Who is the Antichrist?


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RB

We have had this same discussion several months ago concerning the antichrist and Antichrist. And you are deceived by Murray, thinking “Satan playing a fake role of Jesus/God.” That’s not in the bible in any shape or form.

Please explain how Satan being Satan “Antichrist” play the role of Jesus / God, when the very definition of Antichrist or antichrist, define one as being “against” Christ. It’s impossible for something or someone being for and against something at the same time.

Yes, Satan will play Jesus/God in the "very" near future, and it's stated throughout several chapters in the bible. You just don't have eyes to see it. You would have no problem comprehending this if you would allow God's word to do the talking. Now, let's take a look at some verses "PROVING" Satan has a twisted desire to play God.

The Fall of Lucifer

Isaiah 14:12 “ How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

Isaiah 14:13 For you have said in your heart: ‘ I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’

Isaiah 14:15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.

Isaiah 14:16 “ Those who see you will gaze at you, And consider you, saying: ‘ Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,

Isaiah 14:17 Who made the world as a wilderness And destroyed its cities,

Revelation 12:9 And the huge dragon was cast down and out--that age-old serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, he who is the seducer (deceiver) of all humanity the world over; he was forced out and down to the earth, and his angels were flung out along with him.

Revelation 13:11 Then I saw another beast(Satan's church) rising up out of the land [itself]; he had two horns like a lamb(fake Jesus), and he spoke (roared) like a dragon.

Revelation 13:12 He exerts all the power and right of control of the former beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell upon it to exalt and deify the first beast(New World Order/United Nations), whose deadly wound was healed, and to worship him.

Revelation 13:13 He(Satan/fake Jesus) performs great signs (startling miracles), even making fire fall from the sky to the earth in men's sight.

Revelation 13:14 And because of the signs (miracles) which he(fake Jesus/Antichrist) is allowed to perform in the presence of the [first] beast, he(fake Jesus/Antichrist) deceives those who inhabit the earth, commanding them to erect a statue (an image) in the likeness of the beast who was wounded by the [small] sword and still lived.(D)
 
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Note: If Satan was "playing the role" of Christ, he would be actively doing it now.

......says who?

Antichrist is a false Christ, according to Matthew 24:24. He claims to be anointed by God with the Holy Spirit and claims to be qualified to do the work in God's name.

You just admitted that Antichrist will play Jesus/God in the above statement. Deception is the name of Satan's game, and his #1 talent is to deceive. He would like nothing more than to play a false Christ.

Note: there are many individuals standing in the pulpit and on TV, misleading individuals day by day as they listen to the crap they are preaching in the name of Christ. The claim to be annoited by God to preach and som claim they can heal an individual.

True....

II Thessalonians 2 points out how Antichrist comes as an impostor [not playing the role] of the Christ from God.

An impostor of who? Again, you just stated Antichrist will play a fake Jesus. Do you not know the meaning of impostor?

Additionally, “Antichrist” is not just a person it’s a system political, religious power, according to
Revelation 13

You're talking about the "New World Order" and "one world religion". Satan will control both when he and his angels are kicked out of heaven and on this earth. Daniel 11:21 validates this.
 
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2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 & 7-9
(2 Th 2:3-4) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; {4} Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God

(2 Th 2:7-9) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. {8} And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: {9} Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Within the context of these verses , we will have a clear understanding of who the Antichrist is. Verse 3 is closely linked with another passage of Scripture which opens up the identity of Antichrist. Incidentally, this passage is used as a proof text that there will be a physical Antichrist on this earth. Yet, this passage nowhere uses the description for the man of sin as Antichrist. Since God uses this moniker in other areas of the New Testament, it would seem appropriate that God would use the title of Antichrist here also.

Do we have a problem? No, we do not! The passage that 2 Thess. 2:3 is linked to is Isaiah 14:12-17. We will focus on only 3 verses but you read the entire passage to gain the understanding of this group of verses.

