Do HBCU's need to evolve with the times?


crazylegs

crazylegs

Da' Franchise...
Hey Y'all....


I recently wrote a published online article for Associated Content dealing with some of the challanges that HBCU Institutions face heading into the 21st century.

I'd really like to get some feedback from some of the wise folks of the SWACPAGE, and hopefully spark some real constructive dialogue in the process...

Here's the article:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/67800/hbcu_survival_reinventing_a_cultural.html

HBCU Survival: Re-Inventing A Cultural Institution

Again, any and all feedback (both here in this thread, or in the comment areas on the actual link) are greatly appreciated!!! :tup::tup:
 



A very apropos topic. HBCUs got our hands full against not the Alabamas, Auburns, Georgias, LSUs, Ole Misses, Tennessees of the world,, but more and more the Troys, UABs, Southern Misses, Georgia Southerns, Troy-Montgomery, Auburn-Montgomerys of the world, but everytime I have broached this topic in the past years since being on TSPN, I was BLASTED to smitherenes and laughed at, probably because of views totally unrelated to this topic. All I know is if you think we don't have our hands full and this is 1960 and prior when black high school graduates were forced to go to HBCUs and didn't have a choice unless they went outside the south, you better walk yo a-- around some of the Troy States, the UABs etc and see all the young black minds going there that in yesteryear would have been at Tuskegee/ASU/AAMU/Talladega/Stillman/Concordia/SelmaU/Miles/Oakwood etc.

WAKE UP for crying out loud. College is a "free market" today. Students have choices. You must be competitive. You can no longer rely on segregation and your historical status as an HBCU and black society in the south being pro-HBCUs for crying out loud. With DIVERSITY and MTV/VH1/BET comes the ability of joe-blow black high school grad to have options, especially if it comes down to basic cost analysis and all other things likd facilities considered.
 
Bartram said:
A very apropos topic. HBCUs got our hands full against not the Alabamas, Auburns, Georgias, LSUs, Ole Misses, Tennessees of the world,, but more and more the Troys, UABs, Southern Misses, Georgia Southerns, Troy-Montgomery, Auburn-Montgomerys of the world, but everytime I have broached this topic in the past years since being on TSPN, I was BLASTED to smitherenes and laughed at, probably because of views totally unrelated to this topic. All I know is if you think we don't have our hands full and this is 1960 and prior when black high school graduates were forced to go to HBCUs and didn't have a choice unless they went outside the south, you better walk yo a-- around some of the Troy States, the UABs etc and see all the young black minds going there that in yesteryear would have been at Tuskegee/ASU/AAMU/Talladega/Stillman/Concordia/SelmaU/Miles/Oakwood etc.

WAKE UP for crying out loud. College is a "free market" today. Students have choices. You must be competitive. You can no longer rely on segregation and your historical status as an HBCU and black society in the south being pro-HBCUs for crying out loud. With DIVERSITY and MTV/VH1/BET comes the ability of joe-blow black high school grad to have options, especially if it comes down to basic cost analysis and all other things likd facilities considered.
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I agree...
 
Bartram said:
A very apropos topic. HBCUs got our hands full against not the Alabamas, Auburns, Georgias, LSUs, Ole Misses, Tennessees of the world,, but more and more the Troys, UABs, Southern Misses, Georgia Southerns, Troy-Montgomery, Auburn-Montgomerys of the world, but everytime I have broached this topic in the past years since being on TSPN, I was BLASTED to smitherenes and laughed at, probably because of views totally unrelated to this topic. All I know is if you think we don't have our hands full and this is 1960 and prior when black high school graduates were forced to go to HBCUs and didn't have a choice unless they went outside the south, you better walk yo a-- around some of the Troy States, the UABs etc and see all the young black minds going there that in yesteryear would have been at Tuskegee/ASU/AAMU/Talladega/Stillman/Concordia/SelmaU/Miles/Oakwood etc.

WAKE UP for crying out loud. College is a "free market" today. Students have choices. You must be competitive. You can no longer rely on segregation and your historical status as an HBCU and black society in the south being pro-HBCUs for crying out loud. With DIVERSITY and MTV/VH1/BET comes the ability of joe-blow black high school grad to have options, especially if it comes down to basic cost analysis and all other things likd facilities considered.
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Spot on.
 
