South Carolina State is considering dropping their men's basketball program:

[JROCK]

Did I not just post that exact same thing? I just said that they provide an avenue for us to perform and get exposure. Is that not what you are saying?

Recruiting however is just a part of the process. You can have 1000 people in your band, and still not be good. It is more than just recruiting and exposure that makes a band program good. The other stuff comes from the ability of the director to get his/her students to buy in and perform at a high level. That's what I have been saying since my first post on this topic, but you are too sports-driven to read and comprehend what I have been saying. Ya'll are giving too much credit to the football team for that.

Just like how with football, recruiting is only part of the task of having a successful program, band is the same thing. Ya'll need to get out of your feelings and learn how to comprehend before flaming on here.

No one is "flaming," I am just giving you some hard core facts that you don't like and don't care for the way that it's stated. Hell yeah, the band isn't "jack" without the football program in terms of being noticed, basketball will never win a head to head battle with the football program at most of our schools and will NEVER have the type of impact in the recruiting arena......Sorry if you don't like it but, "it is what it is."

 

[JAG89]

It would be nice to see how much SCState spends on its band program. :idea:

 

[JROCK]

You drop football, and that band program will still have its concert band programs to rely on.

And how does a "concert band" relate to the topic and what HBCU is dumb enough to have a football team without a marching band? Are you saying the concert band will play at basketball games that would elevate basketball programs to the level of football programs and the student recruiting component? Juxtapose what you're saying to the topic of the thread.....

 

[Tigerpride]

No one is "flaming," I am just giving you some hard core facts that you don't like and don't care for the way that it's stated. Hell yeah, the band isn't "jack" without the football program in terms of being noticed, basketball will never win a head to head battle with the football program at most of our schools and will NEVER have the type of impact in the recruiting arena......Sorry if you don't like it but, "it is what it is."

JRock,

Since number1 is not a good smacker, he is letting you divert.. LOL
He simply corrected you when you said SCState had a good band then you went on a tangent and threw him away from his ORIGINAL point. :lol:

Now back to the topic...

 

[Bleedbluefan]

No one is "flaming," I am just giving you some hard core facts that you don't like and don't care for the way that it's stated. Hell yeah, the band isn't "jack" without the football program in terms of being noticed, basketball will never win a head to head battle with the football program at most of our schools and will NEVER have the type of impact in the recruiting arena......Sorry if you don't like it but, "it is what it is."

in this day and age.....you will have 3 people at the game without the band. so "football" aint jack without the band unless we are talking about true die-hards.

 

[JROCK]

JRock,

Since number1 is not a good smacker, he is letting you divert.. LOL
He simply corrected you when you said SCState had a good band then you went on a tangent and threw him away from his ORIGINAL point. :lol:

Now back to the topic...

No one is here "smacking." How good SCST band is not the point. The point is it is a recruiting tool that is fueled by the football team. Basketball cannot match this @ SCST.....geesh

 

[JROCK]

in this day and age.....you will have 3 people at the game without the band. so "football" aint jack without the band unless we are talking about true die-hards.

What you're saying is a moot point. Juxtapose your point to the topic of the thread then elaborate.

 

[number1]

It would be nice to see how much SCState spends on its band program. :idea:

I never made it a band vs. football argument. All I am saying is some people give too much credit to football, ignoring the other things that it takes to make a good band program.

 

[number1]

And how does a "concert band" relate to the topic and what HBCU is dumb enough to have a football team without a marching band? Are you saying the concert band will play at basketball games that would elevate basketball programs to the level of football programs and the student recruiting component? Juxtapose what you're saying to the topic of the thread.....

Now who's getting off-topic. This all started because I said SC State wasn't a good band, you took it to another level. lol

 

[JROCK]

I never made it a band vs. football argument. All I am saying is some people give too much credit to football, ignoring the other things that it takes to make a good band program.

Dude get out of here. :lol: :emlaugh: Someone stated that basketball trumps football financially and should be dropped before basketball. I illustrated how it doesn't compare recruiting wise which the band play a role in. You want to try to belittle SCST band as not being "good." However that's beside the point, they are a recruiting tool that's fueled by the football program that the basketball program cannot match. Like I said, Ohio State make all of you look like Jackasses so who are you to put down any program, but that is another topic.....for another day...

 

[JAG89]

I never made it a band vs. football argument. All I am saying is some people give too much credit to football, ignoring the other things that it takes to make a good band program.

