Player dissing the flag

[dacontinent]

Originally posted by Robber
dacontinent,

Your "major corporation" firing you for your speech ain't the same as governmental punishment for speech. The Constitution doesn't control your private "major corporation", but it does control the gov't.

We simply need to learn to be more tolerant of those who disagree with our views regarding these political protests.

"WE" changes by situation. Manhattanville College (MC) is a private institution, just like my "major corporation". That entity may choose to have a policy that punishes (suspends/expels) a student for misrepresenting the university without violating that students constitutional rights. To this point, MC has chosen not to do that.

Statement from Richard A. Berman President, Manhattanville College

?Prior to each game throughout the 2002-03 season, Toni Smith, a senior forward on Manhattanville College?s women?s basketball team, has chosen to turn away from the American flag during the playing of the Star Spangled Banner."

?While Ms. Smith is expressing her personal views and not necessarily those of the college, the first amendment guarantees her right to do so. This is particularly true at Manhattanville College, where our mission is to ?educate ethically and socially responsible leaders for the global community.? Manhattanville asks only that all views be expressed ? and received ? with respect and dignity."

"It is irrelevant whether I, or anyone else, agree or disagree with Ms. Smith?s position. Her right of expression is fundamental and we support her.?

Like I said, I think MC should have such a policy and they don't. I will support Toni Smith's right to protest in this manner AND continue as a member of the team as long as it does not violate university policy.

 

[pbla]

Re: The Bodies and the Flag

Originally posted by ALCORNITE 86
I have friends, family members, classmates who are in the Middle East not by choice but because they chose a profession or way of life that may cause them to come home in a coffin.


She can protest all she wants and that is the freedom that she has.

There are over 200,000 soldiers in the Middle East; there is another 37,000 here in Korea. WE do not need to see or hear about why the war is wrong or unjust. We need the support of the American people because we made a choice.

My thoughts and prayers will be with anyone who chose the military as way of life whatever their reasons may be. But a protest is not against the men and women who are in the military, but it's aimed at the decison maker who decided to put those lives in harm's way just because he want his name in the history books as a tough president. The military and the media propaganda machine is powerful weapon for anyone who is misinformed. Brainwashing is a legitimate weapon of war, it's one of the three ways a war can be fought,physcological warfare. Sadly it's used on the American people more than enough.

 

[unknown]

Re: The Bodies and the Flag

Originally posted by ALCORNITE 86

There are over 200,000 soldiers in the Middle East; there is another 37,000 here in Korea. WE do not need to see or hear about why the war is wrong or unjust. We need the support of the American people because we made a choice.

Not everyone is willing to support an unjust cause.

 

[Lewis]

Yup, and there was no Law against that vet running out on the court with a flag or standing in front of her holding a flag. Just because ain't illegal, don't mean that it is not unethical or should not be allowed. <br><br>I teach school, and sure a student could get more attention protesting in/during the class, because the audience is their, but they came for the class not a protest (even a silent one) and I will bounce their arse outta their even though it is not illegal. At times we may have debates and then BOTH sides have an equal opportunity. BUt here that is not the case. I really don't care what statement the school released it don't make it right. but if that is their position the let the vet out thier also. IF she just doesn't want to look at the flag, she could just stay her arse in the lockerroom

 

[Lewis]

In addtion, the flag does not just stand for the current potential War. THat is such a very small part of what it stands for. The biggest thing is stand for is freedoms, so to me it is almost like biting the hand that feeds you. She could protest without dissing the flag or making a spectical out of her teams basketball games (which in my opinion, is also very distrespectful and in poor taste).

 

[bluedog]

Originally posted by Lewis
Yup, and there was no Law against that vet running out on the court with a flag or standing in front of her holding a flag.

