What Will it Take?


Herbert77060

Herbert77060

Texas Southern University
I have been pondering this for a long long long long time.

Question 1: Were our football teams ever able to compete with the "big" schools?
Question 2: Considering how anemic we are against OOC FCS schools will we ever be able to compete with non-Black FCS foes?
Question 3: Considering that sTu once beat SHSU (in our first ever meeting I believe) what has happened to us (HBCUs)?
Question 4: Are we being delusional in our assessment of our football programs?
 
Last edited:



Kendrick said:
4. All fan bases across the country are delusional to varying degrees about their school's football program.
Click to expand...
That is not what I mean. Are we fairly assessing our teams' ability to compete OOC? I get being a 'homer' but I have been watching what we call D1 football for a long time and even our best teams are woefully lacking when it comes to other conferences. Tennessee State was a juggernaut in Black college football but they have been, for the most part, a non-factor since they joined the OVC.

Don't get me wrong, I want our schools to beat the brakes off non-traditional opponents but that is beginning to seem like it ain't gon' hap'n cap'm. We brag about beating each other but when it comes to the other folk (even those supposedly on our level) we are pitiful and it is frustrating as hell to me.
 
That's a recruiting and coaching issue. If your school is making the wrong hires at the head coach position, that can set a program back several recruiting classes. That makes it difficult to compete beyond conference play, where other schools have stability at head coach and are able to bring in quality recruits and quality depth.

And you have to look at the AD and the resources provided to the program. If those areas are lacking, it's hard to win at any level of football.
 
Kendrick said:
That's a recruiting and coaching issue. If your school is making the wrong hires at the head coach position, that can set a program back several recruiting classes. That makes it difficult to compete beyond conference play, where other schools have stability at head coach and are able to bring in quality recruits and quality depth.

And you have to look at the AD and the resources provided to the program. If those areas are lacking, it's hard to win at any level of football.
Click to expand...
Then that applies to all of our schools and goes back as far as I can remember. I remember the games played by Grambling (Doug Williams), Valley (Willie Totten and Rice), Alcorn (McNair) and others and they got waxed.

By the way, thank you for your replies
 
you had better talent in the 90s in some cases and people forget that as we had open admissions, transfer friendly majors, etc., better attendance, more going for us..less football playing schools so that borderline FBS player is coing to the HBCU instead of wasting time at New Mexico State, FIU, FAU...the PWC can get the good black athletes and white ones as a fallback

Also with APR, most HBCUs have tightened things enrollment wise and that has affected athletics while PWCs will use exceptions on athletes still. Look at the majors.

lastly, player development has a lot to do with it..strength and conditioning development has to be looked at...not just salaries, staff, the whole gamut. Its easy on the female side to asses but in football, its way deeper
 
To answer all of your questions....money. I personally believe EVERY recruit going to a FBS school is getting paid illegally under the table. EVERY last single one of them.
 
The big difference is the PWI couldn't care less if our kids get educated, at our schools they have to actually go to class and can't practice 60% of the day like the kids do at PWIs. We don't have the non descript majors like they do and we don't send other kids to class for our athletes. Listening to our coach, we sat some upper classmen athletes after they missed study hall, you would never see that at an FBS or larger FCS school. Our poor kids go to these PWIs falling for the fools gold of going pro when in reality most of them end upwith no degree and a college career they can brag about the rest of their life.
 
Our schools for the most part don't schedule FCS schools that provide a fair barometer of where we really stand in the FCS (Valley has played a FBS school pretending to be a FCS school 3 consecutive years. If Comegy is back next year, we aren't competing with NDSU next year). With the 9 game mandate I don't blame them because it's a waste of time to schedule a UCA or McNeese State to "compete" when we are trying to balance budgets.

With the 7 game slate back, I would love to see Grambling with Kincaide and Fobbs go and stomp a mudhole in SELA or Southern run SFA off the field. Fobbs, Odoms and Simmons have separated themselves from the rest of the SWAC coaching wise and the rest are trying to catch up (although I admit JSU could be good in a year or two if their offense catches up with their defense)
 
Herbert77060 said:
I have been pondering this for a long long long long time.

Question 1: Were our football teams ever able to compete with the "big" schools?
Question 2: Considering how anemic we are against OOC FCS schools will we ever be able to compete with non-Black FCS foes?
Question 3: Considering that sTu once beat SHSU (in our first ever meeting I believe) what has happened to us (HBCUs)?
Question 4: Are we being delusional in our assessment of our football programs?
Click to expand...

1. I am only speaking for Grambling but I think we are in a position to compete with the big schools now....(see Arizona game).

