Lithuania beats Team USA at its best


BLUEBENGAL

BLUEBENGAL

Senior Member
http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/basketball

The United States played perhaps its best game of the Olympic tournament thus far ? and lost. Lithuania handed Team USA its second loss in four games, 94-90, on Saturday with a barrage of three-point shots and a packed-in zone defense that dared the Americans to do the same.
 
BLUEBENGAL said:
http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/basketball

The United States played perhaps its best game of the Olympic tournament thus far ? and lost. Lithuania handed Team USA its second loss in four games, 94-90, on Saturday with a barrage of three-point shots and a packed-in zone defense that dared the Americans to do the same.
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First off let me say that shooting 11-33 from the free throw line is unacceptable on any level of basketball. :shame:

They may have played better on the offensive end, but to give up 94 points is terrible. I understand that Lithuania has been playing together forever, but with the US teams athleticism strong effort should be enough. What's up with Stephon Marbury getting so much playing time. The guy shot 2 for 14 from the field and has just shown that he is not equipped for the international game. Lebron played 6 minutes and Carmelo played 10? I know that Amare Stoudamire can't shoot to save his life, but Tim Duncan can't continue to be the only player over 6'10" to get extensive playing time.

I think Larry Brown's great, but I'm starting to not just blame the players and selection committe for this thing.
 



JBlink said:
First off let me say that shooting 11-33 from the free throw line is unacceptable on any level of basketball. :shame:

They may have played better on the offensive end, but to give up 94 points is terrible. I understand that Lithuania has been playing together forever, but with the US teams athleticism strong effort should be enough. What's up with Stephon Marbury getting so much playing time. The guy shot 2 for 14 from the field and has just shown that he is not equipped for the international game. Lebron played 6 minutes and Carmelo played 10? I know that Amare Stoudamire can't shoot to save his life, but Tim Duncan can't continue to be the only player over 6'10" to get extensive playing time.

I think Larry Brown's great, but I'm starting to not just blame the players and selection committe for this thing.
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I agree with you that Marbury is playing to much and Labron and Melo should get more playing time. But I can't blame Larry Brown for this team continuing to get beat on the defensive end. If I saw one more USA player go under a screen out at the 3 point line again I think I would have trashed by big screen. Lithuania's guard were suspect at best with the ball so I don't understand why they did not continue to press.

Even if we do when the goal medal, this Olympics has been an embarrassment!!!!!!
 
CurtDog 1971 said:
I agree with you that Marbury is playing to much and Labron and Melo should get more playing time. But I can't blame Larry Brown for this team continuing to get beat on the defensive end. If I saw one more USA player go under a screen out at the 3 point line again I think I would have trashed by big screen. Lithuania's guard were suspect at best with the ball so I don't understand why they did not continue to press.

Even if we do when the goal medal, this Olympics has been an embarrassment!!!!!!
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You say you can't blame Larry Brown but is he the one not playing these dudes that wont play defense? In the previous 2 games that I watched Shawn Marion and Labron not only played better defense than Jefferson and Marbury but they played with a lot more energy on BOTH sides of the floor. Why he continues to sit these guys just doesnt make any sense to me.

I've said it before and I'll continue to repeat it. Larry Brown has something against younger players. His rotation is horrible.
 
JBlink said:
First off let me say that shooting 11-33 from the free throw line is unacceptable on any level of basketball. :shame:

They may have played better on the offensive end, but to give up 94 points is terrible. I understand that Lithuania has been playing together forever, but with the US teams athleticism strong effort should be enough. What's up with Stephon Marbury getting so much playing time. The guy shot 2 for 14 from the field and has just shown that he is not equipped for the international game. Lebron played 6 minutes and Carmelo played 10? I know that Amare Stoudamire can't shoot to save his life, but Tim Duncan can't continue to be the only player over 6'10" to get extensive playing time.

I think Larry Brown's great, but I'm starting to not just blame the players and selection committe for this thing.
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I have a question for you guys. How come Larry Brown is not taking any criticism from the way that he has coached the USA Basketball team? Don't get me wrong, the shooting and team defense was atrocious yesterday! I don't feel that he is using his personnel correctly. It took Detroit an entire NBA season to learn how to play basketball the "right way", so why should he expect these guys to pick up on his system in 2 weeks. Have you noticed, every time that we press and make the game more uptempo, we score and score at will. Our superior athleticism would dominate. Why can't we play "40 minutes of hell" i.e. like Nolan Richardson's Arkansas teams did back in the day. He should compromise his system to fit the personnel. I could understand his stance if they had an entire training camp, but these guys had 2 weeks. I don't feel he is taking any heat from the media b/c he is Larry Brown. On his interviews, all he has to say is we're not playing as a team. Well Mr. Brown, that team that you have don't fit your system, so you must adjust. He is a stubborn old-school idiot. Even his mentor Dean Smith, adusted his coaching style to his personnel! Everyone can't stand prosperity. SMH


When I first made this above statement on August 16th, people thought that I was crazy, but now you guys actually what I am talking about!
 
