Televangelists: Fakes or Real?


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My .02

I have a hard time trusting these guys constantly begging for money on TV. .especially if his name sounds like money :rolleyes:

Just like Nasty and Robber, I don't go to church to learn about finances. I'll call Merrill Lynch for that. Just because the church receives millions on a yearly basis, does not mean the pastor has to live like Hugh Hefner. I think it is great that some of these churchs are helping to revitalize some of the more run down area's of the community. Sadly, many of the members or faithful followers of these church's are losing the shirts on their backs turning all of their money over to these churchs. I personally know of a young lady who constantly gave her money to a local tv preacher. She thought that in her time of need, this "church" would take care of her. WELL when she was in need financially, they turned their back on her. I tried telling her on many occasions, "Heaven is Free". Faith is what will get you in, not Ben Franklin.
 
Nastynupe, I was actually reciting a specific minister's characteristics when I gave the scenario. I digress with you.


CAT DADDY: That is why I am glad that my faith is NOT in man.
 

They must go to churches that don't do anything for the community

Originally posted by Ms. Jag4Jag
Nastynupe, I was actually reciting a specific minister's characteristics when I gave the scenario. I digress with you.


CAT DADDY: That is why I am glad that my faith is NOT in man.
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I'll say it. Windsor Village UMC has done all that. The Potter's House does most of that.

My church has about 600 members and we donated about 10 percent of our annual budget in cash directly to flood victims and much more in goods. That is not counting what what was already being done monthly.
 
It's e-z for me to criticize for I'm only human...

I thought the <b>Pot</b>ters' house was only worried about Woman lest thou be loosed or Manpower 200X, or stuff like that...

If they've had an impact in the Dallas area, it's not publicized @ all.

I lived around the bend from Rod Parsley's fligga-ma-jig in Columbus and saw the church when it was still an enfant. The type of growth that it's experienced is tremendous. The type of PHYSICAL growth that it's experienced is tremendous also. Too bad the poor cannot see it or use it due to it being in an affluent suburb of Columbus. :(

The <b>Pot</b>ters house? I'm not sure. I think it's located on loop 12 somewhere (from what I hear). But, if it contains the same faction of fake peeps of whom ONE I KNOW IS MORE OF A DEVIL THAN I, well.....

Jag4Life, did you all have to dial 911 to resuccitate(sp.) the pastor after informing him that 10% of the church's intake would be used for something good? :emlaugh:
 
my mother and i were just talking about this. i attend a church with about 3 or 4 hundred members. my mother is the church sec. my pastor is like my uncle so i am not really on the outside looking in. and we were talking about how church is a buisness and not a temple of learning and faith. there was a woman who is the financial sec. she wants 400+ a week to retrieve messages and change a board. this ish is horrible. it is true that a church runs off money, but the services for the Lord should come from the heart and not be dictated by the amount of money one is being paid. my mother helps clean the church, get the supplies and etc. out of the kindness of her heart. the pastor insisted on a donation for her. he himself doesn't get but 500 a week. how does he survive..... "full time job." if we were poor we would have church by a rock, but we would recieve the Word. when the root of all evil runs the church instead of the spirt then there are SERIOUS problems. we are living in the last days!!!
 
Panthro,
Actually, he told us it would be used for that. Anyway, you just think the worst of my Pastor without even knowing who he is. Most of the money brought into our church that is not used for maintenance is used to help members and individuals in the community.

What church do you attend?
 
It's kind of funny...when I moved to Houston and told folks I was thinking about attending Brentwood, people told me stuff like "Why do you want to go to that church?" "Oh..you balling like that?" "You can't afford to go to that church" I attended Windsor Village. I liked that church. I must admit that Windsor has done and still is doing a lot for the community. But we're not talking about Windsor. We're talking about the FAKE JAKES out there.

Did any of you catch the Town Hall special Tavis hosted on CSPAN a few months back. They had the pastor from Windsor, TD Fakes, and a bunch of other panelists. Why did Rev. Sharpton continuously attack Kirbyjon Caldwell and TD Fakes??? Does he know something that some of you all don't know. <font size="3">Cuz I already know :)</font>


Originally posted by jag4life
Panthro,
Actually, he told us it would be used for that. Anyway, you just think the worst of my Pastor without even knowing who he is. Most of the money brought into our church that is not used for maintenance is used to help members and individuals in the community.

