philharmonic
Living History!!!
What will happen if AAMU, JSU, and Alcorn all finish with the same record?
Looks like the SWAC EAST is in shambles now!
- Thread starter philharmonic
- Start date
DAHILL
Well-Known Member
noway possible it can happen.
Tigerpride
THE Logical ONE
I think Alcorn had to win out to make that happen...which meant beating Valley on yesterday. AAMU can make reservations for Bham.
CurtDog 1971
Active Member
Yes it can. I'm not sure how the three way tie works though.
JayRob
TigaPaw
If I'm not mistaken, a three-way tie could end up between JSU, A&M and Valley.
Let's see, Valley beat A&M, A&M beat JSU and JSU defeated Valley.
Of the three teams, I'm not sure who will get the nod to go to B'ham.
Would be interesting, though.
native
SWAC Fan
JayRob, it's even worse than you think! After this weekend, it is still possible for ANY of the SWAC East teams to advance to the championship, and there are at least two possible three-ways ties:
04 November Week Ten
1. Alabama A&M: Defeated Jackson State 34-21 to claim the lead in the SWAC East with a 5-2 conference record. The only East team still in control of its own destiny, AAMU still has to play Alcorn and PVAMU at home and WILL win the East by winning those two games, regardless of what happens in the rest of the conference.
2. Mississippi Valley: Earned a chance at the SWAC East by beating Alcorn 28-25 this week. Good offense, good defense, and their refs are good for at least a touchdown in every home game, BUT they play their last remaining game on the road at Alabama State. Already beat AAMU 23-20 earlier in the season and WILL win the East if they beat ALST, AND either Alcorn or Prairie View beats AAMU, AND if JSU drops one more game.
3. Jackson State: Lost the chance to control their own destiny by getting spanked by AAMU 21-34 this weekend. Could still win the East IF Mississippi Valley loses to Alabama State, AND AAMU loses to both Alcorn and PVAMU, AND if JSU beats both Alcorn and PVAMU at home.
4. Alabama State: Beat GSU at Grambling, 35-15 to remain alive, but the only way for ALST to win the East is to beat MSVU at home, to hope that AAMU AND JSU lose BOTH of their remaining conference games, and to hope that Alcorn State loses at least one game.
5. Alcorn State: Lost the chance to control their own destiny by losing to Mississippi Valley 25-28. Still face AAMU, JSU and GSU and WILL win SWAC East by winning all three games, but ONLY IF Mississippi Valley loses to ALST.
BUT WE ARE NOT DONE, because there are at least two possible 3-way ties:
AAMU, MSVU and Alcorn OR AAMU, MSVU and JSU could all end up at 6-3 SWAC, each having beat one and lost to one of the other two. What's the tie beaker in that situation?
There is even a possible 5-way tie:
AAMU, JSU, Alcorn, ALST and MSVU could possibly finish 5-4, IF Alcorn beats AAMU and GSU but loses to JSU, JSU beats Alcorn and PVAMU, AAMU loses to both Alcorn and PVAMU, and MSVU loses to ALST. In that case the SWAC East record would presumably be used to determine the winner. Alcorn and ALST would be 1-3 and out, MSVU and AAMU would be 2-2 and out, and JSU would be 3-1 and advance with the best SWAC-East record.
Wow! Week Ten and any of the five SWAC East teams could possibly advance to the championship!
Tigerpride
THE Logical ONE
Mike, I thought points was the third tie breaker too but I am starting to recall that it is divisional wins.
Native,
I had not thought of all of these scenerios but if
(your first scenerio) Valley, AAMU and Alcorn end up 6-3 .... Valley goes!!!
(your second scenerio) AAMU, Valley, JSU---AAMU would go if points is the 3rd tie-breaker. JSU would go if divisional wins is the 3rd tie-breaker.
native
SWAC Fan
All three could not end up 6-3 because JSU and Alcorn still have to play each other which means that at least one of them will finish with no more than 5 wins. Also, if MSVU beats ALST there could possibly be a 3-way tie for second among AAMU, JSU and Alcorn at 5-4 each (assuming everyone else loses enough games), but MSVU would own a 6-3 record and advance.
However, a 5-way tie among AAMU, JSU, Alcorn, ALST and MSVU with all five teams finishing 5-4 SWAC is possible, IF Alcorn beats AAMU and GSU but loses to JSU, JSU beats Alcorn and PVAMU, AAMU loses to both Alcorn and PVAMU, and MSVU loses to ALST.
In that case the SWAC East record would presumably be used to determine the winner. Alcorn and ALST would be 1-3 and out, MSVU and AAMU would be 2-2 and out, and JSU would be 3-1 and advance with the best SWAC-East record.
native
SWAC Fan
Team Opp PF PA Diff
AAMU MSVU 20 23 -3
AAMU JSU 34 21 13
AAMU Alcorn 0 0 0
10 TTL
MSVU AAMU 23 20 3
MSVU JSU 24 29 -5
MSVU Alcorn 28 25 3
1 TTL
JSU AAMU 21 34 -13
JSU MSVU 29 24 5
JSU Alcorn 0 0 0
-8 TTL
Alcorn AAMU 25 28 -3
Alcorn MSVU 0 0 0
Alcorn JSU 0 0 0
-3 TTL
native
SWAC Fan
You are right that MSVU would go to the SCG in a 3-way with AAMU and Alcorn because they would be the only 2-0 team among the three leaders. I don't think Divisional wins or points would count unless the three leaders were all 1-1 with each other. I think I was wrong in an earlier post when I said I thought they would all end up 1-1 with each other. MSVU has already beaten both Alcorn and AAMU.
