dacontinent
Preacher
Yes, we do know why.
Death and when does man go to heaven or hell
- Thread starter Kendrick
- Start date
Yes, we do know why.
JayRob
TigaPaw
What about John the Baptist coming back in bodily form in the power and spirit of Elijah?
JayRob
TigaPaw
ROYAL BLUE; [QUOTE said:
Use that excuse about me not having a holy spirit if you need to, but until you can logically explain how a man can come back in the SAME power and (human) spirit of another man who previously existedhundreds of years earlier, then it's probably you whose not grasping.
T\What does Elijah coming back through John the Baptist have to do with Elisha? Nothing.
This has nothing to do with reincarnation because Elijah and Elisha were both still alive. It was merely a transferral of extra power and authority from one man to another. Nothing more, nothing less.
The situation in the New Testament involving Elijah's spirit and John the Baptist was completely different.
At some point and time, Elijah died, his spirit went back to where it came from. When John the Baptist was placed in the womb, Elijah's spirit was delegated for him and placed IN him. What's so difficult about that? What's so evil about that? Nothing and nothing.
You guys seem to be letting preconceived ideas prevent you from learning and growing.
Perhaps Matthew 17:9-13 can help you a bit more.
If you're claiming that Elijah went to heaven where the biblical god dwells, then you're mistaken. There are three heavens mentioned in the bible. 1. heaven - sky where birds fly (Genesis 1:20)
2. heaven - space where stars and moon are (Psalm 8:3).
3. Heaven - abode of the biblical god. (3rd heaven) (2 Corinthians 12:2).
The question is, which one of the three heavens did Elijah rise up to? Didn't Jesus make claim in John 3:13, that NO man has entered into heaven where the biblical god dwells, except the son of man? Was he lying or mistaken? If Elijah went there, then Jesus was a liar and didn't know what he was talking about.
Elijah was simply removed and placed elsewhere on the earth, that's not mentioned in the bible. As a matter of fact, 8 years later, Elijah's name comes back up on earth, not in heaven.
"And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet..." (2 Chronicles 21:12). So just as Elijah had predicted the death of King Ahaziah, he also predicted the death of King Jehoram. And King Jehoram also died as predicted by Elijah. (2 Chronicles 21:12-20).
So Elijah, after going away in a whirlwind, was not in the third heaven. Less than eight years later he was still on the earth, still making predictions.
Last edited:
ROYAL BLUE
New Member
...at some point in time!? I just posted when Elijah was taken by God to heaven. This is a classic example of how lost you are in the scriptures. You sayin a whole bunch of nothin! I'm praying for you.
dacontinent
Preacher
Back??!! John didn't come back from anywhere. He didn't even get released from prison. He was beheaded.
I conduct in the spirit of Eugene Ormandy because I studied him. I've watched him live and via video. I've read his writings. I am not him.
dacontinent
Preacher
I am just about out of words. First, it was the preposturous explanation you gave about John the Baptist being Elijah reincarnated. Now this. Please stop posting your interpretations of Scripture. This is embarrassing for you. The saddest part is that I believe you are serious.
I have to try to save this for the next time you rail on a preacher about the Scriptures or his walk of life.
JayRob
TigaPaw
What about the statement that Jesus said in John 3:13, that NO man has entered into heaven where the biblical god dwells, except the son of man? How do you explain that statement?
JayRob
TigaPaw
Correction: Elijah came back in the form of John the Baptist.
According to the bible, Elijah came back in the form of John the Baptist as stated by the Jesus figure in Matthew 17:11-13. He says, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.
The Jesus figure clearly stated that Elijah had come, but folks didn't recognize him. The disciples finally understood that he was talking about whom? John the Baptist. Why did Jesus state that Elijah had come if he didn't? Maybe he was just playing mind games with his disciples.
Last edited:
Blacknbengal
Well-Known Member
He meant the "spirit"/character of Elijah, not the actually man/body. :smh:
JayRob
TigaPaw
So other than Elijah, who sent the letters eight years later? I gave you the chapters and verses, yet you haven't shown that the letters were sent by anyone else but him.
RB says that I'm mistaking scripture eventhough I quoted Jesus clearly saying that "NO MAN has entered heaven except the son of man".
RB didn't offer an explanation as to why Jesus would make such a statement. He simply wrote it off without explanation and ignored it. You're doing the same thing.
As it says in Isaiah, "state your case". Who sent the letters other than Elijah eight years after he was supposedly taken to heaven and state why Jesus stated that "no man has entered heaven except the son of man".
Some Christians indirectly and unknowingly state that Jesus was lying when they claim that Elijah went to the heaven where the biblical god supposedly abides.
dacontinent
Preacher
Thanks. However, JayRob has been told that repeatedly. He finds that unacceptable.
