SODOM and GOMORRA

[JayRob]

Cite your source of this comment

No problem. It's a known fact that the canals were intentionally sabotaged. Hurricane Katrina missed New Orleans and actually hit Biloxi harder, so there was no need for the canals to break on it's own when the winds were around a category two or three. Besides, this is old, old news.

More Accounts Of Levees Being Blown: New Orleans Carpenter Reveals How
He Heard Guardsmen Talk About 'Military Buddies' Ordered To Blow Levees

"People are coming forward faster than the flood waters engulfed New Orleans, as more eye witness accounts are surfacing about the levees being blown-up by the dirty hands of government agents or military operatives.

This time eye witnesses are talking about how they overheard several military enlisted men at a New Orleans check-point, talking about how several of "their military buddies" were being reprimanded for blowing the levees even though acting on direct orders.

Although several New Orleans residents have already given their names and told about hearing a huge explosion at the Industrial Canal just before it gave-way, others like the person hearing the military chatter are asking to remain anonymous, frightened of being intimidated and harassed by Homeland Security."[/I]
http://rense.com/general69/moreacc.htm

Now about the techtonic plates and volcanoes, I'll let you look that up on your own. Katrina actually hit Biloxi harder than it did New Orleans. I highly doubt if Biloxi is more wicked than New Orleans.

 

[JayRob]

Dr. H ... we all know there is none.

I see you still haven't learned your lesson....not to challenge JayRob. You've come up short too many times for me to count.

 

[dacontinent]

I see you still haven't learned your lesson....not to challenge JayRob. You've come up short too many times for me to count.

You are correct. You dealt with the challenge in your normal way: avoidance.

Now about the techtonic plates and volcanoes, I'll let you look that up on your own. ...

Sodom and Gomorra and techtonic plates and volcanoes: You simply did not address it at all.

 

[JayRob]

If you graduated from a credible high school, you should know about techtonic plates and what happens when they slip. It has nothing to do with any god causing volcanoes or earthquakes. That's what ancient superstitious folks believed. With modern science proving how techtonic plates operate, there's no need to be superstitious any longer.
As far as Sodom and Gomorra are concerned, there's not a shred of historical data, not a shred of geological data, not a shred of archaeological data suggesting that either city ever existed.
Even if they DID exist, what's so unusual about a volcano erupting, an earthquake or a meteor slamming into a town or village by sheer chance? Nothing unusual about that. It's happened quite often of and by itself throughout earth's history. No need to blame such carnage and devastation on some god.

 

[dacontinent]

If you graduated from a credible high school, you should know about techtonic plates and what happens when they slip. It has nothing to do with any god causing volcanoes or earthquakes. That's what ancient superstitious folks believed. With modern science proving how techtonic plates operate, there's no need to be superstitious any longer.
As far as Sodom and Gomorra are concerned, there's not a shred of historical data, not a shred of geological data, not a shred of archaeological data suggesting that either city ever existed.
Even if they DID exist, what's so unusual about a volcano erupting, an earthquake or a meteor slamming into a town or village by sheer chance? Nothing unusual about that. It's happened quite often of and by itself throughout earth's history. No need to blame such carnage and devastation on some god.

So you have no support that techtonic plates or volcanoes had anything to do with Sodom and Gomorrah...just like I stated.

 

[Dr H..]

Katrina was an alleged man-made hurricane that supposedly missed New Orleans]

Rob, my question is - cite your source concerning, you stated "Katrina being man made. Had nothing to do with any god. Katrina was a man-made catastrophe."


If you going to make such a statement, must cite your source, it's like writing a research paper - cite your source, with footnotes.

Your comment concerning tectonic plates and volcanoes, is elementary. If you do a little reading / research. You will find that the Cities of S & G and other cities during that time, has been discovered. Like most cities, during that time, they had a different name. Your, next comment perhaps may be, there is no such place is the Dead Sea.

You also said

Even if they DID exist, what's so unusual about a volcano erupting, an earthquake or a meteor slamming into a town or village by sheer chance? Nothing unusual about that. It's happened quite often of and by itself throughout earth's history. No need to blame such carnage and devastation on some god.

Now, you have been around people long enough, especially elderly black. When times are hard they would often say "God or The Lord "Has been good to me" when they receive something good or something happen positive in their life, regardless of the source of the "Blessing".

