Death and when does man go to heaven or hell


ROYAL BLUE [QUOTE said:
No, you misunderstood him. Christians don't believe in re-incarnation, nor does the bible teach re-incarnation. You are confusing the spirit and soul of a person. The spirit is not the soul/being of a person.
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The human spirit does what? It imparts intellect and allows growth in intelligence and it doesn't die. At death, it goes back to the one who gave it as stated by Solomon in Ecclesiastes 12:7. Without it, humans would be just like animals, who only have instinct.
The human spirit of Elijah was preserved by the biblical god, then when the time came, it was placed in John the Baptist while he was still in Elizabeth's womb.
Elijah was perhaps the greatest prophet in the Old Testament. John the Baptist was said to be the greatest prophet in the New Testament. Matthew 11:11. There's a distinct correlation between the two.

The human spirit of Elijah allowed John the Baptist to be the person he was and the messenger he was. There's nothing evil about that.
Jesus clearly stated in Matthew 11 that John the Baptist was Elijah, BUT THE PEOPLE DIDN'T RECOGNIZE HIM AS SUCH. Seems like some today are doing the exact same thing Jesus accused others of doing.

Yes, Jesus stated that you must have eyes to see and ears to hear, but you lacking in both departments, so call on the good Doctor which is Christ to heal your eyes and ears. We want to see JayRob in the eternity with the rest of the saints. Tell Satan to cut you loose...
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If I don't have eyes to see and ears to hear, I sure have legs and feet to run circles around your biblical opinions on the cirrent subject.
I keep asking, but I still haven't heard from you a debunking of Matthew 11:14-15 where Jesus says, John the Baptist was the Elijah to come.
 



dacontinent said:
What you have shown is that you need to be a believer to understand the Scriptures.
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If the above comment helps you and RB cope, then by all means, keep saying it to yourselves. I prefer to support my beliefs and interpretations with logical points rather than mere opinion.
 
JayRob said:
ROYAL BLUE said:
How can Christ be the subject when you don't even believe what he said in Matthew 11? It's more like someone's ego is the subject. Jesus clearly stated that John the Baptist was Elijah, yet you reject that.
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Another example concerning your false interpretation of the scriptures. Yeah, you're far from the truth which is to say Christ. The spiritual ignorance of non-believers is a testament that God's word is true; they don't know jack $#!+
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JayRob said:
The human spirit does what? It imparts intellect and allows growth in intelligence and it doesn't die. At death, it goes back to the one who gave it as stated by Solomon in Ecclesiastes 12:7. Without it, humans would be just like animals, who only have instinct.
The human spirit of Elijah was preserved by the biblical god, then when the time came, it was placed in John the Baptist while he was still in Elizabeth's womb.
Elijah was perhaps the greatest prophet in the Old Testament. John the Baptist was said to be the greatest prophet in the New Testament. Matthew 11:11. There's a distinct correlation between the two.

The human spirit of Elijah allowed John the Baptist to be the person he was and the messenger he was. There's nothing evil about that.
Jesus clearly stated in Matthew 11 that John the Baptist was Elijah, BUT THE PEOPLE DIDN'T RECOGNIZE HIM AS SUCH. Seems like some today are doing the exact same thing Jesus accused others of doing.



If I don't have eyes to see and ears to hear, I sure have legs and feet to run circles around your biblical opinions on the cirrent subject.
I keep asking, but I still haven't heard from you a debunking of Matthew 11:14-15 where Jesus says, John the Baptist was the Elijah to come.
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...still sayin a whole bunch of nothin! It's a shame that you actually think you're smarter than Christ. Repent JayRob and ask God to forgive you through the blood of Jesus. I say again, tell Satan to turn you loose in the name of Jesus!
 
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JayRob said:
...The human spirit of Elijah allowed John the Baptist to be the person he was and the messenger he was. There's nothing evil about that.
...
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To the ignorant, this might seem valid; but to readers of the Word, it is simply hogwash. No human spirit made John the Baptist who he was nor the messenger he was. You read the words, but you miss their significance.

