WMD found in Iraq?


Justification for the operation has been my beef all along. The Neo Cons made the decision on Iraq before 9/11 and used the so-called liberal media to sell it to the American people. I was not the only one having problems trying to figure out the imminent threat, so were a lot of foreign policy specialists and the majority in the rest of the world. I posted earlier on wanting to support the President on this operation. I also knew that after Afghanistan, al Qaida members escaped to Pakistan and Iran. And now our young men and women are sitting targets in an attempt of nation building that may take 10 to 15 years to accomplish.
 
Originally posted by Bartram


ok ad, no further takes on that, but just one question; do you feel strongly enough about that position that you would take up arms against or support the overthrow of the U.S. to even things out?
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You will never be able to win the hearts and minds of the people through force, which should be the ultimate goal of any group or country. When you do strike you better make sure that the move was defensive.

The sad thing about the masses of the people is that we have failed the public education system and it has failed us. We do not really learn history/government, therefore we don't ask the tough questions or take stands when we should.
 

well,,,

and as I said before the war,,, we would find out one way or the other during/after the war. right now the findings look to be in your favor I would have to admit, but we'll see if this is the case ultimately in the coming years.:read:
 
Coming years?

Are we supposed to be as patient while they look for the weapons as Bushy was?

I think anything found now would be looked upon suspiciously.

Did anyone else have a problem with Bushy sending Rice and Powell out to face the music over the weekend? Where were Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.?
 
Originally posted by PNeck019

I think anything found now would be looked upon suspiciously.
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Exactly!!!! Considering they claimed they knew EXACTLY where the WMD would be and they haven't found anything....who WOULD believe they werent planted?
 
Has anyone noticed how Bushy is now "singing a different tune?" He is now saying that he's confident (a joke within itself) that these WMD will be FOUND....FOUND? Weren't they suppose to be there already?

I heard Tavis Smiley say something this morning, that I've thought about myself. Colin and Condi have suddenly been placed out front to take the hits from questions about these weapons. They appeared on all the news programs this past weekend..Meet The Press, Face The Nation, etc. He also mentioned something else I thought was quite interesting. He said that soon, Bushy will put a different "spin" on these alleged WMD. His comment was that soon, he will begin to say that Saddam has THE POTENTIAL to create these WMD. That ain't what you told the nation, li'l Bushy! Sounds like someone has been lying, and has intiated an international conflict under false pretenses. As my frat Jafus would say.....hmmmm!

Can you imagine that....a lying conservative, selected president? And we all know that conservatives don't lie, don't we.

Here comes the RUUUUUUUUUDE AWAKENING!
 
Alum,
I heard Smiley this morning too. He did bring up some interesting points.

I got a simple question which may have already been answered but I'll ask anyway.

If sadam supposedly had WMD and chemical agents, why would he just sit on them while the US and Britain come in, kick his arse, and take over his country?

and the "spin" now about sadam having the "potential" to create WMD is a bunch of crock. Before the war, it was said that the threat was so "imminent" that we had to risk the lives of our soldiers. But now, it was just "potential"
:smh:
 
Originally posted by Attack Dog


You will never be able to win the hearts and minds of the people through force, which should be the ultimate goal of any group or country. When you do strike you better make sure that the move was defensive.

The sad thing about the masses of the people is that we have failed the public education system and it has failed us. We do not really learn history/government, therefore we don't ask the tough questions or take stands when we should.
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I agree 100%. As it has been stated, the Iraqi dissendents have been disorganized and in at least some cases discredited. One of the best columns on Iraq was my Al Neuhrath who is the founder of USAToday. He said in a short column that Iraq needed an Aung San Suu Kyi, who is leading the opposition to the government in Myammar. I am still wondering who is really the organized Iraqi opposition.

As for history/government classes, it is taught. But I should note that it has been a long time since I have been in school. :shh: So I can say how things are taught today. But it seems that we have forgotten the non-truths and half-truths that the public has been told about some important events for the last 40 years. And I am not talking about a person named Monica! But as long as the public and media forget, the government has little to worry about now.

As for Tavis' commentary today, his "predictions" on Colin an Condi just may come true.
 
