The only rule I would like to see the NFL take a look at is the illegal hands to the face/face mask penalty. Over the years, ball carriers have been allowed to grab on the face mask of defenders and no flags are thrown. But a defender can't touch the face mask. That has to change.
Official Super Bowl XLIII Gameday Thread
- Thread starter Kendrick
- Start date
Devil's Gun Trigger Man
onward and upward son!
bruh, that was a silly call, this is the Super Bowl, and looking at the play, it wasn't a malicious, "I'm gonna knock the hell out of the holder"-type thing. He couldn't stop his momentum. That's just like all the time you see folks run into the punter, but alot of the times that crap doesn't even get called.
Dr. Phreeze
It is I...Yes it is...
It's in the rule that you can't run over or better yet knock over the holder. No one thought it was malicious. The player's momentum might carry into him but the holder was in a defenseless position. Therefore, it was a personal foul.
Devil's Gun Trigger Man
onward and upward son!
so what about Harrison mugging ole boy, or Holmes celebrating, neither were properly officiated?????
JSU/99
Well-Known Member
That almost always gets called. And when you run thru the kicker like Wilson did, it's an automatic 15 yarder.
Dr. Phreeze
It is I...Yes it is...
Phrat,
I don't condone Harrison's actions on that play at all. That was uncalled for and should have been ejected from the game. The refs did call a personal foul on the play so Arizona was rewarded by placing the Steelers in poor field position. Now Santonio Holmes move in the end zone was classic...:lol: The refs probably didn't know what the hell he was doing anyway.
97JSULEGEND
Well-Known Member
Actually people run into the punters all the time. most of the time it's inadvertant and if the kicker doesn't fall they want call it.
Dr. Phreeze
It is I...Yes it is...
He bowled him over. It was clearly obvious
JSU/99
Well-Known Member
I doubt you'll ever see a celebration called on a SB TD in the last minute of the game. The player would have to really act a fool for the refs to call something.
JR
Well-Known Member
Holmes Celebration would not taken the points off the board. Just made a longer XP try or longer kick off.
The Harrison thing was bad but maybe not as bad of a missed call as we think. Who knows what was being said on the field, what dude might have done earlier to Harrison or what angle the ref had. The TV cameras catch the whole incident. The ref may have only seen the last push Harrison did. Maybe if he saw the whole thing he would have ejected him. The Cards aint even complaining about that one.
I have seen worse than that in the SB.......one of the reasons I wanted go hit John Madden arse for saying he needed to be kicked out. I was like dude you coached the Raiders........the Raiders of the 70s at that. You should be the last one to talk about kicking folks out of the game. Not like that was going to change the game for poor Gandy. Woodley was causing problems too. So was Farrior who actually was getting more pressure than Harrison since Harrison was being held on every play. No excuse but it was no game changing event. Remember this happened after Harrison had his big play in the first half.
O'Bladerunner
And Down!
Honestly, both sides got bad calls. Well...not "Bad calls" so much as "non-Super Bowl" calls.
The Harrison thing, from what they showed, I can see as being the call. But, then again...I wouldn't have called that in the first place, and we didn't get to see everything and/or the progression up to that call. The running-into-the-holder call...now, that was BS....lol. The four weeks of a young season...yes, I can see you call'n that. But, not in the Super Bowl. And, there were others.
PS- I'd like to know if the Cardinals changed kendrick's opinion on the Cards and/or the "lower tier" teams that he doesn't want to see make it to the SuperBowl.
The Harrison thing, from what they showed, I can see as being the call. But, then again...I wouldn't have called that in the first place, and we didn't get to see everything and/or the progression up to that call. The running-into-the-holder call...now, that was BS....lol. The four weeks of a young season...yes, I can see you call'n that. But, not in the Super Bowl. And, there were others.
PS- I'd like to know if the Cardinals changed kendrick's opinion on the Cards and/or the "lower tier" teams that he doesn't want to see make it to the SuperBowl.
O'Bladerunner
And Down!
Oh yea....that "fumble" at the end of the game. I would've like for them to take a lil more time on that call. I think he fumbled.
"So, why mention it?", you may ask.
With what I know about SWA..err...NFL refs, Im willing to bet a dime to a dog's arse that that call would've been reversed. Ive seen worse over-rulings.
"So, why mention it?", you may ask.
With what I know about SWA..err...NFL refs, Im willing to bet a dime to a dog's arse that that call would've been reversed. Ive seen worse over-rulings.
Man that was as obvious a call to make as any in the game. You can't run over the holder period. Heck that was a point of emphasis in Texas HS football prior to last season and the rule is the same in college and NFL.