2. Yes

3. Our talent is playing for the PWCs, but I think sometimes we sell ourselves short when going to find talent (to include coaching). Additionally we have to have a belief that we are not beaten before taking the field

4. Somewhat, but that is the meaning of being a fan and alum. At the end of the day, the players and coaches decide the outcome and importance of those types of games.
 



But were we ever able to compete? I mentioned the games Grambling (with coach Rob) and other games where we were driven like a hoopty. Would a "loaded" Grambling or Tennesee State (with coach Merritt) have been able to compete with Alabama, Michigan, USC?
 
Herbert77060 said:
But were we ever able to compete? I mentioned the games Grambling (with coach Rob) and other games where we were driven like a hoopty. Would a "loaded" Grambling or Tennesee State (with coach Merritt) have been able to compete with Alabama, Michigan, USC?
Click to expand...

Hard to compare athletes decades apart in my opinion
 
I see what you're getting @Herbert77060

There is no doubt in my mind that those super teams of yesteryear would monkey-stomp a hole in these current d-1 fbs schools (at that time), as we know them. For us in Texas, if you look @ all these big names of the colored athletes @ ut-austin, txa&m, uofh, rice, txtech, smu, baylor, and even utep/utsa/unt-denton, it's not hard to imagine all of the collectively walking on the campus of PVAMU, sTu, and even the smaller church affiliated HBCUs like Huston-Tillotson, Jarvis, Wiley,et al. All of our campuses had nothing but thoroughbreds. The best of the best of the best. Remember, it's MUCH MUCH easier to teach a thoroughbred to run in the kentucky derby than to teach a mule.

The fbs folks and the upper echelon fcs guys look good because they recruit and retain thoroughbreds and we're working w/ mules, for the most part. (overall)
 
The Founder said:
To answer all of your questions....money. I personally believe EVERY recruit going to a FBS school is getting paid illegally under the table. EVERY last single one of them.
Click to expand...
And recruiting trips have "fringe" benefits that rule out HBCU as potential commitments
Money plays a major part in the lack of growth at HBCU programs.
 
BraveMan97 said:
And recruiting trips have "fringe" benefits that rule out HBCU as potential commitments
Money plays a major part in the lack of growth at HBCU programs.
Click to expand...

JAG89 said:
Plenty of punanny of all kinds. Most high school male athletes think that they are studs and are God's gift to women.
Click to expand...

Arkansas has Razorback Belles that assist in recruiting.....sorry if I make some folks mad if your relative is a Razorback Belle but these chicks throw out that puddin all day long. They are some validated wanton women....I know a few chicks who lived in HOUSES in good neighborhoods. Yea we can say they were renting it but it was interesting that during recruiting trips was the only time they had people over.

I think I told this story a while back but some freshman football players were calling one of the Razorback Bellls's a hoe etc....until some of the senior players approached them and informed them of the role these girls play.

It's ridiculous.
 
Bewildered said:
I see what you're getting @Herbert77060

There is no doubt in my mind that those super teams of yesteryear would monkey-stomp a hole in these current d-1 fbs schools (at that time), as we know them. For us in Texas, if you look @ all these big names of the colored athletes @ ut-austin, txa&m, uofh, rice, txtech, smu, baylor, and even utep/utsa/unt-denton, it's not hard to imagine all of the collectively walking on the campus of PVAMU, sTu, and even the smaller church affiliated HBCUs like Huston-Tillotson, Jarvis, Wiley,et al. All of our campuses had nothing but thoroughbreds. The best of the best of the best. Remember, it's MUCH MUCH easier to teach a thoroughbred to run in the kentucky derby than to teach a mule.

The fbs folks and the upper echelon fcs guys look good because they recruit and retain thoroughbreds and we're working w/ mules, for the most part. (overall)
Click to expand...
I hear you and one thing I am noticing is how differently 5 star athletes think and approach the game.

The reason I pose these questions is because I remember when the SWAC participated in the playoffs and even with Robinson and Casem and Cooley led teams we still got drove. So, would Tennessee State with Eldridge Dickey have been able to compete with/beat UT with James Street?
 
the band fan said:
you had better talent in the 90s in some cases and people forget that as we had open admissions, transfer friendly majors, etc., better attendance, more going for us..less football playing schools so that borderline FBS player is coing to the HBCU instead of wasting time at New Mexico State, FIU, FAU...the PWC can get the good black athletes and white ones as a fallback

Also with APR, most HBCUs have tightened things enrollment wise and that has affected athletics while PWCs will use exceptions on athletes still. Look at the majors.

lastly, player development has a lot to do with it..strength and conditioning development has to be looked at...not just salaries, staff, the whole gamut. Its easy on the female side to asses but in football, its way deeper
Click to expand...

I gave you the serious side-eye until I read closely and saw you actually meant ASSESS........

carry on
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top