My Pastor has a big house....

[MsJag4Jag]

Fort: to me it all seems like is from the type of mentality we grow into.

I have some folks I know who believe the preacher shouldn't have a nice diamond ring for his wife. I asked what is the limit? Should he be limited to 1 carat, a half carat, no carat but a band? They couldn't answer. They just said it was too much for these particular folks to have.

So I asked where do you draw the line at what they can have and can not. And as of yet, nobody can answer me. :nod2:

 

[docmump]

You can put it that way. But your money (once it leaves your hands) is supporting the artist, TOO.

True, but that's not my point. Now I got to play catch up on some of these posts.

 

[docmump]

So preachers shouldn't get paid either, then?

Paid. Yes, a preacher's needs should be met. But should the preacher get paid from a gospel ministry whose purpose it evangelise (sp)? No, that money should go back into the ministry.

 

[docmump]

Should you turn down a job if the employer cannot pay you?

He could volunteer but since he has to work someplace else to support himself they should not expect a lot of his time.

Two different things.

 

[docmump]

So then guiding souls as an overseer should be approached as a way to make a living?

Good Question. Lets see the answer. Still working my down...

The church should have to pay him to get his full attention?

Yes, the church should pay the preacher.

 

[docmump]

Priests in Bible days lived off the church...

I guess churches should just let the pastors live in the building and provide groceries and transportation. But then people would have a problem with that too.

Yes, the pastor should live off the church and yes people have a problem with that. Why else are we at page 4 of a very simple topic.

 

[docmump]

You don't get it. If Joe Schmoe records Gospel CD1 and Worship CD1. I buy it because I want to use it to worship God. Should he not be paid for his work. Every time the record plays...it is a record not the person. So the person who sang it is not worshipping every time I play the record.

Now, my worship and prayers are to God...not anyone else. But if I sing a song that helps you worship and I DESIGNATE it as free...that is different. But if it is my calling sing like Kathy-Taylor Brown and that is my gift, guess what I am gonna be doing...singing praises, writing new praise songs, directing choirs, making more worship songs as this my gift and my way of making a living. YES, I want to be paid and YES I WILL GET PAID.

Singing praise songs and making praise songs as a gift IS A MINISTRY too....but with the amount of time that is put into creating quality, spirit filled song selections should be compensated for....

As a minister of the gospel, I agree they should be on salary. One pastor (not mine)...said, "YES, I am on salary; they pay me so I won't steal!" It was a joke but seriously ...they should be compensated for their time. IF THEIR CHURCH deems a salary is better than have Pastor's anniversary...Pastor's appreciation,...organist's appreciate....usher board appreciation...etc...Put them on salary and then you don't have to be outside of sunday school selling cakes all year.

You don't get it. If Joe Schmoe records Gospel CD1 and Worship CD1.

What's the difference? I am assuming Music CDs.

You don't get it. If Joe Schmoe records Gospel CD1 and Worship CD1. I buy it because I want to use it to worship God. Should he not be paid for his work. Every time the record plays...it is a record not the person. So the person who sang it is not worshipping every time I play the record.

True, but the person who is listening to the CD is worshipping God. Every time he or she listens to it.

Now, my worship and prayers are to God...not anyone else.

Good now you are getting my point. Let's drive it home. Question: Should you get paid for it or profit by it?

But if I sing a song that helps you worship and I DESIGNATE it as free...that is different. But if it is my calling sing like Kathy-Taylor Brown and that is my gift, guess what I am gonna be doing...singing praises, writing new praise songs, directing choirs, making more worship songs as this my gift and my way of making a living. YES, I want to be paid and YES I WILL GET PAID.

See the question above. So we make a living off praises to God? We make a living off writing Praises to God? We make a living off directing choirs who are dedicated to God? WE make more worship songs, since God gave me this gift, just a way of making a living? And Yes you want to get paid for this?

Why did God give us these gifts? Not a way of making a living but for the glory of God."

Singing praise songs and making praise songs as a gift IS A MINISTRY too....but with the amount of time that is put into creating quality, spirit filled song selections should be compensated for....

As a minister of the gospel, I agree they should be on salary. One pastor (not mine)...said, "YES, I am on salary; they pay me so I won't steal!" It was a joke but seriously ...they should be compensated for their time. IF THEIR CHURCH deems a salary is better than have Pastor's anniversary...Pastor's appreciation,...organist's appreciate....usher board appreciation...etc...Put them on salary and then you don't have to be outside of sunday school selling cakes all year.

K, my point is not the fact that a pastor should or should not be on salary. My point is he should not have a ministry for the purpose of making a profit or having a large personal bank account.