What church do you attend?
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My church also does A LOT.

God has blessed PLENTY of His leaders with RICHES through out the bible. Aint nothing changed.

You can't say that all you want to do is learn about God's Word and then say, "I don't want to hear about finances at Church." That's like saying "teach me about cars, but about motors." Don't you realize that God talks about more than just "Jesus die on a cross and Eeeeeeearly one Sunday morning" in His Word.

Don't tell me that read the Word on a regular basis and never come across finances, unless you've just started reading.

God has a lot of promises to His people in the Bible like:

1) suppling our needs according to HIS RICHES in glory
2) ask for it and believe, & you can have it
3) seek righteousness and and God will bless you


.....we hear all these promises and how God wants to provide ABUNDANT LIFE for His people and we wanna shout but as soon as it actually happens to people, especially preachers, somebody starts hatin or just plain gets jealous saying, "that preacher don't need all of that. He don't need 2 houses! he don't need 2 cars." Y'all know that if and when promises of God come true in y'alls life you aint rejecting none of it, even if it's not ALL necessary. That's why it's called a blessing.

Listen to preacher's WHOLE LIFE STORY. They put years of serious work to get to where they are now. When they broke, y'all were kool, now that they got money(20yrs later) y'all hatin.

If y'all had a couple of houses and cars and somebody said something about y'all, you would tell tehm, "STOP HATING!" and you'd be right so.............STOP HATIN ON PROSPEROUS PREACHERS THINKING THEY'RE FAKE! WHY WHY WHY are you holding on to the idea that preachers should not be rich.
God has enough blessing for everybody! Praise God!

Just curious(dare I ask) Panthro, Nupe, Robber, have any of you ever prayed to the Lord on this subject? What has He told you? Seriously.

,
nevaehinvesting
 
Re: Re: Robber, Nastynupe, and Pison

Originally posted by NASTYNUPE
Let's not play the "Let's just say" game. Name me one church that has done all of that. Name me one pastor that has done all of that. I can't think of one. I don't think this thread is addressed to all millionaire pastors...just the SNAKES!!!
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New Light Christian Center Church. However, that is factual, not meant as a negative toward any other church. The wonderful thing in obtaining spiritual growth is that wherever or however one chooses to worship, there is a church nearby to meet that need.
 
LOL ROTF

God said<b> :"Beware of the false prophets and being that I blessed you w/ the GIFT of common sense and logical sense, exercise it."</b> I've exercised this gift on many an occasion and this be one of those.

Preaching is an industry that one doesn't have to be called to do anymore. Just go to school, get a degree in divinity, and/or get that license and you're set. (I think) See? One doesn't even have to be called by God. You can call yourself and finance your education and look at the corporation you could establish.

I'm putting my psychology degree to work after the corp world (hopefully). Get the minds, the body and the $$$$$ will assuredly follow.:D
 
Originally posted by nevaehinvesting


Just curious(dare I ask) Panthro, Nupe, Robber, have any of you ever prayed to the Lord on this subject? What has He told you? Seriously.
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He told me to become a member of the church to which I belong. And I don't have these concerns in our church.
 
Do I see a light in here?

Jag4Life: Windsor, Brentwood, New Light Christian Center, Brook Hollow and many more! Am I right?


LMBH: I had Pastor Hilliard in mind when I was writing that and several others


I am happy to see BLACK MEN know the word and speak the word... It seems nobody had a problem with Swaggart, Falwell, or several others...


Whatever the case, I am proud of these men, they are serving a purpose...especially when men who are falling behind because of a lack of knowledge finally get that knowledge through the ministry... I am proud when one of our black men (preachers) who has made it...can reach back and encourage another brother who may be late on child support, broke, in the gutter, etc...

When women who have been cast out because of some past crime, past misdeed, past mistake.....but these BLACK MEN PREACHERS can allow God to use them to encourage that sister to know that the storm is over now....and that they can lift their heads out of their shame...

Hmph! I may not know these pastors that Pison mentioned above PERSONALLY, but I do know some people PERSONALLY who have been delivered from a sick situation or who has grown out of his/her own disgust... For that, I am praising God. And I'm not talking about the testimonies you hear on tv...I'm talking real life...


