Oscar Robertson criticizes defense, or lack there of, against Steph Curry


PsychoJag said:
6'9 vs 7'1........And again you're wrong. Reed was 6'9. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/reedwi01.html

It's funny folks talking about how "soft" the players are but yet these athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger. It's common sense. Skill is skill. Again you folks are quick to point out the advantages of today's game but fail to point out the advantages the great players of earlier years enjoyed. I'd take a young Shaq over Kareem any day of the week and I'd take Steph Curry over Oscar Robinson.
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Juke, Alot of these players have better skills at the big man position. The guards are about the same. But when you say stronger. I am a huge Durant fan. But he aint strong at all. He aint weak weak. But he don't know how to post up and back anyone down like he should when his 3 aint falling. There are few physical specimen guys out there like Westbrook, Lebron of course, Carmelo. But let's not act like there are a bunch of super strong guys out there because the game has changed. It don't pay for you to get cut like Karl Malone, Rick Mahorn, etc. No Maurice Lucas mofos who would clear you out the paint. Most of these kids are FIT. But they are mostly lean. Cousins and the Jimmy Butler kid are cut. Back in the day all the PF and some SFs who were just athletic were cut or muscular. The PF was the enforcer. No such thing now. Everyone is a stretch 4. Poor SF position is lost now along with the Center position.

The big men are the difference. More tall shooters. Tim Hardaway in his prime and Zeke would go by these guards just like some are doing now. The only advantage I see now is the range the big men can shoot and of course they handle the ball more than big men would have ever tried. It's a shooting league now. Instead of folks wanting to be high flying rim dunking cats like the old days. Kids aspire to shoot fade away 3s. Hell there aint even any Chris Webber type PF any more. But hey they got the game they wanted. So the kids have to develop for the way Bball is played today.
 
JR said:
Juke, Alot of these players have better skills at the big man position. The guards are about the same. But when you say stronger. I am a huge Durant fan. But he aint strong at all. He aint weak weak. But he don't know how to post up and back anyone down like he should when his 3 aint falling. There are few physical specimen guys out there like Westbrook, Lebron of course, Carmelo. But let's not act like there are a bunch of super strong guys out there because the game has changed. It don't pay for you to get cut like Karl Malone, Rick Mahorn, etc. No Maurice Lucas mofos who would clear you out the paint. Most of these kids are FIT. But they are mostly lean. Cousins and the Jimmy Butler kid are cut. Back in the day all the PF and some SFs who were just athletic were cut or muscular. The PF was the enforcer. No such thing now. Everyone is a stretch 4. Poor SF position is lost now along with the Center position.

The big men are the difference. More tall shooters. Tim Hardaway in his prime and Zeke would go by these guards just like some are doing now. The only advantage I see now is the range the big men can shoot and of course they handle the ball more than big men would have ever tried. It's a shooting league now. Instead of folks wanting to be high flying rim dunking cats like the old days. Kids aspire to shoot fade away 3s. Hell there aint even any Chris Webber type PF any more. But hey they got the game they wanted. So the kids have to develop for the way Bball is played today.
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Karl Malone, Antonio/Dale Davis and David Robinson are pretty much the only cats who were really cut back in the day. Mahorn wasn't really cut.
 
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We're talking about physiques now?

It's getting ridiculous.

Someone on FB said that there were no great perimeter defenders in the NBA, and then preceded to include Tracy McGrady as one of the great defenders who could lock up Curry. Lol!

Curry is just better than whatever the opposing team devises in an attempt to curtail him.

Like I said, the great ones just can flat out beat you regardless. That's what Curry is doing now.
 
jag4life said:
Karl Malone, Antonio/Dale Davis and David Robinson are pretty much the only cats who were really cut back in the day. Mahorn wasn't really cut.
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Throw in Anthony Mason as well. Mahorn wasn't cut like Malone. But he was built like a true power forward for that era. Otis Thorpe as well. Kevin Willis as a Center/Forward. There were plenty. You just have to think about them.
 
Kendrick said:
We're talking about physiques now?

It's getting ridiculous.

Someone on FB said that there were no great perimeter defenders in the NBA, and then preceded to include Tracy McGrady as one of the great defenders who could lock up Curry. Lol!

Curry is just better than whatever the opposing team devises in an attempt to curtail him.

