Player dissing the flag


Originally posted by dacontinent


The problem here is that she dissed the flag and not the government. It has nothing to do with tax dollars.

Since the university president/administration does not view her as representing the university with the uniform on, I suppose she can just do whatever she wants.

I do respect her right to protest AS AN INDIVIDUAL REPRESENTING HERSELF ALONE. My problem is that she IS representing the university in this protest and not just herself.
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What good is a protest in your dorm room? The purpose of activism is to take it on the biggest stage possible.

I stand by her decision here. The First Amendment was written for people like her who don't hold the majority opinion.
 
Originally posted by NASTYNUPE
Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf(Chris Jackson) took a similiar stance and he got black balled from the NBA. A black muslim male refuses to honor the flag and he gets blasted. Some ofay broad refuses to face the flag and she gets support from her university and a 3 minute piece on ESPN.

Amerikkka...you just gotta love it!!!
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It's not a race issue here, the Chris Jackson thing was at a different time (pre-9/11, etc) and the mood of the country was different. His protest wasn't taken up by many others because, let's face it, it was not and is not a big cause. This war is.

Therein lies the difference.
 



Just Call Me Out

I'm the military guy who dissagree with what she is doing. That's my opinon and I do have an opinion on both fronts that we may have to fight on but I will keep them to myself.



She is wrong in my opinion.
 
I thought Chris Jackson's portest was based on his religious beliefs and not a war that is going to happen no matter how much protest there is.
 
Re: Just Call Me Out

Originally posted by ALCORNITE 86
I'm the military guy who dissagree with what she is doing. That's my opinon and I do have an opinion on both fronts that we may have to fight on but I will keep them to myself.



She is wrong in my opinion.
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Soldiers don't have a choice, they do what they are told or they go to jail.
 
I think my statement may have been misinterpeted. I don't disagree with her right to protest, I totally agree with that. I just don't agree with her using her basketball team as a platform to do it. One she puts on that uniform and they walk out of that locker room, she should not be expressing her political views. Now if she pickets for 10 hours before game or 10 hour after, that is her business and I would fight for her right to do it. But it is almost like using your job to make a protest. <br><br> She is at a college, so I am sure it is not hard to get a student organzation together and protest whatever they want. At the school I go to, there is a place we call yell alley, almost every day someone is there protesting, preaching, or trying to raise money for some good cause, and again I defend their right to do it, but when I pay $10 (or whatever a ticket costs) to go see a basketball game, I should not have to see there protest there, esp. when they are in a secure area (the court) where no one can protest back. In yell alley, if I don't like someone's protest, I can confront them, yell back, wave a flag in front of them, debate them, or even run their arse off, etc. But as a player in the game, you cannot confront her (althought 1 veitnom vet did) Securty will run to her aid (like they did); It is one thing to disagree with something, another to disrespect it. I wonder if she disagrees with the coach, does she turn her back on him???? And if she does, will they call that free speech, or will they use their free speech to bench her or kick her arse off the team.
<br><br>If they allow her to do it on the court( which I don't agree) , at least they should allow other protesters on the court also during the national anthem . And if they surrounded her with flags, so be it.
 
Protest the protestor.

Originally posted by Lewis
If they allow her to do it on the court( which I don't agree) , at least they should allow other protesters on the court also during the national anthem . And if they surrounded her with flags, so be it.
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Precisely. Couldn't agree more. Sending the Viet vet packing was whack.
 
Perhaps no one's considered this but...

.... Except for this year's rebounding stats, this girl ain't got time to worry about protesting. She needs to try improving her game. :smug:
 
Originally posted by bluedog


So i guess the three brotha's in the olympic's weren't representing america while they dissed the flag huh ? :smh: :smh:
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"We were not Antichrists. We were just human beings who saw a need to be recognized. I don't like the idea of people looking at is a negative. Thre was nothing but a raised fist in the air and a bowed head, acknowledging the American flag - not symbolizing a hatred for it." - Tommie Smith, HBO's Fists of Freedom

Tommie Smith and John Carlos were representing America as they stood in protest. As a result they were SUSPENDED from the US team and BANNED from the Olympic village. They paid the cost for their peaceful protest. They were not denied the right to protest and they continued to protest as INDIVIDUAL CITIZENS not representing the US Olympic team when they returned from Mexico City. I work for a major corporation and I have the right to protest or support anything that I chose, the same as any citizen in the country. However, if I do it while representing the corporation, I can be FIRED.

