Those "itchin" for war have never served.


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...says Vietnam War Veteran.


Untested Administration Hawks Clamor for War

By James Bamford for USA TODAY 17 September 2002

Beware of war hawks who never served in the military.

That, in essence, was the message of retired four-star Marine Corps general Anthony Zinni, a highly decorated veteran of the Vietnam War and the White House point man on the Middle East crisis. Zinni is one of a growing number of uniformed officers, in and out of the Pentagon, urging caution on the issue of a pre-emptive strike against Iraq.

In an address recently in Florida, he warned his audience to watch out for the administration's civilian superhawks, most of whom avoided military service as best they could. "If you ask me my opinion," said Zinni, referring to Iraq, "Gen. (Brent) Scowcroft, Gen. (Colin) Powell, Gen. (Norman) Schwarzkopf and Gen. Zinni maybe all see this the same way. It might be interesting to wonder why all of the generals see it the same way, and all those (who) never fired a shot in anger (and) are really hellbent to go to war see it a different way.

"That's usually the way it is in history," he said.

Another veteran, Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., who served in combat in Vietnam and now sits on the Foreign Relations Committee, was even more blunt. "It is interesting to me that many of those who want to rush this country into war and think it would be so quick and easy don't know anything about war," he said. "They come at it from an intellectual perspective vs. having sat in jungles or foxholes and watched their friends get their heads blown off."

The problem is not new. More than 100 years ago, another battle-scarred soldier, Civil War Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman, observed: "It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation."

Last month, Vice President Cheney emerged briefly to give several two-gun talks before veterans groups in which he spoke of "regime change" and a "liberated Iraq."

"We must take the battle to the enemy," he said of the war on terrorism. Cheney went on to praise the virtue of military service. "The single most important asset we have," he said, "is the man or woman who steps forward and puts on the uniform of this great nation."

But during the bloodiest years of the Vietnam War, Cheney decided against wearing that uniform. Instead, he used multiple deferments to avoid military service altogether. "I had other priorities in the '60s than military service," he once said.

Cheney is far from alone. For instance, neither Paul Wolfowitz, the deputy Defense secretary, nor Richard Perle, chairman of the Defense Policy Board, has served in uniform, yet they are now two of the most bellicose champions of launching a bloody war in the Middle East.

What frightens many is the arrogance, na?vet? and cavalier attitude toward war. "The Army guys don't know anything," Perle told The Nation's David Corn earlier this year. With "40,000 troops," he said, the United States could easily take over Iraq. "We don't need anyone else." But by most other estimates, a minimum of 200,000 to 250,000 troops would be needed, plus the support of many allies.

Even among Republicans, the warfare between the veterans and non-vets can be intense. "Maybe Mr. Perle would like to be in the first wave of those who go into Baghdad," Hagel, who came home from Vietnam with two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, told The New York Times.

Secretary of State Colin Powell, a Vietnam combat veteran and former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has often expressed anger about the class gap between those who fought in Vietnam and those who did not.

"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units," he wrote in his 1995 autobiography, My American Journey. "Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."

Non-combatants, however, litter the top ranks of the Republican hierarchy. President Bush served peacefully in the Texas National Guard. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld spent his time in a Princeton classroom as others in his age group were fighting and dying on Korean battlefields (he later joined the peacetime Navy). Another major player in the administration's war strategy, Douglas Feith, the Defense undersecretary for policy, has no experience in the military. Nor does Cheney's influential chief of staff, Lewis Libby.

The top congressional Republican leaders ? Senate Minority Leader Trent Lott, House Speaker Dennis Hastert, House Majority Leader Dick Armey and House Majority Whip Tom Delay ? never saw military service, either; only one, Armey, has shown hesitation about invading Iraq. In contrast, House International Relations Committee Chairman Henry Hyde, R-Ill., a World War II c
 
I think it's just the (White) American mentality. And a few of us have been contaminated. They call us the police of the world. But we're really the bullies of the world. We're the biggest and the baddest. And the reaction whenever we don't like someone is "let's go blow em up" or "let's sanction them to death." This time around we happen to be dealing with some pretty evil people. But there are plenty of instances where we do it to people just because they are not in our best interest.
 



God I can't wait til Bush gets the hell outta office. This mutha would set the world back 25 years if he had his way.
 
