Southern protesting decision to play UAPB


This is a tough one but look at it this way, IF grambling had to play Southern 8 times and Pine Bluff only 6 times, who does that give a 2 game advantage to. I REALLY don't agree with the way the SWAC office handled it. But the 80% rule also makes for a very uneven playing field if some games get rained out. So it is a problem either way. I think the fairest thing to do is to play the games but plan for it at the beginning of the season and make ruling AS SOON AS GAMES ARE MISSED. As it stands, it is to some teams advantage to have games rained out.
 
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My point is SU should not have to deal with the last minute travel wear & tear this close to tournament time.
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I second that. It is so sad to see all this hatin on SU. The good thing is we will win the swac ring !!!
 



Originally posted by JaguarNationAJL

It is so sad to see all this hatin on SU. The good thing is we will win the swac ring !!!

Dude, there is no hatin on SU! This is just the SWAC office not knowing what the hell it is doing. All teams in the SWAC have been screwed over by the SWAC office at one time or another.

So please stop with the everyone is hatin SU excuse. :rolleyes:
 
Well G if you have not notice SU was the only team that had to play again. Sure you would say SU is not being single out. Ther is no excuse just plain facts. We just had to beat the crap out of them again thats all. So don't tell me about excuses
 
Originally posted by JaguarNationAJL
Well G if you have not notice SU was the only team that had to play again. Sure you would say SU is not being single out. Ther is no excuse just plain facts. We just had to beat the crap out of them again thats all. So don't tell me about excuses
I thought Pine Bluff played, too. Didn't know that SU played itself. That decision was an inconvenience for SU. It screwed UAPB.

This conference is simply run by morons and idiots. What we have here is an utter disrespect for common sense and logic. I can't see any other reason for them forcing SU and UAPB to play other than to get Gram in the tourney. Two years ago, Alcorn was up in arms because they were in first place, but couldn't make the tourney because they didn't play 80% of their games. They tried to get teams to play them. I know for a fact they wanted to play another double header against JSU on Monday, after playing two DHs that weekend. Did the SWAC office jump in and order JSU, and whoever else Alcorn needed to make games up with, to play Alcorn. Hell no!!!

Let's see. It's not OK to order makeups so the top team can try to make the tourney (Alcorn '00). But it's OK to order makeups so a 4th place team can move up to 3rd place.

This conference is full of it.
 
I've got to agree with the others. There was no hatin on SU. Sure, we were inconvenienced but I don't feel that we were the recipient of hate. From what I've seen of all of the posts on this thread, no one has said anything negative about SU. This is just a case of complete incompetence in the SWAC office. They made their ruling way to late in the game. It was unfair to both teams to get the word very late Monday and then have to scramble to get transportation to Jackson and then leave very early Tuesday morning for a game at noon. I don't totally understand having to go to Jackson instead of making up the rained out games in Pine Bluff. I'm really unhappy by what I read in The Commercial.

However, the bylaws don't match the decision, at least the original bylaws don't.

The conference faxed a set of bylaws to both schools that states each team in the conference has to play just 24 of its divisional games to be eligible for the tournament. However, the 24 was marked out with a pen and the handwritten 32 replaced it.


What's the deal with that???
 
If we up here in Normal knows that you must play rained out games, I don't understand why the rest of the Coaches in the SWAC don't know this.

AAMU is the future of the SWAC.
 
You don't have to play make up games. You just need to play 80% of the division games that are scheduled. If you can make them up, then do so, but not when you have got to schedule eight games in eight days kinda things.

This falls in line with 'BACKWOODS' or as I would say 'Busch (not Bush) Leauge'
 
UAPB Got Screwed!

Plain and simple UAPB got screwed by Coach Ellis (Committee Chair) and a spineless Interim Commish!!!

The same is true with the only 8 teams in the Basketball tourney. Give the top teams byes and let everyone play in the tournment.

The same with the first year of the SCG with only 4 games counting to determine who would go....

And on and.

We need to get a commish with some ish about him or her.
 
I know it's a moot point now, but maybe they should have let GSU and UAPB play a one game elimination game to settle the thing.
 
We must play by the Golden Rule. The person who control the Gold control the Rule. The Commissioner said you must play and you did. So I still don't understand how Coaches can make their on rules.

Somebody send help. SU was going to beat everyone anyway so what is the big deal? The game gave them more experience.
 
I will read all of the articles that were posted later.

