Death and when does man go to heaven or hell


K

Kendrick

Well-Known Member
As a kid I was taught that when you die a person either goes to heaven or hell immediately.

But later on in my life I came across teaching that said we don't go to heaven or hell immediately after they die. That when die we wait until Jesus comes back to be resurrected then our eternal destiny will be determined. Is that true?
 
kendrick said:
As a kid I was taught that when you die a person either goes to heaven or hell immediately.

But later on in my life I came across teaching that said we don't go to heaven or hell immediately after they die. That when die we wait until Jesus comes back to be resurrected then our eternal destiny will be determined. Is that true?
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I see how this could be confusing, but to answer your question you must understand there are 2 sides in heaven and there is a "gulf(line)" that divides both sides...if a person where to die today and they were a non-Christian, then they would instantly change into their spiritual body, and their soul would return to God in heaven on the bad side of the gulf, and they will have to go and remain on the bad side of the gulf in heaven until after the millenium. If a Christian were to die today, then they would instantly change into their spiritual body, and their soul would return to God in heaven on the right side of the gulf, and they will have to go and remain on the right side of the gulf in heaven until after the millenium; then comes judgement for reward/punishment. Christ returning to this earth has to do with those in the flesh on earth. In other words, you, me and the entire flesh world will be instantly changed from a flesh body to a spiritual body just as fast as you can blink your eye. Christ tried to show the disciples how fast this is done, but they went to sleep on Christ.
 



ROYAL BLUE said:
I see how this could be confusing, but to answer your question you must understand there are 2 sides in heaven and there is a "gulf(line)" that divides both sides...if a person where to die today and they were a non-Christian, then they would instantly change into their spiritual body, and their soul would return to God in heaven on the bad side of the gulf, and they will have to go and remain on the bad side of the gulf in heaven until after the millenium. If a Christian were to die today, then they would instantly change into their spiritual body, and their soul would return to God in heaven on the right side of the gulf, and they will have to go and remain on the right side of the gulf in heaven until after the millenium; then comes judgement for reward/punishment. Christ returning to this earth has to do with those in the flesh on earth. In other words, you, me and the entire flesh world will be instantly changed from a flesh body to a spiritual body just as fast as you can blink your eye. Christ tried to show the disciples how fast this is done, but they went to sleep on Christ.
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I understand about our bodies will be changed when Christ comes back. However, I'm hearing/reading that when you die (now or down the line) that your soul does not go to heaven or hell immediately.

You are in a sleep state until Christ returns, then are raised and judged. Then and only then will you know whether or not you will be going to heaven or hell. Right now no one is in heaven or hell. The dead remain dead until Christ returns to raise them from the grave and judged them.

That is what I want to know if that is true or not.
 
All of the above has to do with the bible, but how reliable is that when one hears first hand stories of something completely different than some gulf dividing a heaven and hell as described in the bible?

Most folks who died, but were resucitated back to life give a completely different story regarding their experiences.
Not many state that they've gone to any hell fire. In fact, most stated that they were reunited in their spirit body with previously deceased loved ones such as mother, father, grandparents, friends, etc. They mentioned going into the "light" to a place where there's unconditional love; here they're given a life review and are able to decide what the next step will be in their existence.
Most say that it has nothing to do with any heaven or hell or religion.

On the other hand, some at death don't go into the light (the other side) either by choice or due to ignorance. They roam the earth in the spirit as "ghosts". They are not able to make themselves known to loved ones because humans, for the most part, can't really see spirit except by special means. Some folks have the gift of mediumship where they can both see and speak to the spirits of those who are deceased. For some odd reason, the bible however forbids this.

Basically, the only difference between life and death is that one discards the jacket that he wears called the body. There's no more physical pain and physical suffering. Death is merely a shift in consciousness and energy level. At death, ONLY the physical body dies, but our consciousness remains.
There's no evidence of any sleep state. Folks are fully conscious at death, albeit in the spirit.

Here's a website that presents first hand accounts and the best proof of what happens after a person's physical body ceases working.

Scientific Evidence for Survival
Of consciousness after death

http://www.near-death.com/evidence.html

http://www.near-death.com/
 
kendrick said:
I understand about our bodies will be changed when Christ comes back. However, I'm hearing/reading that when you die (now or down the line) that your soul does not go to heaven or hell immediately.

You are in a sleep state until Christ returns, then are raised and judged. Then and only then will you know whether or not you will be going to heaven or hell. Right now no one is in heaven or hell. The dead remain dead until Christ returns to raise them from the grave and judged them.

That is what I want to know if that is true or not.
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Question: The bible states that the spirit is eternal. My question is, "what's the use of the resurrection if our human spirit doesn't die to begin with?"

It makes no sense to resurrect people when they're not dead in the first place. Folks who've died and were brought back to life confirm that eventhough their physical body was dead, they were still conscious, could tell what the doctors were doing just before they were brought back to life.
A lady who was blind from birth, but brought back to life after dying, described what she SAW while she was dead. How could she describe seeing something while dead and how could she have seen something if she was blind?