O'Bladerunner
And Down!
In the SB, J4L? Come on, bruh.
No, sir. Not what I saw. That call shouldn't have been made. And, I haven't seen anything that would make me change that. I never disputed the fact that it was the right call to the letter of NFL law. But, much like some of the other questionable calls..."time and place", j4l...."time and place".
Had he dove into him, or visibly tried to take his head off, or drove him into the dirt...then, I'd agree with that call "at that point". It was the holder...and, the kick was already away. No foul.
Dr. Phreeze
It is I...Yes it is...
Blade,
Please stop. Why do we have to place a time to call roughing the holder? He ran him over. Personal Foul. 15 yards. He was just as defenseless as the kicker.
So if he had done the same thing to the kicker should THAT have been allowed without penalty also?
O'Bladerunner
And Down!
If he did that to the kicker...with what he actually did...yes, I would've throw it. The kicker is WAY more vulnerable in the position he was in, at the time of contact.
With the holder...the ball was gone, and there was no sign of deliberately trying to plant the holder in the ground.
Like I said...to the letter of the NFL law..sure, call it. But, call that in week 4...heck, week 10 and 11. If Im an official, Im not making that call in the SuperBowl. If I am...that game would've been full of holding penalties.
Last edited:
O'Bladerunner
And Down!
Do ref/ump's take intent into consideration on the field? Do ref/ump's take time and the magnitude of the game into consideration?
Yes or No?
Quick scenerio....
If you're a DE playing in week 2 of the season, and you get to the QB more-than a split second late, but you make decent, non-dirty contact (to let him know you're there), all while try'n to hold him up....do you think you should automatically be called for a personal foul? Now, take that same scenerio and place it in the SuperBowl..and, realize how silly it would be to get called for that at that juncture.
To me, a holder is no more vulnerable than a QB. I place that kind of call in the same relm.
I mean...are there not many, many cases of the ref taking "intent" into consideration? Esp, if the contact had no bearing on the play?
It depends on the type of call though. If it is a holding foul that occurred on the other side of the field from the ball I can see not calling that.
A blatant incident like this is not a judgment call. The holder is extremely defenseless in this instance because he is looking down and does not expect to get hit.
O'Bladerunner
And Down!
But, bottom line, it still holding, right? No different than a DB getting called for a minor holding infraction, opposite side of the play.
That's my point. Calling it doesn't make it wrong to call it. But, calling it and it having no bearing on the kick, bothers me a bit. Esp, if he showed no intent on trying to take out the "defenseless" holder.
We're going to have to agree to disagree. Cuz, I guess we don't use the same themometer of what "blatant" is. Much like my DE scenerio, I recognize when it's clear that something happened. But, I can't help but think that that kind of call, at that time, is assinine. Dude showed no signs in trying to put the holder out for good (
). At best, that's a no-callLet me stop with this subject, before someone doesn't read everything and thinks I think the game hinged on that call.
JR
Well-Known Member
But, bottom line, it still holding, right? No different than a DB getting called for a minor holding infraction, opposite side of the play.
That's my point. Calling it doesn't make it wrong to call it. But, calling it and it having no bearing on the kick, bothers me a bit. Esp, if he showed no intent on trying to take out the "defenseless" holder.
We're going to have to agree to disagree. Cuz, I guess we don't use the same themometer of what "blatant" is. Much like my DE scenerio, I recognize when it's clear that something happened. But, I can't help but think that that kind of call, at that time, is assinine. Dude showed no signs in trying to put the holder out for good (
Let me stop with this subject, before someone doesn't read everything and thinks I think the game hinged on that call.
Blade............you can't hit the holder period. Unless the ball gets bobbled or he gets up and tries to run with the ball.
I saw this happen in another NFL game last year with the Vikings. Same play......same call. The ref explained the call real well. Plus the holder and kicker are viewed like the Qb. Once the ball is gone......you can't run over them unless you blocked the kicked or get blocked into them. That is rule. Notice Adrian Wilson didn't complain he knew he was guilty just like Harrison knew he was guilty on his penalty.
The only player that had any gripe should Dansby who I thought hit Big Ben a second or so after Ben got rid of the ball and was no way for him to stop.
Besides that call didn't hurt the Cardinals or cost them the game. Thanks to my Steelers ineptness of getting TDs in the red zone they Cardinals actually survived that penalty with another FG try instead of a TD. LOL. Also if the ref didn't make that call......everybody would be beyotching about why he didn't. LOL.
Last edited:
