Ten Commandments: Alabama Ground Zero Yet Again.


Bartram

Bartram

Brand HBCUbian
What is it with Alabama that we always have to be in the middle of the most emotional issues? First the Civil War, the Civil Rights Movement now it looks like Alabama is center of the religious revolution with the growing flap over the Ten Commandments.

At least there's no way nobody can blast Alabama and paint the people of Alabama as villians for standing up for the Ten Commandments,,,,,, right? :confused: How can you be morally wrong for doing that?

There was an interesting question on this issue though. Should Judge Roy Moore, continuing to defy a direct court order to remove the 2 ton Ten Commandment monument, go to jail as a result?

The answer, to me, is very simple. Yes. MLK stood up for a moral cause, right? He went straight to jail many times. Why should it be any different for Judge Roy Moore? If he wants to take a moral stand, he should be prepaired to go to jail, etc just like countless others who have stood up for moral causes and gone to jail for them. Besides, they wouldn't REALLY put him in serious jail anyway because most officials in Montgomery sympathize with his views, unlike those who imprisoned King et al. What do you think?

Do you feel the Ten Commandments have a place in the Alabama Supreme Court building (or any state or DC if there happens to be a judge like this in another state/DC able to do so), Judge Moore is doing the right thing and the monument should be allowed to stay?
 
Originally posted by Bartram

Do you feel the Ten Commandments have a place in the Alabama Supreme Court building (or any state or DC if there happens to be a judge like this in another state/DC able to do so), Judge Moore is doing the right thing and the monument should be allowed to stay?
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NO!

Roy Moore is a religious zealot, and as a so-called representative of the law, he should be well aware of the separation of church and state! He knows that he can use that monument (and his radical convictions,) to appeal to the "holy morons" in this state. I have been in the church all my life, and have been raised on the Ten Commandments, however, I do know that this monument has no place in a hall of justice.

If he refuses to remove them from the statehouse, he deserves to be found in contempt, and promptly dismissed from the state supreme court....simple as that!
 

Re: Re: Ten Commandments: Alabama Ground Zero Yet Again.

Originally posted by AAMU Alum
NO!

Roy Moore is a religious zealot, and as a so-called representative of the law, he should be well aware of the separation of church and state! He knows that he can use that monument (and his radical convictions,) to appeal to the "holy morons" in this state. I have been in the church all my life, and have been raised on the Ten Commandments, however, I do know that this monument has no place in a hall of justice.

If he refuses to remove them from the statehouse, he deserves to be found in contempt, and promptly dismissed from the state supreme court....simple as that!
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You are aware of the mass march on Montgomery in support of Judge Moore and him standing his ground aren't you?

I can't find much fault with their base argument, but the Ten Commandments statue in the supreme court building is CLEARLY a classic political ploy by Moore not unlike George Wallace's infamous "stand in the schoolhouse door" to prevent integration of the university of alabama.

Wallace knew EXACTLY which buttons to push to get votes in Alabama at that time. So does this guy Moore and he (as well as every politician in Alabama are students of tactics perfected by George Wallace. In Alabama it's all about touching the emotional nerve of your constituency. This is true be you democrat or republican by the way.).

Now, generally speaking, everybody in Alabama (you, me, most liberals native to Alabama, etc) knows that the Ten Commandments is the best baseline for morals and doing the right thing in life. We all know that. We have no problem with that. Virtually all black liberals in Alabama, I would contend, are devote church goers. Where we run into a problem is the actions of Moore in this whole thing are basically piling on. There's no need for the guy to shove this down everybody's throat in a state venue. We don't need expressions of any one particular religion when everybody in the state pretty much agrees that religion is the moral compass of society. It's clearly an "in your face" move. I would have to concure, there's no need for this. It's simply a classic Alabama situation of a politician taking advantage of an emotional issue for political gain.

Log this. If you think Roy Moore won't be running for governor of Alabama within the next 8 years, I got some prime ocean front property in Tuskegee I'll sell you. :look:

And by the way, i'm here in Alabama for a few days. I concede defeat to Smiley. The tax plan is DOA. Hank Sanders et al black (err dem/lib) politicians are FOR the tax plan. That automatically spells doom for the plan, which was evident to me riding around in south Alabama seeing all the "vote NO" signs in the yards. This also sets up nicely for Judge Moore. The reps are going to run Riley out on a rail and push Moore to run for governor after supporting Riley and then him proposing the largest tax increase in the history of the state. Watch.
 
Moore

Roy Moore is no different than the 1960 - 1974 political period of George Wallace's life. Like Wallace, Yancey and others, Moore is a true demagogue. He's a populist that has created a cause . He will continue to milk this cause. There's always excitement in Ala politics.

Bart: Good political accessment. I totally agree.
 
I agree 100% with your analogy of Riley, and his gubernatorial aspirations. Many people said much the same thing before he ran for the state supreme court. I am also aware of the mass rally that has been planned in support for Riley, and that monument. As has been said, Moore knew he was wrong, that's why he had the monument brought in and installed in the dead of night...long after there was any activity at the statehouse.

He knows the right buttons to push with the far right wing in this state. Religion and christianity plays the same role for him as segregation and "Jim Crow" played for George Wallace. Conservatives here in Alabama have been hit with a "rude awakening," that has struck them like a baseball bat. Riley had "duped" them with his tax plan. The very ones who did whatever they did to get him in the capitol, are now the same ones who want to drive him out like the villagers drove Frankenstein from the castle.

Like his fellow repub, he promised NO NEW TAXES. Well.....


In conclusion, let me say this. A Roy Moore governorship will turn the clock back in this state 70 years!!!
 
2 things, first of all Roy Moore thinks he is above the law. Since I am a tax payer - and it is the taxpayers property, I guess I can go and put me a monunent in there also. He knew he was wrong when he put it in at 4 in the morning when no one was around. It is a shame that we dont even know what kind of 'justice' he is and how he really rules on law because he has rode this selfish motive into office. I think Judge Thompson should fine Moore $5000 a day and hold him in comtempt rather than fining the state - the state did not put this in.

People here are always talking about prayer in school etc - well first of all you can pray in school, just not school led prayer. And if these same people pray with their families before their kids leave for school, then they dont need to pray in school - take care of it as a family at ya own house.

The 2nd thing - we do need the tax plan and we (african-americans) in the state actually have the most to gain and the less to lose if it passes. But for those of you who dont support it - when it fails please dont cry when the legislature goes back into session and make a whole lot of tax increases that you really dont want - those that dont need voter approval. We have pulled money from other areas for so long that we are dried up - there aint no mo'.
 
This lunatic in a judge's robe has all but announced that he will defy the court order forcing him to remove the monument. Regarding Judge Myron Thompson's court order, "Mullah" Moore stated on Thursday that he had "no intention of obeying an order" from the U.S. district judge.

Back to the subject of the morons who stand by him, Rick Scarborough, president of some group called Vision America (aka right-wing religious nuts) said "It's so rare to find someone who would make a stand." A stand? At what....deliberately breaking the law?

This could set a very dangerous precedent for this state...and the entire nation, if indeed he is not removed from the state's highest plain of justice.

According to an editorial in today's Hsv Times, this kook says that if he is forced to remove the monument, he would resign as cheif justice. I hope to soon see his bags packed, and his foolish face out of Montgomery!
 
Originally posted by AAMU Alum
In conclusion, let me say this. A Roy Moore governorship will turn the clock back in this state 70 years!!!
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That's why, in Alabama, he'll be a shoe-in. :shame: Conservatism I don't mind, but stupid idiots like that moron Guy Hunt :rolleyes: (can you imagine a black being governor with less than 3 doctorial degrees, 2 ms degrees, military service and a purple heart and having graduated from Hoover high school? but yet this high school grad max became governor of the state? :shame: That's not right. At least Fob James and Wallace went to college.)

Maybe if he prevails in this TC flap Bush will appoint him to the Supreme Court or some federal court in Atlanta and spare Alabama yet another "revolution" at the expense of economic development, population growth and just getting on with life along with the other southern states. :idea:
 
1st Amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Where does it say that our courts can't display the Ten Commandments? It doesn't. In fact, it specifically states that free exercise of any religion will not be interfered with. The judge paid for this monument with his own money, and it shouldn't be removed.