Originally posted by mighty hornet
Alum,

I got a simple question which may have already been answered but I'll ask anyway.

If sadam supposedly had WMD and chemical agents, why would he just sit on them while the US and Britain come in, kick his arse, and take over his country?


:smh:
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That is the question that MILLIONS of Americans have no doubt asked since the conflict commenced.
 
Originally posted by mighty hornet

and the "spin" now about sadam having the "potential" to create WMD is a bunch of crock. Before the war, it was said that the threat was so "imminent" that we had to risk the lives of our soldiers. But now, it was just "potential"
:smh:
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Another good point! Let me add this:

I think that there is a faction of the American public, that has this "romantic" idea about warfare. When we see commercials about our armed forces, they always have images of silhouettes of soldiers, with a sunset in the background...particularly the images of Navy men and women. The show all of these "glamourous" scenes of aircraft, missle technology, etc.

What you will NEVER see, is the images of bloodied and shattered bodies of our soldiers, lying in dried deserts, and service men and women sweating and anguishing in the heat of battle in desolate and remote lands. As I've heard some folks say over the last several months, when war commences, it's not like the war created by Hollywood cameras, where gallant and brave soldiers, dressed immaculately in their uniforms go marching off to war, only to return victorious into the arms of their beauty queen wives, two children and a dog.

Many of them leave their families, never to return again, and if so, it is often in a bodybag. That is the REAL image of war! This fantasy of war that many folks hold to, does no good whatsoever when it is THEIR loved ones who are killed or dismembered. The real images are those of families at gravesites, crying and clutching the flags that have been draped over the coffins of their loved ones.

Johnny does NOT ALWAYS come marching home again!

These warmongers have failed to deal with the REAL, and it is the REAL that will come back to haunt them!


Mark my words!
 
Re: well,,,

Originally posted by Bartram
and as I said before the war,,, we would find out one way or the other during/after the war. right now the findings look to be in your favor I would have to admit, but we'll see if this is the case ultimately in the coming years.:read:
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Bart, I have to take issue with your post above.

This isn't an "us versus you" matter, and if you have been led to believe it is, I will offer an apology for that.

This issue of these WMD, or lack thereof, is an issue of INTEGRITY! That's a word that conservatives like to throw around alot. The issue is that of this nation's integrity, and how it has been damaged around the world. Our leaders...such as they are...SWORE to the world that Saddam was housing these weapons of mass destruction...so much to the point that we literally begged them to join us in this attack on a nation that was said to make up the "Axis of Evil."

However, these weapons have not yet been discovered, and that is where America's integrity has come into question throughout. Many people of other countries are asking the same questions as many Americans.."if these weapons exist, why have they not been removed from their arsenals, and secured by federal officials?" You can only lie about something for just so long. It's kinda like the relatives from up north who would come down south every summer, only to tell you what they have in their fine homes, BUT when you go there to see them for yourself, they don't exist, and in most cases....NEVER DID!

Once again, this isn't a conservative vs. liberal issue. The question of America's integrity from other nations is not directed toward one or the other, but ALL! The conservatives threw the word integrity around like a baseball in spring training during the Clinton administration, and the former president's "pecadillos." However, if you ask the other citizens of the world how they guage a lie about a "blow job" under a desk, compared to creating falsehoods about a nation having WMD to justify launching a war against it, I think one's sexual activities will fall to a level of "very unimportant" on the Richter scale.

Just my 0.25 worth!
 
Alum, those last two posts were some of the best relating to this subject that I have read on any message board. They are a must read.

Some may think that I am selling my birthright in quoting these two generals from the civil war. One was a pro-slavery Union general. The other was a confederate general. But it seems that these words have never been fully listened to or understood.

"War is h*ll"
- Union General William T. Sherman

"War is a terrible thing; we need not grow too fond of it."
-Confederate General Robert E. Lee after the Confederate victory at Chancelorsville
 
I'm with EB.

