Oh Well, Artest...

[northern tiger]

Those fans were in the wrong. A cup was thrown at Artest because of his perception of being an oddball. Stephen Jackson should have received the season long ban. Even though Artest was defending himself, he and the other Pacers had bad intentions with their punches. If they was trying to help their boy, that's undertandable. BUT THEY WAS TRYIN" TO KNOCK NIKKA"S OUT!!!! The Pacers that were not involved in the melee were even pummelled with different objects. That chair being thrown by a fan was not necessary. True justice would be served if they could identify the unruly participants and have them prosecuted as well.

 

[Lewis]

What Stern can do, and should do publicly, with regard to the fan's part in all of this is cite the inappropriate fan behavior in this incident (in his press conferences, and elsewhere), state that under no uncertain terms inappropriate fan behavior will not be tolerated, that fans doing so will be removed from the arenas, banned from future games if the condition dictates, that the NBA will press local authorities to take warranted actions against those persons to the fullest extent of the law, and that the NBA will support its players (with any and all action requested of it) if a situation occurs where a player(s) chooses to persue legal action against a fan(s) due to some incident.

Stern and the NBA should also publicly annouce any increase in security procedures that result from this that are designed to protect the players.

He needs to show, at least, some public "even-handedness" about this incident with respect to the reponsiblity of all of the parties.

Regards.

All the things you listed are nice, but he can't really enforce much of that, so until he gets all his "ducks in a row", I don't blame him for not saying much now about that. He would really look stupid to go out and say a bunch of stuff that he cannot do. The local authorities have said that it will take them 2 weeks to sort this out. We already know who the players are, and they have been been identified and thier role is clear, and the leauge has very clear rules about a player not going into the stands.

Lot's have posted (and other I talked to have said) that they would have done the same thing. So we talked about that in class today. THe conversation came down to, just because someone disrespects you, that does not give you the right to assalt them. Some people handle stuf in "ghetto" ways, and have to face the consequences. Even if someone hits you, if the danger is removed, and then later you go hit them back, you are just as guilty of assault as they are. What Artest did was not self defense, he went to get even.

I have a bigger problem with the players association, the first thing I hear from them is complaining about Artest suspension, instead of lobbying for protection for the players. IMHO, the first thing they should demand for the imediate future is 2 security guards (police, not T-shirts) to protect the visiting team.

 

[Dr. Mac]

All the things you listed are nice, but he can't really enforce much of that, so until he gets all his "ducks in a row", I don't blame him for not saying much now about that. He would really look stupid to go out and say a bunch of stuff that he cannot do. The local authorities have said that it will take them 2 weeks to sort this out. We already know who the players are, and they have been been identified and thier role is clear, and the leauge has very clear rules about a player not going into the stands.

His "public relations" stunt to defacto lay all of the blame on the players by not addressing any fan wrong doing is leading him to not do the other part of his job, and that is providing proper support for his players: enforcement is only one part of it. Although his players were clearly wrong for their actions, and I don't condone what they did, the "proper support" aspect in this cased, IMO, is pointing out the improper actions of ALL the persons involved, not just singling out the players as he is doing, implying that they were only the ones wrong. He has to let the public know, and let them know right now, that the league will protect and support its players from harm by any means necessary.

The law enforcement agencies are in charge of "criminal enforcement," but Stern could have and should still send a strong message that his players will be supported from actions detrimental to their well-being by actions like those of the Detroit fans by publicly stating now the things I mentioned in my earlier post. Otherwise, he comes across like many of the other fans who think that a player's NBA contract requires that that abuse be taken, and he sanctions "open-season" on the "labor" that produces the product that butters his bread. But then, I really don't think he cares a whole lot about that anyway because he knows that every year he's going to have a "fresh crew" knocking down the door to get into the league.

Regards.

 

[mighty hornet]

something to think about.....

What would be YOUR response if somebody just up and threw beer or anything in YOUR face?

Is Artest's reaction that much different than what yours would have been?

hmmmm.............

 

[Lewis]

Mighty Hornet, That's a good question. When I was in High School, if we were not at school, I would have jumped on them. If I was at school, I would not have jumped on them because never in a million years would I get put out of school for fighting, because my dad would have clean my clock a few times over for getting put out of school. Some Kool aid (they didn't serve beer at my school) on me don't seem so bad next to the consiqueses of getting put out of school and facing my dad.

Now that I am older and wiser, let's say a student threw a drink on me in class, well if I charge over 3 or 4 other students and jump on who I think did it (and get the wrong one at that) I hope them few punches are worth getting fired over, because i will get fired on the spot, before they even try to figure out what to do with the student. I got to let due process take it's course, if I want my job. But to some, a few punches is worth losing thier job over.