"Shaped like a cube, the four-foot-tall monument also cites references to God in the Declaration of Independence, the Pledge of Allegiance and the oath of office in the Judiciary Act of 1789."

Should we remove all of these phrases referring to God in our founding documents? The answer is NO. This country was founded on firm Christian beliefs, and the respect of anyone practicing other religions. I agree with the person that said religion should be taught in the home, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to take it outside the home. This is just another step in the liberal plan to wipe out Christianity in the United States. And people can't seem to figure out why our nation is going to hell in a hand basket. Very sad.
 
Originally posted by twskls
1st Amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Where does it say that our courts can't display the Ten Commandments? It doesn't. In fact, it specifically states that free exercise of any religion will not be interfered with. The judge paid for this monument with his own money, and it shouldn't be removed.

"Shaped like a cube, the four-foot-tall monument also cites references to God in the Declaration of Independence, the Pledge of Allegiance and the oath of office in the Judiciary Act of 1789."

Should we remove all of these phrases referring to God in our founding documents? The answer is NO. This country was founded on firm Christian beliefs, and the respect of anyone practicing other religions. I agree with the person that said religion should be taught in the home, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to take it outside the home. This is just another step in the liberal plan to wipe out Christianity in the United States. And people can't seem to figure out why our nation is going to hell in a hand basket. Very sad.
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This is all true. I think I acknowledged most of this. My point is it is uncalled for. Why does he feel he "HAS" to do this when everybody pretty much agrees to the intention of the constitution? You see, it is these little suttleties like this where opportunistic politicians exploit a situation for political gain, which is the case with judge Roy Moore.

Another reason I disagree with Moore stirring up this type situation is because it does nothing to, for example, improve education in Alabama, enhance economic development, increase population growth or actually improving the criminal justice system in the state of Alabama.

Lets take the actual physical act of placing the Ten Commandments in the supreme court building. What does that do? What,,,, so all criminals in Alabama are going to file through on their way to trial, see the TC and have this great epiphony and stop committing crimes? No I know,,, because Alabama/Moore takes this "courageous stand" God is going to look down on the state of Alabama and give everybody in the state extra points for the final test come judgement day? I thought we would all be judged on our own actions, deeds, beliefs, not because the state we live in is so holier than thou.

The physical act of having this monument there serves no tangible purpose and is strictly a battle of ideology and a tool to appeal to voters who, in Alabama, only relate to a few concepts: the rebel flag, prayer in school, the Ten Commandments being the top 3-5 things, and race of coarse.

As I say though, this is such a no-brainer in Alabama! It's like running a political campaign and vowing to increase funding for Alabama and Auburn football or promising to decrease fishing and hunting regulations! YOU THINK THAT'S NOT GONNA BE POPULAR AND WIN VOTES?! And if anybody attacks any one of those issues, Alabamians become very emotional, circle the wagons more fiercely than Texans and fight to the death,,, just like certain factions did on slavery, jim crow and civil rights! Moore knew this would be the case with the TC issue and he's building himself into another Alabama political legend.

And here's the beauty of this whole TC thing; there's no real tuff decisions to make, it only enhances his political career, unlike the idiots in the 60s he's not exactly defying federal law in a hostile manner (although defying a judge's ruling is unlawfull.) and alienating himself and the state(i'd even concede that standing up for the TC does not/should not give Alabama a further "bad image" as did the antics of the 60s), and the state picks up the tab for his legal challenges. He has nothing to lose in all this and everything to gain. Meanwhile, however, Alabama is fixated on splitting hairs over the TC, prayer in school and the rebel flag while most other southern states are moving on with life!

How about this; should the next justice be able to remove the TC if he wants to???? See, if Moore wouldn't have put it in there in the first place, we wouldn't have to go through something like that.

PS:
No, we should not remove all the things that were incorporated into our system WHEN THE COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED. The TC was plunked down in the Supreme Court Building less than 4 years ago when it didn't really need to be. It was put there as part of a political ploy, a promise he made to voters.
 
Originally posted by Bartram

Another reason I disagree with Moore stirring up this type situation is because it does nothing to, for example, improve education in Alabama, enhance economic development, increase population growth or actually improving the criminal justice system in the state of Alabama.