It seems that we cannot escape the lust for blood that was brought from the caves and hills of Europe. There is a reason for our national anthem.:(
 
Originally posted by EB

"War is a terrible thing; we need not grow too fond of it."
-Confederate General Robert E. Lee after the Confederate victory at Chancelorsville
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Even as a Confederate General, Lee obviously had common sense in regard to the anguish brought about by war. But then again, he had a close-up perspective of it, as have thousands who have fought, and lived to tell about it. Problem with war in the modern era, is that those who are LEAST LIKELY to go, have the greatest yearn for it!


If you're not going to fight, why should you be so "Hell bent" on sending someone else away from home to die?
 

Re: Re: well,,,

Originally posted by AAMU Alum


Bart, I have to take issue with your post above.

This isn't an "us versus you" matter, and if you have been led to believe it is, I will offer an apology for that.

This issue of these WMD, or lack thereof, is an issue of INTEGRITY! That's a word that conservatives like to throw around alot. The issue is that of this nation's integrity, and how it has been damaged around the world. Our leaders...such as they are...SWORE to the world that Saddam was housing these weapons of mass destruction...so much to the point that we literally begged them to join us in this attack on a nation that was said to make up the "Axis of Evil."

However, these weapons have not yet been discovered, and that is where America's integrity has come into question throughout. Many people of other countries are asking the same questions as many Americans.."if these weapons exist, why have they not been removed from their arsenals, and secured by federal officials?" You can only lie about something for just so long. It's kinda like the relatives from up north who would come down south every summer, only to tell you what they have in their fine homes, BUT when you go there to see them for yourself, they don't exist, and in most cases....NEVER DID!

Once again, this isn't a conservative vs. liberal issue. The question of America's integrity from other nations is not directed toward one or the other, but ALL! The conservatives threw the word integrity around like a baseball in spring training during the Clinton administration, and the former president's "pecadillos." However, if you ask the other citizens of the world how they guage a lie about a "blow job" under a desk, compared to creating falsehoods about a nation having WMD to justify launching a war against it, I think one's sexual activities will fall to a level of "very unimportant" on the Richter scale.

Just my 0.25 worth!
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Two points here. My comments were in the context of going a few rounds with unknown1 on this issue. I was acknowledging his call well before this all started and warning that you don't know what will be found in the coming months or year or two,, maybe not until there is an attack here and something is traced back.

To your comments about integrity, many would argue that not only was there an issue with Clinton morality/marital issues(which is obvious, well documented, provable with multiple witnesses over the decades), but also the questionable killing of christians in Bosina-Hercegovina and the launching of bombing attacks on Iraq which was, at that time, "justified" PRECISELY BECAUSE of suspected WMD and not meeting UN/inspector sanctions, so as I see it, ain't no difference in the two (if in fact there are no WMD weapons ever found,, but I would wonder why Iraq said "yes, we have them" all the time before the war.),,, except I know of no marital and general infidelity/moral issues with Bush and his marriage nor antics in the whitehouse yet. So if the WMD never existed,, then it looks like Clinton was harrassing Iraq for less than legit reasons too.

You right about one thing; dems don't be running the "moral high ground" card, so the onus is squarely on Bush/reps to now come up with WMDs,, but even if he/U.S. does,,, "the world" will not believe it; "the world" will only say it was a plant, it was a CIA plot,, Bush set Iraq up,,, it's a conspiracy/cover up,, on and on.
 
Re: Re: Re: well,,,

Originally posted by Bartram


You right about one thing; dems don't be running the "moral high ground" card, so the onus is squarely on Bush/reps to now come up with WMDs,, but even if he/U.S. does,,, "the world" will not believe it; "the world" will only say it was a plant, it was a CIA plot,, Bush set Iraq up,,, it's a conspiracy/cover up,, on and on.
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The world will have every reason to believe they have been planted, since they were NOT THERE when Bushy said they would be! If they suddenly materialize just in the knick of time to save Bushy's @ss, I'm gonna say the same thing!
 
Clinton, like his predecessor the senior George Bush, launched strikes against Iraq. In essence he continued the policy of that administration. But Bill Clinton did not launch a full scale invasion like this administration did.

True, the dems hands are not clean. Many of them voted last fall to give up Congress' constitutional authority to launch a war. Now the War Powers Act is not worth the paper it is written.