(Isa 14:12, 16-17) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! {16} They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; {17} That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Did you notice the vital link in these verses to 2 Thess. 2:3? In verse 16, Lucifer, a.k.a., Satan is called "the man." Now we know that Satan is an angel not a physical human being. (The NIV omits "Lucifer" in verse 12 and calls him the morningstar which is the name for Christ in Revelation 2:28 and 22:16.. Isn’t it heresy to equate Christ with Satan? The Mormons do this.)

Here God refers to Satan as the man which caused havoc on the earth. It is interesting to note that in Luke 4:18, the Lord Jesus Christ speaks of preaching deliverance to the captives. Isaiah 14:17 speaks of Satan not opening his house of the prisoners. The whole complicated doctrine need not be complicated.

Let us transfer the title "The Man" to 2 Thess. 2:3 and see if we are on the right track. There we read about the "Man of Sin" which is Satan himself. We saw the passage in Isaiah speaking directly about and to Satan and we see this passage speaking directly about Satan, as the man of sin. The man of sin is not a human being, for what human being can wage the war Satan has been waging against Christ from the time of creation, right in the Garden of Eden.

The Antichrist is therefore Satan and by this understanding of who he is, it fulfills the requirement for the end time prophecy in verse 3, "and that man of sin be revealed,..." The man of sin has been revealed and it is Satan.

In verse 4, we see Satan sitting in the temple of God. The temple in view here is not the physical temple but the temple which is the body of believers. (1 Cor. 3:16-17, 6:19; 2 Cor. 6:16; Eph. 2:21; Rev. 3:12, 11:19) God is warning us that Satan is sitting in the churches and bringing false gospels. The people will think they are worshipping God when in essence they will be worshipping the false gospels of Satan.

This deception is most prevalent in the charismatic churches where they still believe God is bringing new revelation through tongues, signs, and wonders.

In verse 7 we are told of the mystery of iniquity which is already in the world and the Holy Spirit is hindering him until the Holy Spirit removes His restraints. As the Holy Spirit begins to remove restraints evil will begin to multiply and intensify. Who can argue that we are not at that point in history now? Never has there been so much blatant evil in any contemporary generation as in ours.

Verses 8 & 9 yields some precious truths about the destruction of Satan at the second coming of Christ. Verse 8 tells us that when the Holy Spirit restrains His activity, then the wicked one will be revealed. As we have plainly seen, Satan is that wicked one. Verse 9 gives us insight into the final destruction of Satan. The words "even him" are in italics which means they are not in the original. The word "after" should have been translated "against" which gives the verse a clearer understanding. Let’s look at the clarification. http://www.scionofzion.com/antichrist.htm
 
What does Antichrist mean in the Greek?

The Greek preposition anti literally means "instead of".....Satan will be "instead of" Christ.

Think about it, instead of the real Christ, there is a fake Christ. It's that simple.
 
What does Antichrist mean in the Greek?

The Greek preposition anti literally means "instead of".....Satan will be "instead of" Christ.

Think about it, instead of the real Christ, there is a fake Christ. It's that simple.

RB, I have a question for you.... When will the battle of armageddon take place?
 
RB, I already know about the 7th trumpet part, but what I'm looking for is a specific date. Enough with the generalizations, give me specific dates so I'll KNOW you know what the heck you're talking about.

Wrong path, bruh. The only people giving out dates in reference to eschatology are already labeled as false prophets.

Move on.
 
RB, I already know about the 7th trumpet part, but what I'm looking for is a specific date. Enough with the generalizations, give me specific dates so I'll KNOW you know what the heck you're talking about.