Lewis you my alum dude but your wong on this one,guess what though?...thats your right]

BTW there is a law against it...its call disturbing the peace

 

[AAMU Alum]

Originally posted by Lewis
Yup, and there was no Law against that vet running out on the court with a flag or standing in front of her holding a flag

The vet made more a spectacle of himself with his demonstration, than she did by simply turning her back. I can imagine that there have been several people at those basketball games who didn't even realize what she was doing, until it was brought to the attention of the media.

 

[Antroy]

I don't have a problem with her protest. This is America and she has the right to do whatever she wants to do as long as it doesn't inflict bodily harm on anyone else.
She has the right to protest an unnecessary war led by a president that has become nothing but a high school bully. He has said that even though there are millions of people that don't want this war, he is going on with it. He even told the U.N. that either you are with us or you are against us. Nobody wants this war but Bush.
Her protest is just like the hundreds of other protests that are going on around the country. She is getting attention because she is a basketball player and she has chosen to protest during the playing of the National Anthem before her basketball games. That's her right. She was given that right when she was born.
And saying that the Vietnam vet that came on the floor and put the flag in her face had the right to do so, is silly as "L"!! He is not a member of either of those school's basketball team nor is he a coach or was a referee for that game. He bought a ticket to the game to be a spectator, not to get on the court. That's all that ticket gives you the RIGHT to do...watch the game in the stands. Not to get on the court.

 

[HBCUs]

Wow, a smackless sportsboard conversation.

 

[Jafus (Thinker)]

we made a choice.

Interesting, "We" Uhhhh

 

[bluedog]

Originally posted by HBCUs
Wow, a smackless sportsboard conversation.

YOU JUST SCREWED THAT UP... :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 

[Lewis]

Originally posted by Alcorn Warrior

And saying that the Vietnam vet that came on the floor and put the flag in her face had the right to do so, is silly as "L"!! He is not a member of either of those school's basketball team nor is he a coach or was a referee for that game. He bought a ticket to the game to be a spectator, not to get on the court. That's all that ticket gives you the RIGHT to do...watch the game in the stands. Not to get on the court.

You say all that Ticket gives you the RIGHT to watch the game, and I content when she agreed to play basketball all that gave her the right to do was to play ball and did not give her the right to use the team/game/school and the attention the game draws to make her personal political statement. <br><br>Also, many post says she has a right to disagree with the war. THat is true, and I agree with that. But to me thier is a big difference in disagreeing with something and disrespecting something. If the school want to condone this and allow thier basketball ball games to be used for political statements, I would perfer that they let her have the mike for 2 or 3 mintues and state her veiw (read disagree in a repectful manner) and then LET SOMEONE OF A OPPOSING VIEW HAVE EQUAL TIME!!!! <br>I have a friend that thier are things that I don't agree with him on, and at times we have serious debates, each with our own opinion, but I would never disresect him like that .

 

[Bartram]

She's not really protesting a cause, give me a F'in break.

I hate to have to agree with right wing conservatives, but it's not so much an honest protest of a cause of hers as much as it is a protest of the current republican administration. Just like all these idiots out here in San Fransisco that marched. I bet only 10% of them were really serious. The rest of these ingrates were just out looking for a good time and protesting Bush. Let's just call a spade a fuggin' spade here. :idea:

And I still say,,,, back to my post on her quote about defense and school,,,,,,,, the girl has no clue. Rather you think it is a "just cause" or not, if it wasn't for the might of the U.S. military, none of us would have the freedom to be sitting here debating this so casually.

Again I would ask, does anybody on here sincerely, honestly believe that if the U.S. disbanded it's military that this would solve all the problems of the world and there would be no more war?

Lastly, let's agree on the fact that the U.S. is going to go to war with Iraq. Since some of you think it is an "unjust cause", does that mean you will be rooting against the U.S. and for Iraq\Saddam,, even if that would mean a future attack on the U.S. from terrorists backed by a strong Iraq(just work with me here, let's assume this premise is correct for a moment.)??

 

[bluedog]

Re: She's not really protesting a cause, give me a F'in break.