I have to say this. Lying about sex is one thing. Lying about WMDs and terrorism (Al Qaida link to Saddam) is something else. There is a difference. It looks like that this nation's integrity is on the line.
 
y'know,


the saddest thing about this whole iraq fiasco is that it's indicative of the type of "catch-22" situation that U.S. will find itself in as long as their in the "world policeman" role...

The fact that Dubyuh is politically inept doesn't really help matters any...

The whole Saddam/Iraq issue would be difficult for any country to deal with because of what's gone down with his regime in the past... To be quite honest, both the U.S. administration and the U.N. as a whole failed miserably in removing this guy from power while it had the chance (circa 1991, immediately at the end of gulf War 1).

The fact that **** dude does have the potential to pose a real, asymmetrical threat (i.e. production of unconventional weapons, funding of terrorist groups, etc.) is the very reason that the coalition took the action that they did in the first Gulf War...

the difference between then and now is at least two fold:

1). Iraq has no tangible organized military force that projects power in the region. (the republican guard and para-military units that comprised the iraqi military machine were still recovering from GF 1)

2). Public sentiment in both the middle east and in america has changed somewhat as it pertains to him. Many folks in america percieved this cat as somewhat of a funny afterthought prior to 9/11. The majority of his Arab neighbors still viewed him as a threat to the stability of the region (The Saudi's, Kuwaitis, Iranians, and Jordanians in particular, primarily because all of those countries have been the object of Saddam's taste for conquest in one way or another over the last 25 years.)

public sentiment among the arab states changed as soon as Dubyuh took the hardline "we'll invade your arse" stance...

The fact that Saddam has been so effective in making his WMD weapons program "dissapear" over the past decade or so just magnifies the ineptittude in the world approach to solving this problem...

would this conflict have come about further on down the road if Saddam would've stayed in power??? More than likely...Saddam's ego and his quest to unite all of the middle east under his vision of islamic rule would've prevented him from actually playing it safe.

This dude has made a living out of hoodwinking the U.N. to get the results he wants...What makes anybody think that we're going to walk into his country and "find" components of a biological or a chemical weapons program intact and ready to be accounted for.... :shame:

Hell, you could walk into the milk plant down the street or the beer brewery around the corner and turn it into a biological weapons factory that produces anthrax or botulin toxin in 24 hours... What makes folks think that Saddam didn't have a way to dismantle and disperse his program in the same fashion??? :smh:

That's the whole nature of running a program like that; It's going to be covert because it's already outlawed...


right now, the U.S. needs to re-think how they approach things politically and militarily... The world policeman thing is creating conflicts that aren't easily eplained away or forgotten by the civillians on the recieving end of those policies.

Simply put, the type of military action that we've seen in Afghanistan and Iraq isn't the way to get at an unconventional enemy.
 
Yeah, Bushy says OBL is Saddam's best friend.....that's why we bombed them remember?

"But Mr. President, what about your claims of WMD?"

We just said there might be WMDs, the real reason for the war was liberating the Iraqi people.
 
I'm just waiting on all of that Iraqi oil that's going to pay for this war and drive gas prices way down to start flooding the markets.

Regards.
 
"It is sort of fascinating that you can have 100 percent certainty about weapons of mass destruction and zero certainty of about where they are," Blix said at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York.
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To HE!! with WMD, these gorilla activities must be PUT DOWN!

MMMMMAAAAAAN,,, FUUUG WMDs. It's bought to be more U.S. soldiers killed "peace keeping" and rebuilding den killed eliminating the Iraqi army! :eek2: It could get tight. The U.S. better lay the wood to these Iraqi gorillas and get dis mess in check.

U.S. soldiers getting blasted at point-blank range in the back of the dome while off duty simply shopping for a dvd??? Kidnappings and executions??! This plays to the strength of Iraq and the weakness of U.S. policy and political correctness! If U.S. soldiers were to bust a cap in some Iraqi ingrate out of vengence, everybody would be up in arms, but with U.S. soldiers being methodically knocked off, it's just another stat. This is BS!!! :redhot:
 
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