 

[docmump]

If he/she is to survive in this world, he/she should. :lol: Come on now.
According to some of ya'll responses, some of ya'll acting like a preacher/pastor should be homeless, broke with no ambition to survive or push for a comfortable lfe in this world. And should also ONLY rely on a church to provide for them. And a writer/artist should pour back all their money into something he/she has labored for.
A pastor/preacher is STILL human. They have to make a living, just like ANY of us.
Where is the common sense in all this????
And who's to say it's not from the heart, if you receive money for it?

But he shouldn't make money off the gospel, that is my only point. Yes he can make a living by writing a book.

 

[docmump]

Funny to me is why ONLY the ministers/pastors/bishops/ and preachers are "required" to give their ALL to the "ministry". Why don't we all "sacrifice" ALL of what we have and "give" to the ministry like they did in the latter part of Acts chapter4? Why don't we trade in our Escalades for a bicycle & our manions for the cheapest shanty money can buy. Why shouldn't secular artists "give" all of their proceeds to advance ministry?
Why aren't bibles FREE? We shouldn't have to pay for the printed Word.
Why doesn't the utility company provide Free Electricity to all churches?
Shouldn't these mega-churches be built FREE of CHARGE?
Why do we pay for Sunday School Books? They should be FREE!

Because there is a cost and no one is denying the cost. What happens to the funds after the cost?

 

[CriTAUcal]

doc, you doing some serious catching up! :lol:

 

[docmump]

doc, you doing some serious catching up! :lol:

Girl... I got to... I dont want people to go away from this thread thinking we can do what we want to do. Or Make a living off the gospel. As already stated, Paul writes that we present ourselves a living scrafice. I believe people have the scrafice down, but the presenting part I believe is a little fuzzy.

 

[Fortitude]

Because there is a cost and no one is denying the cost. What happens to the funds after the cost?

I don't know what funds are cost you're talking about. If I record an album - that's my earning; if I write a sermon - that's my work & my property & if anyone wants a "copy" of it; I have a right to sell it. If I write a book about God, I have a right to publish it and the proceed thereof are again, my earnings. My point is that is seems that the opinion of some is that none of the earnings should be retained by the one who's talent led to such product.

 

[CriTAUcal]

Girl... I got to... I dont want people to go away from this thread thinking we can do what we want to do. Or Make a living off the gospel. As already stated, Paul writes that we present ourselves a living scrafice. I believe people have the scrafice down, but the presenting part I believe is a little fuzzy.

Doc, your feelings of people not receiving money from their ministries (writing books, recording music, etc.) is merely an opinion. It is not the gospel truth.

Which leads me back to my first rhetorical question: Where is the common sense in all this?

 

[docmump]

Doc, your feelings of people not receiving money from their ministries (writing books, recording music, etc.) is merely an opinion. It is not the gospel truth.

Which leads me back to my first rhetorical question: Where is the common sense in all this?

I then agree. It's an opinion.

Moderator, please.

 

[CriTAUcal]

I then agree. It's an opinion.

Moderator, please.

attitude? :lol:

 

[MsJag4Jag]

What's the difference? I am assuming Music CDs.
True, but the person who is listening to the CD is worshipping God. Every time he or she listens to it.

Good now you are getting my point. Let's drive it home. Question: Should you get paid for it or profit by it?

See the question above. So we make a living off praises to God? We make a living off writing Praises to God? We make a living off directing choirs who are dedicated to God? WE make more worship songs, since God gave me this gift, just a way of making a living? And Yes you want to get paid for this?

Why did God give us these gifts? Not a way of making a living but for the glory of God."

K, my point is not the fact that a pastor should or should not be on salary. My point is he should not have a ministry for the purpose of making a profit or having a large personal bank account.

Doc: I am the moderator and the only reason I won't close this one is because something is going to be learned in this one. I love that we are discussing it without tearing each other down. We all realize we disagree...we are just working out the fine lines... Can you hang with me?

Doc: I do get your point. I read the scripture and my interpretation of that is different from yours. I see what you're saying. You want the person to be truly CALLED by God to minister and not for the purpose of making money. Right? I am with you on that. However, I find that there are some gray spots in that theory. It is fuzzy. WHERE do YOU draw the line for how much your pastor can have, earn, enjoy especially when he has no other work/skills/job?

I want YOU to tell me because you are the one is stating what the man/woman's purpose should be. HOW do you know what GOD called the man to do? Is he ONLY to pray for the sick and give sermons on how Jesus is coming back again? You tell me since you are most vocal about it?

Does the scripture that you listed mean he can't have over enough to pay the house note, a modest car note, food, and care for his family?

 

[docmump]

attitude? :lol:

Oh, no. I dont mind. I love discussions. If I am wrong I will be the first to admit it.

 

[CriTAUcal]

Oh, no. I dont mind. I love discussions. If I am wrong I will be the first to admit it.

I'm just teasing you, doc.

