Gainous now against move to I-A football


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Bluedog,

I can understand your concerns. But, your comments are very intriguing because those are often statements that are similar to what other SWAC posters would say when they come to Southern/Mumford.

After a while I believe it is just based on the pride and the success in regards to both programs and as you know both schools will out live the coaches and any member of their current administration.

In fact, that is the true bases for the suggestion that the SWAC Office and SWAC Commissioner hopefully seriously consider entertaining the idea of least approaching Florida A & M University on their position and options.

Of course the addition of Florida A & M University would have to be included in combination with a 2nd additional expansion team to bring the conference to 12 members. In my opinion, this would reduce your traveling concerns by splitting up the conference in Men's and Women's basketball.

Of course Florida A & M University would join the Eastern Division of the SWAC in all current divisional SWAC alignments, which would not increase any travelling cost for the SWAC Western Division members and would re-establish old SIAC rivalries in match-ups such Alabama State vs. Florida A & M and Alabama A & M vs. Florida A & M and possible bookend that end of the conference.

It would allow the SWAC to tie into an additional rich state in the South, in Florida. Of course it would increase the revenue potential of the conference in terms of attendance numbers and even more importantly, in negotiating television contracts and sponsorship deals having the top programs in terms of attendance, history, tradition, and winning percentages.

I think the above expansion of Florida A & M University and 2nd institution to the SWAC would be similar to the former Big VIII expanding to include the former 4 members of the SWC rather than the SEC expansion to 12 members of Arkansas & South Carolina. Although the Big VIII Conference was a very tradition and historically rich conference.

The idea of expanding the Big VIII conference to include Texas (Texas A&M, Texas Tech) even if that would include bringing in a Baylor was a no brainer (ie. Big XII). Especially, once those involved took the time to look at the economic benefits involved in such a move. I honestly believe this would be the case if the SWAC and Florida A & M University with one other HBCU Division I AA program partnered to create a 12 member SWAC.

This in no way am I suggesting that the SWAC would rival the economic windfall of either the Big XII or the SEC, but I think it would be and economic windfall in terms of Black College Sports.
 
Originally posted by bluedog
Jafus:

First the travel cost is isn't worth it but mainly it's the attitude of alot of the fans there in Tallahassee.

I've been to many SWAC road games and not have I ever encounter the experience of not feeling safe and knowing that the security their wasn't going to do diddly for you.

I remember right before Pete stop playing Billy Joe that on two occasions when we got to the stadium to take our seats famu fans were already sitting in them and basically dared anyone from SU to take then back.

Several people went to get help from security and all I have to say about that is.....smh!

Not to mention the arrogant and unsportsman like approach Billy Joe has with the coaches. That same attitude is reflected in the band director in that he take the postion that schools should have to pay them to show up and play for their football games.

We don't need that type of attitude infecting the SWAC, it's that same attitude that has landed them in the poistion that they're in now.

While I don't wish anything bad for the rattlers, neither do I wish to see them become a member of the SWAC unless some serious changes are made.
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????

I've never had an experience like this--(gee of coarse not Bart,, you was always in band, :D )-- but even since retiring from band and going back to HBCU games evenly split between the MEAC, the SIAC and ASU games, I have never seen anything even close to this type of behavior.

Clearly I can't say one way or the other of your experince. I did, however, attend the game between FAMU and Troy State and the most unruley and obnoxious people there were the white Troy state students (not their fans. ). Lastly, working in Troy, I've had white people who travel with Troy State and have gone to FAMU over the decades tell me they enjoy going there and FAMU coming to Troy (this particular female lives near the Troy campus and usually meets fans by letting them park in her yard during football season. she told me she never has problems with FAMU fans). This from die-hard "woodpeckaz" who are, first and foremost, Alabama Crimson Tide and Auburn fans and listen to Hank Williams Jr. So clearly we have different experiences as far as FAMU fans goes. Plus too,, I would say that, overall, you are going to have obnoxious fans everywhere, so that would be no big factor one way or the other,,,,,, unless fans are like those soccer fans in Europe. that could be problematic. ;)
 



Jafus

While we have disagreed on the issue of FAMU moving to 1-A, I agree with you on the issue of the SWAC looking to include those snakes. I remember before Rudy left and rumors were swirling regarding FAMU and TennST coming into the conference - and I think right now this would be an excellent time to try and make that a reality.

