bluedog
"Leader of Kings"
No they aren't, their voting base and avg voters are just dumb.
Sent from my Samsung Captivate.
Donald Trump and the Birther Debate
- Thread starter Mark
- Start date
- Status
No they aren't, their voting base and avg voters are just dumb.
Sent from my Samsung Captivate.
Makaho 2.0
++ Digital Assassin ++
Dude, I am simply pointing out the arguments the birthers are posing.
And for you Obamanites who claim that there is no difference between a Certification of Live Birth and a Birth Certificate, the birthers, as well as the State of Hawaii, would have to disagree with you.
Pay close attention to the following Hawaiian legal statute:
“[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State.
(a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.
(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]â€
Everybody get that?
As long as an adult can walk into Hawaii’s version of the Department of Records and provide proof that they are a legal resident of Hawaii, the document is issued. The child, on the other hand, could have been born in Hawaii, Kenya, or a back-alley in West Jackson.
How much more proof do you disciples of the Messiah need before you will admit that there are legitimate reasons to demand answers on this issue?
Again, he could shut all these birthers up just by showing a birth certificate, which he as not done. And as I have pointed out several times, which you and others seem to overlook, I have greater issue with his presidency than where he was born.
What I stated before is the fundamental purpose of the birthers argument. Perhaps Obama is waiting for a grander stage to shut them up? Who knows? Apparently he does.
Makaho 2.0
++ Digital Assassin ++
So let me get this straight, if someone has a divergent political philosophy from yours/and or democrats that makes them dumb? Dude, unplug yourself from the Borg before it's too late.
JSU/99
Well-Known Member
This is no different than any other crackpot theory that's been given credence by the public. You and other birthers are fixated on things like the certificate of live birth without looking at the bigger issue. If you presented a certificate of live birth instead of a birth certificate, does that mean you weren't born here? Of course not. Even before looking at the so-called "evidence"(and there is none), logic and common sense should shut this birther mess down before it even got started to any reasonable person. I mean really, how could Obama's parents and grandparents, who were virtual nobodies, have pulled this off? And why would Hawaii be complicit with this. How could have 2 seperate birth announcements appeared in local papers - announcements sent from the Hospital directly? And what the heck was a pregnant 18 y/o doing traveling back and forth to Kenya, smuggling a newborn baby in and out. And at what point did this entire conspiracy come together? This birther mess is no different than the "Clinton murders" from back in the 90's. It so unbelievable you wonder how anyone with logic and reason can believe it.
Look, I get from a political standpoint why Repubs and even some independants are not favorable to Obama. His approval rating hovers in the mid 40's, so there's obviously some dissent there. There are a lot of Democrats that have issue with him as well. So stop hiding behing this "he's your messiah, I'm just raising valid points" wall. That's BS. There are ways to debate the merits of Obama's presidency without going down the birther road. Raising that non-issue simply shows yor true colors. The fact is, you aren't interested in resonable debates about policy, your interested in muddying the waters, antagonizing the opposition, etc.
Makaho 2.0
++ Digital Assassin ++
^ Dude, did you even read those statutes? Apparently not. And I am going to say this one last time, I DON'T CARE WHERE OR IF HE WAS BORN HERE, I have plenty more issues I can go on. I was simply pointing out why the birthers have an issue with the legitimacy of his presidency. And I have said before, he could simply "shut them up" by producing the document. What part of that do you not get?
JSU/99
Well-Known Member
I could care less about the statutes. All they did was explain what a certificate of live birth is. That has nothing to do with whether or not Obama was born here or in Kenya. You say you have plenty of issues you can go on, yet you like so many other still can't resist casting doubt on his citizenship. Its a total crackpot theory.
As for Obama shutting them up, he's doing the right thing by refusing the legitimize these nuts. He was certified as a candidate in every state. He passed constitutional requirements to run for President. The State of Hawaii has stated repeatedly that he was born there. More importantly, he lived 40+ years without any questions about his citizenship before even running for President. He's the President and yall expecting him to lower himself to some conspiracy theorists? You know these same crazies say Bill Ayers wrote Dreams from my Father and that he's a secret Muslim. And the same folks that said CLinton was responsible for numerous murders.
Makaho 2.0
++ Digital Assassin ++
Again you are missing the point. Your and my "Birth Certificate" produces evidence where we were born, Obama's produced "Certification of Birth" does not. That's what the birthers are trying to point out, and the reason why I have not pointed out my many issues with his presidency thus far is that the subject of this tread is about the birthers argument. This thread has been hijacked enough, I was simply providing a devil's advocate perspective of what the birthers are basing their argument on.
