Why do we need a SWAC Championship game .....part.II
- Thread starter MACHIAVELLI
- Start date
bluedog
"Leader of Kings"
Originally posted by jstate83
Here we go with the famous BLUDOG ..................... post anything just to post. You are the one acting like the INFO Minister. I'm just going along with the stuff you post that everybody already know. Anything but the subject at hand ..... SU.
It's a shame that GRAM has more gut's to speak for you than you do.
DANCE-- DANCE -- DANCE.
Are you from ala.?
JROCK
Preeminent
Does the loss to Alcorn this year make you wonder too? Was this the game we loss after playing Air McNair the prior weak and Jackson State the weak before that? Do you wonder about the 5-6 team that entered in the SUperdome and beat you in 2002 the year you were declared BCFNC? (just asking)
MikeBigg
Well-Known Member
I honestly don't know which games were sandwiched around the Nichols loss. Just like you jaguars, I can't explain what happened...I thought you guys would have won. I've heard a lot of excuses about why you guys lost with regularity to Nichols. I'm not buying any of them. I just think they had your number regardless of their talent level.
I wasn't trying to smack on your team. I think they would have performed well (depending on who they played). But the fact remains that Nichols has habitually beaten SU regardless of your record. Yes, the same can be said in the other regard concerning SU vs GSU. The facts are there to see...the same as with yall.
My only point was that the years that SU could have gone, we can't say if the Nichols loss was a fluke or fact. Can't even say if it's an indicator of how well SU would have done in the playoffs. I was merely posting an opinion based upon my observation that SU has struggled with Nichols in the past and had started to struggle against Northwestern. The only other playoff participant that you competed against during this time was FAMU. I believe your record was .500 or maybe better during your previous championship run of the 90's. However, there were some years that they absolutely destroyed SU in their head to head matchups.
I can't say how well you would or wouldn't have done...but the results of games against other out of conference teams that participate in the playoffs is not that good.
I wasn't trying to smack on your team. I think they would have performed well (depending on who they played). But the fact remains that Nichols has habitually beaten SU regardless of your record. Yes, the same can be said in the other regard concerning SU vs GSU. The facts are there to see...the same as with yall.
My only point was that the years that SU could have gone, we can't say if the Nichols loss was a fluke or fact. Can't even say if it's an indicator of how well SU would have done in the playoffs. I was merely posting an opinion based upon my observation that SU has struggled with Nichols in the past and had started to struggle against Northwestern. The only other playoff participant that you competed against during this time was FAMU. I believe your record was .500 or maybe better during your previous championship run of the 90's. However, there were some years that they absolutely destroyed SU in their head to head matchups.
I can't say how well you would or wouldn't have done...but the results of games against other out of conference teams that participate in the playoffs is not that good.
Why is everyone talking about everything else besides what the original topic is about. Who cares about the SU-GSU game and NBC and JSU coming close to beating some teams in the playoffs. The question in both threads was Why do we need a SWAC Championship game?, 80% of the replys has nothing to do with the topic. This thread needs to be closed and ya'll can start another about SU-GSU and JSU not beating an yone in the playoffs.
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Warndalyn
Postmaster General!!!
Y'all dun made ole Fiyah mad
:emlaugh:
Originally posted by Fiyah
Why is everyone talking about everything else besides what the original topic is about. Who cares about the SU-GSU game and NBC and JSU coming close to beating some teams in the playoffs. The question in both threads was Why do we need a SWAC Championship game?, 80% of the replys has nothing to do with the topic. This thread needs to be closed and ya'll can start another about SU-GSU and JSU not beating an yone in the playoffs.