During, that time and up to 2013 - whenever something happens, the mindset of the people was that it came from one source - if it came from the sky, it came from God. Example, farmers often say "I sure wish God, would bless us with us some rain, fair weather or whatever is lacking and when saying that, they are looking up to Heaven, for assurance...

With that being said, that doe not negate the existence of God

Now I ask you as I did for the past few years, Why don't you publically on this web site: Curse God, and let it be don with you.....

 

[Dr H..]

Rob,

Considering that you deny the existence of Sodom and Gomorra, please explain the following, first we agree {IF} there was a City of Sodom, the citizens, would be called Sodomites:

Also, if Sodom did not exist, thus the person of Lot does not exist. Thus, the City of Zoar, does not exist. However, the City has been found.

If the Sodom did not exist, the act of Sodomy or to Sodomize should not be part of our vocabulary - because the two are an extension from the city / behavior of the city.


Why does Josephus and Philo, write about the Sodomites?

Josephus, comments on the destruction / defeat of the Sodomites by the Assyrians and how wicked they were. The war between the two been documented by archeologist and is recorded in the history of the Syrians. Josephus, Antiquity 1:9; 1:11.

 

[JayRob]

So you have no support that techtonic plates or volcanoes had anything to do with Sodom and Gomorrah...just like I stated.

And you do? Just as you asked me, I'm asking you....evidence please.

 

[JayRob]

Rob, my question is - cite your source concerning, you stated "Katrina being man made. Had nothing to do with any god. Katrina was a man-made catastrophe."
If you going to make such a statement, must cite your source, it's like writing a research paper - cite your source, with footnotes.

It's quite amazing that you're constantly asking me to cite sources, but when it comes time for you to do likewise, you don't provide what you require me to provide.
See post 26.

Your comment concerning tectonic plates and volcanoes, is elementary. If you do a little reading / research. You will find that the Cities of S & G and other cities during that time, has been discovered. Like most cities, during that time, they had a different name. Your, next comment perhaps may be, there is no such place is the Dead Sea.

Where's your evidence proving that the cities at that time were named Sodom and Gomorrah, then changed to different names? Cite your sources and footnotes.

You also said
Now, you have been around people long enough, especially elderly black. When times are hard they would often say "God or The Lord "Has been good to me" when they receive something good or something happen positive in their life, regardless of the source of the "Blessing".

During, that time and up to 2013 - whenever something happens, the mindset of the people was that it came from one source - if it came from the sky, it came from God. Example, farmers often say "I sure wish God, would bless us with us some rain, fair weather or whatever is lacking and when saying that, they are looking up to Heaven, for assurance...

None of the above is evidence of anything. It's an opinion held by individuals. Whether folks pray or not, rain and sun will continue to shine.
It's been that way for hundreds of thousands of years, long before people lived on earth.

With that being said, that doe not negate the existence of God

With that being said, it doesn't prove the existence of the biblical god either.

Now I ask you as I did for the past few years, Why don't you publically on this web site: Curse God, and let it be don with you..

What would be the purpose of cursing something that's not known to exist? If you want it done, why not do it yourself?

 

[JayRob]

Rob,
Considering that you deny the existence of Sodom and Gomorra, please explain the following, first we agree {IF} there was a City of Sodom, the citizens, would be called Sodomites:

So you're saying that the word "sodomites" is proof that sodom and gomorrah existed eventhough the word was coined thousands of years after the supposed city was destroyed? Where's the proof that gomorrah existed? What's the word for that town?

Also, if Sodom did not exist, thus the person of Lot does not exist. Thus, the City of Zoar, does not exist. However, the City has been found.

All of the cities of the bible are not fable. Getting the name of an ancient town correct doesn't mean that ALL of the towns listed in the bible are true nor is it that it's stories are accurate.
Each town and story must stand on it's individual merits. One truth doesn't make the entire story true.

If the Sodom did not exist, the act of Sodomy or to Sodomize should not be part of our vocabulary - because the two are an extension from the city / behavior of the city.

The term sodomite was coined by religious folks from the Catholic church thousands of years after the supposed Sodom was allegedly destroyed. It had nothing to do with proof of an actual city called Sodom.

Why does Josephus and Philo, write about the Sodomites?

First of all, Josephus and Philo were born thousands of years after said sodom supposedly was destroyed. Where did they get their information from other than just taking second-handed?