It's impossible for me to give you a specific date, however I have given you something better than a specific date. The verse in my SIG(Daniel 11:20) will happen "very" soon, and when this happens, then we know Satan and his angels will be kicked out of heaven shortly after Daniel 11:20 has come to past. Daniel 11:21 talks about Satan's arrival. Having said that, I will give you something better than the previous I mentioned. The bible clearly states that Satan will kill the 2 witnesses in Jerusalem sent by God to chastise Satan and the world. Now, when the 2 witnesses are murdered in the streets of Jerusalem, then you know "Armageddon" will happen "within" 3 days and a half days because Christ will make his appearance 3 and a half days, "after" the 2 witnesses are murdered in the streets of Jerusalem.

What's my point? Satan must show his physical presence to the world as the false Messiah "before" "Armageddon" can take place. Just pay attention to Daniel 11:20 because this is the next major prophecy that will happen next. Keep an eye on it because it pertains to a world leader of today.
 
This is happening now! Just look at early morning and late night TV. There are many hirelings fleecing the flock (heard, flock to small)....These are only Satan's disciples, most will have absolutely no chance against Satan.

Romans 16:18. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Good Day and God Bless

You are correct....
 
Wrong path, bruh. The only people giving out dates in reference to eschatology are already labeled as false prophets.


Are you sure? If so, Murray fits the bill.

Matthew 24:24 applies to anyone. In scripture Satan has already been annointed (although he was - Ezekiel chapter 28 and Isaiah chapter 14).

Lucifer was the Anointed Cherub. Anointed means to be set apart for Gods Divine purpose. It also means "bestowal of Gods divine favor", and "appointment to a special place or function."

Was Satan annointed to work on behalf of God or not. Yes, but this does not imply the he will be playing the role of Jesus, mainly becaus he does not possess the attributes of Jesus or God, meaning he is not Omnipotent, Omniscient or Omnipresent. For Satan to act as Jesus he would have to possess the same attributes as the Godhead.

You really need to start reading and researching the scriptues and stop listening to Murray.
 
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It's impossible for me to give you a specific date, however I have given you something better than a specific date. The verse in my SIG(Daniel 11:20) will happen "very" soon, and when this happens, then we know Satan and his angels will be kicked out of heaven shortly after Daniel 11:20 has come to past......

It's impossible? It wasn't impossible for your pastor Murray, who made predictions. As a matter of fact, Murray made the following predictions:

--1981: Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel taught an anti-Trinitarian belief about God, and Christian Identity. Back in the 1970's, he predicted that the Antichrist would appear before 1981.

AND

--1985: Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel predicted that the war of Armageddon will start on 1985-JUN 8-9 in "a valley of the Alaskan peninsula."

RB, neither of Murray's predictions occurred. I'm waiting for your next excuse to exonerate him. Is he a false prophet or not?
 
RB, I already know about the 7th trumpet part, but what I'm looking for is a specific date. Enough with the generalizations, give me specific dates so I'll KNOW you know what the heck you're talking about.

What if he give a date that exceeds your or our life time?

Our time on this earth isn't a long time if you think about it...
and I don't think everything is meant to be understood...thus all the different languages..

I am of the thought ... you must believe some higher power... and i dont trust all these folk with "hard physical evidence"...

My point is.. why spend time trying to stop other people from believing in what they believe in?

It just come off bad when you just tear down folks beliefs by any means instead of providing the "truth" you have found in what you believe..
 
Are you sure? If so, Murray fits the bill...

Quite sure.

...I am of the thought ... you must believe some higher power... and i dont trust all these folk with "hard physical evidence"...
...
Jared, I knew that you had some redeeming qualities.:flippy:

What if he give a date that exceeds your or our life time?
...My point is.. why spend time trying to stop other people from believing in what they believe in?

It just come off bad when you just tear down folks beliefs by any means instead of providing the "truth" you have found in what you believe..
Any date given will prove to be a lie.

The reason you spend time trying to help other people is that you care about them and you don't want them trapped by lies. I don't want you to walk in a path of distruction when there is something quite simple and reasonable that I can do to help you avoid it. I present what I can to pursuade them, but the choice is ultimately theirs.
 
What if he give a date that exceeds your or our life time?

Our time on this earth isn't a long time if you think about it...
and I don't think everything is meant to be understood...thus all the different languages..