Like I said, the great ones just can flat out beat you regardless. That's what Curry is doing now.
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Not that I don't think Curry is great, because he is, but let's not pretend that the NBA didn't change the defensive rules 3 seasons ago to allow teams to essentially play illegal defense. The NBA used to be a 1:1 defensive league--until a player drove to the paint--and defensive 3 seconds was called on a regular basis. Nowadays, defensive 3 seconds is rarely called even though the behavior of living in the paint has increased in occurrence. This has given life to small ball and has allowed smaller teams to play faster and shoot more 3--which is their advantage.

This is why the old heads are taking this stance with Curry. I don't think they mean it personally, but with the amount of moving screens, illegal defensive schemes and such, the league has sort of washed away the perceived aura of playing hard nose defense. The league does NOT want players to play hard nose defense. Otherwise, why create the rules in the first place which have essentially prevented coaches from developing better schemes?

Curry is effective because he's a great shooter and can create his shot off the dribble-- Pure and simple. But if you institute the rules of 4-5 years ago, and start calling the moving screens and defensive 3 seconds (a-la-Draymond Green basketball), Curry's effectiveness would start to be minimized, because there is no way a coach could hide him defensively, when he has to guard his man 1:1. Essentially, he would play only positional/match-up minutes.

This excerpt explains it all:

The Warriors slotting Green at center during the highest-leverage minutes is really just the logical end-game of a decade-long evolution that started with foundation-shaking rule changes. Scrapping the old illegal defense rules freed teams to play zone, and that turned every post entry pass into an exercise of needle-threading. Defenses could stick one guy in front of a post-up brute, one guy behind him to snuff out the lob pass and a third defender nearby just in case that brute spun into some unexpected position. Timofey Mozgov could have been Hakeem Olajuwon trying to post up Iguodala during the Finals, and it wouldn't have mattered; the Cavs couldn't even pass him the ball. "If you can't make an entry pass to a 7-footer posting up my 6-6 guy, then why wouldn't I go small?" asked Bucks coach Jason Kidd.
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The past is over and no one playing in the NBA today gives a rat ass about what someone who played in the past thinks and neither do I. I was a fan then and I'm fan now of the current players. The times have changed. The Big O is probably just jealous of the money being made in today's game.
 
PsychoJag said:
Dude Kareem was 225 pounds. Shaq was 325 since you bring up physicality soooooo much who you think would be more physical???? He had a go to shot because he was being D'd up on folks 6'9 while he was 7'2. Hell Pistol Pete averaged 50 points a game in college but guess what???? I'd take Allen Iverson and Russell Westbrook before him. I don't care what The Big O did. He averaged a triple double against lesser skilled players and smaller players than in today's game.
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So everyone in the league today is 6-6 and above? So I guess Robert Parish, Mark Eaton, Akeem, Ralph Sampson, Kevin McHale, Roy Tarpley, were all 6-9 that guarded Kareem. What Basketball was you watching? Parish 7foot, Mark Eaton 7foot 4, Ralph Sampson 7foot 4, Akeem 7foot, Kevin McHale, 6 foot 11 with the wing span of a person 7foot2. Artis Gilmore 7 foot 2, Roy Tarpley 7 foot, Moses 6 foot 10, Caldwell Jones 7 Foot, Bill Walton 6 foot 11, James Edwards 7 foot, Jack Sikma 6 foot 11, Bob Lanier 6 foot 11 Wow! These are the guys that guard Kareem, but I guess all of them were 6 foot 9 and that included Ralph Sampson that was a legitimate 7-4. Do research before you comment. In today's game Dwight Howard is considered one of the NBA's best centers. Do you want him guarding Shaq, Kareem, Akeem or Moses Malone? I don't think so!

There are small players then and small players today. You say the players are more skilled today, please! Most of them cannot dribble the basketball without palming. And god knows, if not for the three point shoot, most of them would not have any game since most of them have no dribble or post game, so all some of them know what to do is spot up and shoot. I can see the guys trying to guard Isaiah Thomas or Allen Iverson today and you are not allow to touch them or go to the basket uncontested.

I would take Isaiah Thomas before Pistol Pete, Allen Iverson and Russell Westbrook any day. For some reason, it is a crime to mention Thomas as one of the greatest. If you read my post, I gave credit to Kobe and D-Wade because they could have played in any era, tough and plenty of heart, more than James or especially that soft Durrant who should not be mentioned in the same breath as James, Kobe or D-Wade. Durrant is not even the best player on his team, that goes to Westbrook, who by the way could have played in the 80's as well.