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:tup:

The sad thing is that many of these backwater christians don't care about the improvement of education in this state, or an improved economy. Their ignorance of the law (or simple defiance of it) is proof of that. I read where all of these other zealots from all over the country came to Montgomery to support "Mullah" Moore.

There was even some crazy woman from California that was quoted in the Hsv Times article. My immediate thought was that she certainly had enough problems in her OWN state, that she didn't have time to fly all the way acroos the country to support a tyrannical judge!


"Mullah" is a politically dangerous person! He feeds off of the people who walk in lockstep with him, because they are too stupid to know better. He knows he's wrong, and yet he continues his charade. We have had enough of these kinds of elected officials in the south, and in Alabama in particular. I would not continue to banter back and forth with this lunatic........HE NEEDS TO BE ARRESTED, AND TAKEN TO JAIL, AND THAT MONUMENT NEEDS TO BE EITHER REMOVED OR DESTROYED!
 
Originally posted by AAMU Alum
I think this story from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution best describes "Mullah" Moore, and all those who are fool enough to follow him:

http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/0803/19special_teepen.html
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:whine: ok, ok,,,, now you got me on this one. i agree, in principle, with the centiment here,,, but i can't say i'm the biggest AJC/Editorial fan, and the head line is a bit much,, but a great "standard" headline any time they lampoon Alabama. they seem to be very biased in their editorials. they NEVER run any editorials on positive issues and progress in Birmingham,,,,, uuuh, i mean, Alabama, while at the same time they never miss an opportunity to pile on Alabama/Birmingham anytime there's a negative story (although I don't consider this story negative morally, i mean, it's basically a harmless issue,, nobody's getting beat to sleep or blasted with high-pressure fire hoses or eaten alive by german shepards or anything like that.). While this guy is blasting Alabama for "not being a part of the U.S.", what about the governor in Georgia and the clowns who want to keep reminding the world that Georgia and the South "is not a part of the U.S."? :confused: i mean,,, can I get some "O'Riley Factor fair and balanced" in dis mug please?? :confused: good grief.
 
There are alot of folks in Alabama who don't care for the AJC...or the city of Atlanta for that matter...particularly some folks in Birmingham and Montgomery. But I think the point the writer is making, is that somehow some right-wing zealot here in Alabama has once again brought attention to this state, and it's not in a positive manner.

The point he was making about Alabama and "being part of the U.S.," is that there is always some kook that hasn't gotten over the Civil War, and somehow wants to fight it all over again. I have to agree with him. I think "Mullah" Moore falls into that category. As I've stated before, I have been in the church all my life, and there is no question of my belief in God. However, the law is just that....THE LAW, and "Mullah" is a mockery of the justice system. It reminds of something that Bill Clinton said when he spoke at Maynard Jackson's funeral services when he mentioned something to the effect of those who want to take their religion and "beat you over the head with it to prove their point," or some words to that effect. Bottom line, he was talking about Moore, and other zealots like him who somehow feel they are above the law.

The arguement that he and his supporters make that "the constitution says nothing about the Ten Commandments," is another attempt to circumvent the U.S. Constitution, and its position on the separation of church and state.

Some are playing dumb. Many of them actually are!
 
And by the way, i'm here in Alabama for a few days. I concede defeat to Smiley. The tax plan is DOA.
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I will probably vote for the tax plan because in my heart I think its the right thing to do. But if you look at the hours spent attempting to locate the facts and adding the time in calculating how much money its going to cost us I understand why it's DOA.
Riley and his boys defeated the plan by themselves. Riley's Plan presentation was different depending on the audience. I guess I will be taking vacation sometime in late Sept or early Oct because Richardson is going to close schools. I could go on but that's enough.

Next, we have this nut that is embarrasing anyone desiring to claim Alabama. This Holy Judge sworn to up hold the law....defying the law because he is developing a political path to the Governors' mansion. Please tell me this is the forties or sometime way back when.....

Will anything good come out of this mess?
 

Originally posted by Smiley
I will probably vote for the tax plan because in my heart I think its the right thing to do. But if you look at the hours spent attempting to locate the facts and adding the time in calculating how much money its going to cost us I understand why it's DOA.
Riley and his boys defeated the plan by themselves. Riley's Plan presentation was different depending on the audience. I guess I will be taking vacation sometime in late Sept or early Oct because Richardson is going to close schools. I could go on but that's enough.

Next, we have this nut that is embarrasing anyone desiring to claim Alabama. This Holy Judge sworn to up hold the law....defying the law because he is developing a political path to the Governors' mansion. Please tell me this is the forties or sometime way back when.....

Will anything good come out of this mess?
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Already voted abscentee FOR amendment one.

I don't care about Riley pitching it differently, etc. Just all a part of politics as I see it. As far as Richardson closing schools, this is why this was a no-brainer in the first place for me. Ultimately this is "comprehensive tax/education reform" (or at least the best approximation in Alabama) that North Carolina et al underwent in the 70s. If we maintain the status quo, then schools will have to be closed. I see no other alternative if that's the way the state votes.

As far as embarrassing,,,, well, it could be worse. we could have mobs of klansmen/skinheads/angry citizens waving rebel flags and causing trouble over a racial issue. Bible thumpers protecting a TC monument is better than that if I had my rathers. at least dey ain't harming nobody.
 
Originally posted by Bartram

As far as embarrassing,,,, well, it could be worse. we could have mobs of klansmen/skinheads/angry citizens waving rebel flags and causing trouble over a racial issue. Bible thumpers protecting a TC monument is better than that if I had my rathers. at least dey ain't harming nobody.
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Yet!

Lest not forget, the klan, skinheads, and other angry white morons have based their foundation on "christianity" as well. You need to look "outside" the box!
 
Originally posted by AAMU Alum
Yet!

Lest not forget, the klan, skinheads, and other angry white morons have based their foundation on "christianity" as well. You need to look "outside" the box!
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That's another thing; although I saw, what, one black lady in all the coverage I have seen (and Keys) it's a "racially diverse crowd" (yes i know 2 blacks, let's estimate 100 blacks out of 10-15K,, ain't exactly diverse) so it's not attractive to the klan,, i don't think. :confused:

Very peculiar how blacks are virtually not a part of this hole thing ain't it? I mean,, wit all dem n-word churches and snottin' & blowin' preachers in Montgomery, you mean to tell me they ain't down with the Ten Commandments? :lmao:
 
Originally posted by Bartram

Very peculiar how blacks are virtually not a part of this hole thing ain't it? I mean,, wit all dem n-word churches and snottin' & blowin' preachers in Montgomery, you mean to tell me they ain't down with the Ten Commandments? :lmao:
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Don't measure the faith of our people on whether or not they are out there rallying in support of a religious zealot! Perhaps they are not there because they realize that Mullah is WRONG!

I will say once again, if Moore does not remove that monument, he should be found in contempt, jailed and moved from the state supreme court!

His antics have become simply too ridiculous to stomach! :mad:
 
Originally posted by AAMU Alum
Don't measure the faith of our people on whether or not they are out there rallying in support of a religious zealot! Perhaps they are not there because they realize that Mullah is WRONG!

I will say once again, if Moore does not remove that monument, he should be found in contempt, jailed and moved from the state supreme court!

His antics have become simply too ridiculous to stomach! :mad:
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No, I think it all boils down to what everything in Alabama boils down to; race more than anything. You can't tell me that the preachers in our churches the past sundays aren't indirectly referring to this situation as how far a-stray we have gone as a society, but they stop short of piling into Montgomery in support of a religious matter, whereas the white folk are coming out of the wood work. Roy is conservative too, so that is a factor.

It is another CLASSIC Alabama situation I will admit, but I would much prefer this to racial conflict were people are getting hurt/killed. And again, you know all this is simply his gubernatorial campaign; you know that right? I'm telling you just as sure as i'm sitting here typing, Moore will run for Governor and win easily, especially if he loses his judgeship and/or is fined, jailed, etc.
 
Originally posted by Bartram
No, I think it all boils down to what everything in Alabama boils down to; race more than anything. You can't tell me that the preachers in our churches the past sundays aren't indirectly referring to this situation as how far a-stray we have gone as a society, but they stop short of piling into Montgomery in support of a religious matter, whereas the white folk are coming out of the wood work. Roy is conservative too, so that is a factor.