Who was the head coach of the Dream Team in 2000? I wonder how the Lithuania team would fare in the NBA, if they were an NBA team?
 
tgold said:
I have a question for you guys. How come Larry Brown is not taking any criticism from the way that he has coached the USA Basketball team? Don't get me wrong, the shooting and team defense was atrocious yesterday! I don't feel that he is using his personnel correctly. It took Detroit an entire NBA season to learn how to play basketball the "right way", so why should he expect these guys to pick up on his system in 2 weeks. Have you noticed, every time that we press and make the game more uptempo, we score and score at will. Our superior athleticism would dominate. Why can't we play "40 minutes of hell" i.e. like Nolan Richardson's Arkansas teams did back in the day. He should compromise his system to fit the personnel. I could understand his stance if they had an entire training camp, but these guys had 2 weeks. I don't feel he is taking any heat from the media b/c he is Larry Brown. On his interviews, all he has to say is we're not playing as a team. Well Mr. Brown, that team that you have don't fit your system, so you must adjust. He is a stubborn old-school idiot. Even his mentor Dean Smith, adusted his coaching style to his personnel! Everyone can't stand prosperity. SMH


When I first made this above statement on August 16th, people thought that I was crazy, but now you guys actually what I am talking about!
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Absolutely right!
 
tgold said:
I have a question for you guys. How come Larry Brown is not taking any criticism from the way that he has coached the USA Basketball team? Don't get me wrong, the shooting and team defense was atrocious yesterday! I don't feel that he is using his personnel correctly. It took Detroit an entire NBA season to learn how to play basketball the "right way", so why should he expect these guys to pick up on his system in 2 weeks. Have you noticed, every time that we press and make the game more uptempo, we score and score at will. Our superior athleticism would dominate. Why can't we play "40 minutes of hell" i.e. like Nolan Richardson's Arkansas teams did back in the day. He should compromise his system to fit the personnel. I could understand his stance if they had an entire training camp, but these guys had 2 weeks. I don't feel he is taking any heat from the media b/c he is Larry Brown. On his interviews, all he has to say is we're not playing as a team. Well Mr. Brown, that team that you have don't fit your system, so you must adjust. He is a stubborn old-school idiot. Even his mentor Dean Smith, adusted his coaching style to his personnel! Everyone can't stand prosperity. SMH


When I first made this above statement on August 16th, people thought that I was crazy, but now you guys actually what I am talking about!
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You make some good points Tgold. I have never been a real bid fan of Larry Brown's myself. But you have to admit, no one has really stepped up on this team other than Duncan and Iverson. I just hope something happens soon because it's not going to get any easier.
 
Larry Brown is not fooling JROCK! That boy is sick in the head. His sickness stems from more than his basketball I.Q. Stevie Wonder could see that he is NOT using the bench correctly.

The SAD part about it is, I BELIEVE THAT HE IS DOING IT ON PURPOSE! The man is a Village Idiot with some serious issues. I believe the only thing that would give him some type of mental adjustment would be a good azz kicking. Please believe that this post is as diplomatic as it will get from JROCK!
 
JROCK said:
Larry Brown is not fooling JROCK! That boy is sick in the head. His sickness stems from more than his basketball I.Q. Stevie Wonder could see that he is NOT using the bench correctly.

The SAD part about it is, I BELIEVE THAT HE IS DOING IT ON PURPOSE! The man is a Village Idiot with some serious issues. I believe the only thing that would give him some type of mental adjustment would be a good azz kicking. Please believe that this post is as diplomatic as it will get from JROCK!
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Larry Brown is a good coach...for the NBA. With the Piston he had a chance to develop that team and teach his concept for a full season. These guys are not a collection of role players...these are some of the elites in the game.

The biggest advantage we have is our athleticism. Brown should turn this into a 94 foot game with unrelenting "on ball" pressure and matchup zone traps to create turnovers. From there it's a matter of getting out and running the floor. Turn the game into a mismatch from the outset.

Remember Dream Team 1's stifling defense. This team is not as talented but it was the defense of the original Dream Team that completely destroyed teams. Chuck Daly was wise and prudent enuff to not stifle the team with set plays but allowed them to do what they did best...Play uptempo/all-star ball.
 



MikeBigg said:
Larry Brown is a good coach...for the NBA. With the Piston he had a chance to develop that team and teach his concept for a full season. These guys are not a collection of role players...these are some of the elites in the game.