I am of the thought ... you must believe some higher power... and i dont trust all these folk with "hard physical evidence"...

My point is.. why spend time trying to stop other people from believing in what they believe in?

It just come off bad when you just tear down folks beliefs by any means instead of providing the "truth" you have found in what you believe..

First of all, I can't stop anybody from doing anything no more than you can. What I CAN do is point out the flaws and inaccuracies of their statements and the inaccuracies of the information they put forth. They have the right to do the same with info and statements I put forth.....if they can and if they're not afraid. As a matter of fact I WELCOME SUCH!!

Next is, why spend your time only pointing out what I said in trying to show others where they're wrong? Isn't this what Christians and other religious folks do on a daily basis, trying to convince folks to believe the same as they believe? Yes it is.

My question is, why don't you ask religious folks the same question you just asked me? It simply shows biased and prejudiced subjectivity on your part.
When you ask religious folks the same question, with the same enthusiasm you just asked me, then I'll give you my answer.
 

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Quite sure.


Jared, I knew that you had some redeeming qualities.

Dacon, the reason he has redeeming qualities in your eyes is because he seems to agree with your stance on Christianity.

The reason you spend time trying to help other people is that you care about them and you don't want them trapped by lies. I don't want you to walk in a path of distruction when there is something quite simple and reasonable that I can do to help you avoid it. I present what I can to pursuade them, but the choice is ultimately theirs.

My sentiments exactly. The Bible is full of lies and inaccuracies, so how can you sit there and say you're trying to help people not be trapped by lies? I can list a number of paths of destruction brought on by religion, especially Christianity. I present what I can to persuade them, but as you said, the choice is ultimately theirs.

Some of the detructive paths brought on by the Christian religion.....
--Murder of babies
--Murder of women
--Subjugation of women
--Subjugation of whole races
--Defense of slavery
--Murder and genocide of whole races
--The teaching of an ever burning hell fire that burns it's victims forever
--Lies about the origin of diseases and preventing healing by natural means
--Lies about coming world events that never occur
--The command to give hard earned money to so-called priests

I could go on and on and on, but THIS is why I do what I do, to help people to learn to THINK, not change, but THINK. After thinking on their own, then perhaps they can make objective decisions.
 
Quite sure.

dac, I know - just a little Thursday morning humor.



It's impossible for me to give you a specific date, however I have given you something better than a specific date. The verse in my SIG(Daniel 11:20) will happen "very" soon, and when this happens, then we know Satan and his angels will be kicked out of heaven shortly after Daniel 11:20 has come to past......


Wrong, .... this event has already happen [in eternity past]
 
First of all, I can't stop anybody from doing anything no more than you can. What I CAN do is point out the flaws and inaccuracies of their statements and the inaccuracies of the information they put forth. They have the right to do the same with info and statements I put forth.....if they can and if they're not afraid. As a matter of fact I WELCOME SUCH!!

Next is, why spend your time only pointing out what I said in trying to show others where they're wrong? Isn't this what Christians and other religious folks do on a daily basis, trying to convince folks to believe the same as they believe? Yes it is.

My question is, why don't you ask religious folks the same question you just asked me? It simply shows biased and prejudiced subjectivity on your part.
When you ask religious folks the same question, with the same enthusiasm you just asked me, then I'll give you my answer.


I do believe the bible was tampered with.. but I also believe God's word is to strong for man to destruct...

I don't too much go for people of certain religion pointing out why their religion is better than the next...

I honestly don't think God's intent with his words were for people to form groups of "WHO believe this" and "WHO believe that".. "WHO interpret this" and "WHO interpret that"...
I do believe that was done for GREEDY folk to gain control over a group of people....

I think folk should be taught to "read" and interpret on their own....

Now that's my stance.... But I will not argue no one of particular religions why they need to do as I do..