It is another CLASSIC Alabama situation I will admit, but I would much prefer this to racial conflict were people are getting hurt/killed. And again, you know all this is simply his gubernatorial campaign; you know that right? I'm telling you just as sure as i'm sitting here typing, Moore will run for Governor and win easily, especially if he loses his judgeship and/or is fined, jailed, etc.
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Bart,

I really don't see race as in issue in this circus. This whole episode is about a man who is a religious demagogue, who knows that he can lead the "weak minded" of this state along, just like the Pied Piper of Hamelin. (Remember the Rev. Jim Jones and Guyana?) He is using his religious stance as a platform to bigger things, which you mentioned, and I do agree with. I would really like to believe that you don't see alot of our people out there ranting with him and his minions, because regardless of the strength of their faith, THEY KNOW THAT HE IS BREAKING THE LAW!

That story in the AJC really brought things home. What the writer was trying to get across is that the rest of this nation knows that the U. S. Constitution clearly defines the separation of church and state. Contrary to what some of these cornpones think, Alabama is STILL part of the U. S. The hypocrisy of Mullah's actions, is that he is blatantly defying the law that he was elected to uphold, and espousing christian virtues along the way.

You don't change laws by breaking them, you follow the proper steps to have them changed. This case is really cut and dried if you ask me. The man is WRONG, and I have NO RESPECT for a man who poses as a representative of justice, and so vehemently defies the laws of the land!
 
There have been some great points made on this topic in here - even by the AAMU peeps :D (just kiddin' u know a Bama State man had to shoot a lil sum' sum at cha).

I had a white Roy Moore supporter get :redhot: at me today. I asked him what church he went to, he told me - and I have been in that church serveral times. I then asked him why is he not beating down his minister to hang the 10 Commandments in their church? As many churches as I have been in - I have yet to see any references to the 10. My point being if they are not in religious settings, why do they have to be in a courtroom? He had no answer.

I had to get him again - I asked if he was a "prayer" in school supporter. Of course he is...I asked if he were to pray with his child(ren) before they left for school - and it was done as a family - and you came before God in the proper manner - wouldnt that be just as good or even better than having them pray at school? And o by the way they can pray at school - it just cant be administrator/teacher led.....Again no answer......I left him alone then because a bruh didnt wanna get cut :cool:
 
Originally posted by AAMU Alum
Bart,

I really don't see race as in issue in this circus. This whole episode is about a man who is a religious demagogue, who knows that he can lead the "weak minded" of this state along, just like the Pied Piper of Hamelin. (Remember the Rev. Jim Jones and Guyana?) He is using his religious stance as a platform to bigger things, which you mentioned, and I do agree with. I would really like to believe that you don't see alot of our people out there ranting with him and his minions, because regardless of the strength of their faith, THEY KNOW THAT HE IS BREAKING THE LAW!

That story in the AJC really brought things home. What the writer was trying to get across is that the rest of this nation knows that the U. S. Constitution clearly defines the separation of church and state. Contrary to what some of these cornpones think, Alabama is STILL part of the U. S. The hypocrisy of Mullah's actions, is that he is blatantly defying the law that he was elected to uphold, and espousing christian virtues along the way.

You don't change laws by breaking them, you follow the proper steps to have them changed. This case is really cut and dried if you ask me. The man is WRONG, and I have NO RESPECT for a man who poses as a representative of justice, and so vehemently defies the laws of the land!
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I think it is race, politics and generally the nature of black folk. We ain't gonna do nothing or stand up for nothing unless it directly affects us and is an emminent threat. Politics also. We all know that most blacks in Alabama are dems and Roy Moore is, thus, a foe. His doctrines are more in line with the radical elements of the old white KKK "christian", white citizen's councils (by mistake or on purpose I don't know),, blah, blah. This is why black religious elements are silent on this one. (although just looking at FoxNews,,,, there was a shot of a bunch of TC supporters and there were a significant number of young blacks. I believe they are basically "out-of-state agitators" as the old hardliners used to say back in the 60s. I could be wrong.)
 
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