The competition is fierce. HBCUs cater to students who are attracted to the culture aspects it brings. Most kids today don't look at HBCUs the same way older alumni did. They don't see any special value in attending a HBCU versus a big name SEC or ACC school. The ones that kill me are the ones that go to schools like Georgia Southern, McNeese, Jacksonville State, etc.
 
jag4life said:
Most of the "amenities" at these schools are donated by alums and corporations that employ alums.
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yeah no kidding, that's why it is that much tuffer on HBCUs. when you got a Winton Blount(long time CEO of Blount Construction in Montgomery and an Auburn grad I think) that can "donate" a new civil engineering building to Auburn, while they tear down the existing civil engineering building that was built in the 50s or something(that Tuskegee would have to rennovate for the next 75 or so years) while Tuskegee has to go begging to the federal government/state of Alabama, hat in hand,, it's tight. And the black high school students can go to Auburn for a FRACTION of the cost of going to Tuskegee AND ENJOY INFINITELY BETTER FACILITIES AND RESOURCES??? i mean are you kidding me? it's tight. there's an intangible to an HBCU, I know that, i went to two, but i'm just saying, you break dat sh%t down to joe-blow black citizen now with all the options and the intangibles get lost pretty fast my friend.
 
Killer Bees said:
The competition is fierce. HBCUs cater to students who are attracted to the culture aspects it brings. Most kids today don't look at HBCUs the same way older alumni did. They don't see any special value in attending a HBCU versus a big name SEC or ACC school. The ones that kill me are the ones that go to schools like Georgia Southern, McNeese, Jacksonville State, etc.
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No they don't, and that's what HBCUs need to recognize. We can keep our original missions, but we have to remain competitive on simple things like customer(err, student) service, facilities, infrastructure.

It's tight when you can have all the best facilities, infastructure, resources AND,, AND MIND YOU, essentially the equivalent social environment (what with black frats and soros and other support orgs at PWCs) at PWCs at the same or lest cost.
 
Those HBCUs that aggressively recruit the good students can and have gotten them. I saw this at PV. Those that do not aggressively recruit the good students usually do not get them. I saw this at PV too.
 
I could write on and on about this subject, but this is what needs to happen.

1. HBCUs must understand that the "HBCU experience" is being outweighed by amenities, convenience, and "prestige" at larger, wealthier institutions. We can no longer assume that African American want the HBCU experience.

2. We cannot assume that Alumni will send their children back to an HBCU. I have black co-workers who attended PWIs, but had parents who attended HBCUs.... These parents did NOTHING to support or foster a desire for their children to attend an HBCU.

3. Colleges and Universities have a responsibility to educate, but also provide a lifestyle for the communities they are located. Traditionally, our community outreach goes has been having soup kitchens at Christmas, tutoring disadvantaged youth and bake sales. We must get out in the community and provide a "standard" of living for the entire community and not just the needy.

4. Universities are "businesses" with their own set of expectations and outcomes. We must be more than just degree-granting institutions. We must provide the resources for business to grow and generate well-established research.

5. Competition is great, but HBCUs disrespecting and discrediting one another is crazy. When white people hear us do that, it just sends another message that despite how educated we get, we never want the other to overstep us.

Like I said, I can go on and on, because when working for a large corporation, you appreciate ANY HBCU graduate doing their thing. From Alabama A&M to Xavier.. I have love for 'em all...

(Just a little more for Alcorn and A&T....lol)
 
One more that I forgot to mention is the surge of online degree accessibility. With these programs going online that requires little to no professor interaction, our students are falling in line with these programs instead of opting for HBCUs... so there's another obstacle.
 
Braveman12 said:
I could write on and on about this subject, but this is what needs to happen.

1. HBCUs must understand that the "HBCU experience" is being outweighed by amenities, convenience, and "prestige" at larger, wealthier institutions. We can no longer assume that African American want the HBCU experience.

2. We cannot assume that Alumni will send their children back to an HBCU. I have black co-workers who attended PWIs, but had parents who attended HBCUs.... These parents did NOTHING to support or foster a desire for their children to attend an HBCU.

3. Colleges and Universities have a responsibility to educate, but also provide a lifestyle for the communities they are located. Traditionally, our community outreach goes has been having soup kitchens at Christmas, tutoring disadvantaged youth and bake sales. We must get out in the community and provide a "standard" of living for the entire community and not just the needy.

4. Universities are "businesses" with their own set of expectations and outcomes. We must be more than just degree-granting institutions. We must provide the resources for business to grow and generate well-established research.