Originally posted by bluedog
As soon as somebody stands up to use their rights here comes the military guys.Its amazing to me how one day their talking about how "the govt."treats black so unfair the genicide etc.
Then the next day they can't wait to go get slauther or mame for this same govt. thats has alway put their @sses up front as pawns.
While opie and the bushes sit their @sses somewhere in a safe place then come home proclaiming to be war hero's :smh: :smh: :smh:
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I'm not a military guy, but I come from a long line of them in major conflicts involving this country dating back to the Civil War. Many died and were wounded while simply doing their jobs. Not all of them agreed with the reasoning for their deployment, but we know of no dissention among them in carrying out their duties, even when it cost them their lives. They were war heroes and they knew it, even if they weren't famous or never returned home again. There is something very freeing about knowing who you are.

Originally posted by sophandros


What good is a protest in your dorm room? The purpose of activism is to take it on the biggest stage possible.

I stand by her decision here. The First Amendment was written for people like her who don't hold the majority opinion.
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I have no problem with the lady taking her protest to the stage that playing basketball affords her. Since the school has no problem with it, I think she has succeeded in her quest. I support her every right to protest as an individual, but not while wearing the uniform. There were many enlisted personnel who protested the VIETNAM war but they knew to not do it while wearing the uniform and they were aware of the repercussions of getting arrested and having it discovered that they were armed forces personnel.

Personally, my problem is with the university allowing itself to be represented this way without any repercussions. Personally, I would have at least suspended her and possibly dismissed her from the team. If she wanted to be a person not representing the university but wanted to exercise the right to not salute the flag, she would have every freedom to not do so.
 
Her quotes are horrible too.

Her Favorite Quotes: "If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything." :sleep2: "It will be a great day when our schools get all the money they need and the military has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber." :shades:

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, let me see if I got this straight; "and the military has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber."???????????? :xeye:

,,,,,,,,,,,,,, now look folks,,,,,, you mean to tell me dat de solutions to all our problems are to wish death to the military???? Does this young lady really understand what she is saying? :confused: Do many of you agree with this???? :eek:
 
Her decision.

Originally posted by sophandros


What good is a protest in your dorm room? The purpose of activism is to take it on the biggest stage possible.

I stand by her decision here. The First Amendment was written for people like her who don't hold the majority opinion.
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Das true,,, but as I said to someone else,, others (and her school, or a Viet vet) have (or should have) the right to crack back on her and protest her. Just because she's in the minority and can protest doesn't or shouldn't mean she is protected from crack backs. I thought the Viet vet got the worst of the whole situation. What about the FREAKING First Amendment for the Viet vet???? :confused:
 
Originally posted by Lewis
I think my statement may have been misinterpeted. I don't disagree with her right to protest, I totally agree with that. I just don't agree with her using her basketball team as a platform to do it. One she puts on that uniform and they walk out of that locker room, she should not be expressing her political views. Now if she pickets for 10 hours before game or 10 hour after, that is her business and I would fight for her right to do it. But it is almost like using your job to make a protest. <br><br> She is at a college, so I am sure it is not hard to get a student organzation together and protest whatever they want. At the school I go to, there is a place we call yell alley, almost every day someone is there protesting, preaching, or trying to raise money for some good cause, and again I defend their right to do it, but when I pay $10 (or whatever a ticket costs) to go see a basketball game, I should not have to see there protest there, esp. when they are in a secure area (the court) where no one can protest back. In yell alley, if I don't like someone's protest, I can confront them, yell back, wave a flag in front of them, debate them, or even run their arse off, etc. But as a player in the game, you cannot confront her (althought 1 veitnom vet did) Securty will run to her aid (like they did); It is one thing to disagree with something, another to disrespect it. I wonder if she disagrees with the coach, does she turn her back on him???? And if she does, will they call that free speech, or will they use their free speech to bench her or kick her arse off the team.
<br><br>If they allow her to do it on the court( which I don't agree) , at least they should allow other protesters on the court also during the national anthem . And if they surrounded her with flags, so be it.
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Lewis im glad you atleast agree that she has the right to do this,but the fact that they stop a vietnam vet from confronting her in my opinion was the right thing to do.
The only thing that would have become of that is a grown@ssman attacking a girl(what point would he have prove)
This is clearly not what she wanted to do,just a silent protest.
I don't know what age you are but what i do know is,coming up in the 60's/70's we protested in every venue there was.
From sports arena's to the state capitol and bringing down the american flag to put up a liberation one was common place.
It amaze's me that these same people who benefitted from these acts of protest now are condemning our youth when they follow what is our lead.
Now we want to but a criteria on how to protest(unbelieveable)
We worn not only black bands but dressed entirely in black for weeks or a set day to protest .
We sat out in the hallway of the school,caferteria and office whatever it took to voice our opinion and bring attention to what we though was unjust.
Hell simply wearing an afro was a protest,but we did it and thank god we did
If alot of folks hadn't done these things we'd still be in separate schools and sitting our but in the back of the bus.
Now thats what freedom of speech did for me, i don't know about the rest of you and i didn't need a gun.