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:emlaugh:
Lewis
Peabody Warhorses
In my opinion, the topics are related. The SWAC cannot go to the playoffs, partially because of the Bayou Classic, so to give SWAC teams something to play for (although it ain't much) they made the SCG. <br><br>
Mike Bigg is correct on most of what he said, but a big reason not to mess with moving the game now is NBC, no reason to test them out by moving it. BUT Mike is also correct, if there was no NBC, we still would not move it. It's a thanksgiving tradion, I went during some of the years it was not on thanksgiving. My head was in the headcount, but my heart was like , "Move it back to thanksgiving, please"<br><Br>Mike implied the question of why we loss to Nichols so many times and a few losses to Northwestern. A real good question. Here is my opinion on that. For one, in my opinon, the talent level on swac teams is real varied. For example, 1 corner is NFL caliber and gets drafted, the other corner is sorry as hell. Them PWC really know how to pick on that, Which brings me to the second reason, Coaching. I am just being honest, and I feel that the PWC we played had real good game plans and were quicker to figure out how to stop what we did. I am not saying our coaches are bad, but you can run the same thing for a long time in the SWAC before someone figures out how to beat it, not so with them. Finally, Nicholls runs a non conventional offense, all that option junk, Southern has always had a hard time with the option.
Mike Bigg is correct on most of what he said, but a big reason not to mess with moving the game now is NBC, no reason to test them out by moving it. BUT Mike is also correct, if there was no NBC, we still would not move it. It's a thanksgiving tradion, I went during some of the years it was not on thanksgiving. My head was in the headcount, but my heart was like , "Move it back to thanksgiving, please"<br><Br>Mike implied the question of why we loss to Nichols so many times and a few losses to Northwestern. A real good question. Here is my opinion on that. For one, in my opinon, the talent level on swac teams is real varied. For example, 1 corner is NFL caliber and gets drafted, the other corner is sorry as hell. Them PWC really know how to pick on that, Which brings me to the second reason, Coaching. I am just being honest, and I feel that the PWC we played had real good game plans and were quicker to figure out how to stop what we did. I am not saying our coaches are bad, but you can run the same thing for a long time in the SWAC before someone figures out how to beat it, not so with them. Finally, Nicholls runs a non conventional offense, all that option junk, Southern has always had a hard time with the option.
Robber
Consigliere
Lewis,
Don't sugarcoat on the coaching. Those PWC coaches were simply better than our coaches. That's why we'd have 5 NFL caliber players on our teams, they'd have none, and beat us by 20 points. That's why we could play close for a half and get blasted in the 2nd half because they adjusted to what we were doing and we kept doing the same things.
Don't sugarcoat on the coaching. Those PWC coaches were simply better than our coaches. That's why we'd have 5 NFL caliber players on our teams, they'd have none, and beat us by 20 points. That's why we could play close for a half and get blasted in the 2nd half because they adjusted to what we were doing and we kept doing the same things.
Texas Southern Fan
Well-Known Member
The reason why we're playing all teams are because teams kept playing each other when it wasn't mandated by the SWAC. I didn't agree with it, but people kept crying about their money games. To solve the problem the SWAC commissioner changed the rules to please everybody. Now we must live with the decision.
Jafus (Thinker)
Well-Known Member
Texas Southern Fan,
I agreed with you that playing teams as non-conference games was a bad decision to start and agree that is was based on the fact that many SWAC schools choose to play SWAC schools as non-conference games.
This decision was not the idea of SWAC Commissioner nor was the rule changed by the SWAC Commissioner. This idea came from the SWAC Head Coaches and later was supported by the SWAC Presidents. The SWAC Presidents voted to implement this policy and bylaw. Even many of the SWAC Athletic Directors were and are not very happy about this move and arrangement or that is at least what they tell many of their alumni & booster supporters.
I agreed with you that playing teams as non-conference games was a bad decision to start and agree that is was based on the fact that many SWAC schools choose to play SWAC schools as non-conference games.
This decision was not the idea of SWAC Commissioner nor was the rule changed by the SWAC Commissioner. This idea came from the SWAC Head Coaches and later was supported by the SWAC Presidents. The SWAC Presidents voted to implement this policy and bylaw. Even many of the SWAC Athletic Directors were and are not very happy about this move and arrangement or that is at least what they tell many of their alumni & booster supporters.