5. Competition is great, but HBCUs disrespecting and discrediting one another is crazy. When white people hear us do that, it just sends another message that despite how educated we get, we never want the other to overstep us.

Like I said, I can go on and on, because when working for a large corporation, you appreciate ANY HBCU graduate doing their thing. From Alabama A&M to Xavier.. I have love for 'em all...

(Just a little more for Alcorn and A&T....lol)
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dude, I have not heard of any HBCUs disrespecting and discrediting one another except for on sites like this, Onnidan and MFP basically running smack. we may be our own worst enemy in that regard.

When I left Tuskegee in 1987 and went to work in Fort Worth, most of my black co-workers were from Southern, PV, Grambling and TxSo. Later when I settled in L.A. my circles was Morgan State and NCA&T. There was nothing but support from all corners for each other post-college in those environments. There was the school pride and good natured run, but we used to be the main ones at each other's alumni functions and fund raisers supporting HBCUs like a MUTHA. It was all good. That was 87 to 91 and 93 to 97 doe; i don't know what it is like now that i'm not in a large metro area where there are large HBCU alumni factions.
 



Bartram said:
WAKE UP for crying out loud. College is a "free market" today. Students have choices. You must be competitive. You can no longer rely on segregation and your historical status as an HBCU and black society in the south being pro-HBCUs for crying out loud. With DIVERSITY and MTV/VH1/BET comes the ability of joe-blow black high school grad to have options, especially if it comes down to basic cost analysis and all other things likd facilities considered.
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I commented about a year ago on this topic and my feelings haven't changed. What I said then, I will say again ...


As someone who attended an HBCU for 2 years and transferred to/graduated from a PWC, I know for a FACT that there is a difference here.

Do PWC's have better, nicer facilities? Yep. do they have bigger endowment funds? In many cases, yes. Does any of that have any bearing on the level of professionalism that should be extended to HBCU students? Nope.

I was the Executive Director of my Fraternity for a number of years and I could write books on the nasty, condescending, unprofessional behavior I observed from Administrative and Support Staff at HBCU's. I also experienced this as a student. Paperwork lost. No return calls. Foul attitudes on the phone. The whole 9.

Somebody needs to tell our HBCU's that students have a CHOICE these days. Back in the day, Black kids had to deal with this because they had no other options. These days, "It's a Different World." These HBCU's are in a competitive marketplace and the student is the consumer.

If I run a retail store and I am nasty to my customers, they will take their business elsewhere. It's no different with colleges. tuition ain't cheap and there is no reason to spend your money where it isn't respected.

Don't get me wrong - I am not anti-HBCU. There are hundeds of thousands of black folk who wouldn't have a degree if not for the existence of HBCU's. There are thousands of folk who wouldn't have made it without the support of an HBCU environment -- especially those HBCU instructors who took a personal interest and would NOT LET you fail.

Still, we have a responsibility to treat each other with respect and dignity. These HBCU administrations need to look in the mirror and then check themselves.
 
ChicagoJag said:
I commented about a year ago on this topic and my feelings haven't changed. What I said then, I will say again ...


As someone who attended an HBCU for 2 years and transferred to/graduated from a PWC, I know for a FACT that there is a difference here.

Do PWC's have better, nicer facilities? Yep. do they have bigger endowment funds? In many cases, yes. Does any of that have any bearing on the level of professionalism that should be extended to HBCU students? Nope.

I was the Executive Director of my Fraternity for a number of years and I could write books on the nasty, condescending, unprofessional behavior I observed from Administrative and Support Staff at HBCU's. I also experienced this as a student. Paperwork lost. No return calls. Foul attitudes on the phone. The whole 9.

Somebody needs to tell our HBCU's that students have a CHOICE these days. Back in the day, Black kids had to deal with this because they had no other options. These days, "It's a Different World." These HBCU's are in a competitive marketplace and the student is the consumer.

If I run a retail store and I am nasty to my customers, they will take their business elsewhere. It's no different with colleges. tuition ain't cheap and there is no reason to spend your money where it isn't respected.

Don't get me wrong - I am not anti-HBCU. There are hundeds of thousands of black folk who wouldn't have a degree if not for the existence of HBCU's. There are thousands of folk who wouldn't have made it without the support of an HBCU environment -- especially those HBCU instructors who took a personal interest and would NOT LET you fail.