Josephus, comments on the destruction / defeat of the Sodomites by the Assyrians and how wicked they were. The war between the two been documented by archeologist and is recorded in the history of the Syrians. Josephus, Antiquity 1:9; 1:11.

Like I stated earlier, Josephus lived more than 2500 years after the supposed time of Sodom and Gomorrah. All of his information is second-hand at best.
It's been proven that his writings have been tampered with as well.
In addition to that, there's not one shred of archaeological evidence supporting a biblical Sodom and Gomorrah.

What modern archaeologists have provided proof of Sodom and Gomorrah? Please list them. There have been several digs in and around the Dead Sea where the two cities supposedly existed, yet no evidence.

 

[Dr H..]

What is you position on the entire bible.. is it a vollection of lies and myths?


According to this article, Lot's Cave has been discovered. He and his family left Sodom, now if S & G did not exist, Lot and his family was a myth, because they were par tof the same story..

http://www.archaeology.co.uk/cwa/first-five-years/jordan-lots-cave-and-monastery.htm


http://armageddonapocalypse.wordpre...g-sodom-gomorrah-changing-the-worlds-climate/


http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/print/features/world/asia/israel/ashkelon-text

 

[JayRob]

What is you position on the entire bible.. is it a vollection of lies and myths?

According to this article, Lot's Cave has been discovered. He and his family left Sodom, now if S & G did not exist, Lot and his family was a myth, because they were par tof the same story.

This is laughable. How can anyone verify where Lot's cave was when all the surrounding people were killed off by the OT god?
Did he leave some of his DNA when he had sex with both of his daughters?
I wonder how people can actually believe such nonsense when there are literally hundreds of caves in various parts of the Middle East.
In addition to that, where's the evidence that a person named Lot actually existed? There is none, there's only faith or a belief that such a person existed merely because it's in the bible.

http://www.archaeology.co.uk/cwa/first-five-years/jordan-lots-cave-and-monastery.htm

This article offers not a shred of archaeological, biological or historical evidence proving that a person named Lot lived in this cave.

http://armageddonapocalypse.wordpre...g-sodom-gomorrah-changing-the-worlds-climate/

This article holds no evidence of a man named Lot living in a cave. It's full of conjecture and hypothetical "if's". The city itself where the cave is supposedly found is called Safi not Zoar, yet the author claims it to be Zoar.
Even if it was Zoar, where's the irrefutable proof that someone named Lot fathered babies by his daughters while residing in the cave? There is none.
Who would want to remember such an incestuous event in the first place and who would dare call such a man righteous and the place where he did his dirty deed "holy"?

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/print/features/world/asia/israel/ashkelon-text

Don't know why you posted this. Has nothing to do with Sodom and Gomorrah or Lot and his daughters.

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

Maybe "Illi Jag" can help with the rest of the story.

The Mess we created

Life reflects the consequences of our actions. We have rejected God in our actions, thus the state we find ourselves in is “God setting us Freeâ€￾.

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves

We worship not the Creator but honor that which is created and provided by Him. We have ignored the Source of all things. Yet, many of the marvelous things we see, the sun, the air we breathe, fruits we eat, and even ourselves. We often do not honor the source of all things, which is God, but honor the will and wants of man even the established righteousness (self-righteousness) defined by man.

Romans 1:19-21 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

To say that any act or event by man or nature is not under the control of God; is to really say that there is no God. It is Man that lacks control, God has control, if not, God is no God.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

The worst thing God could ever do to Man is to leave Man free to do Man’s will; that is to leave man without any restraints. Romans 1 clearly states how we got to where we are today; we have continued in our sins knowing the truth of God, thus “God has set us freeâ€￾. The restraint of God, which He works through man, is man’s means of judging and/or restraining another. However, when man freely sin against God’s law in acts of racism, fornication, adulterer, and many other forms of wickedness, man has given away his ability to judge such sin as homosexuality. In simple language, "how can a fornicator or adulterer judge a homosexual? Even if you find yourself not ever having been a fornicator or an adulterer, if you have accepted or condone such behaviors you too are party to such a sin.

