Another SCG/Playoff comparison


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The Spurs do not play in the Alamodome. The Big 12 championship has only been held there twice. I just think the cost will outweigh the benefits. The Alamodome is vacant most of the year every year. Increased convention space might be a good thing for San Antonio because it has been a tourist/convention destination for years. I do not believe Birmingham can be a major player in that arena due in part to its proximity to Atlanta.
 
Storm96 said:
The Spurs do not play in the Alamodome. The Big 12 championship has only been held there twice. I just think the cost will outweigh the benefits. The Alamodome is vacant most of the year every year. Increased convention space might be a good thing for San Antonio because it has been a tourist/convention destination for years. I do not believe Birmingham can be a major player in that arena due in part to its proximity to Atlanta.
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No the Spurs don't, but the powers in San Antonio used the Alamodome as a bargaining chip to keep the Spurs there and attempt to attract other pro franchises. Yep, I made the point the Big 12 was not there more than the first two seasons. The BJCC is not vacant most of the year, so I don't see that as an issue. Quite the contrary on the proximity of Atlanta. The proximity of Los Angeles has no baring on Los Vegas or Pheonix. It would have if they would have had the same mentality you have. Chattanooga for crying out loud has a simple acquarium that is a huge success.

Birmingham has its own niche to fill that a dome and more/larger conventions(,, just like those that poured into Atlanta after they build the Georgia World Congress Center (? name) in the late 70s/early 80s) will help fill. Actually the proximity to Atlanta is a plus because when people/tourists go to all those tourist attractions in Atlanta (heck, even going through the airport in atlanta what do i see?? i see civil rights displays full of names and places in Alabama/Birmingham on them.), what do they see at every corner,,, "Birmingham", "Montgomery", "Selma", "Alabama", and they can make the roadie or make plans to visit these places because of exposure to them at the tourist attractions in Atlanta. Couldn't disagree with you more on your Atlanta take. Also, the proximity of Atlanta has not adversely affected Nashville or Jacksonville.
 



Solid game. Sad and horrible field conditions for a championship game organized by the NCAA. The commentators talked about it all night and keep count of the number of takles the field made. The various news outlets talked about it also on their highlights of the game. That was huge if not dumb mistake on the personal foul punch to the face by the Montana player on a 2nd down uncompleted pass that would have made it 3rd and goal from the like forever.

JMU 0 10 14 7 Total 31
UM 7 0 14 0 Total 21

Final

ATTENDANCE: 16,771
 
Jafus (Thinker) said:
ATTENDANCE: 16,771
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Just think if Montana had not made it. They need to move that game. Just like we need to move ours. Overall good game though. All statements made by Jafus were true though. The field was flying every where the whole game. I've never seen a field look so good and then go so bad in one game.
 
The field did suck, and UTC is supposed to be putting in a field turf surface this offseason.

In fairness, Legion Field's playing surface was garbage for the SCG as well. Maybe not sod coming up in clumps, but it was a mud pit with not a lot of grass between the hashes.
 
PNeck,

I guess you don't understand. The stats provided aren't comparable. It?s like comparing the swim time of exotic fish in a huge fish tank at a museum to those in ocean near an island. It's like comparing Citibank?s year end statements to Microsoft and in both cases say this is why we need to combine the two. Though they look similar, the environments and driving force and what make life worth something is different as it relates to those stats.

It means something to win our conference championship game against a rival school or a black college national championship game against a national rival to close out the year. You see we work with, talk with, socialize with, etc... other HBCU alums all year and it is a good thing to have the bragging rights.

On the financial side of things, it simply never adds up to participate in the prostituting NCAA's playoff system. It is designed for NCAA to take home the money and the schools to take home the bills. No thank you. It is designed, as most NCAA bracketing, to play heavily to the advantage of their favored coaches/teams to have a serious advantage in matchups and locations, whereas others, especially HBCUs are on the shortend of the matchups and especially locations. No respect; No thanks!

More HBCU and other non-HBCU Division I-AA teams are scheduling each other for regular season games. Perhaps this is sign that some respect is beginning to be established (key word beginning). Yet, we are far from being in a situation where the NCAA's Division 1-AA football playoffs will make sense for an HBCU to submit itself to participate. At this time, it is far more beneficial for us to refine our conference championships and establish a true Black College National Championship Game.

So again, no thanks.
 
..are you going to support your teams, or going to get drunk and shake @zz all day and night?
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All of the above, ( i don't really drink, though) Don't think that losing stopped the party. After the game, I the spot I hit was Club Platinum, in the downtown area. We didn't leave til about 4 a.m. Losing ain't gonna ever stop the party!!!
 
SWAC Championship Game (in a off year)
Att: 22,327

1AA Championship Game
Att: 16,771
 
Fiyah said:
SWAC Championship Game (in a off year)
Att: 22,327

1AA Championship Game
Att: 16,771
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Driving distance from:

Montgomery, AL to Birmingham, AL: 91 miles
Baton Rouge, LA to Birmingham, AL: 400 miles

Harrisonburg, VA to Chattanooga, TN: 468 miles
Missoula, MT to Chattanooga, TN: 2,107 miles
 
Fiyah said:
SWAC Championship Game (in a off year)
Att: 22,327

1AA Championship Game
Att: 16,771
Click to expand...