Every era has great players, and just because the era's are different, does not mean that era is not better.
 
wahines said:
So everyone in the league today is 6-6 and above? So I guess Robert Parish, Mark Eaton, Akeem, Ralph Sampson, Kevin McHale, Roy Tarpley, were all 6-9 that guarded Kareem. What Basketball was you watching? Parish 7foot, Mark Eaton 7foot 4, Ralph Sampson 7foot 4, Akeem 7foot, Kevin McHale, 6 foot 11 with the wing span of a person 7foot2. Artis Gilmore 7 foot 2, Roy Tarpley 7 foot, Moses 6 foot 10, Caldwell Jones 7 Foot, Bill Walton 6 foot 11, James Edwards 7 foot, Jack Sikma 6 foot 11, Bob Lanier 6 foot 11 Wow! These are the guys that guard Kareem, but I guess all of them were 6 foot 9 and that included Ralph Sampson that was a legitimate 7-4. Do research before you comment. In today's game Dwight Howard is considered one of the NBA's best centers. Do you want him guarding Shaq, Kareem, Akeem or Moses Malone? I don't think so!

There are small players then and small players today. You say the players are more skilled today, please! Most of them cannot dribble the basketball without palming. And god knows, if not for the three point shoot, most of them would not have any game since most of them have no dribble or post game, so all some of them know what to do is spot up and shoot. I can see the guys trying to guard Isaiah Thomas or Allen Iverson today and you are not allow to touch them or go to the basket uncontested.

I would take Isaiah Thomas before Pistol Pete, Allen Iverson and Russell Westbrook any day. For some reason, it is a crime to mention Thomas as one of the greatest. If you read my post, I gave credit to Kobe and D-Wade because they could have played in any era, tough and plenty of heart, more than James or especially that soft Durrant who should not be mentioned in the same breath as James, Kobe or D-Wade. Durrant is not even the best player on his team, that goes to Westbrook, who by the way could have played in the 80's as well.

Every era has great players, and just because the era's are different, does not mean that era is not better.
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I don't know what you have against Durant, but he's one of the top 3 or 4 players in the world, and is one of the great players over the last two decades.
 
wahines said:
So everyone in the league today is 6-6 and above? So I guess Robert Parish, Mark Eaton, Akeem, Ralph Sampson, Kevin McHale, Roy Tarpley, were all 6-9 that guarded Kareem. What Basketball was you watching? Parish 7foot, Mark Eaton 7foot 4, Ralph Sampson 7foot 4, Akeem 7foot, Kevin McHale, 6 foot 11 with the wing span of a person 7foot2. Artis Gilmore 7 foot 2, Roy Tarpley 7 foot, Moses 6 foot 10, Caldwell Jones 7 Foot, Bill Walton 6 foot 11, James Edwards 7 foot, Jack Sikma 6 foot 11, Bob Lanier 6 foot 11 Wow! These are the guys that guard Kareem, but I guess all of them were 6 foot 9 and that included Ralph Sampson that was a legitimate 7-4. Do research before you comment. In today's game Dwight Howard is considered one of the NBA's best centers. Do you want him guarding Shaq, Kareem, Akeem or Moses Malone? I don't think so!

There are small players then and small players today. You say the players are more skilled today, please! Most of them cannot dribble the basketball without palming. And god knows, if not for the three point shoot, most of them would not have any game since most of them have no dribble or post game, so all some of them know what to do is spot up and shoot. I can see the guys trying to guard Isaiah Thomas or Allen Iverson today and you are not allow to touch them or go to the basket uncontested.

I would take Isaiah Thomas before Pistol Pete, Allen Iverson and Russell Westbrook any day. For some reason, it is a crime to mention Thomas as one of the greatest. If you read my post, I gave credit to Kobe and D-Wade because they could have played in any era, tough and plenty of heart, more than James or especially that soft Durrant who should not be mentioned in the same breath as James, Kobe or D-Wade. Durrant is not even the best player on his team, that goes to Westbrook, who by the way could have played in the 80's as well.

Every era has great players, and just because the era's are different, does not mean that era is not better.
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Yeah there were way more bigs back then than it is now. Traditional bigs at that. It is a smaller league if you look at the rosters.
 