:tup:
 
It's impossible? It wasn't impossible for your pastor Murray, who made predictions. As a matter of fact, Murray made the following predictions:

--1981: Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel taught an anti-Trinitarian belief about God, and Christian Identity. Back in the 1970's, he predicted that the Antichrist would appear before 1981.

AND

--1985: Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel predicted that the war of Armageddon will start on 1985-JUN 8-9 in "a valley of the Alaskan peninsula."

RB, neither of Murray's predictions occurred. I'm waiting for your next excuse to exonerate him. Is he a false prophet or not?


Would you be so kind to post the audio/video of pastor Murray making the prediction for all to hear? If not, then I will take it as a lie "without" any proof seein/hearing pastor Murray make those lying predictions. I have been studying with pastor Murray since 1994, and I have "NEVER" heard him make a prediction of when Christ will return......never. Where is the proof?
 
Would you be so kind to post the audio/video of pastor Murray making the prediction for all to hear? If not, then I will take it as a lie "without" any proof seein/hearing pastor Murray make those lying predictions. I have been studying with pastor Murray since 1994, and I have "NEVER" heard him make a prediction of when Christ will return......never. Where is the proof?

RB, that's a pure copout. You know every word of Murray hasn't been video or audio taped. Even if I did have video/audio, you still would try and justify it. There are too many articles stating the same thing about this Murray fellow and his failed predictions.

Here's one of many:

Arnold Murray: Wolf in disguise?
While at the Southern Poverty Law Centre's website last night, I noticed a new article about Pastor Arnold Murray of the Shepherd's Chapel in Gravette, Arkansas.

You may know this guy for his "chapter by chapter, verse by verse" approach to studying the Bible; and the fact he is a "newspaper" evangelist, tying nearly every major news event to Scripture. Or maybe you may know him for an incident in 1998 when during a live taping of the "wild feed" to stations for syndication a critic in his audience called him a "blasphemer." Murray pulled out his briefcase, and the shot of his desk cut to the logo of his church, but the audio showed him saying, "Here, take this 9 mm to that boy!" When it was later shown on John Stewart's The Daily Show, it became a sensation. Or the "angel footprint" fossil. Or the time he predicted that the 1980 explosion of Mount St. Helens presaged the coming of the anti-Christ the following year (which, of course, didn't happen).

What you may not know about Murray, what the Exempt Media has ignored or chosen to ignore but what has been well known in more informed circles, is that Murray is considered a hero by many in the White Identity movement; the concept that God made whites superior to all the other races on the planet. While Murray himself specifically denounces racism, it is a fact that he was ordained fifty years ago by members of what can be politely called the "White Identity" movement. He also is very critical of a group called the "Kenites."
------

As a matter of fact RB, you advocate these very teachings about the White race being god's chosen people. You've said it time and time again. The part about the 9mm is evident in the video of Murray pulling out his gun. The part about him predicting the anti-christ is well documented by dozens and dozens of websites having nothing in common with each other. I'm sure if you asked some of your older church/cult members, they would enlighten you.

Here's another one.
--http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl22.htm
(See 1981 and 1985)

All one has to do is do their research.
 
I do believe the bible was tampered with.. but I also believe
God's word is to strong for man to destruct...

What's god's word and where is it located?

I don't too much go for people of certain religion pointing out why their religion is better than the next...

Tell that to these fundamental Christians who cancel out everything and everyone else if it goes against their beliefs.

I honestly don't think God's intent with his words were for people to form groups of "WHO believe this" and "WHO believe that".. "WHO interpret this" and "WHO interpret that"...
I do believe that was done for GREEDY folk to gain control over a group of people....

Again, what is god's word and where is it found?

I think folk should be taught to "read" and interpret on their own....

Isn't that what I'm doing, giving people the opportunity to think for themselves? What book should folks be interpreting?

Now that's my stance.... But I will not argue no one of particular religions why they need to do as I do..

