What Will it Take?


Herbert77060 said:
I hear you and one thing I am noticing is how differently 5 star athletes think and approach the game.

The reason I pose these questions is because I remember when the SWAC participated in the playoffs and even with Robinson and Casem and Cooley led teams we still got drove. So, would Tennessee State with Eldridge Dickey have been able to compete with/beat UT with James Street?
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Our teams were superior athletically but our coaches back then were stubborn as hell. All Swac teams ran straight man to man defense. When we played the PWC they would play zone and our QB's had never seen or played against zones and struggled. The Swac didn't start playing zone defense until Pete showed up.
 
Herbert77060 said:
But were we ever able to compete? I mentioned the games Grambling (with coach Rob) and other games where we were driven like a hoopty. Would a "loaded" Grambling or Tennesee State (with coach Merritt) have been able to compete with Alabama, Michigan, USC?
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The answer is a resounding yes. Grambling was beating PAC-10 schools as late as the early 80s. By the late 70s, Icon Gram had a 1st round draft pick in Doug Williams and NFL rookie of the year - Sammy White - in the same back field. There is a reason why Icon Gram and La Tech, situated in four miles apart, played for the first time in the late 2000s. BCF was something serious in the 60 and 70s. I imagine the parallel would be the SWAC more like the present day SEC.

Also, the SC / Bama game (I think in 1972) where many refer to the game that pushed integration, was propelled by the SC RB Cunningham running circles around the Bama defense. The Cunninghams of the world were a dime a dozen in BCF in the early 70s. HBO did a documentary on this game, where they interviewed local Birmingham Black folks. They thought that Bama was playing Grambling because they never saw Bama play so many Black players.
 



Herbert77060 said:
The reason I pose these questions is because I remember when the SWAC participated in the playoffs and even with Robinson and Casem and Cooley led teams we still got drove. So, would Tennessee State with Eldridge Dickey have been able to compete with/beat UT with James Street?
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I understand your larger point, but I just want to add that the 3 years that Grambling has been in the playoffs all of those matchup were closely contested.

1980 - Boise State L 9–14
1985 - Arkansas State L 7–10
1989 - Stephen F. Austin L 56–59 (Fred Jones caught that ball in the endzone - dammit :mad:)

Anyway, I think the one primary difference between HBCU programs versus the rest of FCS America, is that HBCUs are likely recruiting mostly black recruits. FCS programs, on the other hand, are recruiting the best recruits they can get from black and white communities. Not that this is news for anyone one in here, but white kids can ball too.
 
Herbert77060 said:
I am noticing is how differently 5 star athletes think and approach the game.
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I think everyone should seriously do their best to speak to one of these 4-5 star athletes so you can see for yourself how programmed they are. And, if you can stomach being in the midst of their dumb assed parents for more than 2-3 minutes, try to listen to them and their views as well. It's almost mind-boggling coupled w/ sickening. *vomiting*

smh :(
 
GSUperTiger said:
I imagine the parallel would be the SWAC more like the present day SEC.
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+10000000000. PRECISELY!!!! I never really paid attention to the sec until I noted their footprint, which is the EXACT same footprint as the SWAC. When you look @ present day sec, you see old school SWAC - period, w/ its caliber of physically gifted black students. I said quite a few years ago, while looking @ ole miss, that their defense reminded me of the JSU squads of the 1980s. Big, tall, strong, and dominant.

If you want to catch a glimpse of how the SWAC was, look @ a few sec squads sans vandy.
 
Bewildered said:
+10000000000. PRECISELY!!!! I never really paid attention to the sec until I noted their footprint, which is the EXACT same footprint as the SWAC. When you look @ present day sec, you see old school SWAC - period, w/ its caliber of physically gifted black students. I said quite a few years ago, while looking @ ole miss, that their defense reminded me of the JSU squads of the 1980s. Big, tall, strong, and dominant.

If you want to catch a glimpse of how the SWAC was, look @ a few sec squads sans vandy.
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Look at Walter Payton's draft class. 3 SWAC players taken in the first 10 picks, and ahead of all present day SEC team players......Why can't today's student athletes respect the heritage of the HBCU? If the unity and commitment was there, HBCU athletic programs would thrive and subsequently the institutions overall health improves. I know I'm a hopeless "dreamer."
 
GSUperTiger said:
The answer is a resounding yes. Grambling was beating PAC-10 schools as late as the early 80s. By the late 70s, Icon Gram had a 1st round draft pick in Doug Williams and NFL rookie of the year - Sammy White - in the same back field. There is a reason why Icon Gram and La Tech, situated in four miles apart, played for the first time in the late 2000s. BCF was something serious in the 60 and 70s. I imagine the parallel would be the SWAC more like the present day SEC.

Also, the SC / Bama game (I think in 1972) where many refer to the game that pushed integration, was propelled by the SC RB Cunningham running circles around the Bama defense. The Cunninghams of the world were a dime a dozen in BCF in the early 70s. HBO did a documentary on this game, where they interviewed local Birmingham Black folks. They thought that Bama was playing Grambling because they never saw Bama play so many Black players.
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This may be the most ridiculous thing ive read in a while. Like the modern day SEC....Come on now. You had some good wins but still not one swac team managed even an fcs championship.
 