But I think I remember cases where teams in the major leagues did not play all of their games because it would not have had a bearing on the final standings. In other words two teams may have only played 161 games because a game between them was postponed due to rain. Yet, if both of those teams were out of the playoff race, their games were not made-up.

Anyway, I find this case with SU and UAPB embarrassing. It looks like the best interest of the players are being ignored. Some sport's writer and/or talk show host (including other parts of the country) will get a hold of this and will have a lot to say. It will not be nice.
 
THis was not hating on SU, just stupidity from our leauge office.<br><br>
From Mighty Dog<br> If we up here in Normal knows that you must play rained out games, I don't understand why the rest of the Coaches in the SWAC don't know this.
Be cause the rest of us read the rules, and the rules say 80% of your games (which was 24 this year). Nobody was counting on the comish drawing a line through the 24 and writing in 32 at the last minute.<br><br>Robber, I agree with you. Alcorn really got screwed that year, and the conference did not step in and force anyone to play them. <br><br>Mike Bigg.
I know it's a moot point now, but maybe they should have let GSU and UAPB play a one game elimination game to settle the thing.
<br>Yall were better off letting us kick thier arse for yall. Those were the 2 games missed. Thier is nothing in the rules (not like they follow them) that says the 3rd and 4th place team get a playoff (playin) game
 
Commish speaks

SWAC COMMISSIONER ATTEMPTS BASEBALL EXPLANATION; BENNETT NOT SATISFIED

BY NATE OLSON / 0F THE COMMERCIAL STAFF

Tuesday afternoon, for the first time since making a ruling that kept Arkansas-Pine Bluff from competing in the Southwestern Athletic Conference Baseball Tournament, interim SWAC commissioner James Frank explained the thought process behind the ruling.

Last Monday afternoon Frank sent a fax to UAPB and Southern informing them they needed to make up two games that were canceled because of rain in mid-March because the games could have a bearing in the tournament field.

Frank discovered Monday morning that UAPB held a two-game lead on Grambling State. Knowing that Grambling owned a 5-3 advantage in head-to-head games over UAPB, Frank called for the games to be made up.

Because of the late timing of the decision he ruled the games to be played in Jackson, Miss. at a neutral site instead of at the scheduled site of Regional Park in Pine Bluff.

The result was a short-handed Golden Lions club falling in two games to the Jaguars and consequently being bounced from the tournament field.

"We did not know until Monday morning just what the final results would be," Frank said. "We had games that weekend and my SID (Wallace Dooley) was compiling the statistics and standings and told me about the situation.

"That was Monday morning and we went over the situation and that is why it took until Monday afternoon. I admit we have had some trouble with our schools getting their statistics in. We only had one day. The games ended Sunday night, so even if we had everything it would have taken until Monday. That's the explanation."

Frank said the ruling may have been made as early as Monday night if it weren't for Dooley having to correct standings that were incorrect because not all of the member schools had submitted game results.

UAPB Coach Elbert Bennett was not satisfied with the explanation.

"I don't think I ought to be penalized because the SWAC office did not have correct standings," he said. "If they're getting paid to do a service, they need to do whatever they have to make sure they have the proper statistics."

Initially, Bennett and Southern Coach Roger Cador informed Frank that each team had played enough games to be eligible for tournament play, thus making the two games unnecessary.

The two coaches were going by a ruling that was added in 2000 by then-commissioner Rudy Washington that each school had to play 80 percent of its divisional games.

"That was a one-time ruling," Frank said. "We're going on what is in affect now. Somebody sent me, I think it was Pine Bluff, sent me a document, reporting for that to be the ruling. My compliance officer (Patrick Carter), who was here at that time and is still here, told me it was a one-time ruling. That year you had a lot of games that needed to be made up by a lot of teams, so he made the ruling for that year that in order to qualify for the tournament you had to play 80 percent of your games."

The 1996 Revised Rules and Regulations of the Southwestern Athletic Conference says that each team must play 24 divisional games. Both Southern and UAPB met that requirement, but Frank contends those bylaws are meant for eight teams instead of the 10 teams that now reside in the conference.

The trouble, however, is a new set of bylaws that applies to all 10 teams has not yet been approved by the school presidents. A vote is slated for June.

Frank said it should be assumed that since the number of schools has increased by two that the number of required divisional games be increased as well.

"Since that time two schools have been added," Frank said. "We had eight schools before. That figure automatically went from 24 to 32 games. Another revision of the bylaws is going to be presented to the conference presidents, but until you get it approved you go with ones you have. But you know since you have 10 teams and have a divisional playoff that it automatically goes to the number of schools you have in the conference. It's the fact, that you have added two more schools.

