of Royal Blue and he did everything he could to avoid answering it. To this very day he hasn't answered it.

...and you are doing everything you can to avoid the truth, the way, and the light. You have boldly and without shame rejected God's love offering of salvation, but that's your choice. You are what you are in the following verses...Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Psalm 14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

Psalm 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

 

[JayRob]

...and you are doing everything you can to avoid the truth, the way, and the light. You have boldly and without shame rejected God's love offering of salvation, but that's your choice. You are what you are in the following verses...Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Psalm 14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

Psalm 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Where did I ever say there's not a Supreme Intelligence? In fact, I believe in a Supreme Intelligence, however I don't think he's the god that's mentioned in the bible and I have very good reason to believe that way.
If I'm a fool for not believing in unfulfilled prophecies, false history, plagiarized doctrines, unscientific statements made in the bible, and so on, then so be it.
This "fool" isn't afraid to ask the tough questions and answer them with an objective mind.

Now why do you continue to avoid simple questions that seem to contradict your own bible?

 

[ROYAL BLUE]

Where did I ever say there's not a Supreme Intelligence? In fact, I believe in a Supreme Intelligence, however I don't think he's the god that's mentioned in the bible and I have very good reason to believe that way.
If I'm a fool for not believing in unfulfilled prophecies, false history, plagiarized doctrines, unscientific statements made in the bible, and so on, then so be it.
This "fool" isn't afraid to ask the tough questions and answer them with an objective mind.

Now why do you continue to avoid simple questions that seem to contradict your own bible?

1 John 4 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

 

[JayRob]

1 John 4 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

Love is universal, so there's no need for a biblical god to teach that, eventhough the teachings of love in the bible are fine to live by just as they are in other religions. Love is simply treating a person as one would want to be treated, if one is in his/her right mind.

As far as testing is concerned, using your own bible, you've failed that test a couple of times.
Didn't you claim that all living beings would be spirit beings after a second coming eventhough Isaiah proved you wrong? Yes.

Then you claimed Deut 22:28 didn't mean to be raped, only again found to be wrong? You even tried to justify verses 25-28 in regards to women being raped and given to their rapist in marriage. You never answered the question I ask about you giving your daughter in marriage to her rapist.
You didn't want to answer the question because in your mind, you KNOW this is evil, yet it's in your bible.

Would you consider it as a labor of love to give your daughter or a raped victim over to her rapist in marriage? I certainly wouldn't, yet it's in your bible and it was sanctioned by Moses and the one who supposedly inspired him, which was the god who supposedly inspired the above verses. Which one do you follow?

 

[dacontinent]

Just like I stated earlier, folks want to pick and choose which laws apply and which they believe don't.

This same Jesus you mentioned was supposedly the very god of the Old Testament who instructed Moses in the very laws you're trying to distance yourself from such as the laws of rape and genocide. He ordered Moses to write down what he supposedly inspired. Now why do you want to suddenly discard what your god instructed Moses to do? You can't have it both ways.

Didn't your bible state that not one jot or tittle would be removed from it? If that's so, you have no choice but to accept what it says regardless of how you don't like it. I've been trying to tell you this for quite some time now.

It's amazing that folks bring up stuff from the bible, but when they're called out on it, they suddenly want to scat and run. That's your prerogative, but just remember that when you bring up something from the bible, just make sure you know what you're talking about and who you're talking to. Some folks know a lot more than you think.

I don't want anything both ways. I want it just like it reads.

Matt 5:38-6:1 KJV

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye , and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

John 13:34-35

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.


1 John 2:7-11

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. 9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

2 John 5-6

5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Matt 22:34-40

34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

So...if you read the above when you read the entire Bible and you still don't get it, just ask. We who believe will try to help you.

It was love in the beginning and it is still love as we near the end.

 

[JayRob]

I don't want anything both ways. I want it just like it reads.

Matt 5:38-6:1 KJV

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye , and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

John 13:34-35

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.


1 John 2:7-11

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. 9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

2 John 5-6

5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Matt 22:34-40

34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

So...if you read the above when you read the entire Bible and you still don't get it, just ask. We who believe will try to help you.

It was love in the beginning and it is still love as we near the end.

First of all, what does this, "in the beginning" mean? When was it's starting point?

If all these commandments you speak of were "in the beginning", then Moses surely didn't know it. If he did, he wouldn't have ordered mass genocide, he wouldn't have ordered the thousands of hacking to death of men, women, children and babies.