If AAMU, MSVU and JSU end up in a 3-way, I am guessing that points would be the tie-breaker because all three would then be 1-1 against each other. AAMU would indeed be on top (I think!?!).
I am guessing that the tie breaker would be *divisional* wins ONLY if all five SWAC east teams en up 5-4, which, I think, is still theoretically possible.
...fun to speculate, but it will be mighty hard for Valley to win at ALST and for Alcorn to win at both AAMU and JSU. On the other hand, stranger things have already happend this year in the WACKY SWAC!
Tigerpride
THE Logical ONE
http://www.swac.org/04-05/football/04divtiebreaker.htm
Man, I wish ya'll would read these stupid tiebreakers. Point spread is no where in this.
If I am understanding correctly, if JSU-Valley-AAMU get into a tie breaker, the tie will be broken based on thier records against AlaState and Alcorn. (To me, this is not clear)
If the tie is still not broken, they you look at the record on how they did against UAPB and the rest of the WEST..one by one. WOW
If the tie is STILL not broken, then you look at divisional record.
If the tie is STILL not broken, you go to interdivisional record (is this with or without the divisional record...because if so, you are BACK to the original record...LOL :smash: )
Man, I wish ya'll would read these stupid tiebreakers. Point spread is no where in this.
If I am understanding correctly, if JSU-Valley-AAMU get into a tie breaker, the tie will be broken based on thier records against AlaState and Alcorn. (To me, this is not clear)
If the tie is still not broken, they you look at the record on how they did against UAPB and the rest of the WEST..one by one. WOW
If the tie is STILL not broken, then you look at divisional record.
If the tie is STILL not broken, you go to interdivisional record (is this with or without the divisional record...because if so, you are BACK to the original record...LOL :smash: )
native
SWAC Fan
Tigerpride, THANK YOU for the tie-breaker reference
You are right that points do not enter into the equation.According to the SWAC reference you cited, in a three way tie, the first tie breaker is "...Head-to-head results among the tied teams..." and then "...Each team?s record vs. the team occupying the next highest position in the final regular-season standings, continuing down through the standings (divisional then non-divisional) until one team gains an advantage..." BUT "Once the ties have been reduced to two teams and then go to the two-team tie-breaker..."
I think (?!?!??) this means that in the case of a 3-way JSU-Valley-AAMU tie, the head-to-head results among the three tied teams would still be tied because each team has won a game and lost a game against the other two.
So, the next tiebreaker would be their records against the next best team in the SWAC East which will be Alcorn because AAMU has to lose one (presumably to Alcorn) to fall into the tie and ALST has to lose to MSVU for MSVU to rise up into the tie. JSU also has to beat Alcorn to stay in the tie. AAMU would have lost against both Alcorn and Valley, while MSVU and JSU would each have beaten Alcorn, so AAMU falls out, leaving JSU and MSVU in the tie.
The next tiebreaker is head to head among the two remaining tied teams. JSU beat MSVU so JSU would progress to the CSG.
Right?!?? :flippy:
Tigerpride
THE Logical ONE
Tigerpride, THANK YOU for the tie-breaker reference
According to the SWAC reference you cited, in a three way tie, the first tie breaker is "...Head-to-head results among the tied teams..." and then "...Each team?s record vs. the team occupying the next highest position in the final regular-season standings, continuing down through the standings (divisional then non-divisional) until one team gains an advantage..." BUT "Once the ties have been reduced to two teams and then go to the two-team tie-breaker..."
I think (?!?!??) this means that in the case of a 3-way JSU-Valley-AAMU tie, the head-to-head results among the three tied teams would still be tied because each team has won a game and lost a game against the other two.
So, the next tiebreaker would be their records against the next best team in the SWAC East which will be Alcorn because AAMU has to lose one (presumably to Alcorn) to fall into the tie and ALST has to lose to MSVU for MSVU to rise up into the tie. JSU also has to beat Alcorn to stay in the tie. AAMU would have lost against both Alcorn and Valley, while MSVU and JSU would each have beaten Alcorn, so AAMU falls out, leaving JSU and MSVU in the tie.
The next tiebreaker is head to head among the two remaining tied teams. JSU beat MSVU so JSU would progress to the CSG.
Right?!?? :flippy:
:nod:
It's called taking the back door.
native
SWAC Fan
:nod:
It's called taking the back door.
...and you think JSU can beat Alcorn?!?
Actually, who knows? :whatever:
JSU officially has the worst scoring defense in the SWAC and Alcorn officially has the second worst scoring defense :shame:
Tigerpride
THE Logical ONE
I won't say who can beat who at this point. We have about 5 teams who could be SWAC champ and not one is any better than the other. :read: