The Most Balanced Sound in '06? JSU!!!


JayRob said:
Emulate su in what? Please be more specific.
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The trend is to go for the big, brassy sound and do so very loudly.

As JSUBENGAL said, the big band sound is what was established at JSU. You could hear it come through in the arrangement of every modern tune the Boom played. Now, all too often, I hear more attempts by individuals playing soprano brass to have their voices to speak out. The concept of the ensemble has been interrupted and the continuity lost.

So, at JSU, I see two primary issues: the overall arranging has gone in a direction that does not reflect the instrumentation and virtuosity has replaced the good of the ensemble in the wrong places/times.
 
JayRob said:
Emulate su in what? Please be more specific.
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Uh Jay Rob, this goes back to Mr. Taylor who told me this himself........He liked how SU was a brassier sounding band and Taylor tweeked JSU's instrumentation to come close to what we doing at SU. He still had clarinets, pics and saxophones but not the number they had back in the day. Also you could see JSU getting bigger and bigger in the trumpet section until one year recently I think they had close to 50 or 60 trumpets. I know that for a fact since that was my instrument I always count how many I see in bands. So DaContinent is correct and since he is an old Boom member he can see the change even more. Dr. Greggs brass style sounding bands at SU have influenced pretty much every band in the SWAC. Go look at tapes from the 70s 80s and then the 90s. You will see how many bands drastically changed their instrumentation while SU remained the same. Actually know that there are more women in the band......the Juke has more woodwinds than what we had in the 80s. Hell in 85 we marched with 42 t-bones, 38 trumpets, 16 baritones, 20 Tubas, 12 or 14 Mellos. Probably had 16-20 Alto -Saxs, 6 Tenox Sax, and maybe 6 clarinets and I think we had 1 pic. LOL. Since we were all male the numbers of woodwinds were at a minimum even though we marched 160 on the field and had about 180 band members total.
 



dacontinent said:
The trend is to go for the big, brassy sound and do so very loudly.

As JSUBENGAL said, the big band sound is what was established at JSU. You could hear it come through in the arrangement of every modern tune the Boom played. Now, all too often, I hear more attempts by individuals playing soprano brass to have their voices to speak out. The concept of the ensemble has been interrupted and the continuity lost.

So, at JSU, I see two primary issues: the overall arranging has gone in a direction that does not reflect the instrumentation and virtuosity has replaced the good of the ensemble in the wrong places/times.
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That may be with a couple of horns or trumpets, but you still haven't provided any evidence that Liddell is copying su.

One or two brass instruments here and there doesn't constitute or equate to imitating su.
 
JR said:
Uh Jay Rob, this goes back to Mr. Taylor who told me this himself........He liked how SU was a brassier sounding band and Taylor tweeked JSU's instrumentation to come close to what we doing at SU. He still had clarinets, pics and saxophones but not the number they had back in the day. Also you could see JSU getting bigger and bigger in the trumpet section until one year recently I think they had close to 50 or 60 trumpets. I know that for a fact since that was my instrument I always count how many I see in bands. So DaContinent is correct and since he is an old Boom member he can see the change even more. Dr. Greggs brass style sounding bands at SU have influenced pretty much every band in the SWAC. Go look at tapes from the 70s 80s and then the 90s. You will see how many bands drastically changed their instrumentation while SU remained the same. Actually know that there are more women in the band......the Juke has more woodwinds than what we had in the 80s. Hell in 85 we marched with 42 t-bones, 38 trumpets, 16 baritones, 20 Tubas, 12 or 14 Mellos. Probably had 16-20 Alto -Saxs, 6 Tenox Sax, and maybe 6 clarinets and I think we had 1 pic. LOL. Since we were all male the numbers of woodwinds were at a minimum even though we marched 160 on the field and had about 180 band members total.
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su hasn't remained the same. You said it yourself that they're adding more women and more woodwind instruments. Why isn't that not mentioned? Who are they imitating?

My point is that directors learn and take from each other.
Hell, su's marching style is the same style I witnessed when I was at Michigan State. It blew my mind when I saw them whiteboys marching like some SWAC bands, and doing the backbend. I thought they had stolen from su, but turns out, it was the other way around.

So let's not make it seem that su's is the end all to everything. People need to admit that su's guilty of imitating others as well.
With more women and woodwinds being added to su's band, seems like they're copying JSU and other SWAC bands.
Just my opinion.
 
JayRob said:
su hasn't remained the same. You said it yourself that they're adding more women and more woodwind instruments. Why isn't that not mentioned? Who are they imitating?

My point is that directors learn and take from each other.
Hell, su's marching style is the same style I witnessed when I was at Michigan State. It blew my mind when I saw them whiteboys marching like some SWAC bands, and doing the backbend. I thought they had stolen from su, but turns out, it was the other way around.

So let's not make it seem that su's is the end all to everything. People need to admit that su's guilty of imitating others as well.
With more women and woodwinds being added to su's band, seems like they're copying JSU and other SWAC bands.
Just my opinion.
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:topic: SU was forced to admit females, and most females play woodwind instruments. Thats part of the reason for the 48 in '89. Dr. Spikes proposed to cut band scholarships in half if the band (Doc) continued to exclude half of the population of the school.