Originally posted by Bartram
I
Lastly, let's agree on the fact that the U.S. is going to go to war with Iraq. Since some of you think it is an "unjust cause", does that mean you will be rooting against the U.S. and for Iraq\Saddam,,

Now thats just plain @ss stupid!!!
What part that you guys miss that protesting against a war has diddly squat to do with protesting the military?
Now what happen on 9/11 was horrible no doubt,but if you think that happen because somebody woke up one day and just wanted to run into a building for no apparent reason.
Then maybe you need to join the military,they love people who don't think any further then they can see.
The bottom line ...you guys can disagrree with her as much as you like,but that doesn't make her any less american or you any more.
Thank GOD Doctor King didn't think like that and just went with the popular view. :smh: :smh:

Then again it isn't the popular view,which makes this more insane.

 

[unknown]

Re: Re: She's not really protesting a cause, give me a F'in break.

Originally posted by bluedog

Now thats just plain @ss stupid!!!
What part that you guys miss that protesting against a war has diddly squat to do with protesting the military?
Now what happen on 9/11 was horrible no doubt,but if you think that happen because somebody woke up one day and just wanted to run into a building for no apparent reason.
Then maybe you need to join the military,they love people who don't tihnk any further then they can see.
The bottom line ...you guys can disagrree with her as much as you like,but that doesn't make her any less american or you any more.
Thank GOD Doctor King didn't think like that and just went with the popular view. :smh: :smh:

Then again it isn't the popular view,which makes this more insane.

Agreed, that was a pretty stupid post. I guess if Bush decided he wanted to up and bomb South Africa next week because they have diamonds, he'd support that too.

 

[Robber]

Bartram,

I see you refuse to understand how someone can love this country, and not agree with this war. It ain't difficult to understand, yet you make it seem like quantum physics or rocket science. Who are you to say what that girl believes and what she knows??? Apparently, she feels that too much money is spent on military and not enough on education. That's why she said she'd love to see the military have a bake sale, because schools have to beg for money. She thinks money is unnecessarily wasted on the military.

I don't agree with this war, either. But I damn sure ain't pulling for Iraq to win. And it's really idiotic to suggest that anyone against the war is against the U.S. So your premise is all messed up.

 

[JSU/99]

Sometimes I wonder about those who claim that unless you follow uniformly in line with the war, you're anti- american. You can't possibly believe that. The Flag is a national symbol, but we're not to honor and cherish the symbol. We're to honor and cherish the spirt behind it and the struggles it symbolizes. A major part of that is the right to peacefully protest.

For years a Friend of mine(and fellow poster) has refused to stand for the national anthem at sporting events. I, on the other hand, will stand, not so much out of respect but out of custom. When you look at it, his refusal to stand is really the act of a true American in the sense that he's peacefully refusing to budge from a principle in which he believes. Mine on the other hand is the act of 1 who's content to follow lock-step with the rest of the crowd, something we've fought to get away from.

The right to protest shouldn't be diminished during war times, it should be heightened. That's the true American way.

BTW, I wonder how many war supporters would this country have if there was a draft?

 

[Robber]

bluedog, unknown and kool aid

Y'all getting deported to Iraq. Y'all can't get behind the U.S. on this war, then you must be against it. If you're against it, you're a traitor. You have no place here.

 

[unknown]

I know huh? If it came down to a draft, there is no way I would fight in this war. Now it would be different had it been WWI or WWII when there was a justifiable cause FOR the war, but to go over there and kill all of those people for a hidden agenda? Sorry I just don't see the logic in it. Watching CNN today, Iraq has already began destroying their Al-Samoud missiles, and Blix has received a report that may prove that the 155 chemical weapons & 455 hidden missiles they were searching for may have already been destroyed. But ol Dubya is STILL shipping troops to the middle east. SMH

 

[bluedog]

BTW, I wonder how many war supporters would this country have if there was a draft? [/B][/QUOTE]

If the draft were here there would still be the same about of support or more koo-aid.
The thing is we're forgetting that we are the majority in our opinion because until this girl stance all we saw and heard is what our govt. wants us to believe, i get your point though.