If these laws of love existed from the beginning, Moses wouldn't have ordered brother to kill brother, he wouldn't have ordered the forcing of rape victims to marry their rapists. He wouldn't have ordered the killing of every man, woman, child and animal just because the leaders of a certain group of people didn't allow the Israelites to go through their territory.

If these laws of love existed "from the beginning", millions of people, including innocent children and babies, wouldn't have been ordered drowned by a flood because of sins they had nothing to do with.

Like I stated earlier, if the bible says, "not one jot or tittle of it would be done away with", you MUST by default include all of it.....the good with the bad, the evil with the not so evil. One can't exist without the other no matter how much you want it too. If one is to follow the entire bible, he can no more distance himself from it's evils than from it's good.
It seems that some people are trying desperately to distance themselves though.

If the law of love exists in the New Testament, what "loving entity" would dare order humans to burn in torturing fire forever and ever and ever, for all eternity without being burned up? There's no way anyone can explain that as being love eventhough I'm sure some out of loyalty to their god will try.
That's the worst kind of evil punishment any person with a mind can dream up.
If this IS love in your opinion, please explain how.

 

[dacontinent]

First of all, what does this, "in the beginning" mean? When was it's starting point?

If all these commandments you speak of were "in the beginning", then Moses surely didn't know it. If he did, he wouldn't have ordered mass genocide, he wouldn't have ordered the thousands of hacking to death of men, women, children and babies.

If these laws of love existed from the beginning, Moses wouldn't have ordered brother to kill brother, he wouldn't have ordered the forcing of rape victims to marry their rapists. He wouldn't have ordered the killing of every man, woman, child and animal just because the leaders of a certain group of people didn't allow the Israelites to go through their territory.

If these laws of love existed "from the beginning", millions of people, including innocent children and babies, wouldn't have been ordered drowned by a flood because of sins they had nothing to do with.

Like I stated earlier, if the bible says, "not one jot or tittle of it would be done away with", you MUST by default include all of it.....the good with the bad, the evil with the not so evil. One can't exist without the other no matter how much you want it too. If one is to follow the entire bible, he can no more distance himself from it's evils than from it's good.
It seems that some people are trying desperately to distance themselves though.

If the law of love exists in the New Testament, what "loving entity" would dare order humans to burn in torturing fire forever and ever and ever, for all eternity without being burned up? There's no way anyone can explain that as being love eventhough I'm sure some out of loyalty to their god will try.
That's the worst kind of evil punishment any person with a mind can dream up.
If this IS love in your opinion, please explain how.

One more time ...

Matt 22:34-40

34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The beginning ... LOVE GOD

Ex 20:1-17
20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee. 13 Thou shalt not kill. 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15 Thou shalt not steal. 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


Love God and your neighbor and there is really no need for any other laws. It really is simple and was from the beginning of laws being given in the Scriptures. Not one jot nor tittle is lost.

As far as the orders given in the New Testament ... they are the same as before: LOVE. Following those orders by surrendering ones life to the directives of a LOVING SAVIOR ensures that those humans are spared from being burned in "torturing fire forever and ever and ever, for all eternity without being burned up". The Way is made for us humans. It is up to us to take it.

 

[JayRob]

One more time ...

Matt 22:34-40

34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The beginning ... LOVE GOD

Ex 20:1-17
20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee. 13 Thou shalt not kill. 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15 Thou shalt not steal. 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


Love God and your neighbor and there is really no need for any other laws. It really is simple and was from the beginning of laws being given in the Scriptures. Not one jot nor tittle is lost.

As far as the orders given in the New Testament ... they are the same as before: LOVE. Following those orders by surrendering ones life to the directives of a LOVING SAVIOR ensures that those humans are spared from being burned in "torturing fire forever and ever and ever, for all eternity without being burned up". The Way is made for us humans. It is up to us to take it.

Just like I knew you would, you couldn't bring yourself to admit that the unjust doctrine of eternal hell fire is the most wicked doctrine in any religion. How can you sentence someone for eternal burning and burning for thousands and thousands of years after they've only lived for 80 or 90 years? That's the epitome of injustice nevertheless, you seem to have no problem with this? Am I right?

When it comes to religion, folks....even educated ones just throw logic out the window.