Pison/Panthro: You seem to be doing very well for yourself financially. You've traveled the world on your blessings. You're what I consider an upstanding brother in our community. I'm proud of what I know about you. Although, I can't say I KNOW you that personally... I know for what I have seen that you own...you aint broke! So with that in mind..... if you don't want these ministers to have much wealth, ...ummm why have you accumulated as much wealth, material items as you have?


Robber: You too. (I know we discussed all this yesterday... but let's keep it up... I like this dialogue with you guys)... I don't see you running to ditch your wealth either...

Self: I aint no where near rich, but I aint itching to give away what I have worked so hard for and acquired...I will help others to do the same or better than me....

I see those preachers as teachers....
 
Personally, I don't have a problem with televangelist, or with pastors that have large congregations that will afford them the right to purchase expensive cars, homes, jewelry, or other lavish gifts. If his congregation loves him, and they feel their spirtual hunger has been fed, who am I to complain, or judge, after all it is their choice.

The only problem I have with those kinds of representatives of the lord is; If I'm paying that person a love offering, will he visit me when I'm sick, or will he send a representative? Will he perform my marriage, or will one of his representatives? Will he recognize me, and actually remember my name when I speak to him, or will he patronize me? Will he Euologize (sp) me, or perform my funeral service, or will one of the representatives do it?

If I'm involved in a church, and paying a love offering to the pastor, then I fully expect him to be there for me in my time of need, or sorrow, if he's in town, or he's not sick.

I have to have a sense of belonging to a church, and not just being a member, or one of those "I'm a member of so, & so's church.", you know somebody that's there being on status time.

I have nothing against associate pastors, but I don't go to church to hear those guys preach, or do I give them my love offering.

NICE
 
J4J,

As I told you yesterday, I never trusted Swaggert, Falwell, Roberts and the rest of them cats. But I don't believe you knew me or any of these other guys here to know what we thought of them.

Do y'all remember when Oral Roberts got on TV and announced that if he didn't raise about $50M God was gonna "take him home?" I was like, God's gonna kill you if you don't raise that money? :rolleyes: But he raised it. It might not have been $50M, but it was a lot of money and obviously folk didn't want ole Oral to die. S _ _.

Jimmy Swagger spending folk's contributions on hoes.

So don't try to make this a black/white issue, because it ain't. I never called a name. I just don't like the type. No matter the color or gender.

And no, I'm not about to throw away what I worked for. Nobody (on this Earth) gave me a dime of what I have. I earned it. BIGGGGGG difference.
 
D-NICE, Robber, Panthro, Nastynupe and everybody... I'm with you.. the "type" of minister is not acceptable... but we don't "belong" to their churches or their communities...so do we know what that church does in it's community? I understand your points, and they are GREAT points.

As for having that specific minister perform your marriage, funeral or pray on your sick bed, I understand. I think that if you need the personal service of a specific minister, a much smaller church is the one for you. I've seen both sides, and who's to say what I'll feel tomorrow or a year from now...but personally, I don't need it. There is nothing wrong with having personal touch either. It feels more like family in much smaller venue.
 

You know they say there are two things that change people---
1. God, 2. Money. So, If you have God, will the money come? Or, is it easier to find God when you have money?

I'm a member of one of those small deep in the wood but United Methodist Church's. We have a big membership of maybe 35 people, but the church is full every 1st and 3rd Sundays (regl service Sundays) with people from visiting churches.

The pastor is paid a whopping $500 per month for his two services. The pastor lives 1 1/2 hours away, but regularly drives down by request, during an illness, death or Church activity. Many times they give him an extra $1-200 dollars depending on whats going on.

Now our church has regular tithers, we focus on a project (i.e. this year is a new roof) and use the money accordingly. We are not interested in having a large bank account. We put the money to use, now. Our bills are paid, the congregation is happy and the discord present in many churches is stopped before it gets started. In short, I love my church!!!

I view the televangelists like I do any other program. If he is saying something interesting, I'll listen, otherwise more channel surfing. As our pastor says, you save yourself. Paying a man money won't do that.

As to how do I want my pastor to live-- simply and honestly. If you are looking for your pastor to be a status symbol and beat the Joneses, perhaps you should evaluate your values and that churches values. If I am not mistaken, isn't it easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven? God didn't ordain no pimps.
 
There is a pattern developing here and its common in most churches. Women seem to support pastors without questions and men don't. The purpose of the church is not to teach about finance. The purpose of the local church is fellowship and you don't need a lot of money for this.