I think you'll find this interesting,i have one friend and a cousin who are but career military,ones retired both recruit
Right after 9/11 i spoke with both of them and suggested that they must really be busy because of the uproar of 9/11.
They both told me the same thing,and that was for all the radio rage,flag waving and flag buying there was little to nobody volunteering for service.
If you notice every time the media spoke about someone ln a sense of volunteering its was some athletic who was already in the reserve.
I am not saying that anyone on this page who this agree with me fits into to that,but i am saying that there's alway these so-called patriot's that rant and rave and gets the country in a uproar, but when it comes down to it their all mouth.

 

[bluedog]

Originally posted by Robber
bluedog, unknown and kool aid

Y'all getting deported to Iraq. Y'all can't get behind the U.S. on this war, then you must be against it. If you're against it, you're a traitor. You have no place here.

am telling ya if i close my eyes i get flashbacks of the 60's and it sounds like a bunch of old redneck's :smh: :smh:

 

[Bartram]

No Sports Smack, Where do Yall draw the line?

Originally posted by HBCUs
Wow, a smackless sportsboard conversation.

Well if you ax me,,, bluedog started it! Alls I was asking was rather or not the dad-blame girl was black! Next thing I know, a slang term that I used is taken and run with.

Other than that, and with all the subsequent replies,,,,, my question is,,,, what da fugg would it take for many of yall to agree that military action is required? tanks from another country rolling onto U.S. soil? U.S. forces being attack somewhere abroad?(obviously that's not it because then there's all the reasons as to why they were attacked which you would default to.) Let me just throw this out for conjecture; let's say a country was behind 911,,,,, if Bush was now going after that country, would you be for or against that action????

 

[Robber]

Bartram,

I firmly believe that force should be met with force. But I ain't for playing big brother for every little country out there that can't defend itself. Saddam may be violating the agreement reached after the first Gulf War. But why were we fighting him then??? Iraq was never a threat to us, but we damn sho wanted to fight them. I firmly believe that there's a hidden agenda behind this mess. I'll forever pull for our troops to be victorious, but I'm not in favor of this cause. As long as they are risking life and limb, I want them to kick butt. Don't mean I gotta agree with it.

Now answer me this, what's so important that the U.S. gotta go against the U.N. and make this war???

 

[bluedog]

Originally posted by Robber
Bartram,

I firmly believe that force should be met with force. But I ain't for playing big brother for every little country out there that can't defend itself. Saddam may be violating the agreement reached after the first Gulf War. But why were we fighting him then??? Iraq was never a threat to us, but we damn sho wanted to fight them. I firmly believe that there's a hidden agenda behind this mess. I'll forever pull for our troops to be victorious, but I'm not in favor of this cause. As long as they are risking life and limb, I want them to kick butt. Don't mean I gotta agree with it.

Now answer me this, what's so important that the U.S. gotta go against the U.N. and make this war???

DITTO!!
Just what i am talking about,on the one hand their saying go after saddam because he's not obeying what the UN is saying,then on the other they state clearly that no matter what the UN say's their going to do what they want.

 

[Lewis]

Here is another point of view (forget that damn girl for a minute). WHAT IF BUSH REALLY DOESN'T WANT TO FIGHT. Now stop and think about it for a minute. If he let Saddam think that he would not fight, Saddam would not do a damn thing that he agreed to. Saddam would spit in our face every chance he got and openly defy us at every chance. You know how it is in the hood, you don't mess with crazy n*ggers that will fight a the drop of a hat. So BUSH's best strategy even if he doesn't really want to fight is to make SADDAM think so and the he don't give a damn what anyone else thinks. AND BUSH HAS DONE A GREAT JOB OF THAT. Saddam is giving up stuff he ain't never gave up before, and bush ain't passed nair lick yet. He may have everyone fooled. Maybe BUSH aint quite as dumb as we think ( don't get me wrong, I am not saying he ain't dumb)