What I was getting at, maybe SCState can trim the budget on its band and cut those athletic programs that most people won't miss without dropping its men's basketball program and dropping down to D2. I believe SCState's band is approximately a 350 member unit, which is a huge drain on their travel budget. Although SCState is probably in the most idea location for the MEAC, it would take 7 to 8 buses just to transport the band to away games.

 

[number1]

What I was getting at, maybe SCState can trim the budget on its band and cut those athletic programs that most people won't miss without dropping its men's basketball program and dropping down to D2. I believe SCState's band is approximately a 350 member unit, which is a huge drain on their travel budget. Although SCState is probably in the most idea location for the MEAC, it would take 7 to 8 buses just to transport the band to away games.

You have to also look at how many trips does SC State band take for the football program. I know the FBS schools' bands might take their full band to 1 away game, and these are schools with multi-million dollar budgets. Even at SU our band has cut down traveling to all of the away games, and we aren't even at 200 members and only use 4 buses. I can imagine their situation. But there's a chance that SC State's band may also pay for their own travel too since our bands can generate funds on their own(if that's alright with Jrock for me to mention) with performances in various venues, hosting band camps, etc......

 

[number1]

Dude get out of here. :lol: :emlaugh: Someone stated that basketball trumps football financially and should be dropped before basketball. I illustrated how it doesn't compare recruiting wise which the band play a role in. You want to try to belittle SCST band as not being "good." However that's beside the point, they are a recruiting tool that's fueled by the football program that the basketball program cannot match. Like I said, Ohio State make all of you look like Jackasses so who are you to put down any program, but that is another topic.....for another day...

They make us look like jackasses, yet our band is mentioned in the same league as Ohio State, Michigan, USC, etc...... and that is with a fraction of the millions of dollars of funding that their bands have. Can the HBCU football programs say the same? Oops too far.........

 

[JAG89]

You have to also look at how many trips does SC State band take for the football program. I know the FBS schools' bands might take their full band to 1 away game, and these are schools with multi-million dollar budgets. Even at SU our band has cut down traveling to all of the away games, and we aren't even at 200 members and only use 4 buses. I can imagine their situation. But there's a chance that SC State's band may also pay for their own travel too since our bands can generate funds on their own(if that's alright with Jrock for me to mention) with performances in various venues, hosting band camps, etc......

No matter if they travel or not, I'm sure the university issues scholarships to band members. Issuing 100 scholarships is a lot less than issuing 200 scholarships.

 

[JSU/99]

You drop football, and that band program will still have its concert band programs to rely on.

Drop football and no one will ever see the band perform. It would be just like having the best HBCU choir.

 

[JSU/99]

in this day and age.....you will have 3 people at the game without the band. so "football" aint jack without the band unless we are talking about true die-hards.

Wrong. A good band certainly helps, but check out JSU football during Bell's last days. The football team is always the main draw. Everything comes from that.

 

[2kool]

LMAOOOOO! Ya'll ain't have to stick ole boy on a kabob like that :lmao:

 

[jsupop33]

Man, that picture number 1 posted hilarious.

 

[number1]

No matter if they travel or not, I'm sure the university issues scholarships to band members. Issuing 100 scholarships is a lot less than issuing 200 scholarships.

Well then you are going to have to also find out how many receive band scholarships. They may have 300 members with only 100 receiving a band scholarship, 50 might be receiving a music scholarship which has to deal with the academic side of band (different than a band scholarship), another 50 might be receiving an academic scholarship from the school, and some may be receiving scholarships from other programs. Some may not receive a scholarship at all. Again speaking from personal experience, the majority of our band at SU does not receive a band scholarship. SC State may be the same. And they may even self-generate some of the funds for those university-issued scholarships too.

 

[number1]

Man, that picture number 1 posted hilarious.

I already know you are going to use it in the future. lol

 

[Oracle]

:tup:

Dropping football @ SCST would be akin to a self inflicted wound. Too many people just look at that little money in athletics and forget it is a university first. The football program @ SCST has benefits that can't be seen strictly in an athletic budget. The basketball program on the other hand would not have as adverse of an impact on the university enrollment wise compared to football which also has a direct trail to the band......

Basketball can have a huge impact on school identification, exposure and enrollment. The teams just have to win big. Gonzaga was an obscure little school until it began winning in the NCAA tournament. Since then, it has obtained name recognition and enrollment has jumped significantly.