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

I think all True Christians feel dejected, vexed and even helpless from the rapid pace that this sin is being thrust upon us. Every day there are new statements of acceptance by prominent worldly figures (i.e. our President, Preachers, Entertainers and Politicians) who not only embraces but promote this lifestyle. As Christian we need not to fear for God is in control, He is just setting free all who only claims to be Christians. When it comes to matters of truth, Peter stated it best:

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

There is nothing we can do to stop the world from accepting and promoting the homosexual lifestyle. However as Christians, we must show love by telling both the homosexuals and their supporters the truth. This situation is now in the hands of God. Biblical history seems to imply that homosexuality is not a sin that should cause us to fear its judgment, homosexuality is the judgment; a judgment against an unrighteous society that will surely bring wrath.

This is what happens when Man substitutes his own righteousness in place of God’s righteousness; there are two passages that give a stern warning:

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness (i.e. suppress the truth).

Good Day and God Bless

1 of 2

 

[illinijag]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).

They also took some actions based on what they encountered.

What is Next

Below are three Biblical accounts of how God brought wrath on those who openly practice and accepted the homosexual lifestyle. I have listed scriptures with my commentary. The scriptures are facts; however, my commentary should be subjected to scriptures.

The people in the land of Canaan

This is what happened in the land of Canaan (please read all of Leviticus chapter 20)

Leviticus 20:13. If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:23. And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them.

God’s Response:

God used the Nation of Israel to remove the people of Canaan from the land

Joshua 6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

The Benjamites in Gibeah

This is what happened in Gibeah, an area belonging to Benjamites (please read Judges Chapters 19 & 20)

Judges 19:22-27. Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him. And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly. Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.

God’s Response:

God used the Nation of Israel to wipe out most of the Benjamite men (young men of war) with the exception of a remnant of 600.

Judges 20:46-48. So all who fell of Benjamin that day were twenty-five thousand men who drew the sword; all these were men of valor. But six hundred men turned and fled toward the wilderness to the rock of Rimmon, and they stayed at the rock of Rimmon for four months. And the men of Israel turned back against the children of Benjamin, and struck them down with the edge of the sword from every city, men and beasts, all who were found. They also set fire to all the cities they came to.

People of Sodom and Gomorrah

This is only a sample of what happened in the land of Sodom and Gomorrah (please read all of Genesis 19)

Genesis 19:5-7. And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

God’s Response:

God addressed this matter by sending Fire and Brimstones from Heaven

Genesis 19:24 Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord out of the heavens.

Conclusion

God’s manner of addressing Sodomy/Homosexuality in history has concluded with wrath in some form or another; how God will address our problem is up to Him. However, we would be wise to heed His past responses and pray for Mercy.

1 Corinthians 10:11. Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Good Day and God Bless
2 of 2

 

[Dr H..]

JayRob

So if you do not recognize the "OT" God, why dont you just cuss, God and let it be done. You must beleive, because for the past three years I have challenged you to do so. If He does not exist, what are you afraid of...

 

[JayRob]

JayRob

So if you do not recognize the "OT" God, why dont you just cuss, God and let it be done. You must beleive, because for the past three years I have challenged you to do so. If He does not exist, what are you afraid of...

If I cursed something I didn't believe in, that would make me guilty of actually believing in what I just cursed.

Now tell me how was Lot "righteous" after he committed incest with his daughters on consecutive nights while in a drunken stupor? The bible calls him righteous. LOL!!

 

[Dr H..]

If I cursed something I didn't believe in, that would make me guilty of actually believing in what I just cursed.

"Since you do not believe"

If you dont beleive, what I have suggested will not hurt you. Because, if God does not exist, there in not hurt or harm can come to you. So you do believe, that's why you are afraid. :nod: and reflects that you are a coward and full of hot air.

I can curse and say whatever I please to an object be it made of stone; wood; metal etc, because I know it's just an object with not power and it cannot hurt or harm me..

 

[JayRob]

"Since you do not believe"

If you dont beleive, what I have suggested will not hurt you. Because, if God does not exist, there in not hurt or harm can come to you. So you do believe, that's why you are afraid. :nod: and reflects that you are a coward and full of hot air.

I can curse and say whatever I please to an object be it made of stone; wood; metal etc, because I know it's just an object with not power and it cannot hurt or harm me..

Which is worse, cursing the OT/NT god or denying the existence of a holy spirit? No need for me to curse because I've said time and again there's no such thing as any holy spirit.

Now why are you ignoring post #37 where it shows that Lot was called "righteous" eventhough he committed incest with not one, but BOTH of his daughters while in a drunken stupor. If that's righteous, I don't want no parts of it.