And it's not a matter of lowering himself to a certain level, sometimes it's about shutting a mofo up! It would be easy for him to do that. A lot of people....not just birthers remain befuddled why Obama would work so hard to keep the details of his early life unverifiable, when he could easily produce a certified copy of his actual long-form birth certificate. By not doing it, a lot of people that don't think this is an issue start saying...."Hmmm, why don't he just show it and shut them fools up! Everybody else has shown theirs!"
Yet again, as I stated before we can discuss the myriad of other shortcomings in another thread. I'm simply pointing out why the birthers are still on this tangent.
GSU4LIFE
Active Member
But yet they dismiss out of hand the 2 newspaper announcements of live birth. you can't fake them. so if you put the short form together with the newspapers announcements this issue becomes mute.
JSU/99
Well-Known Member
Birthers are on this tangent because its what they do. Same thing with any conspiracy theorist. Only difference is you have so-called "credible" people picking up on this. Doesn't make it any more valid. Again, its total crackpot - you're saying they raise valid points only make you look as nutty as they are.
And who is everyone else? I don't remember anyone asking to see any other candidate's birth certificate. Everyone else has shown theres? Who is everyone else? Name some names. Again, total crackpot theory. Congrats on endorsing it.
And who is everyone else? I don't remember anyone asking to see any other candidate's birth certificate. Everyone else has shown theres? Who is everyone else? Name some names. Again, total crackpot theory. Congrats on endorsing it.
bluedog
"Leader of Kings"
I don't recall directing it towards anyone particular and the debate doesn't have anything to do with anybody philosophy, except for those that fancy themselves some sort of genius because they try to get attention by going against what they perceive to be the norm or the grain.
Sent from my Samsung Captivate.
Makaho 2.0
++ Digital Assassin ++
For the 13th time....a newspaper announcement has nothing to do with having a birth certificate based on the satutes that I listed earlier. Again, this is the part of the birthers argument.
You obviously read only parts of what I posted. I still don't know which parts of devil's advocacy you fail to grasp. If looking at the basis of another sides arguments makes you "nutty", then so be it. But you can's simply dismiss someone like Donald Trump as a nut. He has an agenda with the birther argument. Donald Trump plays both sides of the political spectrum via donating money to both sides of the aisle. His agenda may be the way of playing the role of spoiler like Ros Perot did. Whatever agenda he has you simply cannot deny something that can simply be dismissed by Obama shutting his ass up with a piece of paper.
Blue, you basically said their voting base was dumb because they don't think like you do. To make a blanket statement like that truly shows your immaturity in regards to the political process. I would never call anyone with a divergent philosophy dumb. By your own verbiage you said they, which excludes you. You can try and spin that how you want to, but you said what you said bruh.
JSU/99
Well-Known Member
You really think Obama playing into their hands will shut them up? Not at all...if anything it'll embolden them even more. Obama could produce a birth cert right now - it still wouldnt matter. They'd rant about how long it took and say its fake. If Obama and all those involved are smart enough to pull off this grand conspiracy, don't you think they'd be smart enough to produce a fake birth certificate? That would've been the first thing they did. Heck the birthers have already produced a fake Kenyan one. SO enough of all this "show me the birth certificate" BS. And please stop with the "im just playing Devil's Advocate" stuff. You're the one who came on here claiming as fact that Obama's grandmother said he was born in Kenya and that you didn't care where he was born. You either believe he was born here or you're one of the birthers.
As for Trump, he can be dismissed easily. RIght now he's entertainment - no one and I mean NO ONE is taking this guy seriously from a political standpoint. There's no way he makes a true run at the presidency like Perot did. He's about as serious as Charlie Sheen right now. All this talk of sending investigators to Hawaii to find out the truth? Let's see what comes of that. It shouldn't take too long.
Last edited:
Makaho 2.0
++ Digital Assassin ++
Yes it will shut them up! The majority of people in this country both Dems and Repubs have very short memories politically. The majority on both sides like to roll with the latest political buzz and whatever the talking heads regurgitate through the media. If they keep talking it up, it becomes an issue. That's the nature of our society. And people need to take Trump seriously. I recall a state senator from Illinois not being taken seriously by the political powers that be at one time.....how did that turn out? The Obama birth certificate issue has refused to go away, and Trump has decided to fly the flagship of the birthers. You said no one is taking him seriously, yet why is main stream media still letting him on shows like the View and others to spout his rhetoric. It has become a Red Herring of sorts to some....
Just by saying it is crackpot will not make it go away when most people feel he could simply shut his ass up by producing the document.