Some folks call debating a subject arguing. If that's the case, then the apostle Paul argued with the Greeks quite often. Everyone has the right to follow his own heart, but if someone posts something on a religion that's not accurate, it's open game for anyone to challenge, including myself.

As for me, I wholeheartedly welcome folks of ANY religion to challenge what I post, just as long as they don't misquote me.
I find it when Christians and the Bible are challenged, people get highly upset and defensive. Instead of challenging the message, they oftentimes attack the messenger, by calling him a satan or devil. Maybe that's easier for them to do than actually disproving the posts.
 
Dacon, the reason he has redeeming qualities in your eyes is because he seems to agree with your stance on Christianity...
The vast majority of my exchanges with Jared have been about music. However, in this instance (eschatology), you are precisely right.

...Some of the detructive paths brought on by the Christian religion.....

I could go on and on and on, but THIS is why I do what I do, to help people to learn to THINK, not change, but THINK. After thinking on their own, then perhaps they can make objective decisions.
For the record...

--Murder of babies - [PAGAN]
--Murder of women - [PAGAN]
--Subjugation of women - [PAGAN]
--Subjugation of whole races - [PAGAN]
--Defense of slavery - CORRECT
--Murder and genocide of whole races - [PAGAN]
--The teaching of an ever burning hell fire that burns it's victims forever - ABSOLUTELY
--Lies about the origin of diseases and preventing healing by natural means - I have no idea of what you are referring to
--Lies about coming world events that never occur - [Please try something else]
--The command to give hard earned money to so-called priests - [Judaism & Christianity]

Just giving credit where it is due
 
For the record...

Murder of babies - [PAGAN]
Dacon, why must you sit here and lie? This was biblical and you know it.
God instructed Saul through the prophet Samuel to “go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey” (1 Samuel 15:3-4, emp. added).

Murder of women - [PAGAN]

Again, it's biblical. Quit trying to throw the crimes of your god off on pagans. They were guilty but so were the Israelites as ordered by their god.
God instructed Saul through the prophet Samuel to “go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey” (1 Samuel 15:3-4, emp. added).

Subjugation of women - [PAGAN]

In Genesis 3-16, God gets really upset with Eve for eating the fruit and making Adam also take a bite, and he:
1. makes her (and all that follow her) have very painful childbirths.
2. proclaims that her husband shall rule over her. We know how some religions that interpret this literally use it to restrict women.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35: "Let the women keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a disgrace for a woman to speak in church."

Total subjuagation of women. No ifs, ands or buts about it.

Subjugation of whole races - [PAGAN]

Again you fabricate the truth. The Old Testament god ordered total extermination of whole races. See Amalakites and Canaanites.

Defense of slavery - CORRECT

Finally some honesty.

Murder and genocide of whole races - [PAGAN]

Another fabrication of the truth. Anyone who barely studies the Old Testament will readily admit this truth.

The teaching of an ever burning hell fire that burns it's victims forever - ABSOLUTELY

Even the terrible god of the Old Testamnet doesn't go this far, to follow humans after they die into an ever burning hell fire. Only meek and mild Jesus subjects humans to such evil for all eternity.

Lies about the origin of diseases and preventing healing by natural means - I have no idea of what you are referring to

People taught that physical diseases were caused by evil spirits. There's no physical evidence that evil spirits cause physical diseases.

Lies about coming world events that never occur - [Please try something else]

No prophesied beast power has arisen; no anti-christ has arisen on the world scene; no ten nation kingdom has arisen on the world scene; no one world religion has arisen on the world scene; no attack on Israel by Russians has occurred; I could go on and on.

The command to give hard earned money to so-called priests - [Judaism & Christianity]

Just giving credit where it is due

Total sanctioning of stealing from poor people for nonsense religious rulers.

Dacon, you know that you're misleading folks when you choose to ignore what the Old Testament god ordered. You're so quick to point the finger at pagans, while blindly ignoring the evil mentioned right there in your own Bible.
One doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to see this, but one does have to be honest and truthful to admit it.
 
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