 

[docmump]

Doc: I am the moderator and the only reason I won't close this one is because something is going to be learned in this one. I love that we are discussing it without tearing each other down. We all realize we disagree...we are just working out the fine lines... Can you hang with me?

Doc: I do get your point. I read the scripture and my interpretation of that is different from yours. I see what you're saying. You want the person to be truly CALLED by God to minister and not for the purpose of making money. Right? I am with you on that. However, I find that there are some gray spots in that theory. It is fuzzy. WHERE do YOU draw the line for how much your pastor can have, earn, enjoy especially when he has no other work/skills/job?

I want YOU to tell me because you are the one is stating what the man/woman's purpose should be. HOW do you know what GOD called the man to do? Is he ONLY to pray for the sick and give sermons on how Jesus is coming back again? You tell me since you are most vocal about it?

Does the scripture that you listed mean he can't have over enough to pay the house note, a modest car note, food, and care for his family?

K,
Dont mis-interpet. Yes, a Pastor can have nice things. In fact, he can have he best of things.

Doc: I am the moderator and the only reason I won't close this one is because something is going to be learned in this one. I love that we are discussing it without tearing each other down. We all realize we disagree...we are just working out the fine lines... Can you hang with me?

Yes, I can hang. Like I posted above I love this discussion as well.

Doc: I do get your point. I read the scripture and my interpretation of that is different from yours. I see what you're saying. You want the person to be truly CALLED by God to minister and not for the purpose of making money. Right? I am with you on that. However, I find that there are some gray spots in that theory. It is fuzzy. WHERE do YOU draw the line for how much your pastor can have, earn, enjoy especially when he has no other work/skills/job?

Correct. I dont draw the line. I believe that God is the owner of houses and land. I believe God can give it all, if he chooses to. If God wants a pastor to be a multi-millionaire. That is between him and God. Not Docmump.

I want YOU to tell me because you are the one is stating what the man/woman's purpose should be. HOW do you know what GOD called the man to do? Is he ONLY to pray for the sick and give sermons on how Jesus is coming back again? You tell me since you are most vocal about it?

I am the most vocal because I have an opinion. Let the Bible be OUR guide.

Does the scripture that you listed mean he can't have over enough to pay the house note, a modest car note, food, and care for his family?

The only scripture I believe that fit your example is when Jesus sent the disciples out and told them to take nothing. Let the people supply to your needs. And that is what I believe. Let the people (The Church) supply to the need.
It doesn't matter how much the house cost. If the Church can afford it, get it.

 

[MsJag4Jag]

Doc: We are here! (eye to eye) I agree with you.

 

[C.O.G.]

Maybe I missed it but I never saw what I hoped to see in this thread. I have a problem with every nationally know preacher that I know of. They are collecting much more than what is needed for the ministry. (Yes I said that). Every broadcast is an infomercial to sell a product. It does not cost as much as you may think to broadcast (not compared to donations they get).
The sermons are not about Christ,...relations, pleasing your mate, cruises, dealing with stress, making money,...all good things but not the focus of Christianity.
What I see on television should not be billed as being related to the church but the private, profit-making enterprise of the individuals. I would have no problem with that. Let them make billions. But leave the church they head out of it and only accept a salary from the church.
They bible says that the church should take care of the preacher and take care of him well. I have no trouble with millions, but as the church decides and can afford. How much is enough? How big does the home have to be?

These pastors have started a business not a church. If a pastor can not devote himself to a church that can not pay him then he should not pastor a church that can and will pay him a billion. This is not about money it is about serving God. These men have more than they can (should) ever spend. It is a pity and shame if they accept another dime. Do something for God and not money. Stop paying them and see how many will stay.

 

[nevaehinvesting]

They are collecting much more than what is needed for the ministry.

Do you KNOW the cost associated with a big ministry vs how much $$$ the ministry is collecting? Post examples.

Also, the church can NEVER have too much money. We can never be in a situation where we're generating "more money than the ministry needs." Our goal is to save the world. That cost money. Since the whole world is not saved, it's costing money right now to reach more and more people.

How much is enough? How big does the home have to be?

Maybe this equation works:
Luke 6:38 + Your understanding = the size of your blessing.

Stop paying them and see how many will stay.

You have obviously never heard one of their testimonies. 9 out of 10 wealthly pastors started of broke for the first 5, 10, 15+ years of their ministry. Though financially struggling, they all stayed faithful to to ministry during that whole time. That answers your comment about how many will stay without big $$$. They already been there, and done that.

If God measured what some of these preachers have done for the world vs what some of y'all judgmental people have done for the world, you probably would never judge them again. I mean,

#1. How many people have you helped by going to 3rd world countries 5 times per year to preach Jesus?
#2. How many people have you helped by starting drug & alcohol abuse centers? Or spousal abuse programs?
#3. How many people have you helped by rebuilding houses in your city, or taking in people with no homes?
#4. How many people have you helped by giving people jobs or training them with skills they need to find a job?
#5. How many hungry people do you feed year round, or at least at holidays?
#6. How many people have you helped just from your life as a christian?