LOL, and to think, this was one of the more well-attended national championship games in a while. When McNeese made it to Chatanooga, there were only 12,000 people in attendace.

Why do they play this game on a Friday, anyway? That's stupid as hell. In some parts of the country this game is competing with high school playoffs and state championships.
 
My guess on why they play on Fridays is because there are the NFL games on Saturday at this time of the year. Add that the D-III game was at 11 AM on Saturday instead of 12:30 or 3:30 EST, maybe another reason.
 
SAME OLD G said:
National TV Time (ESPN 2)
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I'd rather have the D-III Saturday time slot on ESPN2. I would imagine that many people don't follow their schools to this game because of their work schedules.
 
PNeck019 said:
Driving distance from:

Montgomery, AL to Birmingham, AL: 91 miles
Baton Rouge, LA to Birmingham, AL: 400 miles

Harrisonburg, VA to Chattanooga, TN: 468 miles
Missoula, MT to Chattanooga, TN: 2,107 miles
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PNeck,

Just look at the history of the game and it's attendance. History of I-AA What does the pattern of attendance at past I-AA Championship Games tell you?

This game has had attendance over 20,000 people in 8 out of the 27 times it has been held. Out of those 8 times, six times one of teams in the game was playing on their home field. Meaning that only twice has this game gotten over 20,000 when neither team was playing in their own stadium. Only once has this game gotten 20,000 in Chattanooga. It is not the place to be.

I believe it's Chattanooga, TN not the distance. The time slot does not help any also because it prevents more people from being able to go to the game than would. I think the game has potential but not where it is now. This game should average at least 25,000 to 30,000. But, it would have to be on a Saturday, in a warmer climate, in a place that is easy to fly in and out of, and in a stadium that is condusive to the I-AA environment.
 



OK, but what does attendance mean? What does it translate to? We brag about winning the attendance title for the umpteenth time and what has it gotten us? Damn sure not teams that are competitive with these teams whose attendance we ridicule, and in most cases, not even facilities equal to these schools.

The real money for athletic programs does not come from ticket sales. It comes from donations. Maybe if we curtailed having our fans spend thousands of dollars globetrotting to follow our teams to XYZ Classics, maybe they'd put those dollars into the athletic programs. Probably not, but all this attendance that we brag about is not translating to performance.
 
Attendance is good for individual schools. That's money that that one school keeps to itself and benefits from. But attendance for the championship game ain't about jack when you splitting it 10 ways after the conference covers its expenses. Besides, if one of our schools were ever good enough to make the playoff title game, maybe attendance would be in the 30-40k range. Damn sure can't expect Montana and New Hampshire to have a big crowd in Chattanooga, TN.
 
Robber,

Attendance is good for individual schools. That's money that that one school keeps to itself and benefits from. But attendance for the championship game ain't about jack when you splitting it 10 ways after the conference covers its expenses. Besides, if one of our schools were ever good enough to make the playoff title game, maybe attendance would be in the 30-40k range. Damn sure can't expect Montana and New Hampshire to have a big crowd in Chattanooga, TN.
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Well that is the analysis based, it most be worse for a championship game that has to split it between 109+ schools after the NCAA covers its expense. I really, do not have a problem with the NCAA when it makes since with regards to the function of the university financial operation.

It is simple the NCAA Division I Football Committee does not truly support or care about the NCAA Division I AA football competition or they would simply do better with reagrds to management and the operations of the NCAA Division I AA football including the playoffs.
 
Jafus (Thinker) said:
Robber,



Well that is the analysis based, it most be worse for a championship game that has to split it between 109+ schools after the NCAA covers its expense. I really, do not have a problem with the NCAA when it makes since with regards to the function of the university financial operation.

It is simple the NCAA Division I Football Committee does not truly support or care about the NCAA Division I AA football competition or they would simply do better with reagrds to management and the operations of the NCAA Division I AA football including the playoffs.
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Do you feel the same about Divisions II and III? Because they're run the same way. Or is only I-AA getting screwed, just because that happens to be the division the SWAC is in?

Question for anybody:

If the SWAC had had any success in the playoffs, would you still be so critical of the playoffs?

I don't hear people on hear crying about the NCAA playoffs in any of the other sports. Should, say, the SWAC not participate in the NCAA volleyball tournament or golf tournament because they don't make money?

And, like others, I'd like to see some hard figures on just how much loot each program makes or loses. I doubt there's a significant difference between your average SWAC program and your average other I-AA program, despite the SWAC's attendance situation. There can't possibly be. If there was, after all these years of making all that money, every SWAC school would have top notch campuses, facilities, etc.
 