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence02.html
 
kendrick said:
I understand about our bodies will be changed when Christ comes back. However, I'm hearing/reading that when you die (now or down the line) that your soul does not go to heaven or hell immediately.

You are in a sleep state until Christ returns, then are raised and judged. Then and only then will you know whether or not you will be going to heaven or hell. Right now no one is in heaven or hell. The dead remain dead until Christ returns to raise them from the grave and judged them.

That is what I want to know if that is true or not.
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Souls do not sleep. Look at the verse below, in order for something to "return" then it must have previously been at that location in past time. In other words, we all were with God in spiritual bodies in heaven, and when we die on this earth in the flesh, then our soul "return" to God. There is no confusion in the verse. It's up to the reader to either believe God or the traditions that men have taught people on earth; the choice is left to the individual as to whom to believe.

Ecclesiastes 12:6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. In other words, you're dead in the flesh...

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

I see how this could be confusing, but to answer your question you must understand there are 2 sides in heaven and there is a "gulf(line)" that divides both sides...if a person where to die today and they were a non-Christian, then they would instantly change into their spiritual body, and their soul would return to God in heaven on the bad side of the gulf, and they will have to go and remain on the bad side of the gulf in heaven until after the millenium. If a Christian were to die today, then they would instantly change into their spiritual body, and their soul would return to God in heaven on the good side of the gulf, and they will have to go and remain on the good side of the gulf in heaven until after the millenium; then comes judgement for reward/punishment.
 
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ROYAL BLUE said:
Souls do not sleep. Look at the verse below, in order for something to "return" then it must have previously been at that location in past time. In other words, we all were with God in spiritual bodies in heaven, and when we die on this earth in the flesh, then our soul "return" to God. There is no confusion in the verse. It's up to the reader to either believe God or the traditions that men have taught people on earth; the choice is left to the individual as to whom to believe......
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You just knowingly or unknowingly described reincarnation without any question. Living before, then coming to dwell in human flesh, then going back to be reunited with the Supreme Intelligence is a simple definition of reincarnation.
 
JayRob said:
You just knowingly or unknowingly described reincarnation without any question. Living before, then coming to dwell in human flesh, then going back to be reunited with the Supreme Intelligence is a simple definition of reincarnation.
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Except for the incarnation part.
 
JayRob said:
What incarnation part? There's nothing that RB described above that strays away from the doctrine of reincarnation. He did an excellent job.
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RB did not describe RE-incarnation at all. He described incarnation. From the etymology of the word, reincarnation means there must be at least two incarnations of the same being.
 
JayRob said:
You just knowingly or unknowingly described reincarnation without any question. Living before, then coming to dwell in human flesh, then going back to be reunited with the Supreme Intelligence is a simple definition of reincarnation.
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No, I didn't.

Jeremiah 1:4-5

"The word of the Lord came to [Jeremiah], saying: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you."
 
dacontinent said:
RB did not describe RE-incarnation at all. He described incarnation. From the etymology of the word, reincarnation means there must be at least two incarnations of the same being.
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That's exactly what he said. Refer back to his post and you'll see.
 
ROYAL BLUE said:
No, I didn't.

Jeremiah 1:4-5

"The word of the Lord came to [Jeremiah], saying: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you."
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You posted the following:
Souls do not sleep. Look at the verse below, in order for something to "return" then it must have previously been at that location in past time. In other words, we all were with God in spiritual bodies in heaven, and when we die on this earth in the flesh, then our soul "return" to God. There is no confusion in the verse. It's up to the reader to either believe God or the traditions that men have taught people on earth; the choice is left to the individual as to whom to believe.
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Yes, you did and didn't even realize it. Jeremiah is talking about reincarnation. How could the biblical god know him if he had never existed before he formed him in the womb? He HAD to have been in existence before he was placed in a human body.

You said that in order for something to "return" then it must have previously been at that time and location in past time. You then went on to say that we ALL were with god in spiritual bodies in heaven before we came to earth.
My question is....how long were humans with this Supreme Intelligence before we came to earth? How many times have we been to earth? Some, like Elijah in the bible, have been here more than once.

What's the purpose of us being with god for all eternity before he decided to send us to earth in a physical body? Do you think this is your FIRST time being on earth? Where has your spirit been for the past thousand or two thousand or more years?
Unbeknownst to you, humans have been on earth for hundreds of thousands of years, dying and coming back again multiple times for specific purposes.

There are mounds and mounds of evidence that reincarnation is real. Here's an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0B4V_kowo
 
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Besides, what's wrong with a soul/spirit returning, especially if he/she didn't get "it" right the previous time. Folks are so caught up in what scripture has in it, but fail to remember that many books that were once in the bible were removed because the powers that be didn't want "reincarnation" to be taught. The current bible is limited and limits many from growing in this area.

What's wrong with a soul returning to try again to grow in character, character that he/she failed to gain the previous time? What's wrong with that since we have all of eternity to work with?
 