Jafus (Thinker)
Well-Known Member
Robber,
Very good and fair question, I must say. Neither Texas Southern Fan nor I agreed with playing schools in the opposite division if it was not a designate conference game. In my opinion, the simply way to address this issue as reasonable possible would be to create a format similar to what is done in the SEC.
Each team would have at least one maybe two depending on how everything calculated out that was designated as intra-divisional rivalry game(s) that would not rotate off a SWAC teams schedule.
Couple of examples: In the SEC, as I am sure you are very familiar with, the Alabama vs. Tennessee is a intra-divisional designated rivalry game that is fixed on each of their schedules that rotates between each home stadium just like the five divisional opponents.
Then the other two games between intra-divisional opponents is rotating every two years. Original the SEC had two designated rivalries that fit this format and then after a couple of years they have since change and only go with the one intra-divisional rivalry game format. Because they wanted more round robbin play between the two divisions.
So, in the SWAC for the one intra-divisional rivalry game. The SWAC would have something like the following:.
Western Division vs. Eastern Division 1 game rivalry team format
SU vs. JSU
GSU vs. AlSU
TxSU vs. AbSU
PVA&MU vs. MVSU
UAPB vs. AA&MU
This would keep at least one of the paydays that many of the SWAC schools were concerned about.
or
For two intra-divisional rivalry format games. The SWAC would have something like the following:
Western Division vs. Eastern Division 2 games rivalry team format
SU vs. JSU, AlSU
GSU vs. AlSU, JSU
TxSU vs. AbSU, AA&MU
PVA&MU vs. MVSU, AbSU
UAPB vs. AA&MU, MVSU
As designated intra-divisional rivalry games that would be played each year and the other two games would rotate between intra-divisional programs every two years.
This would keep at least two (for the most part all) of the paydays that many of the SWAC schools were concerned about.
But, I think it would be important for the SWAC office to either provide some travel expenditures for the two most eastern and western programs or help facilatate Classics that may help i.e. AA&MU vs. UAPB in St. Louis Gateway Classic or help facilate non-conference Classics, AbSU vs. BCC in Gulf Coast Classic improve revenue issues for games that are not natural rivalry games for current SWAC institutions.
In my opinion, most of this is not that very difficult to create or solve. Mainly because there are so many different examples with conference out there where you could use their format or a very similar format. Think about it.
Again, I like the idea of the SWAC Championship Game. But, I think the SWAC has stopped half-way and needs to push for a couple of agenda and bylaw items that would further cement the meaning, experience and importance of the game. In my opinion, this would further drive the bottom line which you believe most improve for the relevance of this game (i.e. conference expansion, designated rivalry game, bowl game tie-in & etc. to name a few). Which, I would have to agree with you on.
Very good and fair question, I must say. Neither Texas Southern Fan nor I agreed with playing schools in the opposite division if it was not a designate conference game. In my opinion, the simply way to address this issue as reasonable possible would be to create a format similar to what is done in the SEC.
Each team would have at least one maybe two depending on how everything calculated out that was designated as intra-divisional rivalry game(s) that would not rotate off a SWAC teams schedule.
Couple of examples: In the SEC, as I am sure you are very familiar with, the Alabama vs. Tennessee is a intra-divisional designated rivalry game that is fixed on each of their schedules that rotates between each home stadium just like the five divisional opponents.
Then the other two games between intra-divisional opponents is rotating every two years. Original the SEC had two designated rivalries that fit this format and then after a couple of years they have since change and only go with the one intra-divisional rivalry game format. Because they wanted more round robbin play between the two divisions.
So, in the SWAC for the one intra-divisional rivalry game. The SWAC would have something like the following:.