I digress.....So i guess the three brotha's in the olympic's weren't representing america while they dissed the flag huh ? :smh: :smh:
 
Why should a Vietnam vet be allowed to come on the floor, where NO ONE is allowed outside of the basketball players and referees at the time, and stand in her face with a flag? That's not protest, that's just looking for a reason to start trouble and trying to prove a point. Like I said, these same "so-called" freedoms that everybody here claim that the flag stands for, she's exercising. If the school that OWNS the uniform doesn't have a problem with it, then nobody else should. Hell leave it to the way some of ya'll think about conformity, we'd probably still be slaves.
 
dacontinent,

Your "major corporation" firing you for your speech ain't the same as governmental punishment for speech. The Constitution doesn't control your private "major corporation", but it does control the gov't.

We simply need to learn to be more tolerant of those who disagree with our views regarding these political protests.
 



Who determines whether or not his issues were for a big cause or not? You. That is your opinion. In his mind...and the minds of many others..it may have been a major issue.

Originally posted by sophandros


It's not a race issue here, the Chris Jackson thing was at a different time (pre-9/11, etc) and the mood of the country was different. His protest wasn't taken up by many others because, let's face it, it was not and is not a big cause. This war is.

Therein lies the difference.
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Re: Disrespect is what she is doing

Originally posted by ALCORNITE 86
Tell her to go to Iraq and become a Human Shield and she if she survives when some Steel Rain drop on her azz from the ones who allow her the freedom to do that stupid schnit.

That's her freedom and right that has been provided for by many who have lost their lives defending that flag.
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Man, she is not disrespecting the flag.

She is protesting because her conscience is bothering her. And everyone in America know she is speaking the truth when she give her reasons to protest.

It just amazes me to see people go against her or anyone who use the American flag to get the attention.

She is using her right as an American to protest and the freedom of speech. It's ironic these so called patriotic Americans only protest when someone else protest America's inequalities.

I wonder why they don't have the iniative to protest Americas' racisim. Could it be maybe they agree with the injustice that exists here America?

Why can't they see the illogic of spending 4 billions dollars on useless war and a estimated possible 100 billion dollars to rebuild Iraq???

I wonder why these so call patriots can't see that money could be used here in the Delta to build infrastructure to recruit hi tech industry to the Delta? Some people in the Delta don't have running water. Some are still taking bath's in a no.10 tubs!!

I am a vet, volunteered for military service. It's one thing I noticed when I returned to the civilian world about being Black in America.

And that is I'm white enough to serve and fight for this country but I ain't white enough to be hired in the top positions in corporate America no matter what your qualifications are.
 
Originally posted by unknown1
Why should a Vietnam vet be allowed to come on the floor, where NO ONE is allowed outside of the basketball players and referees at the time, and stand in her face with a flag? That's not protest, that's just looking for a reason to start trouble and trying to prove a point. Like I said, these same "so-called" freedoms that everybody here claim that the flag stands for, she's exercising. If the school that OWNS the uniform doesn't have a problem with it, then nobody else should. Hell leave it to the way some of ya'll think about conformity, we'd probably still be slaves.
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AND THAT IS PRECIELY WHY SHE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO DO IT. IN YOUR WORDS "NO ONE is allowed outside of the basketball players and referees at the time" and you are right, basketball players, Refs, Etc NOT PROTESTERS That veteran did not touch her, so what was the problem. You said he was trying to prove a point, you are right, and that's what she is doing to. (NO difference) That's what protester do. I am sure that her actions offended and angered him as much or more than his actions angered her. But she was ( and her platform) was protected by security, security thier for (and paid for) for the basketball game, not a protest. When he protested, they threw him out, and they should have threw her out too if that is the policy.<br><br>BTW, just because the school made a "safe" statement, don't make it right.
 