I didn't have to read the entire article to know exactly what it was talking about.......CLINTON was the same way when it came down to sending troops to other countries. :idea:
 
Originally posted by chocalate_topaz
Ever notice how the folks always harping for war didnt serve and don't have sons to serve?:(

You damn right, it's people like me that have to go over there, and I ain't giving nobody a chance to shoot at me. If u old enough to hold a gun, you old enough to get shot. Even children if it comes down to it. I'll tell them like my sign saysYou ain't gone do it, old age gone kill me!!!!!!
 
To me it's very disturbing not to have people experienced in war making war decisions. This is our future, not with just the Bush administration, but with in general. There are not a lot of powerful war tested leaders left, and we won't have that many from the Gulf War. Sometimes I think we need people such as these to guide us and put things in perspective.
 
Bush always trying to throw his weight around on small undeveloped countries, just like his daddy did. If you ask me this whole war is about oil. He need to leave Saddam alone, he keep messing around with these small countries, and they gonna gang up on us. And if China get involved it's:splat: and u know the we aint ready for a war on U.S. soil. I say so what they got nuclear weapons, so do the United States and China, just don't be pushing up on nobody, cause ain't nothing like a damn fool with a gun.
 
Originally posted by Dr. Sweet NUPE
I didn't have to read the entire article to know exactly what it was talking about.......CLINTON was the same way when it came down to sending troops to other countries. :idea:

There is a big difference between Clinton and Bush. Clinton wanted to send small scale forces on peace-keeping missions and to nations that asked for help. HE has trying to go blow up everyone we don't like.
 
I have a problem with some Republicans. They always talk in worst-case scenerio. Like "If Saddam isn't gone by Thanksgiving, New York is gonna get nuked." Bush did the same thing when he was talking about a missle defence program when he was first elected. They always talk as if we're on the brink of something terrible.
 
Originally posted by Sonic98
I have a problem with some Republicans. They always talk in worst-case scenerio. Like "If Saddam isn't gone by Thanksgiving, New York is gonna get nuked." Bush did the same thing when he was talking about a missle defence program when he was first elected. They always talk as if we're on the brink of something terrible.


Those are the "scare" tactics they use to rally the American public to support their war-mongering efforts to go and blow someone up! Without it, they realize that it is impossible to convince people that we should initiate a military conflict. Unfortunately, there are a great number of this nation's citizens who are gung-ho, and fall for the rhetoric. :smh:
 
Originally posted by AAMU Alum



Those are the "scare" tactics they use to rally the American public to support their war-mongering efforts to go and blow someone up! Without it, they realize that it is impossible to convince people that we should initiate a military conflict. Unfortunately, there are a great number of this nation's citizens who are gung-ho, and fall for the rhetoric. :smh:

Correct. In fact, Bush's people even said that they waited until AFTER Labour Day to declare that Saddam was a "threat" because it would be better to do so AFTER the holiday than BEFORE. If he is such a threat, then why talk about it? Why not just have a clandestine mission to assassinate him? OK, there are legal reasons for that one. Seriously, the REAL threat that Saddam represents is this: The US wants to build an oil pipeline through Iraq. Saddam said NO. We want a pipeline, he doesn't. Problem, and $$$ talks. Thus, Saddam must go. Problem. Many Americans, include me, don't want to go to war over oil AGAIN. We especially don't want to go to war against a VERY poor nation (who is poor in part because of OUR policies toward that nation) over their only natural resource. Furthermore, we don't want to go to war against someone that OUR government put into power 20 years ago--some one whom we BACKED 15 years ago.

Not in MY name, Dubya.

http://www.nion.us/
 
Originally posted by AAMU Alum



Those are the "scare" tactics they use to rally the American public to support their war-mongering efforts to go and blow someone up! Without it, they realize that it is impossible to convince people that we should initiate a military conflict. Unfortunately, there are a great number of this nation's citizens who are gung-ho, and fall for the rhetoric. :smh:

Some people don't have to be "scared" too much. I think we have some really stupid white people in this country. They're no different than Germans during World War II. The right President in office could probably convince them that the Mexicans are the source of all American problems. There would be so much backlash against Mexicans and the KKK would probably regain some prominence.
 
Originally posted by Sonic98


Some people don't have to be "scared" too much. I think we have some really stupid white people in this country. They're no different than Germans during World War II. The right President in office could probably convince them that the Mexicans are the source of all American problems. There would be so much backlash against Mexicans and the KKK would probably regain some prominence.

It's not just white people, man. It's AMERICAN people. I've heard the same rhetoric coming from Black folk, as well. And here in TX, you can find a good number of Black folk who have issues with your examples, the Mexicans, for the same reason that many Germans hated Jews during the depression. Divisive thinking won't solve societal problems.
 
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