Still, we have a responsibility to treat each other with respect and dignity. These HBCU administrations need to look in the mirror and then check themselves.
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That kinda where I was at when I thought about writing on this particular topic...I had a run-in (of sorts) of my own when I was looking for a program with a decent online/distance education program to further my studies. One of the first places I checked out was Howard U., since I'm from this area. My 'visit' to the Admissions department of the school was an 'eye opener' to say the least...*smh*

I inquired about the aforementioned programs and the folks there not only told me that there were 'none' to be found there, but also strongly hinted that the adult student/working grad student was not really welcome at their institution to begin with... :retard: :smh: :xeye:

That rubbed me a bit raw, so I did some comparisons between them and some of the other HBCU schools in the region...More often than not, there wasn't even infrastructure in place to facilitate accomodating that type of student.

This is by no means representative of all HBCU institutions ( there are quite a few that are really ahead of the curve in this regard), but there still enough that have this type of mentality for us to be worried collectively.

To me, there's absolutely no reason we shouldn't compete with the PWC's of this world for our best and brightest. Unfortunately, many schools are in that 'entitlement' mode in terms of attracting students of color to our schools.

It also has alot to do with perceptions that these kids pick up from other sources (i.e. parents, admin/grads from non-hbcu schools, etc).

It just amazed me that our schools (collectively) are lagging behind so much in specific areas when they shouldn't be.

Thank you guys for the input so far; keep it coming!!! :tup:
 
Man, I love my undergrad Tuskegee to death, send money to it, but i'll flatout tell ya, from 82 to 87 them was the most unprofessional mugz I have ever delt with in my life. I just figured that was part of going to an HBCU (cause heck my parents had the same experience going to ASU in the 50s), you adjust to it, deal with it, find every advantage you can (like when my roomie started working in financial aid, he11 that cut out having to deal wit dem mofos every semester trying to get my class cards and financial aid and such because I'd get em through back channels and relax and go fishing while the other underclass shmucks were running the gauntlet frustrated fooling wit the madness :swink: ) and get through it, but today when I tried to sell my niece on going to an HBCU (Tuskegee) and she didn't even get her paperwork and all back in a timely manner (she finally heard back, but by then she had made her decision on a PWC) and got all her stuff back from a PWC promptly and she had such a hastle trying to deal with Tuskegee admin on the phone, welp, it was no contest. AND THIS IS MY ALMA MATER I'M TALKING ABOUT, SO THIS IS NOT SMACKING ANYBODY! :smh:
 
See Bart,


Alot of folks don't understand that those little things make all the difference in the world, especially when it comes to attracting today's student.

It bothers me a bit because there's really no reason for ANY of our institutions to NOT dot the "i's" and cross the "t's". Perception means alot and right now, overall perception is something that's making the job of recruiting harder than it should be...
 
Yes HBCUs MUST evolve with the times or they will become satellites of hte schools who did evolve. Alumni keep pushing, keep holding their feet to the fire and keep protesting their bullshaty ways. AND while you are doing that PRESENT A POTENTIAL PLAN to help the school. Ain't nothing worse than bytching and moaning without a solution. Bytch then offer a VIABLE solution. And of course, support your alma mater. Not that $35 alumni fee either. Put some money behind your complaining mouth and show them how it should be done...
 
chocalate_topaz said:
Yes HBCUs MUST evolve with the times or they will become satellites of hte schools who did evolve. Alumni keep pushing, keep holding their feet to the fire and keep protesting their bullshaty ways. AND while you are doing that PRESENT A POTENTIAL PLAN to help the school. Ain't nothing worse than bytching and moaning without a solution. Bytch then offer a VIABLE solution. And of course, support your alma mater. Not that $35 alumni fee either. Put some money behind your complaining mouth and show them how it should be done...
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Don't just hold the schools' feet to the fire. Do the same for the boards of regents and the state governments as well.

Yes, we must have a solution and act on that solution.
 