Blacknbengal said:
I agree, but the way the league rules are on hand checks and such has cause the game to go this way. Cause back in my day, Curry would be black and blue by the time he left the court. He would be my color. I promise you that.
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the league will have to reinstitute hand checking to slow Curry down some. He's breaking the game. I expect them to do this. Hand checking is why big men ruled back in the day.
Curry will still be great, he's unguardable but it may make it 'fair'.
 
Hand checking won't do much, especially against a guy who has the handles Curry does.

Hand checking really didn't stop or slow down the best players in the game anyway.
 
Kendrick said:
I don't know what you have against Durant, but he's one of the top 3 or 4 players in the world, and is one of the great players over the last two decades.
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Dude, I will repeat, Durant is not even the best player on his team, that title goes to Westbrook. Top Three of four, let's see. Right now, I would take James, Curry, Westbrook, Anthony Davis, Leonard of the Spurs, the underrated Green of the Warriors. I just named six players I would take before him. He is one the good players of the last two decades, but not one of the greats. We all know Westbrook is the heart and soul of that team and I would take him before Westbrook.

I hope you are not putting him ahead of Kobe and D-Wade when they were in their prime, if you are, then something is wrong. Now those two cats, in the 90's would have given Jordan a run for his money and then some. What have Jordan done if he had two competitors that was not only athletically on his level, but just as tough as he was? Amazing that this never came up when the NBA was not really strong in the 90's for Jordan, but everyone is picking on Curry who is a great person that has game.
 
Kendrick said:
Hand checking won't do much, especially against a guy who has the handles Curry does.

Hand checking really didn't stop or slow down the best players in the game anyway.
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That may be true. Because Isaiah Thomas, Tim Hardaway, Allen Iverson, Tiny Archbald had incredible handles and crossovers and hand checking never slowed them down either. You people act like Curry is the only person that had crazy handles, Look at Thomas, Hardaway, Iverson, Pistol Peat, Tiny Archabald, Rod Strickland, that had crazy handles, and Strickland is underrated.
 



wahines said:
Dude, I will repeat, Durant is not even the best player on his team, that title goes to Westbrook. Top Three of four, let's see. Right now, I would take James, Curry, Westbrook, Anthony Davis, Leonard of the Spurs, the underrated Green of the Warriors. I just named six players I would take before him. He is one the good players of the last two decades, but not one of the greats. We all know Westbrook is the heart and soul of that team and I would take him before Westbrook.

I hope you are not putting him ahead of Kobe and D-Wade when they were in their prime, if you are, then something is wrong. Now those two cats, in the 90's would have given Jordan a run for his money and then some. What have Jordan done if he had two competitors that was not only athletically on his level, but just as tough as he was? Amazing that this never came up when the NBA was not really strong in the 90's for Jordan, but everyone is picking on Curry who is a great person that has game.
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I have to agree with this. I think Westbrook took that title last year and has not slowed down. That's why Durant could go to the Warriors and have little problem with it because he's deferring to Westbrook now in OKC

They can't win a title together but they are probably both Top 10.
 
I watched a video titled "Michael Jordan vs Pistons Defense". I might have seen 2 attempted hand checks. Never affected Jordan. What did affect him was the double and triple teams and the Pistons packing in it when he drove and slapping at him. He still scored a bunch but had he passed out to the open shooter (Hodges/Pippen) more they would have killed the Pistons. If a team tries that against the Warriors the arena will be raining 3s even more than usual.
 
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wahines said:
Dude, I will repeat, Durant is not even the best player on his team, that title goes to Westbrook. Top Three of four, let's see. Right now, I would take James, Curry, Westbrook, Anthony Davis, Leonard of the Spurs, the underrated Green of the Warriors. I just named six players I would take before him. He is one the good players of the last two decades, but not one of the greats. We all know Westbrook is the heart and soul of that team and I would take him before Westbrook.

I hope you are not putting him ahead of Kobe and D-Wade when they were in their prime, if you are, then something is wrong. Now those two cats, in the 90's would have given Jordan a run for his money and then some. What have Jordan done if he had two competitors that was not only athletically on his level, but just as tough as he was? Amazing that this never came up when the NBA was not really strong in the 90's for Jordan, but everyone is picking on Curry who is a great person that has game.
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The only player I would take over KD in the league is LeBron.

KD is 6-foot-11 and can do everything that the elite guards and wings can do -- but supremely better

He will go down as one of the greats of all-time when he's done.