Western Division vs. Eastern Division 1 game rivalry team format
SU vs. JSU
GSU vs. AlSU
TxSU vs. AbSU
PVA&MU vs. MVSU
UAPB vs. AA&MU
This would keep at least one of the paydays that many of the SWAC schools were concerned about.
or
For two intra-divisional rivalry format games. The SWAC would have something like the following:
Western Division vs. Eastern Division 2 games rivalry team format
SU vs. JSU, AlSU
GSU vs. AlSU, JSU
TxSU vs. AbSU, AA&MU
PVA&MU vs. MVSU, AbSU
UAPB vs. AA&MU, MVSU
As designated intra-divisional rivalry games that would be played each year and the other two games would rotate between intra-divisional programs every two years.
This would keep at least two (for the most part all) of the paydays that many of the SWAC schools were concerned about.
But, I think it would be important for the SWAC office to either provide some travel expenditures for the two most eastern and western programs or help facilatate Classics that may help i.e. AA&MU vs. UAPB in St. Louis Gateway Classic or help facilate non-conference Classics, AbSU vs. BCC in Gulf Coast Classic improve revenue issues for games that are not natural rivalry games for current SWAC institutions.
In my opinion, most of this is not that very difficult to create or solve. Mainly because there are so many different examples with conference out there where you could use their format or a very similar format. Think about it.
Again, I like the idea of the SWAC Championship Game. But, I think the SWAC has stopped half-way and needs to push for a couple of agenda and bylaw items that would further cement the meaning, experience and importance of the game. In my opinion, this would further drive the bottom line which you believe most improve for the relevance of this game (i.e. conference expansion, designated rivalry game, bowl game tie-in & etc. to name a few). Which, I would have to agree with you on.
JROCK
Preeminent
Jafus,
I think this model is very good and would be good for the SWAC. The only portion that I would have questions about is:
"But, I think it would be important for the SWAC office to either provide some travel expenditures for the two most eastern and western programs or help facilatate Classics that may help i.e. AA&MU vs. UAPB in St. Louis Gateway Classic or help facilate non-conference Classics, AbSU vs. BCC in Gulf Coast Classic improve revenue issues for games that are not natural rivalry games for current SWAC institutions."
How would the SWAC office subsidize travel expenditures in option 1? In option 2 wouldn't the SWAC have limited ability to broker deals with classics?
I think this model is very good and would be good for the SWAC. The only portion that I would have questions about is:
"But, I think it would be important for the SWAC office to either provide some travel expenditures for the two most eastern and western programs or help facilatate Classics that may help i.e. AA&MU vs. UAPB in St. Louis Gateway Classic or help facilate non-conference Classics, AbSU vs. BCC in Gulf Coast Classic improve revenue issues for games that are not natural rivalry games for current SWAC institutions."
How would the SWAC office subsidize travel expenditures in option 1? In option 2 wouldn't the SWAC have limited ability to broker deals with classics?
Tigerpride
THE Logical ONE
I think that if we are going to do a 4+3, then we need to do a 4-3 and leave it alone. All of this intradivisional rival stuff is a bunch of crap. That would only play a role in the JSU-SU-Alcorn-Grambling rivalries anyway. There are no other major intradivisional rivalries. I can personally go without playing SU or GSU for two years if we don't make it to Bham. The only provision I think that should be made is if intradivisional schools (off of rotation) were invited to a classic. Other than that, go 4-3 all the way...add 4 non-conference games and have the SCG. Otherwise, go with the 9 game format (which I highly oppose) if these "money games" are so important and scrap the SCG. I don't think this is rocket science.
Jafus,
Was there anymore discussion on the 9-game format at the SWAC meetings??
Jafus,
Was there anymore discussion on the 9-game format at the SWAC meetings??
Jafus (Thinker)
Well-Known Member
Tigerpride,
No, they are wanting it die a slow death. They are thinking that if it is done for some time the SWAC fans will leave the issue alone. In my opinion, this is one of the real agenda items. I would like some quorom of posters from the SWACPAGE site in some organize manner to fight and president our concerns and issues to the SWAC Commissioner and SWAC Presidents. Maybe this an issue that will allow us to organize ourselves into a political force in terms of the SWAC athletics.