As you stated, the conference could split even more, travel cost would be cut, it puts the conference into new markets, old rivalries are re-established.

Additiononally on the football side, if something like that were to happen, I think a true 8-3 football schedule can be maintained - 8 conference games - 3 out of conference games. Due to the fact that a lot of SWAC teams play both FAMU and TnST in non conference games now, once they are conference games, that will allow teams to schedule new teams and expose the conference again in other areas. Plus I think that with a core of teams like I have stated the SCG can remain - and the possibility of having a NCAA playoff rep would also be strong year in and year out, and I am sure that aspect would please those that want to do the playoff thing. Ultimately, I think this would be a win - win for everyone involved if that were to happen. Of course that is such a long way from being a possiblity.
 
Originally posted by Jafus (Thinker)
Bluedog,

I can understand your concerns. But, your comments are very intriguing because those are often statements that are similar to what other SWAC posters would say when they come to Southern/Mumford.

After a while I believe it is just based on the pride and the success in regards to both programs and as you know both schools will out live the coaches and any member of their current administration.

In fact, that is the true bases for the suggestion that the SWAC Office and SWAC Commissioner hopefully seriously consider entertaining the idea of least approaching Florida A & M University on their position and options.

Of course the addition of Florida A & M University would have to be included in combination with a 2nd additional expansion team to bring the conference to 12 members. In my opinion, this would reduce your traveling concerns by splitting up the conference in Men's and Women's basketball.

Of course Florida A & M University would join the Eastern Division of the SWAC in all current divisional SWAC alignments, which would not increase any travelling cost for the SWAC Western Division members and would re-establish old SIAC rivalries in match-ups such Alabama State vs. Florida A & M and Alabama A & M vs. Florida A & M and possible bookend that end of the conference.

It would allow the SWAC to tie into an additional rich state in the South, in Florida. Of course it would increase the revenue potential of the conference in terms of attendance numbers and even more importantly, in negotiating television contracts and sponsorship deals having the top programs in terms of attendance, history, tradition, and winning percentages.

I think the above expansion of Florida A & M University and 2nd institution to the SWAC would be similar to the former Big VIII expanding to include the former 4 members of the SWC rather than the SEC expansion to 12 members of Arkansas & South Carolina. Although the Big VIII Conference was a very tradition and historically rich conference.

The idea of expanding the Big VIII conference to include Texas (Texas A&M, Texas Tech) even if that would include bringing in a Baylor was a no brainer (ie. Big XII). Especially, once those involved took the time to look at the economic benefits involved in such a move. I honestly believe this would be the case if the SWAC and Florida A & M University with one other HBCU Division I AA program partnered to create a 12 member SWAC.

This in no way am I suggesting that the SWAC would rival the economic windfall of either the Big XII or the SEC, but I think it would be and economic windfall in terms of Black College Sports.
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Just an outstanding and very reasoned analysis as usual Jafus. Great job. Seems like a very even view to me.
 
Based on my experience, the majority of HBCU Alums will not designate their giving back to the University in support of athletics. The majority of HBCU Alums contributions goes toward academics. Therefore, if anyone is considering going 1A the Alumni is not going to provide enough support. However, 30,000 to 40,000 season tickets will improve the situation, but selling that many season tickets will be difficult. They will attend games, but the majority of the money has to be raised from other sources. I don't care what university you support the alums who are giving back are going to continue supporting academics.

As recent as last week I was talking about building a new facility for basketball to a couple of retired alums and they both agreed that a new facility will hurt academics. They were opposed to it 100%.
 
Originally posted by Jafus (Thinker)
Bluedog,

I can understand your concerns. But, your comments are very intriguing because those are often statements that are similar to what other SWAC posters would say when they come to Southern/Mumford.

Well i'm sure that you do but i'm even more sure that you've been to many games at mumford stadium and know all to well that isn't the case so i won't waste energy trying to defend urban legends

After a while I believe it is just based on the pride and the success in regards to both programs and as you know both schools will out live the coaches and any member of their current administration.

Understand clearly that i'm no inexperience swac fan nor does anyone shouting obscenities even come close to freighten me or putting me in a state of amber alert.

What i'm talking about is people having to actually go to security because they were physically threaten about their own seats that they paid money for and had travel hundreds of miles to get.