BraveMan97 said:
Look at Walter Payton's draft class. 3 SWAC players taken in the first 10 picks, and ahead of all present day SEC team players......Why can't today's student athletes respect the heritage of the HBCU? If the unity and commitment was there, HBCU athletic programs would thrive and subsequently the institutions overall health improves. I know I'm a hopeless "dreamer."
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what was jsu playoff record during that time....there was never a dominant hbcu era. Better than now, yes. At the same time what other options did kids have back then? Heritage gets no players for anyone unless that heritage is winning championships.
 
I think the attrition of talented black men from HBCUs during the late 1960s to early-mid 1970s was getting its foothold during the mid-1970s to late 1970s thereby setting the foundation for what we saw during speciifc head-to-head competitions when then I-AA was formed in 1977/1978. Ironic that FAMU won the first and last non-HBCU football national championship during that same year (1978). By the start of the 1980s, the monster we see now was full-fledged all in. During the latter half of the 1980s to very early 1990s, there were spots here and there of talented individuals, not teams. IMHO, and some may not see it as such, the last of the dominant-type HBCU teams (not individuals) were the Pete Richardson let SU teams of the early 1990s. However, they still wouldn't be able to match the strength and depth of the former I-A squads. I do believe they would've competed well vs the early 1990s then I-AA PWCU squads though.
 
unknown1 said:
what was jsu playoff record during that time....there was never a dominant hbcu era. Better than now, yes. At the same time what other options did kids have back then? Heritage gets no players for anyone unless that heritage is winning championships.
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SO do you think the pre-integration HBCU athletic programs weren't talent superior? What is the common thread between dominant teams or team with winning traditions? What does that common thread have in common with the majority of HBCU student population demographic?
 
unknown1 said:
what was jsu playoff record during that time....there was never a dominant hbcu era. Better than now, yes. At the same time what other options did kids have back then? Heritage gets no players for anyone unless that heritage is winning championships.
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Payton was drafted in 1975, the playoff started in 1978. The money in sport has changed the landscape. When I graduated in 1971 the average starting salary for a computer programmer was $8500.00; the average NFL salary was approximately $27000.00. Today the average starting entry level salary for an IT professional is $45000.00, and the minimum NFL salary is 450000.00 and the average salary is 2000000.00. Many of the gifted high school athletes in the 1960s did not pursue a professional career because the money was not as enticing as it is today.

Also, while I was at Jackson State coaches were faculty members with teaching responsibilities (they may have been paid something extra for coaching, I don't know). This was probably the case at most colleges. Today, coaches only coach and their salary is many times that of a professor.

While I was in JSU bookstore last week I over-heard a boy tell his father he was not wearing anything JSU. I would be surprised if he participated in any sport because he was about 5'8'' and 150 lb. So, I can imagine how difficult recruiting is for our schools. I don't our schools will ever get the gifted athletes again, we don't have the money.
 
unknown1 said:
This may be the most ridiculous thing ive read in a while. Like the modern day SEC....Come on now. You had some good wins but still not one swac team managed even an fcs championship.
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The playoffs didn't start until 78 and the first 1-AA playoff was dominated by HBCUs as JSU and FAMU had great teams and played a tough game at Memorial. FAMU went on to win the 1-AA title. But I think folks are talking late 60s to mid 70s talent at our HBCUs. The James Harris, Doug Williams, Ernie Ladd, Walter Payton, Jackie Slater, etc time frame before the 1-AA playoffs ever started. I doubt if some FBS teams back then wanted any part of Grambling. LSU would have gotten their asses beat to death by them 70s Grambling teams.
 
unknown1 said:
This may be the most ridiculous thing ive read in a while. Like the modern day SEC....Come on now. You had some good wins but still not one swac team managed even an fcs championship.
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You missed my point entirely. Ignorance is not bliss.
 
Simply put... if you're not building adequate facilities (notice, I didn't say COMPARABLE)... if you're not treating recruits like kings & queens.. if you're not marketing current players...if you're not hiring the best qualified coaches and not just the frat brothers or retread black college coaches... if you're not treating FORMER players and championship teams like kings and queens upon their return to campus...you wont compete with OOC FCS schools for recruits, much less power 5 schools.

Everything I just mentioned could be done without going broke. Will it cost more than what HBCUs are currently spending? Yes. But it can be done. It just has to be a priority.

By the way.. BASKETBALL has a higher chance of competing nationally than football due to the cost of staffing & scholarships.
 



White athletes will hold you hostage recruiting them as a d2 pwc or fcs school swoops in at the last minute and offers a safety net
 
the band fan said:
White athletes will hold you hostage recruiting them as a d2 pwc or fcs school swoops in at the last minute and offers a safety net
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Well, I'm not in that amen corner.

Who's the top white offensive lineman in Texas? Prairie View should have been offered him and had him walk the campus for an official visit.
 
they do...and I'm talking about ones that can play...not a dud...ones that grew up in the suburbs loving A&T and UT but realizing their not good enough

you can get them if you go out of state but then you gotta have the administrative support to be allowed to do so
 
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