Is there any other nation that worships SYMBOLS more than the U.S.?

As I heard Dr. Harry Edwards say last night on ESPN,
"With everything going on at this time, this incident is minor in the grand scope of things."

I think that too often, folks get "wrapped up" in the flag, as opposed to embracing what it represents. These neo-conservatives love to drape themselves in the stars and stripes. I helps to support their own warped belief that they are somehow more patriotic than anyone else. They do the same with the Holy Bible.

It's a petty incident that no one will remember in two months if Bushy has his way with this pending conflict.
 
She is proving a LEGAL point that she CAN prove because she is where she is SUPPOSED to be at the time. NO VETS NOR ANYONE ELSE are allowed to go on the floor, regardless of WHY they are there. So it has nothing to do with who is trying to prove what point and why. If he wanted to stand in the bleachers and hold his flag in her face, then fine, who cares. But when he walks ONTO the floor, PAST security guards, and HOLDS A FLAG IN HER FACE, that is NOT the proper way of handling the situation. And for the record this is NOT the first time that a player has turned away from the flag during the star spangled banner. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with her turning away from the flag if she wants to. She's exercising a LEGAL right to turn away from the flag. Now when it becomes legal for the vet to run onto the floor and stand in between players in their lineup, then maybe your point will be valid. That's like me going and having a sit-in in the Governors office to protest him bring back the confederate flag here in GA, rather than me turning away from the flag when people salute it. One instance i'd go to jail, one instance I wouldn't.
 
PBLA,<br>
I still think you miss my point, I agree with everything you said. BUT MY POINT IS JUST NOT DURING A GAME AS A BASKETBALL PLAYER.<Br>For example, let her rent/obtain the gym and have an anti war protest, fine. If she likes turnig her back on the flag, well let her go hang a flag in front of the student union and stand their all day with her back turned all day, fine.<br><br> Here is another way to make my point, the rights of all protesters should be protected, If they allow a anti war protest on the court, they should also allow a pro war (do people have a right to agree with the war) protest on the court. Either both, or neither.
 
The Truth Is

We are at a critical point today, tomorrow and the next day. Right, Wrong or whatever, there will be lives lost when this war occurs and bodies will come home with the flag that she turns her back on draped over many of coffins. We have lost (killed) more soldiers today than the entire 1990-1991 Gulf Campaign. Those soldiers died because they VOLUNTEERED to serve this country. It was their choice to choose the military.

Just support the men and women who are deployed around the world.
 
Re: The Truth Is

Originally posted by ALCORNITE 86
We are at a critical point today, tomorrow and the next day. Right, Wrong or whatever, there will be lives lost when this war occurs and bodies will come home with the flag that she turns her back on draped over many of coffins.
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Is that not indeed what this young lady's personal protest is about? That goes back to my post about worshipping symbols. What is more important here...a flag...or the lifeless body of a casualty of war in a coffin, that the flag will be draped over as you stated? :confused:
 
The Bodies and the Flag

I have friends, family members, classmates who are in the Middle East not by choice but because they chose a profession or way of life that may cause them to come home in a coffin.


She can protest all she wants and that is the freedom that she has.

There are over 200,000 soldiers in the Middle East; there is another 37,000 here in Korea. WE do not need to see or hear about why the war is wrong or unjust. We need the support of the American people because we made a choice.
 
Originally posted by Lewis
PBLA,<br>
I still think you miss my point, I agree with everything you said. BUT MY POINT IS JUST NOT DURING A GAME AS A BASKETBALL PLAYER.<Br>For example, let her rent/obtain the gym and have an anti war protest, fine. If she likes turnig her back on the flag, well let her go hang a flag in front of the student union and stand their all day with her back turned all day, fine.<br><br> Here is another way to make my point, the rights of all protesters should be protected, If they allow a anti war protest on the court, they should also allow a pro war (do people have a right to agree with the war) protest on the court. Either both, or neither.
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I understand what you are saying, but the purpose of a protest is to get one's attention. Her protest is a legal protest. If she protested like you outlined above, then it probally would not recieve any attention.
 
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