Still you didn't explain, and I don't expect you too, how it is a show of love by ordering outright genocide of innocent men, women, children and babies? It's estimated that the Old Testament god was responsible for the deaths of over 20 million people in the flood alone (Gen. 7:23). Were the children and babies responsible for sin or do you just completely ignore this and blame their deaths on them? 20 million?! Wow!!!

How does being jealous translate to love (Ex. 20:5)? It doesn't.

How does visiting the sins upon the third and fourth generations translate to love eventhough those generations didn't commit the sins they were being punished for (Ex. 20:5)? It doesn't. But that doesn't seem to matter to some seeing that they gloss right over it out of fear and subjectivity.

How does commanding someone not to kill, but then ordering them to kill innocent women, children and babies for the sins and actions of others (Numbers 31; Josh 10)? That's not real love at all, but due to biased and non-objective opinions, I don't expect an outright admittance from you.

How does commanding your people not to covet, but order the pillaging of already occupied lands belonging to current inhabitants (Numbers 31:7-18)? That's not love at all, but I don't expect you to admit such.

How does commanding your people not to commit adultery, but then ordering them to take virgin women for themselves, after killing off the other women who weren't virgins Numbers 31:7-18? How is this a show of love by forcefully taking virgin women, killing off their mother and fathers while sexually forcing them to dwell with the killers of their fathers, mothers, sisters and brothers?

 

[SUtrp96]

1. If this is a “Christian nation” and we demand our leaders be Christian (not Muslim or otherwise), why oh, why aren’t we more critical of them for passing laws that allow civil unions?

2. We like to say “God bless America” all the time, right? But do we honestly believe God will bless America if we as a nation continue to support and cater to homosexuals?

3. Before I get called a homophobe, let’s take this in the other direction here. There are those who say they can’t support gays because they live in sin and their lifestyle goes against God. To that I say, have you not told a lie this week? Have you not watched porn, cussed or used the Lord’s name in vain?

Yeah, God did say that homosexuality was wrong. He also said that fornicating was wrong, adultery was wrong, getting drunk was wrong, lusting after other men or women was wrong and idolatry was wrong as well.

But we have no problem supporting those who are participating in those activities. Heck, we encourage and promote it if one logs onto the Internet or watches TV. Five twenty somethings from New Jersey became very popular as a result of being involved in those activities. We brag about how many sexual partners we had, what sexual acts we’ve done, the gentlemen’s club we’ve attended and how much we’ve gotten wasted at the club or the bar.

Hey, we even inform our teenagers “if you are going to sin (fornicate), use protection or birth control.”

However, there is not the same dissent toward those acts that there is homosexuality. Just saying.

4. Just because I don’t agree with homosexuality, doesn’t make me a bad person, homophobe or a Bible thumper. I don’t agree with murder or rape either. Is something wrong with that, too?

I’m not saying gay people need to be stoned to death, discriminated against or rounded up and placed on a remote island somewhere. That’s not right either.

5. I just think there is so much contradiction to this whole issue, the way we live our lives and how we view the world. (Me included)

The democrats will stay away from this one...lmao

 

[JayRob]

To me, a simple and sufficient cause to reject the bible can be found in Numbers 31, where God tells Moses to tell his troops to commit genocide. Not just any old genocide -- they are to wipe out the women and children of a conquered people (right down to babies in arms) except for young virgin females. The men are to take those for themselves, so they can finish off their bloodletting with a little slave-rape.

These weren't impersonal deaths, of course. Back then killing somebody meant hacking them open or stabbing them and watching while their life quivered out of them in a pool of their own blood and feces. Tens of thousands of murders -- as this was no act of war, it was an act of murder.

Face up to your faith. Visualize Moses, a righteous man (according to the Bible, in spite of his lies, deceptions, and acts of egregious violence, not to mention his incredible stupidity as it took him forty years to move his people a couple of hundred miles from Egypt into Israel) and consider him as one the NT records as walking with Jesus post resurrection at the ascension -- and then visualize his troops at his direct command killing babies.

I mean real, live babies -- in their mother's arms. I mean small children, trying to hide behind the safety of their parent's legs even as that parent is gutted. I mean little boys feeling their life flow out of them through a hole that passes through their lungs even as your murderer strips the young females and investigates with a still-bloody finger whether or not she is a virgin, then raping her (either way) before your dying eyes.

You call THAT love?! Seriously.....is this love?