Personally make a list of the people you've done the above for and round it to the nearest 10,000. If your number is less than 1,000,000 than you should embarrassed to speak any negative words about wealthy pastors who do 1,000 times more than you for the church.

Luke 6:38 says that when you give a lot, than a lot is given back. How much is a lot? Well, if you have God's taste in style, like I do, than that means mansions, gold, cars, etc all to God's Glory! I asked those questions because I know the these big $$$ minstries do stuff like that all the time. Instead of telling them 'good job pastor', we hate on them and think they have too much.

 

[LMBH]

Sometimes I wonder if the biggest percentage of preachers lie in those who spend their time trying to earn huge salaries or those who spend their time chasing women and sometimes men. If motivated by either, both are wrong, but it seems that accountability for the latter is rarely challenged.

 

[MsJag4Jag]

Do you KNOW the cost associated with a big ministry vs how much $$$ the ministry is collecting? Post examples.

Also, the church can NEVER have too much money. We can never be in a situation where we're generating "more money than the ministry needs." Our goal is to save the world. That cost money. Since the whole world is not saved, it's costing money right now to reach more and more people. Maybe this equation works:
Luke 6:38 + Your understanding = the size of your blessing.
You have obviously never heard one of their testimonies. 9 out of 10 wealthly pastors started of broke for the first 5, 10, 15+ years of their ministry. Though financially struggling, they all stayed faithful to to ministry during that whole time. That answers your comment about how many will stay without big $$$. They already been there, and done that.

If God measured what some of these preachers have done for the world vs what some of y'all judgmental people have done for the world, you probably would never judge them again. I mean,

#1. How many people have you helped by going to 3rd world countries 5 times per year to preach Jesus?
#2. How many people have you helped by starting drug & alcohol abuse centers? Or spousal abuse programs?
#3. How many people have you helped by rebuilding houses in your city, or taking in people with no homes?
#4. How many people have you helped by giving people jobs or training them with skills they need to find a job?
#5. How many hungry people do you feed year round, or at least at holidays?
#6. How many people have you helped just from your life as a christian?

Personally make a list of the people you've done the above for and round it to the nearest 10,000. If your number is less than 1,000,000 than you should embarrassed to speak any negative words about wealthy pastors who do 1,000 times more than you for the church.

Luke 6:38 says that when you give a lot, than a lot is given back. How much is a lot? Well, if you have God's taste in style, like I do, than that means mansions, gold, cars, etc all to God's Glory! I asked those questions because I know the these big $$$ minstries do stuff like that all the time. Instead of telling them 'good job pastor', we hate on them and think they have too much.

Very humbling...

 

[CriTAUcal]

Do you KNOW the cost associated with a big ministry vs how much $$$ the ministry is collecting? Post examples.

Also, the church can NEVER have too much money. We can never be in a situation where we're generating "more money than the ministry needs." Our goal is to save the world. That cost money. Since the whole world is not saved, it's costing money right now to reach more and more people. Maybe this equation works:
Luke 6:38 + Your understanding = the size of your blessing.
You have obviously never heard one of their testimonies. 9 out of 10 wealthly pastors started of broke for the first 5, 10, 15+ years of their ministry. Though financially struggling, they all stayed faithful to to ministry during that whole time. That answers your comment about how many will stay without big $$$. They already been there, and done that.

If God measured what some of these preachers have done for the world vs what some of y'all judgmental people have done for the world, you probably would never judge them again. I mean,

#1. How many people have you helped by going to 3rd world countries 5 times per year to preach Jesus?
#2. How many people have you helped by starting drug & alcohol abuse centers? Or spousal abuse programs?
#3. How many people have you helped by rebuilding houses in your city, or taking in people with no homes?
#4. How many people have you helped by giving people jobs or training them with skills they need to find a job?
#5. How many hungry people do you feed year round, or at least at holidays?
#6. How many people have you helped just from your life as a christian?

Personally make a list of the people you've done the above for and round it to the nearest 10,000. If your number is less than 1,000,000 than you should embarrassed to speak any negative words about wealthy pastors who do 1,000 times more than you for the church.

Luke 6:38 says that when you give a lot, than a lot is given back. How much is a lot? Well, if you have God's taste in style, like I do, than that means mansions, gold, cars, etc all to God's Glory! I asked those questions because I know the these big $$$ minstries do stuff like that all the time. Instead of telling them 'good job pastor', we hate on them and think they have too much.

And with THIS statement, A LOT of folks need to keep quiet, cause a lot of us haven't done our part (or given our all) in ministry.