 

[Kendrick]

Gonzaga's endowment is $121 million. SCSU's is $5 million. Apple to orange.

 

[Oracle]

Gonzaga's endowment is $121 million. SCSU's is $5 million. Apple to orange.

Gonzaga's basketball is not big because of the endowment; the endowment is big because of the success of the basketball team.


http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/nov/24/gonzaga-universitys-basketball-success-fuels/


"Gonzaga University’s basketball team has netted more than just wins in the past 15 years.

The Zags have spawned a transformation of a tiny, struggling college into a national brand and a money magnet.

The Jesuit liberal arts college enrolled 7,605 students this fall, 82 percent more than the 4,185 who attended classes in 1999.

Donors have swollen the college’s coffers to $173.3 million, nearly doubling its endowment. The university’s budget has almost tripled.

And generous pledges have enabled Gonzaga to build a $25 million basketball arena, a baseball complex, student apartments, an applied science building and other projects. A $60 million student center is under construction.

“Gonzaga was really suffering (in 1999),” said Don Herak, a trustee emeritus and major donor. “The basketball team was the catalyst for changing Gonzaga.”....


“Basketball – that’s how I heard about Gonzaga. I visited and got a good vibe,” said Gene Dawydiak, a Gonzaga senior and San Francisco native. Once enrolled, however, “I was disappointed it wasn’t as Catholic as I thought it would be; 99.9 percent of the time I forget it’s a Catholic school until I see a crucifix.”

Outside the fame and financial gain fostered by the Zags’ on-court success, the face of the university is changing.

• The number of minority undergraduates at Gonzaga has doubled to 1 in 5 students in the past 10 years.

• About 17 percent of undergraduate students received Pell Grants this school year, up 5 percentage points from seven years ago.

• Students who are the first in their family to attend college now make up 18.4 percent of the freshman class.

• About 95 percent of students receive some sort of financial aid.

• The school is led by its first non-Jesuit president, Thayne McCulloh.

Gonzaga’s student population has grown so fast the college has to secure rooms at a nearby hotel for housing. More than 3,000 students live on or near the 131-acre campus in 16 residence halls, eight apartment complexes and numerous houses in the Logan neighborhood.

 

[JR]

No matter if they travel or not, I'm sure the university issues scholarships to band members. Issuing 100 scholarships is a lot less than issuing 200 scholarships.

Ain't nobody doing that these days for band programs. Not even my Ohio State Buckeyes. Alot of kids in the band programs at PWCs and HBCUs play for the love of band. It ain't like the old days. SC State ain't handing schollys like that for Marching Band. You don't need to. Hell Doc didn't even have all us on schollys back in the day. If you could play, he would give you money, more money if he really liked you. Most of our kids were POOR KIDS from New Orleans and they had OTHER monies coming in so they were able to get in school. These days, most band programs including SU even before Doc retired were giving less and less band scholarships. That's why you see some decline in a lot of band programs. Ain't no money. Now what the MEAC does do better than the SWAC is PAY their band directors a bunch of money. Most of them cats are SWAC grads and it is hard to get them back once they taste that East Coast money. LOL. But that is another subject.

 

[JR]

LOL at this whole topic turning to a band vs football. Well at least both of my alma maters are said to have the best 2 bands in the country. And what Ohio State does. Some HBCUs could do it if these old band directors were not lazy and stuck on the same ole same. We were innovative back in the day and did that kind of stuff. Nothing is new that TBDBITL is doing. Just was smart enough to hire a 30 something old Head Band director a couple of years ago. LOL. I expect to see some innovation at SU with a young Haymer in charge. Now back to the original topic.

Bottom line is SC State like a lot of our schools have financial issues. Football can't pay for all of their athletic programs like most of our schools. So they are going to cut the non revenue making ones and they have to look at the Men's programs first due to Title IX. Not shocking. We are at a cross roads and money is tight. Even with a good football program at SC State, they do not make the same revenue some of the other HBCUs do from Football. Whether it is because their stadium is not large or due to travel expenses in the MEAC that takes you all the way up to Delaware and as far South to Daytona Beach. That eats up your money when you got to travel to play teams in your own conference that are that far away. Then you get even more with the basketball teams having to play teams that are not within a state or two. The MEAC gets bigger during basketball season. So I can see how that eats up some money.