If this tithing concept that people follow is so powerful why are only a few getting rich and the poor are still facing a lot of hardship? I can't believe a true man of God would live in luxury when those around him struggle. I can't believe God would set up a system the benefits only a few.

Name one person in the Bible who became financially rich from money collect for their ministry. Jesus on many occassions told the Apostles to accept food and a bed only.

Believe me, wherever there's big money, there's corruption. The Bible warns of the corruption and people who will deceive those who do not follow the Holy Spirit.

The way I see it, 99.9% of those who preach and teach for money is corrupt.
 
*FELL OUT!*

Originally posted by Robber
J4J,

Do y'all remember when Oral Roberts got on TV and announced that if he didn't raise about $50M God was gonna "take him home?" I was like, God's gonna kill you if you don't raise that money? :rolleyes: But he raised it. It might not have been $50M, but it was a lot of money and obviously folk didn't want ole Oral to die. S _ _.

Jimmy Swagger spending folk's contributions on hoes.

<b>
So don't try to make this a black/white issue, because it ain't. I never called a name. <u>I just don't like the type. No matter the color or gender.</u></b> TRUE THAT! TRUE THAT!!!!!!

And no, I'm not about to throw away what I worked for. Nobody (on this Earth) gave me a dime of what I have. I earned it. BIGGGGGG difference. TRUE! TRUE! TRUE! TRUE! TRUE!!!!!
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True to what Robber said! True! True! True! It's just that I've only recently noticed how televangelists are now colored. White folx have been doing this stuff for a LOOOOOOOOONG time and in the same breath saying that "God is good and blesses abundantly" while refusing to allow ministers of color onto their tv programmes. Go figure...

Nah deary.... Panthro has a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go LOL. The checks that I receive are a shared resource for I really do believe in helping my fellow brethren/sisteren directly. Would I give this mess up if I had to? Yes I would. I didn't start life w/ any of this mess and it assuredly won't go in the ground w/ me in Montgomery Co when it's time to REALLY go on home. I remember vividly how I felt when a REAL tornado hit our home about 3 years ago. Upon being allowed to return to the area the next day, as I was driving up the street to the crib, I noticed ALL of the damage that was done to everyone elses crib and looking at them crying @ their loss in front of what was their home. Me? When I drove up and saw the damage my first thought was...<b>"Oh my God! I forgot to get Malcolm and Martin (chow-chows) out of the house before leaving yesterday! But, thank God that me and my daughter weren't here and made it out safely along w/ everyone else who has life.... I sincerely hope M&M are okay...."</b> M&M came home 2 days later battered by the strong winds. I found my bar-b-que pit, bicycles, tractor trailer, and even what was a motorcycle a half-mile away and thought nothing of that stuff for I knew that it would be replaced. I've taken nothing from the poor/underpriviledged to get to this point. I've taken a hard work ethic (aided by God of course) to get to this point. I don't see televangelists doing the same.

I liken it to we who toil in the field all day and night and there this joker is sitting under the tree or in his air conditioned house in front of the cameras enjoying the fruits of our labor saying that "God said... Bring ALL of the meat into the storehouse" w/out helping or even doing as much as he could w/ the $$$$$.
 
We can't look at a tv preacher for 1, maybe 2 hours a week and try to intelligently judge if they're really men of God just like I can't read these post once a day and determine where y'all are with God.

A lot of us are falling into the category that the meaida is in when it comes to preachers, athletes and other television figures which is NEVER saying "good job" to these guys as they help people, but rather saying, "see, I told you he was fake" whenever one of them sins. If we "pull the cover off of some of us" and some of are sin is exposed probably NONE of us would post here again.

NONE OF YOU have pastors that don't sin. None of you are with your pastors every night so even though they 'preach' well every week, they can fall to the same temptations that other preachers have fallen to and the same temptations that YOU have fallen to in your life. The only difference with then and others is that some pastors have been caught and others haven't. THEY ALL SIN and that SIN can be blown out of proportion depending on who knows. Can you think of the last time you sinned against God?(today) What if you were a national figure and that sin was blown out of proportion on television. The stones, even from christians, would be on their way NO DOUBT!

YES, preachers have problems and may be outside of the WILL of God sometimes but let "he/she who has NO sin, continue to Hate, throw stones, and Condemn."