"Some things, even if you don't do them through your procedures so they are approved, you have to go on the commissioner's authority. You make adjustments based on the situation. This is an easy one. You would have to say this adjustment from 24 to 32 was automatic. You have got to play more than 24 if you have 10 teams."

Frank said since playing 32 games is almost impossible, that if a team makes an effort to play the games that they will be allowed to play in the tournament, and if a situation arises like what happened this year with UAPB, it will be up to the commissioner to make a ruling.

"We have a rainout policy," Frank said. "The rainout policy that is in affect is you have to play if at all possible. Each school should be playing 32 divisional games.

"That didn't even happen this year. There is always going to be a situation where you have to make a decision, basically what I did this year. Jackson State only played 28 games, but we couldn't force them to play four more games because there wasn't enough time to play four more games. If this situation hadn't come up, it wouldn't have been an issue."

Jackson State, the No. 2 seed in the Eastern Division, only played 28 games, but Frank determined that those games didn't have a direct outcome on the tournament field.

"We had only one situation where two games could be played and it would have made a difference," Frank said. "That was Pine Bluff and Southern.

"We just didn't have time to makeup four games. If it was just a question of making up two games, that would have made a difference between Jackson State and Alabama A&M, then they would have had to play the games."

Bennett said he has copy of the proposed bylaws that were issued at the winter meetings and said the rainout rule is the same as Washington's decree from two years ago - requiring a team to play 80 percent of its games.

"If it is a one-time ruling then why is it in the constitution and bylaws that are going to be approved next month?" Bennett said. "I don't understand that. They should have just used 80 percent."

One of the things Bennett was also upset about when the ruling was made that his team had to travel to Jackson to play the games. By the time the whole situation was decided on Monday, it was 10:00 p.m., and Bennett could not get all of his players together for the 6:00 a.m. departure time on Tuesday.

"I told the people in Pine Bluff that given the timing of the situation, the closeness of the SWAC Tournament and the travel time, I thought that the fair thing was to meet on a neutral ground. I thought that even though that it was Pine Bluff's home game that the fair decision at that point was to play the game at a neutral site."

The interim commissioner said he was aware that UAPB would not be at full strength but added that Southern didn't have a complete roster either. Frank debated about playing the games in Shreveport, La., the site of the SWAC Tournament, but opted to play at Jackson State's field.

"If it is a home date for me, then I don't think under any circumstances that I should lose a home game," Frank said. "If I lose a home game then that puts me at a disadvantage. If I play four games at your home park, and you play two games at my home park, and we play two games at a neutral park - that puts me at a disadvantage. We played 52 games and only lost seven games at home. That is pretty good.

"If I am going to have to play a game like that, I don't want my home game taken away. If it is a playoff game played at a neutral site, that is fine. I don't think you can take my home game in any circumstances and require me to play at a neutral site."

When Bennett and Cador received word of the faxes on Monday, they both drafted a memo together that expressed an unwillingness to make the games up.

Frank said that was an arrogant move on the coaches' parts.

"I've been in this business long enough to know why people are upset, particularly coaches," Frank said. "They want to win. I can understand that. The two coaches - Elbert Bennett (UAPB), Roger Cador (Southern) sent me something they both signed that said the two coaches would decide. I said to Mr. (Roger) Cador, 'Where have you ever been where an organization is gong to allow two coaches to make a decision that is going to affect all of the schools in the conference?"

Bennett said UAPB will not take any legal action but said he is drafting a letter to the school presidents to explain the situation and that a group of the team members' parents are still deciding on taking legal action.

"My parents are still debating on what action they want to take," he said. "I am going to write the college presidents and request some additional information, and if we are not satisfied we may pursue it (legal action.) We are going to get some legal advice, and if they feel like we should pursue it, then we will, if we don't we won't."

Frank said he made the best decision he could considering the circumstances.

"I don't make snap judgments, if I have to sound a bit egotistical," Frank said. "I get all the facts and information I can."

The rainout policy issue will be debated during the conference spring meetings, which will be held in June and Frank said he hopes to come up with a rule that keeps a similar situation from occurring again.

"You have to look at how you can create an environment where you are not faced with this year in and year out," Frank said. "The suggestion was made to start earlier. Maybe you have to start in January? Some teams don't want to do that because it is cold in January, but you may have to do that to get some games in, so you are not backed up in the end. We will be discussing that in our spring meetings."
 
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