No imitation - Politics as usual!

Now as far as FAMU being the most balanced band I say sometimes, but BCC gives them all they can handle as far as competition. I like BCC more than FAMU, to me they are more balanced most of the time and they actually can play with a little power!
 
juggarnaut91 said:
:topic: SU was forced to admit females, and most females play woodwind instruments. Thats part of the reason for the 48 in '89. Dr. Spikes proposed to cut band scholarships in half if the band (Doc) continued to exclude half of the population of the school.

No imitation - Politics as usual!
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jugg, thanks for that bit of info. Whether that's the case or not, I can't verify. Nevertheless, how can a band be balanced in the first place without those vital instruments?

Brass is all I hear when I hear su, and maybe some percussions in the background. But that's just su's style and there's nothing wrong with that, but that style still doesn't equate to balance.

:topic:
Now they need to get this light skinned/dark-skinned thing taken care of with the "dancin' dolls".:winkgrin:
 
JayRob said:
su hasn't remained the same. You said it yourself that they're adding more women and more woodwind instruments. Why isn't that not mentioned? Who are they imitating?

My point is that directors learn and take from each other.
Hell, su's marching style is the same style I witnessed when I was at Michigan State. It blew my mind when I saw them whiteboys marching like some SWAC bands, and doing the backbend. I thought they had stolen from su, but turns out, it was the other way around.

So let's not make it seem that su's is the end all to everything. People need to admit that su's guilty of imitating others as well.
With more women and woodwinds being added to su's band, seems like they're copying JSU and other SWAC bands.
Just my opinion.
Click to expand...


Dude go talk to Dowell Taylor himself........I got his number if you need it. LOL.

It aint no secret that bands developed bigger brass sections in the SWAC to deal with SU. If they didn't why don't folks look like they did when I was in the band in the 80s. You could see evolving every year I was at SU.

The girl thing was because Doc had no choice. Guess what? Most girls play woodwind instruments. So naturally our woodwind total would increase. Hell it didn't take much to do that anyway. LOL. Aint like the Jukebox is marching 40 Saxs, 30 Clarinets, 20 Pics or something.

BTW, the only thing I said changed was some of the way we marched. Some of the little things got lost along the way. Nothing totally major changed with SU's style except for the females being in the band. I didn't march with any during my time at SU. That came a couple years after me.
 
JayRob said:
jugg, thanks for that bit of info. Whether that's the case or not, I can't verify. Nevertheless, how can a band be balanced in the first place without those vital instruments?

Brass is all I hear when I hear su, and maybe some percussions in the background. But that's just su's style and there's nothing wrong with that, but that style still doesn't equate to balance.

:topic:
Now they need to get this light skinned/dark-skinned thing taken care of with the "dancin' dolls".:winkgrin:
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Ohio State's marching band has 0 woodwinds........and Michigan State only uses saxes and brass....
 
Ey JayDog

You might do better if you started a thread titled; "One'of The Most Recognizable names because of the achievements of the 80's & early 90's Sonic Boom Band". Then post that clip JSU Tiger posted.

There :)

LOL

"Snake"
 
JayRob said:
jugg, thanks for that bit of info. Whether that's the case or not, I can't verify. Nevertheless, how can a band be balanced in the first place without those vital instruments?

Brass is all I hear when I hear su, and maybe some percussions in the background. But that's just su's style and there's nothing wrong with that, but that style still doesn't equate to balance.
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JayRob...so, by this logic, you're telling me and everyone else that ensembles like DCI groups are not balanced. Am I correct?

From what I hear from DCI groups...woodwinds couldn't be as "vital" as you'd like to make them with all that balance they display.


Woodwinds DO NOT equal balance. Arrangments, and having the players to play the parts correctly do.


:)
 
O'Bladerunner said:
JayRob...so, by this logic, you're telling me and everyone else that ensembles like DCI groups are not balanced. Am I correct?

From what I hear from DCI groups...woodwinds couldn't be as "vital" as you'd like to make them with all that balance they display.


Woodwinds DO NOT equal balance. Arrangments, and having the players to play the parts correctly do.


:)
Click to expand...

DCI bands are strictly brass and percussion
 



JayRob said:
That may be with a couple of horns or trumpets, but you still haven't provided any evidence that Liddell is copying su.

One or two brass instruments here and there doesn't constitute or equate to imitating su.
Click to expand...

I said nothing about Liddell. I don't know the man. I cannot figure out whether he is trying to take the sound of the Boom in any particular direction at all.

I did make reference to the arranging and to the instrumentation. Those decisions do belong to Dr. Liddell. If what JR says is accurate, it actually goes back to Taylor - another man I don't know. I would conclude then, from what I have been able to hear and observe, that Dr. Liddell has not done enough to take JSU back toward the big band sound.