But that's neither here nor there because that's just one part of my objection to them becoming a SWAC memeber.

Have you forgotten how they left the meac without even a kiss goodbye? And when they did decide to give one it was clearly a KMA.

Their attitudes that i'm talking about clearly raise it's ugly head when they just knew that they didn't have to deal with meac schools anymore. Remember the Bcc incident and how they were trying to short change Bcc because they felt they were doing them a favor?

Don't forget that they left this conference once before or atleast tried. To have been a part of this conference in which they clearly are in closer proximity to than any SWAC school and to burn bridges or show that they cleary have a superiority complex is more than enough to make me vomit to be truthful about it.

It all sums up why they think that their band is to great to be a part of the conference that supports them (which they shown again this year) and god forbid they lose a game to a school that "THEY " think are beneath them, gives me all the reason in the world why i wouldn't want them in the SWAC.
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Originally posted by Jafus (Thinker)
Bluedog,

I can understand your concerns. But, your comments are very intriguing because those are often statements that are similar to what other SWAC posters would say when they come to Southern/Mumford.

After a while I believe it is just based on the pride and the success in regards to both programs and as you know both schools will out live the coaches and any member of their current administration.

In fact, that is the true bases for the suggestion that the SWAC Office and SWAC Commissioner hopefully seriously consider entertaining the idea of least approaching Florida A & M University on their position and options.

Of course the addition of Florida A & M University would have to be included in combination with a 2nd additional expansion team to bring the conference to 12 members. In my opinion, this would reduce your traveling concerns by splitting up the conference in Men's and Women's basketball.

Of course Florida A & M University would join the Eastern Division of the SWAC in all current divisional SWAC alignments, which would not increase any travelling cost for the SWAC Western Division members and would re-establish old SIAC rivalries in match-ups such Alabama State vs. Florida A & M and Alabama A & M vs. Florida A & M and possible bookend that end of the conference.

It would allow the SWAC to tie into an additional rich state in the South, in Florida. Of course it would increase the revenue potential of the conference in terms of attendance numbers and even more importantly, in negotiating television contracts and sponsorship deals having the top programs in terms of attendance, history, tradition, and winning percentages.

I think the above expansion of Florida A & M University and 2nd institution to the SWAC would be similar to the former Big VIII expanding to include the former 4 members of the SWC rather than the SEC expansion to 12 members of Arkansas & South Carolina. Although the Big VIII Conference was a very tradition and historically rich conference.

The idea of expanding the Big VIII conference to include Texas (Texas A&M, Texas Tech) even if that would include bringing in a Baylor was a no brainer (ie. Big XII). Especially, once those involved took the time to look at the economic benefits involved in such a move. I honestly believe this would be the case if the SWAC and Florida A & M University with one other HBCU Division I AA program partnered to create a 12 member SWAC.

This in no way am I suggesting that the SWAC would rival the economic windfall of either the Big XII or the SEC, but I think it would be and economic windfall in terms of Black College Sports.
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Well thought out Jafus. I have always wanted to see Tn State or FAMU in the SWAC. I always figured Tn State would be the most logical but FAMU would work too.

As far as Tally Ho being rough at Bragg. Well sure it is and I don't begrudge the FAMU fans. It's tough at Mumford. Well it used to be anyway. I think we are nicer these days than we were in the 80's. ZN can tell you when the Jukebox went to Tally when we were in the band, how they were on our arses the whole game until we waxed that butt at halftime. LOL. But some of their fans do go to far, like throwing food on you and stuff. Bragg is intimidating and the FAMU fans can get rowdy there. So I can see folks being scared. But most Jaguar fans aint taking too much isht so it has always been a heated rivalry between us and them. I don't think any other SWAC school would bring that out of FAMU. Just my opinion.
 
Originally posted by Butch Wms.
I hope that a D1AA schedule can be put in place at this late date and the MEAC accepts FAMU back.:goof: :goof: :goof:
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Do you think this can be acheived at this point? I just don't see how schools in the MEAC, that's been planning for FAMU not to be on their schedual this year can just cancel games and buy out contract's to put FAMU back in. A few might, but I just can't see all of them being able to do so without it becomming a financial loss for them ............(buying out contracts). The schools that are being replace may not back off the contract.
 
jstate83,

I was hoping that there was still time to work this out. You know how HBCUs are usually late with making out football schedules each year.:) :D :emlaugh:
 
Folks,

Jafus has been trying to breakup the MEAC and get FAMU in the SWAC for years. He has always sought an agenda regarding FAMU. Perhaps he's a big fan of the school and it's program. I dunno ???? smh I really just think he would like to see the MEAC become a lower level Black College IAA conference. Jafus's idea of the MEAC includes schools like NCCU,SSU,VA.STATE,MOBROWN,..ETC,ETC. You get the point.