Alternative to throwing stones: Write these pastors who you fill have problems in any way and let them know you're praying for them and Love them with the Love of Jesus. Seriously.

,
nevaehinvesting
 
nevaehinvesting,

This is not about sin this is about deception. Those that lead people to give up their money by telling them God wants them to do that.

I can't help laugh at those who give there money to Creflo Dollar, better known to some as Siphon Your Dollar.
 
Deception = Sin

You can not intelligently say what specific dollars where when someone sends monet to Creflo Dollar.

1) Being on multiple television stations IS NOT CHEAP

2) Mission Trips ARE NOT CHEAP

3) Builds that hold your congregation(thousands) ARE NOT CHEAP

4) Tunring the lights on in the " ... "

5) Renting out Arenas in 30 citites IS NOT CHEAP

6) Helping out the community(ten of thousands) with various projects IS NOT CHEAP

Think about the money it takes for you to maintain your HOUSE every month paying bills. Multiply that by a few 100 or 1000. We know where a good amount of this money goes. ALL of those things cost A LOT of money. Big ministries are EXPENSIVE! I guarantee you they don't cheat the light company or the mortgage companies. Somebody's paying the Mega Bills somehow.

Besides, if what they're doing is not FOR GOD, God will handle that. If it IS for God, they'll continue to be a blessing to millions of people as they've been doing.

,
nevaehinvesting
 
'nevaehinvesting,
When Lakewood moves to the Greenway Plaza will this be for worship services and conferences only? Will the administrative offices and bookstore remain in the same location? Also will the present worship center be used for services as well or leased?
Thanks,
 
LMBH

Starting at the end of 2003, we plan on entering into a 60yr lease with the Compaq Center. That's our plan but we want to make sure that's what God wants. Our desire is to make it place strictly for Christ Centered Events and also Service on Sunday mornings. Our pastor wants to pack it out every day of the week with whoever wants to learn about Jesus. We want bible studies, concerts, worship services conferences, etc... going on there EVERY DAY
We want Houston to known as a place for worship God.


As I understand, we will have pretty much full control over the activites that go on there and can even make some minor changes to the building.
Our pastor showed us the design that was shown to city council members and it was like whoa! It had our logo on top and a sign that said 'Jesus is Real' or something like that.

It's only available to lease, not really to have FULL ownership from the city of Houston.

We're only about half way through the process right now so we're still working out ALL of the details. The City of Houston is getting sued by 'Crescent Realty Company' because they lost the bid to us when trying to get the building. Houston has assured us that the lawsuit will not slow down the process.

So to answer your question, the Compaq Center will be used strictly for worship. (church service, concerts, seminars, 100's of projects) There's A LOT of ministry options for the building's use. We'll exercise a lot of them.

There's no sure plan as to what is going to happen with church that we're at right now because the Compaq Center deal is not done.

We're praying for God to close doors that He wants to be closed to us and open doors that He wants to be opened for us. His Will may be Compaq Center or it may be stay where we are. We'll see.
Pray for us cause we're praying for y'all.

,
nevaehinvesting
 
Now I have read the posts from all of you and there are some things that I agree with and some I absolutely do not agree with.

First of all, I have been in churches where money seems to be the main focus. I have seen preachers and members beg for money and they would not let the worship service go forward until they get the amount. I have been to Jakes church when it was still in the older building and I know for a fact that it really needed to be bigger for the amount of people who went there. I personally do not like the megachurch movement because it is leaving the smaller churches without a congregation.

I attend a church here in Kansas City that is just over 500 members and we recently bought our pastor a 2001 Cadillac Deville and I have never seen a Pastor and wife cry and embrace each other so much when they were able to get in it for the first time. The main reason that we did this is because of what he has done at that church in the 5 years that he has been there. I feel that if the pastor is working hard doing the work of God, he should be rewarded.
 
I personally do not like the megachurch movement because it is leaving the smaller churches without a congregation.
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Jesus said when He's lifted up, He'll draw all men to Him.

Do you think we should start turning people away? Of course not.
If they choose to come and join, than they are welcome regardless of how many. If a Mega Church is formed, so be it. Are you telling that you don't want your church to grow? Would you want your pastor to actually turn people away who wanted to join your church to insure that you don't reach 1000 people or become Mega?

Let the masses choose where to go, as you did, and go where they are lead to go, as you do.

,
nevaehinvesting
 
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