Either you're looking for attention or just being dense, like always,for the hell of it.
 
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wahines said:
That may be true. Because Isaiah Thomas, Tim Hardaway, Allen Iverson, Tiny Archbald had incredible handles and crossovers and hand checking never slowed them down either. You people act like Curry is the only person that had crazy handles, Look at Thomas, Hardaway, Iverson, Pistol Peat, Tiny Archabald, Rod Strickland, that had crazy handles, and Strickland is underrated.
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Nobody said Curry was the only PG who had handles, dude.

And before you go rattle off the names of every player who ever played in the NBA, all I said was that Curry's handles would negate any attempts to hand check him. Dassit.
 
Kendrick said:
The only player I would take over KD in the league is LeBron.

KD is 6-foot-11 and can do everything that the elite guards and wings can do -- but supremely better

He will go down as one of the greats of all-time when he's done.

Either you're looking for attention or just being dense, like always,for the hell of it.
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Right. KD is almost unguardable.
 
I hate when older people do this. It's not the athlete's fault for the era that they play in. You think folks haven't been picking Curry up from the foul line Oscar???? They have and he drops them off too. Just give the man his credit and stop being crotchety and bitter.
 
Devil's Gun Trigger Man said:
I hate when older people do this. It's not the athlete's fault for the era that they play in. You think folks haven't been picking Curry up from the foul line Oscar???? They have and he drops them off too. Just give the man his credit and stop being crotchety and bitter.
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Here's the other thing folks keep forgetting about aggressively guarding Curry. THE WARRIORS HAVE CATS THAT MAKE YOU PAY FOR THAT!!!!
Thompson, Green, Iguodala, Livingston, Speights, Barbosa, Bogut, etc.

The Warriors are a super-speed version of the Spurs model: Build through the draft, acquire free agents that fit in the system, share the ball, etc.
 
wahines said:
And what would Shaq do if he could not dunk, because that was his best shot? Kareem had a go to shot and shot at least 70% from the line while Shaq, like Wilt could not shoot free-throws. He also led the league in block shot and and rebounds, which the young Shaq never did in his career. Tell me what advantages the players from yesterday had? Please tell me! The players of today are bigger, stronger, faster and want a whistle blown every time the defender sneezes on them. Especially that soft Durrant and softy Dirk. Heck, Durrant is not even the best player on his team, that title goes to Westbrook. Now if you mentioned Kobe who is today's killer, along with D-Wade, then you are talking about players that could have played in any era!

The Big O was the master of the triple double, is Steph doing that? No! But if you read my post, I do not slight Steph's game, he can not only shoot, but now is developing a go to the basket game and the rest of the NBA should be very scared of him.
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Oscar did it vs less athletics white dudes. Lol.
 
Kendrick said:
The only player I would take over KD in the league is LeBron.

KD is 6-foot-11 and can do everything that the elite guards and wings can do -- but supremely better

He will go down as one of the greats of all-time when he's done.

Either you're looking for attention or just being dense, like always,for the hell of it.
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I am taking Anthony Davis over KD. A matter of fact, I would take Westbrook over KD.
 
coldsweat said:
Not that I don't think Curry is great, because he is, but let's not pretend that the NBA didn't change the defensive rules 3 seasons ago to allow teams to essentially play illegal defense. The NBA used to be a 1:1 defensive league--until a player drove to the paint--and defensive 3 seconds was called on a regular basis. Nowadays, defensive 3 seconds is rarely called even though the behavior of living in the paint has increased in occurrence. This has given life to small ball and has allowed smaller teams to play faster and shoot more 3--which is their advantage.

This is why the old heads are taking this stance with Curry. I don't think they mean it personally, but with the amount of moving screens, illegal defensive schemes and such, the league has sort of washed away the perceived aura of playing hard nose defense. The league does NOT want players to play hard nose defense. Otherwise, why create the rules in the first place which have essentially prevented coaches from developing better schemes?

Curry is effective because he's a great shooter and can create his shot off the dribble-- Pure and simple. But if you institute the rules of 4-5 years ago, and start calling the moving screens and defensive 3 seconds (a-la-Draymond Green basketball), Curry's effectiveness would start to be minimized, because there is no way a coach could hide him defensively, when he has to guard his man 1:1. Essentially, he would play only positional/match-up minutes.

This excerpt explains it all:
Click to expand...

Good points that certain people on this board that say know Basketball don't see that.
 
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