 

[mighty hornet]

Lewis,
I see your point, but you got to admit that the student/teacher relationship changes the whole dynamic of the scenario I gave. Of course, a teacher would be expected to exercise more restraint. Let's say the person who douses you is somebody you had NO relationship with, did not know, and had no prior communication with.

In the heat of the moment, in an already volatile environment as that game was, Artest's response is in line with how a whole lot of people would respond. Thing is though, a whole lot of folks won't admit it.

Artest may have acted an arse in the past, but his response Friday night (in the heat of the moment) isn't as "crazy" as folks wanna make it out to be.

 

[Mr. SWAC]

That's what I've been screaming the whole time. Commissioner needs to get a backbone and stop kissing the fans arses as if this was all Artest/NBA players' fault.

 

[Bartram]

Re: Oh Well, Artest, you dumbAZZ ...

Looks like you can finish this CD, make two more, and come up with a "best of" collection before your ass gets back on the floor next season ...

I guess since Stephen Jackson is suspended for 30 games, and Jermaine O'Neal for 25, they can "guest" on your musical ventures. Hell, Ben might even be able to fit in a verse while he's out for his six games. May as well add Anthony Johnson, too. He won't have isht to do for five games. Perhaps Reggie Miller, Chauncey Billups, Elden Campbell, and Derrick Coleman can pose for the cover on their day off. What's that title again?

When Keeping it Real Costs Your Salary?

Idiot ... :shame:

co-sign.

 

[Lewis]

I feel you Mighty Dog, but Artest was at work, and the fan is a customer, so it is more like that than you may think. Take your job. If someone threw a piece of paper or a cup at you, and you jumped over 3 or 4 people trying to get them and ended up punching the wrong person, and your boy beat the hell out of another customer, how long do you think you would be there.

 

[EB]

Let me say that Artest's foul on Wallace was a cheap shot. It was more than a hard foul. He slapped Wallace in the face. Something like that can starts fights in the streets. I have seen less than what Artest did start a fight. But....

His "public relations" stunt to defacto lay all of the blame on the players by not addressing any fan wrong doing is leading him to not do the other part of his job, and that is providing proper support for his players: enforcement is only one part of it. Although his players were clearly wrong for their actions, and I don't condone what they did, the "proper support" aspect in this cased, IMO, is pointing out the improper actions of ALL the persons involved, not just singling out the players as he is doing, implying that they were only the ones wrong. He has to let the public know, and let them know right now, that the league will protect and support its players from harm by any means necessary.

The law enforcement agencies are in charge of "criminal enforcement," but Stern could have and should still send a strong message that his players will be supported from actions detrimental to their well-being by actions like those of the Detroit fans by publicly stating now the things I mentioned in my earlier post. Otherwise, he comes across like many of the other fans who think that a player's NBA contract requires that that abuse be taken, and he sanctions "open-season" on the "labor" that produces the product that butters his bread. But then, I really don't think he cares a whole lot about that anyway because he knows that every year he's going to have a "fresh crew" knocking down the door to get into the league.

Regards.

I am co-signing this. Again Dr. Mac comes up with one of the best posts. For all of the "genious" that Stern has when it comes to public relations, he is "imprisoned" by it. He is feeling the pulse of the fans. That is probably why he focused on the players more than he did the fans this weekend. He knows that many fans do not like the actions of some players. As someone basically said on BET last night, he does not have a Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Julius Erving, David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon or too many stars who played during the '80s to fall back on when things go wrong. Albeit the NBA did not market some stars like Olajuwon. But that is another story.

Granted there is Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, and LeBron James. But in the past when there was a problem he had MJ to market. In my humble opinion he basically used MJ as a crutch. Now, I cannot partially blame him. MJ was able to sell the league and sport. But Stern ignored a lot of things that occured the past few years.

As for Dennis Rodman Stern did fine and suspend him. But when Rodman was helping the Bulls win three titles in a row during the nineties, Stern could have been tougher on him. But he knew that Rodman was an attraction.

 

[EB]

As I said before and Dr. Mac alluded to earlier, too many fans think that they are a part of the game. They are wrong. They are spectators, not participants. Too many of them think that they can say and do anything. This is a big part of the problem.

 

[mighty hornet]

I feel you Mighty Dog, but Artest was at work, and the fan is a customer, so it is more like that than you may think. Take your job. If someone threw a piece of paper or a cup at you, and you jumped over 3 or 4 people trying to get them and ended up punching the wrong person, and your boy beat the hell out of another customer, how long do you think you would be there.

First of all, it's mh, not MD.


but seriously, given your scenario of somebody throwing the stuff on me at work, I can't say it's not possible that I wouldn't respond as Artest did. And it may result in me getting the axe. But in the heat of the moment, a knee-jerk reaction, just might cause me (or anybody else for that matter) to go after somebody who attacked me. Be it at work or not. It may not be right, but it's certainly understandable!!!
Some folks are making it seem like they just can't believe Artest went after the guy.
I can believe it and I understand it!