I loved the article. Very good reading. Its a debate I CONSTANTLY have with my peers...and the only thing that seems to carry me over is that I attended 2 HBCU's and a PWC. At the PWC I can say they WORKED me, but I'm realizing it paid off. The issues I had with registration didnt exist because they didnt 'coddle' me and 'force' me to sit down with them and go over a catalog....you're in college and an ADULT and thats how we were treated. If your dumbazz registered for courses you didnt need, you wasted YOUR money. Andddd...the tuition was wayyyyyyyyyyy cheaper...when with some of the HBCU's its almost like the history and name you are paying for. I've learned from being in the working field, even the most 'elite' HBCU is still viewed as 'one of the black schools'. But my cultural and social experiences at the HBCU's I would not change. Thats a damn shame...now that I'm thinking about it. :xeye:
 
Lady Rebel said:
I loved the article. Very good reading. Its a debate I CONSTANTLY have with my peers...and the only thing that seems to carry me over is that I attended 2 HBCU's and a PWC. At the PWC I can say they WORKED me, but I'm realizing it paid off. The issues I had with registration didnt exist because they didnt 'coddle' me and 'force' me to sit down with them and go over a catalog....you're in college and an ADULT and thats how we were treated. If your dumbazz registered for courses you didnt need, you wasted YOUR money. Andddd...the tuition was wayyyyyyyyyyy cheaper...when with some of the HBCU's its almost like the history and name you are paying for. I've learned from being in the working field, even the most 'elite' HBCU is still viewed as 'one of the black schools'. But my cultural and social experiences at the HBCU's I would not change. Thats a damn shame...now that I'm thinking about it. :xeye:
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I will not say that the academic advising at an HBCU is perfect. But the non-advising at the PWCs is a problem to me. Yes, the student is an adult and should be treated as an adult. But the faculty member knows more about the course the student is about to take than the student does. Some students know very little about what they should take. This is why I feel that academic advising is necessary. Should it be improved? It sure should be. But the non-advising should basically be eliminated.

As for taking the wrong course, the student would be wasting their (or whoever's) money. But they are also wasting taxpayers' money. Consider this. Part of the total cost for a student to attend school is covered by taxes. In Texas the state made it to where schools had to graduate their graduate students in a shorter amount of time or lose money. Why? The state did not want to keep paying money for the students to stay in school. So the incentive for professors (at least those who did it) to keep working their students was reduced.

I also think that the big PWCs not advising their students like HBCUs is because PWCs are research one universities that mostly do not emphasize the undergraduate education like HBCUs do. Yes, HBCUs more and more must concentrate on research. They know about the statement: Publish or perish. But professors at the big schools at there mostly to bring in the research dollars.

Of course if one is at a school like Texas A&M, then they would be at a school of 43000 students. I am not up to date on the numbers. But over the last 12 years, engineering had over 7000 students, education had over 4900 students, and the business school had over 5400. In 1992 PV had about 5500 students total.

Many who have attended a large PWCs and an HBCU have said that the teaching at the HBCU was better. I also think that the size, student:teacher ratio, has a lot to do with it. Look at my previous paragraph. True, there is some bad teaching at an HBCU. But the big schools have had their problems with teaching on the undergraduate level.

I have been in both environments. Despite the problems that exist an HBCUs and there are many, I favor them socially as well as academically (HBCU experience, amenities, and the rest). Yes, the big PWCs are better funded, which is one reason why their tuition is relatively cheaper. But the grass is not necessarily greener on the other side.
 
EB,


Much of what you said is the very reason we should be doing better (collectively) than what we see currently. There shouldn't be an appearent absence of one positive factor in lieu of another one.

Amenities shouldn't be as powerful a lure as it has been; It wouldn't be if those infrastructure issues at our institutions were in place. Again, this doesn't refer to every HBCU institution; You've got a few that have figured it out, but not enough just yet to change the overall perception that some schools have to fight to get rid of outside of the HBCU community.

It really boils down to getting folks in the right places to do the right type of job, whether that be the getting rid of the rude arse lady in financial aid, or getting a qualified compliance officer for the athletic department. Those are things that these schools and their BOT's need to be held accountable for.
 
I think part of the trouble is that so many of our black schools are viewed as jokes.

We have Paul Quinn in Dallas and you can't even say the name of the school without getting laughed at. It has so much trouble with money and is in academic probation. And it had the nerve to issue a dress code for all students and about 100 transfered in protest.
More people are excited about The University of Texas at Dallas school that just opened right down the street from it. And it's just two buildings next to a service road.

Also it doesn't help when the only thing most of our schools are known for is parties, stomping the yard and bands. I thkn Stomp the Yrad and Rumline did more to enforce this image and the only thing that gets hyped up about Grambling vs PV is the bands not the game.
Most parents aren't going to pay for their child to go to a party school. And yes white schools are the same, however you can probably find more of thier grads vs HBCU ones in the workforce.

And I would like HBCU to be more active in the public schools. I see ever school and military group come to my school to recruit students. Yet the HBCU are nowhere to be found.
 
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