Luke 1:13-17

13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb . 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.​

It is the Holy Ghost who made John the Baptist the man and messenger he was ... just like He did Elijah, Elisha, Samuel, Joshua, Amos, Daniel and all of the other prophets of God. The Scriptures are clear. You don't get that and you won't UNTIL you set aside your penchant for intellect and logic to surrender yourself to Jesus Christ.

:topic:
God has a calling on your life and you are running from it. I don't know your past and I don't know why you are running. Don't allow the enemy of your soul to keep using your past to block your future. I don't care whether you believe my words or those of any other believer. What we have to say is really not all that significant; but what God says is. If you really want to know what the truth is, I challenge you do what Saul of Tarsus did: Ask Him directly and wait for His answer.
 
dacontinent said:
To the ignorant, this might seem valid; but to readers of the Word, it is simply hogwash. No human spirit made John the Baptist who he was nor the messenger he was. You read the words, but you miss their significance.

Luke 1:13-17

13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb . 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.​

It is the Holy Ghost who made John the Baptist the man and messenger he was ... just like He did Elijah, Elisha, Samuel, Joshua, Amos, Daniel and all of the other prophets of God. The Scriptures are clear. You don't get that and you won't UNTIL you set aside your penchant for intellect and logic to surrender yourself to Jesus Christ.

:topic:
God has a calling on your life and you are running from it. I don't know your past and I don't know why you are running. Don't allow the enemy of your soul to keep using your past to block your future. I don't care whether you believe my words or those of any other believer. What we have to say is really not all that significant; but what God says is. If you really want to know what the truth is, I challenge you do what Saul of Tarsus did: Ask Him directly and wait for His answer.
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Spoken like a true Christian. I second that challenge...
 
ROYAL BLUE said:
...still sayin a whole bunch of nothin! It's a shame that you actually think you're smarter than Christ. Repent JayRob and ask God to forgive you through the blood of Jesus. I say again, tell Satan to turn you loose in the name of Jesus!
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Why would I think I'm actually smarter than the Jesus figure of the bible, when I'm actually quoting him word for word? Look at all the verses I've used in defense of what I'm saying.
 
dacontinent; [QUOTE said:
To the ignorant, this might seem valid; but to readers of the Word, it is simply hogwash. No human spirit made John the Baptist who he was nor the messenger he was. You read the words, but you miss their significance.

Luke 1:13-17

13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb . 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.​

It is the Holy Ghost who made John the Baptist the man and messenger he was ... just like He did Elijah, Elisha, Samuel, Joshua, Amos, Daniel and all of the other prophets of God. The Scriptures are clear. You don't get that and you won't UNTIL you set aside your penchant for intellect and logic to surrender yourself to Jesus Christ.
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See, this is where you're only telling part of the story. According to the bible, it takes BOTH the human spirit and holy spirit to help a person becomes who he is, but the human spirit allows the person to take on a human personality and not that of the animal. It's as simple as that.
If the human spirit wasn't very important, the verses wouldn't have stated, "in the power and spirit OF Elijah". It didn't say in the power and spirit of the holy spirit, it says OF Elijah, meaning that it BELONGED TO ELIJAH. Of denotes ownership.
It's mighty interesting that you didn't highlight verse 17 of Luke 1. The holy spirit can only do so much and it's of little consequence without the human spirit working together.

God has a calling on your life and you are running from it. I don't know your past and I don't know why you are running. Don't allow the enemy of your soul to keep using your past to block your future. I don't care whether you believe my words or those of any other believer. What we have to say is really not all that significant; but what God says is. If you really want to know what the truth is, I challenge you do what Saul of Tarsus did: Ask Him directly and wait for His answer.
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If most religions weren't a carbon copy of each other and if there weren't so many errors, contradictions, unfulfilled prophecies, unscientific statements and inaccurate historical documentation found in the bible, then I might look into for credibility. Until then, I'll look at Christianity as simply being man-made. Why? Because NO all-knowing, omnipotent and omnipresent force would've made so many blunders within it's covers.
 