Again, we need to organize ourselves in manner that our opinions can be more readily heard. This is one of the things that Mighty Dog has champion and that you can easily see that I agree with. I honestly believe if we organized ourselves we could make some small, but effective change for this best in our conference. I would be the first to submit my monthly dues to be apart of this organization along with part of the money from dues going to maintain this site. Well, enough of my soap box.
No, they are wanting it die a slow death. They are thinking that if it is done for some time the SWAC fans will leave the issue alone. In my opinion, this is one of the real agenda items. I would like some quorom of posters from the SWACPAGE site in some organize manner to fight and president our concerns and issues to the SWAC Commissioner and SWAC Presidents. Maybe this an issue that will allow us to organize ourselves into a political force in terms of the SWAC athletics.
Again, we need to organize ourselves in manner that our opinions can be more readily heard. This is one of the things that Mighty Dog has champion and that you can easily see that I agree with. I honestly believe if we organized ourselves we could make some small, but effective change for this best in our conference. I would be the first to submit my monthly dues to be apart of this organization along with part of the money from dues going to maintain this site. Well, enough of my soap box.
Jafus (Thinker)
Well-Known Member
JROCK,
Thanks!! You have valid concern and fair question, as well.
Honestly, I could not say off the top of my head. I need to do more homework on the particulars. So, I would first have to understand what type of significant revenue would be generated by the natural and historic intra-divisional rivalries between programs like JSU vs. SU, JSU vs. GSU, SU vs. AlSU, and GSU vs. AlSU.
I would only want the additional expenditures to some what equal what is the general expected revenue generated by this games as well as to help foster new rivalries from new expansion programs (UAPB vs. MVSU) or programs that have an inherent disavdance in creating rivalries because of distance between several members institution i.e. TxSU vs. AbSU).
In my opinion, this would only be true revenue sharing princiables. As a conference we do want what is best for the entire conference as a whole. But we also do not want to destroy or take away from the natural work of programs that have been successful in working their business savvy to enhance their programs.
So, I am only proposing what I believe would be a happy medium.
Yes, I would suggest that the SWAC would have some limited ability to brokers deals for such classics. If not they would at the very least actively help facilate relationships between other conference officials to help cement deals for such conference members in Classic type match-ups.
Thanks!! You have valid concern and fair question, as well.
Honestly, I could not say off the top of my head. I need to do more homework on the particulars. So, I would first have to understand what type of significant revenue would be generated by the natural and historic intra-divisional rivalries between programs like JSU vs. SU, JSU vs. GSU, SU vs. AlSU, and GSU vs. AlSU.
I would only want the additional expenditures to some what equal what is the general expected revenue generated by this games as well as to help foster new rivalries from new expansion programs (UAPB vs. MVSU) or programs that have an inherent disavdance in creating rivalries because of distance between several members institution i.e. TxSU vs. AbSU).
In my opinion, this would only be true revenue sharing princiables. As a conference we do want what is best for the entire conference as a whole. But we also do not want to destroy or take away from the natural work of programs that have been successful in working their business savvy to enhance their programs.
So, I am only proposing what I believe would be a happy medium.
Yes, I would suggest that the SWAC would have some limited ability to brokers deals for such classics. If not they would at the very least actively help facilate relationships between other conference officials to help cement deals for such conference members in Classic type match-ups.
Tigerpride
THE Logical ONE
What's the hold up??? I'm down.
Jafus (Thinker)
Well-Known Member
I suppose first 1)we need to get a list of names of those interested and 2)then determine 3)what is the best time to meet 4)to start organizing the structure/leadership of our group and 5) what type of working format will the organization consist of and 6)finally what type of SWAC agenda items to we wish to work on.
I believe we must also have 1A) Ken Rashad's support (no neccessarily financial in nature) or atleast buy in on this organization, as well.
Interested
Jafus (Thinker)
Tigerpride
I believe we must also have 1A) Ken Rashad's support (no neccessarily financial in nature) or atleast buy in on this organization, as well.
Interested
Jafus (Thinker)
Tigerpride