 

[dacontinent]

...Now tell me how was Lot "righteous" after he committed incest with his daughters on consecutive nights while in a drunken stupor? The bible calls him righteous. LOL!!

Er...uh...considering that you cited this reference would mean that you read it and did not understand it, telling someone of your immense intelligence about it would be pointless. So, I will let the passage speak for itself.

Gen 19:30-38
30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
37 And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

 

[JagBR]

We did this thread in 2007 too.





February 19, 2007, 08:21 PM #10




nevaehinvesting





nevaehinvesting is offline Member
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Join Date:Jun 7, 2001Posts:930




Default Re: SODOM and GOMORRAH





Code:
Why do you think persons behave in that manner?
One word "flesh". Our flesh is bad and will cause us to do things that we NEVER thought we'd do. God says goes right, flesh says go left. God says man with woman, flesh says man with man. That's how flesh operates - opposing God. That's why God says the one way to deal with flesh is to 'crucify it.'

If we let our guard down even for a moment, our flesh will have us doing things that will make you be like Even Christians!

Well said! (Crucify it!)

 

[JagBR]

JH, that's because those people focused more on the messenger and not the message. When a person truly knows & understands God's Word, they have (or know to ask God for) for the spirit of discernment. For people who are Christians and/or Believers, they know to use the most valuable resource that Jesus left us with, the Holy Spirit. Anyone person who truly wants to be saved and led to Jesus will be done so by God. He wants a relationship with us and won't lead a willing heart and spirit to a place where they can't feel or experience His presence. Nor will He lead them to a place where the messenger isn't obedient to Him.

The sooner EVERYONE realizes that pastors, preachers, ministers, etc are flesh and not above temptation and sin, the better. That's why Paul said we (Christians/Believers) are to pray for such people in authority to lead peaceable lives. Being called by God has never exempted any pastor from temptation or sin.

Jimmy Swaggart would be a good example. He had a large following up until the Hotel incident. Had to turn away people at his camp meetings. But his messages are straight from the Bible.

 

[JayRob]

Er...uh...considering that you cited this reference would mean that you read it and did not understand it, telling someone of your immense intelligence about it would be pointless. So, I will let the passage speak for itself.

Gen 19:30-38
30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; [Band he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose[/B].
36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
37 And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

So what you're saying is this man had sex twice in two nights and didn't know it? Either way, he was either a raving alcoholic to NOT know whether or not he was having sex or somebody's telling another tall tale in the bible. Odds are that the latter is the correct answer.
Besides, there were other people in towns not far away. The girls could've found husbands but NOOOOOO, they had to have daddy......LITERALLY!!!
Never mind that he was a drunkard, he's still righteous. Now if I recall correctly, being a drunkard is not synonomous with being righteous....at least not in the bible.

 

[JagBR]

Disclaimer: This message is only to those who believe in the one and only true God, the God who provided the Saviour (Jesus Christ).





The Mess we created

Life reflects the consequences of our actions. We have rejected God in our actions, thus the state we find ourselves in is “God setting us Free”.

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves

We worship not the Creator but honor that which is created and provided by Him. We have ignored the Source of all things. Yet, many of the marvelous things we see, the sun, the air we breathe, fruits we eat, and even ourselves. We often do not honor the source of all things, which is God, but honor the will and wants of man even the established righteousness (self-righteousness) defined by man.

Romans 1:19-21 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

To say that any act or event by man or nature is not under the control of God; is to really say that there is no God. It is Man that lacks control, God has control, if not, God is no God.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

The worst thing God could ever do to Man is to leave Man free to do Man’s will; that is to leave man without any restraints. Romans 1 clearly states how we got to where we are today; we have continued in our sins knowing the truth of God, thus “God has set us free”. The restraint of God, which He works through man, is man’s means of judging and/or restraining another. However, when man freely sin against God’s law in acts of racism, fornication, adulterer, and many other forms of wickedness, man has given away his ability to judge such sin as homosexuality. In simple language, "how can a fornicator or adulterer judge a homosexual? Even if you find yourself not ever having been a fornicator or an adulterer, if you have accepted or condone such behaviors you too are party to such a sin.