First of all, there has only been one SCG game where the weather was good, and that was in 1999 when SU and JSU played. Secondly, with a SU loss to GSU and Bama State loss to Skegee, Bama State and SU didn't play for the National Black Championship. We played each other earlier in the season and along with Coe's statements and the way Bama State played against PB, this nearly killed the spirits of a lot of people. I can tell you that the ASU loss to Skegee killed about 5,000 ASU fans from attending the SCG. I know a lot of people who didn't attend the SCG for those very reasons. Some of those statements were made exactly one week before the SCG in the Montgomery Advertiser.
 
PNeck019 said:
OK, but what does attendance mean? What does it translate to? We brag about winning the attendance title for the umpteenth time and what has it gotten us? Damn sure not teams that are competitive with these teams whose attendance we ridicule, and in most cases, not even facilities equal to these schools.

The real money for athletic programs does not come from ticket sales. It comes from donations. Maybe if we curtailed having our fans spend thousands of dollars globetrotting to follow our teams to XYZ Classics, maybe they'd put those dollars into the athletic programs. Probably not, but all this attendance that we brag about is not translating to performance.
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Attendance means a lot for this game, which is what I am referring to; not attendance titles nor individual schools attendance. If I-AA fans do not show interest in the game (which they obviously don't), neither will tv networks or sponsers. More people at the game changes the venue from Chatty, TN to a warmer more fan friendly environment, changes from Friday night on ESPN2 to Saturday night on ESPN, changes the number of sponsers and amounts given, and all this changes the overall value of the game and hopefully the view the SWAC has of it. :smh:

And, to let you know... The other sports that you mention are non-revenue sports unlike football. So, not making money from those are expected.
 
PNeck019,

Do you feel the same about Divisions II and III? Because they're run the same way. Or is only I-AA getting screwed, just because that happens to be the division the SWAC is in?

Question for anybody:

If the SWAC had had any success in the playoffs, would you still be so critical of the playoffs?
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Yes, I feel the same way about NCAA Division II and NCAA Division III, compared to what is compromised for NCAA Division I A programs. I do believe it is worse when you consider the facts that NCAA Division I AA is under the same Division I banner as the NCAA Division I A programs.


I don't hear people on hear crying about the NCAA playoffs in any of the other sports. Should, say, the SWAC not participate in the NCAA volleyball tournament or golf tournament because they don't make money?
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I do not openly complain about the other NCAA Division I program playoffs other than basketball with they play-in game because they are ran the same for all NCAA Division I conferences. There is'nt a difference in the financial allocation for different conferences or level with-in the other Division I sports.

And, like others, I'd like to see some hard figures on just how much loot each program makes or loses. I doubt there's a significant difference between your average SWAC program and your average other I-AA program, despite the SWAC's attendance situation. There can't possibly be. If there was, after all these years of making all that money, every SWAC school would have top notch campuses, facilities, etc.
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I respectfully disagree. There is a complex and unique difference between the two. So different that it would difficult to explain over the internet in as couple of paragraphs.
 
PNeck019 said:
Question for anybody:

I don't hear people on hear crying about the NCAA playoffs in any of the other sports. Should, say, the SWAC not participate in the NCAA volleyball tournament or golf tournament because they don't make money?
Click to expand...

You're talking apples and oranges.......football is the major revenue source for all those other sports like golf, volleyball, tennis, etc.
 
Jafus (Thinker) said:
PNeck019,



Yes, I feel the same way about NCAA Division II and NCAA Division III, compared to what is compromised for NCAA Division I A programs. I do believe it is worse when you consider the facts that NCAA Division I AA is under the same Division I banner as the NCAA Division I A programs.
.
Click to expand...


The difference there is that there is no NCAA championship in Division I-A football.

As for the playoffs, it really makes me no difference one way or the other if the SWAC participates or not. Nor does my opinion mean anything in the grand scheme of things.

I just think it sounds a bit disingenuous for SWAC folks to decry the playoffs so much in light of the lack of success.

I'll ask again in a different way. If the SWAC had had the success of say, the Gateway in the playoffs, would these opinions be the same?

I have a difficult time believing they would if say Grambling had won a title and JSU, Southern, and Alcorn made periodic runs to the semis or finals.

But when one of your better teams gets 70-plus put on it, what does that say?

And don't give me "SWAC teams beat up on each other so much they had nothing left". It's no more than Montana gets in the Big Sky or Georgia Southern gets in the SoCon.
 
PNeck019,

I can only answer for myself. Unequivocally Yes!! Because my thoughts are not based some emotional plea, as you are alluded too. My reasons are bases on financial issues along with the current NCAA guidelines that would not allow SWAC nor the Big South Conference (once the gain a 6th member) or the Great West Football Conference an automatic bid to participate in the playoffs.

As a Consultant, it does not make financial sense for Southern University and Grambling State University to change the concepts nor parameters of Bayou Classic at this time at least not until the NCAA make provisions for such that it changes the complexity of only half the field (currently 8 of 16 participants) gaining automatics bids to the Championship Tournament.

1) The current NCAA rules on automatics bids preclude the entire conference from earning an automatic bid.
 
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