As it stands, almost all directors of bands seem to recruit players and numbers that go toward their personal strengths. Houghton recruited fabulous woodwind players but he also got many great brass players because of SIVAD and Johnny Anthony. With SIVAD's arranging influence, the signature that he had established was preserved under Houghton's leadership. Result: Balance was easily achieved. Taylor recruited more brass players and changed the arranging for such. Result: A harder, brassier Boom. Liddell recruits more woodwind players but has not reeled in the brasses from the Taylor trend. The trend of the arranging is still that of the Taylor regime, so the sound is really weird because it seems to want to be brassy but retains such a plethora of woodwinds. My analysis: the Boom has lost its identity.

This is not an accusation; merely an observation.
 
O'Bladerunner said:
What part(s) of "CYFI" can't you hear?


:)
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Let me put it this way...

Besides beats 1 & 2 of the fourth measure of the verse, do the woodwinds play at all? That is the only place that I think I can hear them.

Are the woodwind parts elsewhere doubled in the brass? If so, that would easily explained why they are not distinguishable.
 
dacontinent said:
I said nothing about Liddell. I don't know the man. I cannot figure out whether he is trying to take the sound of the Boom in any particular direction at all.

I did make reference to the arranging and to the instrumentation. Those decisions do belong to Dr. Liddell. If what JR says is accurate, it actually goes back to Taylor - another man I don't know. I would conclude then, from what I have been able to hear and observe, that Dr. Liddell has not done enough to take JSU back toward the big band sound.

As it stands, almost all directors of bands seem to recruit players and numbers that go toward their personal strengths. Houghton recruited fabulous woodwind players but he also got many great brass players because of SIVAD and Johnny Anthony. With SIVAD's arranging influence, the signature that he had established was preserved under Houghton's leadership. Result: Balance was easily achieved. Taylor recruited more brass players and changed the arranging for such. Result: A harder, brassier Boom. Liddell recruits more woodwind players but has not reeled in the brasses from the Taylor trend. The trend of the arranging is still that of the Taylor regime, so the sound is really weird because it seems to want to be brassy but retains such a plethora of woodwinds. My analysis: the Boom has lost its identity.

This is not an accusation; merely an observation.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with the part about the Big Band sound not being as prevalent as it used to be, but still that identity is there.

The BOOM used to be more percussion oriented, now it's become more balanced with the sax's, woodwinds and horns.

su's sound still seems to be more treble oriented whereas JSU's sound is more bass oriented. Those two separate identities will perhaps never change at either school and don't need to.

But just imagine if BOTH schools played together, with each school emphasizing it's strengths, JSU with the bass sound and su with the treble sound, with the directors tweaking the sound just right where one is not overpowering the other.

Wouldn't that be a thing of beauty to behold?
 
O'Bladerunner said:
...Woodwinds DO NOT equal balance. Arrangments, and having the players to play the parts correctly do.
:)
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I wholeheartedly agree. DCI and Ohio State work fine because they are all brass and the parts that would conventionally be given to woodwinds are actually given to brass. Michigan State tweaks it a little with their saxes giving more volume than clarinets and piccolo trumpets being used instead of piccolos.

SU generally runs about 32-36 woodwinds at 1:3 or 1:4 ratio with their brass. The woodwinds would be very hard pressed to speak anywhere that the brass is playing.

The Jags are great. They are fun, exciting, and unique.

I am just an advocate of them remaining unique.
 
I didn't bother reading all those posts, so I'll simply respond to the initial post....

In my opinion, this past year's Boom sounded more 'unlike' the Boom, than in previous years... The last few Booms have gotten brassier and brassier, with the increasing numbers, especially in the baritone and mellophone sections. I thought the baritones simply overpowered the band at times last year.

Yeah, they were blowing and yeah, the Boom sounded good, but they weren't what they usually are..

As far as balance goes, that's a relative term. And it's relative to every band and to every tune they play. Some tunes are meant to be more top/bottom heavy, while others are arranged to be smoother..

And example, when the Boom first started playing Golden Time Of Day (years ago), it was beautiful.. They grooved it. Secret Garden was the same way. Just beautiful. But as the instrumentation changed, and we got more baritones and mellophones (and 1st trumpets hanging over), the sound changed.... Ain't no way the mellophone line in the Secret Garden intro needs to played an octave up. That sucked to me. And the intro to GTOD is just too harsh, everybody's trying to outblow the baritones, and they're (the btones) are trying to outblow the rest of the band. That's not music, that's fighting amongst the sections...

But anyway......


If you wanna a hear a balanced Sonic Boom, get ANY clips from '90 (Motown, TennState, Valley, Southern, TexSouthern, Alcorn, etc). No section overpowers the band. You hear eveybody. Cleanly.. (despite us being trombone heavy that year).

Somebody post that Motown intro please....... Not THAT'S balance!!!

:tup::tup:
 
You?ll JSU Alumni are weak, if you?ll protest and write letters to your President like you'll did when James Bell was Head football coach instead of posting comments on internet, Liddell probably would be history,
 
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