The biggest advantage we have is our athleticism. Brown should turn this into a 94 foot game with unrelenting "on ball" pressure and matchup zone traps to create turnovers. From there it's a matter of getting out and running the floor. Turn the game into a mismatch from the outset.

Remember Dream Team 1's stifling defense. This team is not as talented but it was the defense of the original Dream Team that completely destroyed teams. Chuck Daly was wise and prudent enuff to not stifle the team with set plays but allowed them to do what they did best...Play uptempo/all-star ball.
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Co-sign!
 
JBlink said:
What's up with Stephon Marbury getting so much playing time. The guy shot 2 for 14 from the field and has just shown that he is not equipped for the international game.
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Marbury and a couple of others should have never been selected for this team. Not only is the 3 pt. line closer in Olympic play, they are getting open looks and still are putting up bricks. Can't blame Larry for that. :rolleyes:
 
man, some of y'all are killin' me with this Larry Brown stuff... :shame:

I agree he should lengthen his sub rotation, but he isn't to blame for Lithuania dropping 90 on this squad...these guys just don't execute like the should on D.


the US squad has been getting killed defensively the entire tourney as a collective. these guys haven't closed out on shooters the entire tourney...

these guys see a pick or a screen and forget what they're supposed to do individually.

On top of that, these guys play lousy help defense...they don't communicate with each other on the picks and back screens. Often, the defender isn't even in position in a half court set to even close out on the shooter...

doing all of those things speeds up the offensive rythym of the opposing team...When you don't dictate that tempo in the half-court sets, you can't set up the type of full court pressure that this team could potentially lay down...When that doesn't happens, we don't get the points in transition that we need.

It's not the system that's the problem; it's the execution of it that sucks...

Brown's offensive scheme for the Olympics is a modified version of the flex offense we've seen in different incarnations in the college game. It's ideal for the international game because it relies on dribble penetration and off-ball movement to find the holes in the zone for open shots...we've had more open 3's and mid-range J's than I can remember...Are these players hitting them???

Heyal no...That ain't Brown's fault...


to put this in perspective for some of you, the Maryland Terrapins are on tour in Italy right now against Italian Pro Teams in the country's top Division...they're 2-0 ....check it out:

Terps 2-0 in Italian Pro tour


these guys are essentially seeing the same types of defenses that the "Scream Team" is seeing...the difference is that these kids are playing as a team defensively...they're communicating. On offense, they're hitting the open shot...

why in the heyal can't the U.S. squad hit open shots???
 
Y'all can stop w/ the Larry Brown hating right here. :retard:

#1, Larry Brown isn't the one on the court taking a basketball ass whoopin' lol
#2, Larry Brown isn't the one on the court getting 3s drained on his azz
#3, Larry Brown isn't the one that cannot defend the <b>simple</b> pick and roll (for a long 3 for Christ's sake :rolleyes: )
#4, Larry Brown isn't the one who <b>cannot</b> <u>successfully</u> hit a mid-range jumper (notice I didn't even say consistently :emlaugh: @ USA basketball)
#5, Larry Brown isn't the one who, God forbid :rolleyes:, cannot hit a LONG range jumper :shame:
#6, Larry Brown isn't the one who cannot fathom the concept of <b>team</b> basketball :shame:
#7, Larry Brown isn't the one who doesn't have a problem w/ noting that there is no "I" in the word T-E-A-M. :lmao:

Dumb azz players yield dumb azz results :retard: . lol

There is no such thing as a "Dream Team II," "Dream Team III," ... etc. And this CURRENT cast most CERTAINLY isn't a dream team. It's a nightmare and misrepresentation of good American basketball. There was only <b>one</b> DREAM TEAM and that's the original cast back in 92. They didn't need a coach to coach. They all were <b>intelligent</b> enough to understand the team game (even ol' Mikey-ball-hogging Jordan lol). All of them.

Personally, I'm enjoying the heck out of these international teams. They play GOOD funda<b>mental</b> basketball while making the US team look like dog isht :D. I hope Italy beats'em by @ least 30. :tup: Maybe that'll be the door that opens the NBA to <b>real</b> basketball players from over the 'lantic. :D

Big props to the USA womens' team. Those ladies were correct. The uninterested guys should've viewed their games so they could understand the concept of team play. :D
 
crazylegs said:
why in the heyal can't the U.S. squad hit open shots???
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I'll answer this question for 50 points Alex. :D

Because they <b>cannot</b> shoot effectively. They cannot hit a simple free throw w/ no one in their face so how should <b>anyone</b> expect them to hit a shot when someone is flying @ them and yelling and such? :confused:

The <b>only</b> these young guys know how to do is try to mimick that And-1 bullisht and try to take 2-3 guys to the goal and pray that the ball makes it above their head for a rim rather than <b>past</b> the ball to someone who is open and can knock it down. :tup:

It's funny that me and other "elders" :rolleyes: talk about young guys who can't think fundamentally quite often in the basketball leagues that I participate in. We sit in a 2-3 packed in zone daring them to shoot but they STILL try to drive and we take charges and clamp down on D so they cannot penetrate. On O, all of us are good long range shooters (that was a warning to you MH and GR :mad: ) so we pick them (away from the ball always) to death. They look awfully stupid losing to a bunch of "old" men. lol :lol:
 
MikeBigg said:
.....

The biggest advantage we have is our athleticism. Brown should turn this into a 94 foot game with unrelenting "on ball" pressure and matchup zone traps to create turnovers. From there it's a matter of getting out and running the floor. Turn the game into a mismatch from the outset.

Remember Dream Team 1's stifling defense. This team is not as talented but it was the defense of the original Dream Team that completely destroyed teams. Chuck Daly was wise and prudent enuff to not stifle the team with set plays but allowed them to do what they did best...Play uptempo/all-star ball.
Click to expand...

Actually, Dream Team I played some half court ball very well too. But it helped that Magic was the point guard. Daly did not imposed his system on that team. That team's offense and the old Detriot Piston's offense were very different.

While Larry Brown is not the one playing, he could stuff his ego and adjust his style to the players. It is not just the players fault.
 
Actually, Dream Team I played some half court ball very well too. But it helped that Magic was the point guard. Daly did not imposed his system on that team. That team's offense and the old Detriot Piston's offense were very different.
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*smh*


how much adjustment do these cats need to hit open shots out of the offense???!!! :smh: :shame:

man, y'all act like the other squads in the olympics are pulling out this "magic bullet" defense to shut us down???


Larry Brown's offensive system works...these guys are getting open looks mid-range and beyond 3 at will...they have been during the whole tourney...It's Larry Brown's fault that these "professionals" can't hit open shots??? :rolleyes:

the last ime I checked, the jump shot was a fundemental pillar of the game....


That brings me to my next point; All the athleticism in the world is moot if you don't have the basketball I.Q. to maximize it within the coaches concept...


I mean dayumn...have any of you folks seen these guys in a typical halfcourt defensive set during this tourney??? :smh:


The women's squad does a better job of fighting though back screens and picks than these guys do...These guys don't close out on outside shooters, despite the fact that the squad has been getting torched by open 3's the entire tourney :shame: .

when they do extend the defense, they don't commuinicate enough to help the post players out on dribble penetration; the sure as heyal don't prevent the second or third cutter from getting into the lane...For you layman out there, that's bad news for whomever is playing the 4 or 5, because THEY ARE THE LAST LINE OF DEFENSE BETWEEN THE PLAYER AND THE HOOP...Why do you think Tim has been in foul trouble the entire tourney??? :smh:

I hate to be the reality check guy here, but that is BASIC SHAT...this is stuff you learn on the boys club level and develop...Those are the constants no matter who the coach is; these guys are severely lacking in that department as individuals...ALL OF THEM, save AI and Tim...

I guess Larry Brown is somehow to blame for that. also... :rolleyes:
 
I think you guys missed my point. Not criticizing Larry Brown just giving my opinion that he needs to loosen the reins on having the team play "his style" of ball. Fundamentals are important, team play is important, and should never be compromised regardless of who's on the team. But there is a way to incorporate these things into a style of play that matches your team's talent.

These guys are not good half court defenders...they do not close out on shooters well, they do not rotate in the half court game (notice none of the big men on the squad are defensive stoppers), they do not fight over the top of picks well. But what they do well is play the passing lane very well and know how to trap and transition from defense to offense. By going to a trapping/pressing defense you create a feeding frenzy and dunk fest.
Playing an uptempo defense allows for substitution because you need fresh bodies... brining in fresh legs in your trapping defense that includes (Wade, Stoudamire, James, Marion, Boozer, Ekefor) leads to more turnover and points off turnovers. The first group isn't as well suited to a pressing trapping style (other than Iverson and Marbury) but a 1-2-2 matchup zone would cause problems. With Iverson and/or Marbury pressuring the ball, Jefferson and Iverson and/or Marbury playing the passing lane, you can get out and run off turnovers.

Now, LB has won more games that me... but when I coached that's the system that I employed to get the guys into making defensive stops and allow for easy substitution. Running, trapping, and pressing allows you to sub more freely due to the energy required by the individual players. Plus this style of play works well in tourney play cuz teams don't have time to prepare for it.
 
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