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ROYAL BLUE said:
Spoken like a true Christian. I second that challenge...
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Spoken like a true Christian amongst 33,000 differing denominations. Sounds like a real cohesive bunch there.
And I repeat my last statements in the previous post.
 
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JayRob said:
Why would I think I'm actually smarter than the Jesus figure of the bible, when I'm actually quoting him word for word? Look at all the verses I've used in defense of what I'm saying.
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...because you're not a follower of Christ and you think that Christ is not the only way to the Creator of this world. Yeah, you think you're smarter than Christ.
 
JayRob said:
See, this is where you're only telling part of the story. According to the bible, it takes BOTH the human spirit and holy spirit to help a person becomes who he is, but the human spirit allows the person to take on a human personality and not that of the animal. It's as simple as that.
If the human spirit wasn't very important, the verses wouldn't have stated, "in the power and spirit OF Elijah". It didn't say in the power and spirit of the holy spirit, it says OF Elijah, meaning that it BELONGED TO ELIJAH. Of denotes ownership.
It's mighty interesting that you didn't highlight verse 17 of Luke 1. The holy spirit can only do so much and it's of little consequence without the human spirit working together.
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OF denotes posession, not ownership. The two are slightly different, particularly in that possession is a frame of reference and ownership is absolute. The character and manner of Elijah were more certainly in Elijah's possession but never in his ownership.

JayRob said:
If most religions weren't a carbon copy of each other and if there weren't so many errors, contradictions, unfulfilled prophecies, unscientific statements and inaccurate historical documentation found in the bible, then I might look into for credibility. Until then, I'll look at Christianity as simply being man-made. Why? Because NO all-knowing, omnipotent and omnipresent force would've made so many blunders within it's covers.
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I did not challenge you to be a Christian. I know that you are resistant to that. I challenged you to ask God and wait for His answer.
 
JayRob said:
Spoken like a true Christian amongst 33,000 differing denominations. Sounds like a real cohesive bunch there.
And I repeat my last statements in the previous post.
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Is the arm the same as the hand, or the leg the same as the foot? No, but they're all part of "ONE" cohesive body in Christ. At the end of the day, it's what they all believe and that is Christ is the "ONLY" Savior of the world. Do you believe the same?
 
JayRob, here is a short 5 minute video of pastor Murray documenting that John the Baptist was not Elijah. I hope these 5 minutes of truth will not confuse you any more than you already are. Watch, listen and learn.

John 1:19-23 19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?

20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias(Elijah)? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.

22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?

23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5TNKma8B87I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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ROYAL BLUE said:
...because you're not a follower of Christ and you think that Christ is not the only way to the Creator of this world. Yeah, you think you're smarter than Christ.
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In that case, I must be smarter than Mohammed, Kristna and any other man-made god as well because I don't think they're the way to the Supreme Intelligence either.
As has often been said, the biblical Jesus is a prototype of Kristna, Dionysius, Horus and other ancient gods that folks tend to call pagan.
 



dacontinent [QUOTE said:
OF denotes posession, not ownership. The two are slightly different, particularly in that possession is a frame of reference and ownership is absolute. The character and manner of Elijah were more certainly in Elijah's possession but never in his ownership.
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If that's the case, I'll go along with that too. John the Baptist "possessed" Elijah's human spirit.

I did not challenge you to be a Christian. I know that you are resistant to that. I challenged you to ask God and wait for His answer.
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Which god are you referring to? If you're referring to the one in the bible whose said to be responsiblie for the numerous errors and bunglings, I'd rather not due to unreliability.
 