JayRob
TigaPaw
That's what I'm saying. The spirit of Elijah was in a different body because his body had died and decomposed hundreds of years earlier. I agree with you. Elijah's spirit/mind was placed in the body of John the Baptist. That's what reincarnation means.
Last edited:
JayRob
TigaPaw
The human spirit records a person's intellect, knowledge and character, so you're mistaken as to my beliefs in this particular case.
The same "spirit" in a different body.
Here's another related verse:
From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear. Matthew 11:11-15, NIV
Do you not have ears to hear what the Jesus figure claimed?
Last edited:
JayRob
TigaPaw
Here's another example of reincarnation in the bible:
As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" John 9:1-2, NIV
The disciples wanted to know the reason for the man's blindness. They offered two possibilities to Jesus. Either the man was blind because of the sins of his parents or he was blind because he was reaping the fruit of his own sins (karma). If our souls do not exist prior to this birth and if the man was born blind, then when or where could he have committed the sins that caused his blindness? His soul would have existed prior to that birth and he would have been engaged in a corporeal setting with other people to commit sins against or with. In other words, the blind man had a previous life.
This indicates that the pre-existence of the soul was a prevalent idea among the disciples, otherwise how could they have asked such an unusual question? Neither does Jesus ask them where they got such a strange idea. He does not marvel that they have presented him with such a foolish concept. Where did they get this idea? As we have seen in the "blind man" scripture and other scriptures, the concept of reincarnation was understood by Jesus and the disciples. They employed the concept in these discussions in a matter-of-fact way.
As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" John 9:1-2, NIV
The disciples wanted to know the reason for the man's blindness. They offered two possibilities to Jesus. Either the man was blind because of the sins of his parents or he was blind because he was reaping the fruit of his own sins (karma). If our souls do not exist prior to this birth and if the man was born blind, then when or where could he have committed the sins that caused his blindness? His soul would have existed prior to that birth and he would have been engaged in a corporeal setting with other people to commit sins against or with. In other words, the blind man had a previous life.
This indicates that the pre-existence of the soul was a prevalent idea among the disciples, otherwise how could they have asked such an unusual question? Neither does Jesus ask them where they got such a strange idea. He does not marvel that they have presented him with such a foolish concept. Where did they get this idea? As we have seen in the "blind man" scripture and other scriptures, the concept of reincarnation was understood by Jesus and the disciples. They employed the concept in these discussions in a matter-of-fact way.
dacontinent
Preacher
No, sir. That is not what is meant. It means that he would come in the same manner and style:
JayRob
TigaPaw
I repeat....he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear. Matthew 11:14-15, NIV
If you won't hear what your own Jesus savior says, you have no chance of hearing me.
ROYAL BLUE
New Member
What about becoming a Christian and asking God for knowledge, wisdom and understanding instead of leaning on your own understanding? How do you explain that Proverbs 3:5?
ROYAL BLUE
New Member
You can't expect a non-Christian to understand what true Christians know. Let him make a fool of himself and pray for him.
JayRob
TigaPaw
Let's stick to the subject. I've shown you that there's no need to be a "believer" to be able to understand and explain simple language.
Explain Matthew 11:14-15. where your Jesus savior virtually called Elijah, John the Baptist in plain words. I could list a half dozen other verses to support those verses and it's all from the bible.
Last edited:
JayRob
TigaPaw
Uhhh RB, just in case you didn't read it, I actually AGREED with Blackbengal and I explained why. LOL!!
Now I challenge you to answer why your Jesus savior in plain language called John the Baptist, Elijah. The disciples didn't refute him at all and they understood.
It's mighty interesting that self-proclaimed followers of Jesus and the disciples refuse to believe and understand what the disciples came to understand in Matthew 11:14-15, when the Jesus savior stated in plain words that "he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear. Matthew 11:14-15, NIV.
There's a reason why the Jesus character had to implore folks to have ears to hear. He knew that some of his own followers wouldn't understand. I see what he meant by that.
Last edited:
ROYAL BLUE
New Member
Christ is always the subject, so what are you talking about? I explained the spirit of Elijah to you and that confused you, so why would I confuse you even more with knowledge you can't comprehend? It does you no good to list verses that you can't comprehend because it's a fairytale to you.
ROYAL BLUE
New Member
No, you misunderstood him. Christians don't believe in re-incarnation, nor does the bible teach re-incarnation. You are confusing the spirit and soul of a person. The spirit is not the soul/being of a person.
Yes, Jesus stated that you must have eyes to see and ears to hear, but you lacking in both departments, so call on the good Doctor which is Christ to heal your eyes and ears. We want to see JayRob in the eternity with the rest of the saints. Tell Satan to cut you loose...
JayRob
TigaPaw
dacontinent
Preacher
Your repeating it does not mean that you have interpreted it correctly. Straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
dacontinent
Preacher
What you have shown is that you need to be a believer to understand the Scriptures.