He would like to see the Florida schools in the SWAC[BCC & FAMU]

Of course this would make the SWAC the flagship Black IAA conference. That's not the case today. Although the SWAC's tradition is still ahead of the MEAC, competition wise that's not necessarily the case.

Jafus has motives............ :)

However, the bitterness between FAMU and the MEAC membership is high right now. Who knows what will happen with them. Pride may also kick in. I know they're embarrassed.
 
Originally posted by ksmith

. . . he would like to see the MEAC become a lower level Black College IAA conference . . .

. . . this would make the SWAC the flagship Black IAA conference . . .
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It already is, and it already is.
 
It only makes sense for the SWAC to try to Grab FAMU and we would be fools not to. I would really be in favor of adding FAMU and dropping PV, and remaining at 10 teams. Either that or try to get FAM and TSU and go to 12.

I think long term, othe goal of the SWAC as to be to step our game up. We are on the low end of D1-AA and part of the problem has been that we expand from the bottom. Also we are Competing with the MEAC for a lot of talent. Its time to bury the MEAC if they are willing to let FAMU slide out the door. thats just good business.
 
Originally posted by Deuce
It already is, and it already is.
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If you look at how different computer systems ranked them:
GPI Computer-Only Rank - Conference (Total)
10. MEAC (472.88)
11. SWAC (482.90)

If you look at their strength of schedule:
GPI Strength of Schedule Rank - Conference (Total)
10. MEAC (85.00)
11. SWAC (89.40)

GPI Overall and Composite Rank - Conference (GPI Total)
10. MEAC (74.23)
11. SWAC (75.90)

I think this shows that the two were pretty close in ability last year. SWAC wins the attendance race, MEAC has the I-AA auto-bid.

Maybe pride will rear at the MEAC and they'll not allow FAMU back, naturally the SWAC would be the best alternative.
 
Originally posted by ksmith
Of course this would make the SWAC the flagship Black IAA conference. That's not the case today. Although the SWAC's tradition is still ahead of the MEAC, competition wise that's not necessarily the case.
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Originally posted by J-State Tiger
It only makes sense for the SWAC to try to Grab FAMU and we would be fools not to. I would really be in favor of adding FAMU and dropping PV, and remaining at 10 teams.
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Actually it would make better sense to drop valley if the conference were to stay at 10 if your going to put them in the east where they should be.
 



I don't know about that. The MEAC had two team in the I-AA playoffs. Ya know...as in the NCAA.....Credibility. Of course you guys don't know anything about playing the nation's best. You choose not to compete. Until then.....nationally the MEAC will have more respect. I really believe that. This year was a strong year for GSU and SU but...............who knows how good you really are. You choose not to compete.

I have come around to respecting the fact that we agree to disagree about our directions. But, the MEAC has ranked higher than the SWAC over the last 10 years. [I-AA Polls]


Regarding FAMU:

We told them about getting the cart before the horse, but these guys in Tally think their program is bigger than it really is. They think they are an IAA elite program. Why? Because the won the NCAA back in 1978 and they went two rounds back in 1999. Gee...Wow!! Arrogance!!! Now they look stupid!!! I hope the Rattler's have learned a valuable lesson. Something about a woman who just thinks she's finer than she really is. They make you just shake your head.
 
Originally posted by ksmith
I don't know about that. The MEAC had two team in the I-AA playoffs. Ya know...as in the NCAA.....Credibility. Of course you guys don't know anything about playing the nation's best. You choose not to compete.
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Man the SWAC was competing in the PLAYOFF's when ya'll were just trying to be known within your own conference. Ya'll just discovered the concept of national exposure.

Playoff's .................... BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. BIG DEAL.
 
Originally posted by bluedog
Actually it would make better sense to drop valley if the conference were to stay at 10 if your going to put them in the east where they should be.
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bluedog,

If FAMU were added to the SWAC, there would have to be a total re-alignment, not just adding FAMU and dropping whoever. The East Division is already tough, compared to the West. Adding FAMU, and dropping the weakest team in the division would not make sense.