ROYAL BLUE said:
Is the arm the same as the hand, or the leg the same as the foot? No, but they're all part of "ONE" cohesive body in Christ. At the end of the day, it's what they all believe and that is Christ is the "ONLY" Savior of the world. Do you believe the same?
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Having 33,000 denominations is nowhere near being cohesive. As a matter of fact, Christianity is perhaps the most divided religion known to man. It's more like the body parts have separated from each other and all 33,000 parts are doing what they feel is right.
If just "believing" is all there is to it, there'd be no need for denominations in the first place.
I don't recall the disciples in the bible having separate denominations that were approved.
 
ROYAL BLUE said:
JayRob, here is a short 5 minute video of pastor Murray documenting that John the Baptist was not Elijah. I hope these 5 minutes of truth will not confuse you any more than you already are. Watch, listen and learn.
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This Murray man that you seem to laud and overhype, is contradicting what Jesus said and lends nothing but more error to the subject.

This is another biblical contradiction because John the Baptist says he WASN'T Elijah, but Jesus said that he was. Either John the Baptist didn't know who he was or he was intentionally lying.
The other position could be that Jesus was lying or mistaken. Which was it?
Murray doesn't seem to know and does nothing to explain away the claim Jesus made about John the Baptist being Elijah via the human spirit.

The doctrine of reincarnation is clearly alive and well in the bible.
 
JayRob said:
In that case, I must be smarter than Mohammed, Kristna and any other man-made god as well because I don't think they're the way to the Supreme Intelligence either.
As has often been said, the biblical Jesus is a prototype of Kristna, Dionysius, Horus and other ancient gods that folks tend to call pagan.
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Yeah, all humans "should" be smarter than false gods because they don't exist and they have nothing to do with Christ.
 
JayRob said:
Having 33,000 denominations is nowhere near being cohesive. As a matter of fact, Christianity is perhaps the most divided religion known to man. It's more like the body parts have separated from each other and all 33,000 parts are doing what they feel is right.
If just "believing" is all there is to it, there'd be no need for denominations in the first place.
I don't recall the disciples in the bible having separate denominations that were approved.
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What part of they are "Christians" don't you understand? They are believers and that's all that matters because denominations don't do the saving, it's who they believe in that gives them eternal life.
 
JayRob said:
This Murray man that you seem to laud and overhype, is contradicting what Jesus said and lends nothing but more error to the subject.

This is another biblical contradiction because John the Baptist says he WASN'T Elijah, but Jesus said that he was. Either John the Baptist didn't know who he was or he was intentionally lying.
The other position could be that Jesus was lying or mistaken. Which was it?
Murray doesn't seem to know and does nothing to explain away the claim Jesus made about John the Baptist being Elijah via the human spirit.

The doctrine of reincarnation is clearly alive and well in the bible.
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Yeah, it confused you once again...
 
ROYAL BLUE said:
What part of they are "Christians" don't you understand? They are believers and that's all that matters because denominations don't do the saving, it's who they believe in that gives them eternal life.
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So JUST believing will get one salvation? According to James, you're mistaken.

James 2:14, What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?
verses 18-19....But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

verse 20....You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]?
verse 22....You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

James says even the demons believe, but does that give them eternal life?
 
ROYAL BLUE said:
Yeah, it confused you once again...
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Every time you and dacontinent say that I don't understand something, it's really you who don't understand. Then you use the excuse of me not having some holy spirit to excuse you from having to explain something you have difficulty doing.
The easy and honest thing for you to do is to admit that you just don't know the answer.
 
dacontinent said:
JayRob is not confused. He cannot understand the Word because of the enmity that he relishes.
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At least you give me credit for not being confused.

On the other hand, if you translate my being honest about the many biblical errors, unfulfilled prophecies, inaccurate history, plagiarisms and false scientific statements as having enmity against the bible, then so be it. I'd rather hold on to something I know to be accurate and truthful than someone's inaccurate opinion of me.

:topic: If your religion helps you cope with the daily stressors in life and overcome yourself, then use it as that tool.
Just don't tell me that something's true just because it's in the bible, because it's not.
 
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