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

I think all True Christians feel dejected, vexed and even helpless from the rapid pace that this sin is being thrust upon us. Every day there are new statements of acceptance by prominent worldly figures (i.e. our President, Preachers, Entertainers and Politicians) who not only embraces but promote this lifestyle. As Christian we need not to fear for God is in control, He is just setting free all who only claims to be Christians. When it comes to matters of truth, Peter stated it best:

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

There is nothing we can do to stop the world from accepting and promoting the homosexual lifestyle. However as Christians, we must show love by telling both the homosexuals and their supporters the truth. This situation is now in the hands of God. Biblical history seems to imply that homosexuality is not a sin that should cause us to fear its judgment, homosexuality is the judgment; a judgment against an unrighteous society that will surely bring wrath.

This is what happens when Man substitutes his own righteousness in place of God’s righteousness; there are two passages that give a stern warning:

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness (i.e. suppress the truth).

Good Day and God Bless

1 of 2

The worst thing God could ever do to Man is to leave Man free to do Man’s will; that is to leave man without any restraints. Romans 1 clearly states how we got to where we are today; we have continued in our sins knowing the truth of God, thus “God has set us free”. The restraint of God, which He works through man, is man’s means of judging and/or restraining another. However, when man freely sin against God’s law in acts of racism, fornication, adulterer, and many other forms of wickedness, man has given away his ability to judge such sin as homosexuality. In simple language, "how can a fornicator or adulterer judge a homosexual? Even if you find yourself not ever having been a fornicator or an adulterer, if you have accepted or condone such behaviors you too are party to such a sin.


Awesome!!!!!!

 

[Dr H..]

So what you're saying is this man had sex twice in two nights and didn't know it?

This happens all the time, Lot's action is nothing new. His daughter's were just a guilty. I reckon that's why the bible warn us about drinking red wine - Proverbs 23.

Honestly I beleive this could have been a past practice / habit with Lot's daughters. Based on the actions of his daughters, they knew and understood his bahavior after a night of drinking "Red Wine" Afterall, they lived in Sodom

This same line of thought has been part of the "Royal Families" of Europe for generations. However, they are not drunk, in all cases.


Lot and his daughters, the first recorded case of "Date Rape"

Lot 's righteouness, "'Righteous' is a relative term;

Please read and understand the entire story and how Peter, uses three cases as it relates to how God deal's with unbelievers. Was Lot "Righteous" absoutly not, however the emphasis is, God will not only punish the wicked but He will also extricate the righteous from the judgment.

We cannot always tell who the righteous are, but God knows (Matt.13:24-30). How a person behaves may be misleading.

 

[JayRob]

This happens all the time, Lot's action is nothing new. His daughter's were just a guilty. I reckon that's why the bible warn us about drinking red wine - Proverbs 23.
Honestly I beleive this could have been a past practice / habit with Lot's daughters. Based on the actions of his daughters, they knew and understood his bahavior after a night of drinking "Red Wine" Afterall, they lived in Sodom
This same line of thought has been part of the "Royal Families" of Europe for generations. However, they are not drunk, in all cases.
Lot and his daughters, the first recorded case of "Date Rape"

So you're now blaming Lot's daughters for HIS drunkeness? That's laughable. Did they force him to drink wine to the point where he was in a drunken stupor, not knowing he wasn't having sex with his own daughters? It's amazing the excuses people make for biblical figures and give them all kinds of passes that make little to no sense at all.

Who FORCED Lot to get drunk two straight nights? If he had had three daughters, he probably would've gotten drunk THREE straight nights. Seems to me that Lot's god was the bottle.

Lot 's righteouness, "'Righteous' is a relative term;

Another excuse.

Please read and understand the entire story and how Peter, uses three cases as it relates to how God deal's with unbelievers. Was Lot "Righteous" absoutly not, however the emphasis is, God will not only punish the wicked but He will also extricate the righteous from the judgment.
We cannot always tell who the righteous are, but God knows (Matt.13:24-30). How a person behaves may be misleading.

I already read the entire story. What did Lot do to make him righteous? He did nothing. No wonder his other relatives laughed at him. It's because they knew him as a person and knew his history of alcohol abuse.

Why was Lot saved? It wasn't because of his own righteousness, it was because of someone else's deeds, yet Peter had the audacity to call him righteous? LOL!!
As soon as Lot escaped from Sodom, he committed one of the worst acts a person could commit which is incest. One would think that his actions of incest were far worse than the alleged acts of homosexuality committed by the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah. They were killed off, but Lot was saved. Go figure.