We may have to go to a north/south alignment, especially if Tn St. is added too. But the whole issue is probably moot, because FAMU will likely stay in the MEAC.
 
KSmith,

I do not have anymore agenda than any other poster on this page (SWACPAGE site), MEACFANS site or the Onnidan Website. Or the agenda you have in regards to your posts on your positions in regards to Florida A & M University operating their athletic program on the NCAA Division I A level.

I simply am an alum of Prairie View A & M University and the SWAC. In my opinion, as a follower of the SWAC more than the other Black College Conferences or Independent programs, I think this should be address by the SWAC leaders and Florida A & M University so I mentioned it during this time of possible change in regards to the direction of Florida A & M Universty athletics.

If you have followed my position I have always suggested different scenarios that would suggest radical or diffantly more than general plans to the directions of all HBCU conference and independent programs depending on the topic and the specifics of what is being discussed.

In my opinion, this isn't any difference than the ACC or Big East Conference and/or its members institutions scenario. It is just a business decision. It makes since then things will move forward. I am only suggesting in this open forum that it be evaluated.
 
The SWAC has not really done playoffs because you haven't won a game. NEVER!!!....EVER!!!!!

I think JSU is something like 0-8 in playoff play. That sucks!!!
That means the real IAA programs don't believe we BCF programs are legit. We have to start winning at the national level. Just because the SWAC has gone to the playoffs and are like 0-18 in them doesn't mean you have actually..."done" the playoffs.

Get real.........LOL!!!
 
I hear you Jafus, but you are definitely prejudice towards the SWAC and have often made recommendations that make most of us in the MEAC' s stomachs turn.

But, you're a cool customer.......we just can read between your lines.

I don't think the Rattlers are interested in going to a IAA conference which wouldn't let them participate in the playoffs.
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Get real ...............:idea: ................... OK.

WHAT'S OUR RECORD AGAINST YOU ....... HEAD TO HEAD.

And please pull yourself up and get some air. You act like you are on the 1-aa playoff payroll.

And give me the HEAD TO HEAD RECORD.
 
HOWARD IS 1-6 against JSU. Six of the Seven games were played on the road. Jackson came to Washington, DC once and were..........CLOBBERED!!!!! It wasn't even a close contest.

But, you guys have the series lead thanks to poor decision making in our athletic department. I would have never agreed to play you guys year after year on the road. SMH @ our AD!!!!

btw,...........SO WHAT!!!

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

The SWAC members are butt f### by Grambling and Southern!!!

Then they had the nerve to throw the remaining membership a bone called.........."The SWAC Championship Game".

There is no way a MEAC member will tolerate being pimped by Grambling and Southern every year. No matter how big the Bayou is. It's so unfair to the SWAC membership. No wonder you can't recruit outside of your States.
 
KSmith,

I respectfully disagree. The only reason that the MEAC has an automatic bid is the fact that one of the conference members in Florida A & M University was responsible for insisting that the Florida Classic (FAMU, one of the participants in the Florida Classic) be moved from the Thanksgiving Day weekend.

Only because of one of the members in the Florida Classic was the reason the conference moved forward in establishing the conference interest in participating in the NCAA Division I AA playoffs, as first priority. In my opinion there isn't anything wrong with that. But, let's not act like it was the conference that set this agenda.

Remember initially both conference were so remote in regards to participating in the playoffs that both conferences created the Heritage Bowl, orinigally set to have each conference members champions participate in the game. So it is very misleading on your part to suggest that the entire conference was instrumental in their interest in participating in the playoffs, initially and that they would not let one or two members dictate the direction of the conference.
 
ksmith,

I know you and I agree on the FAMU situation. I remember several months ago you and I arguing our case on deaf ears on meacfans. (BTW, have you started the "I told you so" thread yet?...lol)

I also would like to see the SWAC champion in the playoffs. My ideal scenario would be for the playoffs to start a week later. This would have a great effect on attendance at the schools that already participate IMO.

However, for your opinion that the rest of the SWAC is getting screwed by SU and GSU playing in the BC to be valid, one of the other 8 teams would actually have to win the conference for a change! It's been 13 years since that has happened.....
 
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