Who do people say the Son of Man is?" They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." - (Matt. 16:13-14)

I always wondered why this Jesus character didn't refute his disciples when they made claim that he was the embodiment of someone who previously lived. Reincarnation makes much more sense and these two verses add weight to that.
If reincarnation was blasphemy, the Jesus character would surely have rebuked the disciples for even hinting that it was true, but in this case, he didn't.
 



JayRob said:
You posted the following:


Yes, you did and didn't even realize it. Jeremiah is talking about reincarnation. How could the biblical god know him if he had never existed before he formed him in the womb? He HAD to have been in existence before he was placed in a human body.
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No I didn't. You can only be a human in the flesh one time, so it's impossible to "RE-incarnate" into flesh more than once. All souls were in spiritual bodies "BEFORE" God placed them into the flesh body. After people die in the flesh body, their soul immediately returns to the spiritual body; it's the same spiritual body people had BEFORE" they were placed into flesh bodies by God.

Jeremiah 1:4-5 "The word of the Lord came to [Jeremiah], saying: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you."
 
ROYAL BLUE; [QUOTE said:
No I didn't. You can only be a human in the flesh one time, so it's impossible to "RE-incarnate" into flesh more than once.
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Says who? The bible says it's appointed unto men once to die,then the judgement. The person dies in that physical body once, then can easily come back in another physical body. It doesn't make the bible wrong in this particular case. That's what happened to Elijah, when people were saying that he came back in the form of John the Baptist.

All souls were in spiritual bodies "BEFORE" God placed them into the flesh body.
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Where does it say this in the bible?

After people die in the flesh body, their soul immediately returns to the spiritual body; it's the same spiritual body people had BEFORE" they were placed into flesh bodies by God.
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A soul returns to a spiritual body? What spiritual body are you talking about? Please show the verses too.

Jeremiah 1:4-5 "The word of the Lord came to [Jeremiah], saying: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you."
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Clearly a form of reincarnation. How could the biblical god know Jeremiah before he was placed in the womb? It was because he had previously existed at some other time and the biblical god knew his character, therefore he could sanctify or set him apart for a specific purpose.
 
JayRob said:
ROYAL BLUE; Says who? The bible says it's appointed unto men once to die said:
once[/B], then can easily come back in another physical body. It doesn't make the bible wrong in this particular case. That's what happened to Elijah, when people were saying that he came back in the form of John the Baptist.



Where does it say this in the bible?



A soul returns to a spiritual body? What spiritual body are you talking about? Please show the verses too.



Clearly a form of reincarnation. How could the biblical god know Jeremiah before he was placed in the womb? It was because he had previously existed at some other time and the biblical god knew his character, therefore he could sanctify or set him apart for a specific purpose.
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It's clear that you can't comprehend my posts. I rebuke all evil spirits in the name of Jesus, go back to the abyss! I have done all that I can to help you...I advise that you pray for knowledge, wisdom and understanding in Jesus name.
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ROYAL BLUE said:
JayRob said:
It's clear that you can't comprehend my posts. I rebuke all evil spirits in the name of Jesus, go back to the abyss! I have done all that I can to help you...I advise that you pray for knowledge, wisdom and understanding in Jesus name.
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Oh, I can easily comprehend your posts with no problem.

RB, which is easier, to call me an evil spirit or answer my questions. Seems to me that it's easier for you to ease your way out of answering by labelling me as an evil spirit, eventhough I asked logical questions in a respectful manner? Heck, I even agreed with you, yet you're calling ME the evil spirit after I've agreed with you? Seems that if I have one, you do to. LOL!!
Nevermind though because I don't think either of us do. I just think that's your way of avoiding answering the question.

I merely stated that John the Baptist was Elijah in a different body. That's consistent with scripture and it's very difficult for anyone to refute that. That is a form of reincarnation in the bible.
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dacontinent said:
Bruh, we have covered this before in the thread about the eternity of the soul and spirit. There is no archive available or I would point you to it.

Ibid (or is it op. cit) Post #20.
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Yes, we have covered this before, so you should be familiar with the fact that John the Baptist was Elijah, except in a different body. Again, this is a form of reincarnation. Same spirit, different body.
How can you refute that and still be accurate with the bible and with the doctrine of reincarnation itself?
 
JayRob said:
Yes, we have covered this before, so you should be familiar with the fact that John the Baptist was Elijah, except in a different body. Again, this is a form of reincarnation. Same spirit, different body.
How can you refute that and still be accurate with the bible and with the doctrine of reincarnation itself?
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Easily. I believe and study the Scriptures. They are clear that reincarnation is not a Biblical doctrine. It's not hard. Believe, read, and understand.
 
dacontinent said:
Easily. I believe and study the Scriptures. They are clear that reincarnation is not a Biblical doctrine. It's not hard. Believe, read, and understand.
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It's sad that he can't grasp this, but we know why...

It's sad that he can't comprehend a simple verse such as John the baptist coming before Christ in the spirit of Elijah. I wonder if he can comprehend the following verses? JayRob might think that Elijah was not taken by God, but that he was re-incarnated "twice" into the body of Elisha! LOL

2 Kings 2 9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.

10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.

11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

12 And Elisha saw it,...
 
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