I wonder if Trump will get Dog the Bounty Hunter as one of his investigators? He lives in Hawaii.
usa today
Sgt Backfire
Democrats are the one's that actual care about black people. I just can see how a black person can ride with Republicans who really don't care about black people. Well let me rephrase that: the republicans only care for the rich black people. If they had their way, all blacks would be pushed back to Africa. lmao
JSU/99
Well-Known Member
Obama was a major player the moment he burst on the scene at the 2004 DNC. From then on he was scene as presidential material - it was a matter of when. Trump - no one see this guy as anything other than entertainment. Yes he gets a lot of press but so does Charlie Sheen. Trump has a hit show, he's been in the public eye forever and he's speaking to the crackpot fringe - of course he gets publicity. None of it means anything when its time to campaign and count votes.
Makaho 2.0
++ Digital Assassin ++
Which is why Republicans freed the slaves? Your thinking is very outdated and laced with nonfactual opinion. Contrary to popular belief, the majority of Republicans aren't that rich. While the Democrats love to claim they are the party for the poor the only poor that seem to support them are impoverished minorities, and the bulk of their supporters are actually white middle class Americans. The Black Vote is a myth on a national level.
Black people are only 13% of the population and maybe 30% of us vote at best, that equates to a 4% voting power nationally. However, the Democratic party has a lock on those votes. The truth is as long as the Democratic Party can recruit from the Universities and controls the media they could care less about Blacks. Who runs the Republican party.....rich white men! Who runs the Democratic party.....rich white men!
I am a Conservative first and foremost, I simply do not agree with Democrats on the national level. I'm pro-life, do not support same sex marriage, I can't get with the dems above the municipal level. As I stated before, you are voicing your uneducated opinion, and not facts.
Makaho 2.0
++ Digital Assassin ++
Ronald Reagan and Arnold Swartzanegger were both actors, so what's your point. Obama was a state senator in 2004. When the Republican candidate dropped out of the race in disgrace when his wife (actress that played 7 of 9 on Star Trek) told the media about his wife swapping/3 some shenanigans, Obama steamrolled into the Senate. Prior to that, he was only known in the state of Illinois. Trump, on the other hand was a household name in 2004, and is still a household name today. Crackpot fringe or not, he is well known bruh.
Makaho 2.0
++ Digital Assassin ++
One more thing.........
I created this flyer about 7 years ago for a tspn poster that was helping Ashley Bell's campaign efforts out. Notice the upper right corner of the flyer. That's our current commander in chief when he was just a state senator running for the IL senate.
As I stated before, Obama was not always a household name.
I created this flyer about 7 years ago for a tspn poster that was helping Ashley Bell's campaign efforts out. Notice the upper right corner of the flyer. That's our current commander in chief when he was just a state senator running for the IL senate.
As I stated before, Obama was not always a household name.
Didn't he speak at the 2004 Democratic National Convention? That's when he became well known.
bluedog
"Leader of Kings"
OK let me make myself clearer, their dumb because they can be sold anything. I also said the avg voter was dumb.
Example; it's common knowledge that John McCain was born out of the country but they're to dumb to see this is just political jocking to get the top of the ticket or they would have been scrutinizing him also if they were sincere.
But they rather believe a african and a poor white woman got an entire state vital records dept and an entire wing of a hospital to get together and pull off the biggest hoax in the world because they knew some 3-4 decades later their son was going to run for President of the united states and win.
That's pretty damn dumb.....
Sent from my Samsung Captivate.
usa today
Sgt Backfire
JSU/99
Well-Known Member
You equate being well known with being taken seriously. Its not the same. The Arnold and Reagan examples don't work because these guys were taken seriously before taking office. Especially Reagan. And they didn't have nearly Trump's baggage. Trump is well know but not in a positive way. He's a joke. In fact, I can guarantee he won't win the Repub primary, much less the presidency. Won't even come close.
Like I said, Obama first came on the national scene during the 2004 DNC. Almost overnight he was a star and seen as presidential material. Anyone who didn't take him seriously after that was crazy. It helped that Jack Ryan had to drop out and they put that nut Keyes in as a replacement. But Obama had a 20 point lead in the polls before Ryan dropped out. And that was before his DNC speech. That seat was his regardless.
Makaho 2.0
++ Digital Assassin ++
Look at the date of the campaign flyer I did. That event was Sept. 9th 2004, the DNC convention was in July. He was only a household name amongst those that tuned in to hear his speech, and the politically savvy. You as well as I know most Americans are not politically savvy and more interested in who was on american idol in lieu of either parties convention.
Makaho 2.0
++ Digital Assassin ++
And you are equating being well known to not having a voice that can sway public opinion. I am not worried about Trump winning. Trump is a RINO, and if by some miracle he gets the nod I will be voting Libertarian in 2012. It's not a matter of YOU taking him seriously or not, if he has a voice and a vehicle behind him, he can be a thorn in Obama's side. Keep dismissing that clown if you want too.
- Status