Let Us Reason: The Exodus Story.....

[dacontinent]

Tactics? Wow! If this was about tactics, then God should have wiped the slate clean when Adam sinned and just started over. That would have been simpler and without rebuttal. No one would be baffled.

If you don't know that the culture of Christian school is diametrically opposed to that of public school, then you are sequestered and out of touch. When you understand that sin is sin and its penalty is death, you will understand that all comparisons of the responses to sin are comparable. You don't get extra credit for resisting sexual sins over resisting gluttony. Adam was placed in garden with one law: enjoy everything here without eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He (we) lost all dominion over eating from that one tree. It changed all of biblical history.

Because God chose to do things differently from the way that we might think they should/could be done, does not make Him wrong at all. You ASSUME what people MIGHT have done and call God wrong for not doing what you SUPPOSE could have been better ... but you have no proof. Nothing. You merely have your perspective, to which you are entitled. However, thinking that you are correct at this point is just this side of maniacal.

It amazes me what you look right past in reading the scriptures. It really shouldn't...because you DON'T have the Holy Spirit and won't have Him until you believe. So, I will try to make this simple for you. The presence of God, on the mercy seat between the cherubim, in holy place within the tabernacle ... was the Holy Spirit with Israel. That is why Paul refers to believers as being His temples rather than to have Him centrally located. The Holy Spirit was most certainly integral in the old covenant; what He wasn't was directly accessible by everyone who believed. THAT is what Paul teaches. God makes Himself accessible to us. If we choose to make decisions outside of His instruction then the burden is on us: Jew, Gentile, Atheist, Agnostic ... whatever ... the onus is ours.

The Israelites of the exodus were instructed to drive the inhabitants out of the land. They were also told WHY they needed to do so. They were setup to succeed. Following those instructions yields them an environment of their own; failing to follow those instructions leaves them very susceptible to the very things they were warned against. Did they choose to follow the instructions? What was the result?

 

[Apaquelypse]

First of all I said all things "combined". You singled out one item out of the several I named.
As far as the term "native American", it's the accepted term. It's better than calling them Indians. They were native to this continent before Europeans, so what are you talking about? What would you call them?

Artifacts, history books, stories from the natives themselves, names of rivers and landmarks, linguistics, etc are what we have? Are you saying that NONE of the aforementioned are credible when combined with other information?

Archaeologists have been using these methods for decades in unearthing ancient history and providing evidence of specific cultures around the world. Now you're saying they're useless? Are you a certified archaeologist?
Do you have anything better to offer?

Based on your logic of how you down play the bible and discredit almost all of its validity, the same can be done based on your artifacts and landmarks etc, the only proof you have is what somebody else said or didnt say.....you are overly intelligent enough to understand how history works in this country and all history in the US is filled with lies and was printed mainly for manipulation and control purposes, just like you say the bible was.

These same Archaeologists have "discovered" tons of things that they were paid not to release to the public and have been paid greatly to release findings that lined up with the popular theory or train of thought of that time. and I know you know this....

 

[Dr H..]

JR

Question:

Do you believe in creation or evolution and explain your belief.

 

[JayRob]

Archaeological findings in support of a Hebrew exodus is practically zero.

And do you know why; because when they left Egypt, they left with practically nothing Hebraic. I bet the few odds and ends they took with them was Egyptian at most they took with them a few animals, clothes maybe a few Egyptian clay pots for cooking. They did not have an opportunity to take the stove, kitchen sink and other “household itemsâ€￾ because Moses had reminded his people that they had to leave in a hurry, and that their bread dough would not have time to rise. They were therefore told to make 'unleavened' bread (bread made without yeast) To commemorate this, unleavened bread is eaten by Jewish people during the Passover festival.

You continue to forget the Hebrews were nomadic in nature. Although they had been in Egypt 430 years – more or less.

So what artifacts are you looking for.

Dr. H, there were several surrounding powerful kingdoms and many smaller cultures surrounding Egypt at the supposed time of the exodus. None, I mean zero, I mean nadda one of them ever mentioned such a thing as a group of slaves exiting Egypt and destroying the mighty Egyptian army.

You supposedly had 2-3 million people, yet not one surrounding nation bothered to record it? Not one iota of physical evidence was left? Not one shred of archaeological evidence for the thousands of Egyptian soldiers that drowned, along with thousands of horses and chariots? Not one shred of evidence in either case has bee found.

Which of the following is more likely to have occurred,

a)"that the author of exodus lied and made up the story" OR

b)"that the enemies of Egypt didn't want to mock their most hated enemy by not recording such a massive slaughter", the likes which have never been seen in history OR

c)"that the laws of nature were suspended thus causing a massive river to split wide open, allowing 2-3 million people to cross, then closing up when the Egyptians began crossing?

Which is more likely to have occurred?

 

[JayRob]

Based on your logic of how you down play the bible and discredit almost all of its validity, the same can be done based on your artifacts and landmarks etc, the only proof you have is what somebody else said or didnt say.....you are overly intelligent enough to understand how history works in this country and all history in the US is filled with lies and was printed mainly for manipulation and control purposes, just like you say the bible was.

These same Archaeologists have "discovered" tons of things that they were paid not to release to the public and have been paid greatly to release findings that lined up with the popular theory or train of thought of that time. and I know you know this....

If your theory holds true, then we ought to destroy every archaeological finding ever discovered. Just throw out all of the discoveries around the world and forget about it.
Now you know that makes no sense at all.

Apaquelypse, what are some of the things, "pertaining to native Americans", were archaeologists paid not to release? List them with references please.

 

[Dr H..]

You supposedly had 2-3 million people.

During a previous discussion on the same topic, I posted some pictures of various parts of chariots that were found in the “Reed Seaâ€￾. These artifacts were found by archeologist.

Do you accept the fact that the Hebrew was nomads? With that being said, today [2010] there are nomads that travel through Africa, China and the Soviet Union and they do not leave artifacts. In fact after a few hours there cease to be evidence they lever logged there for an hour; week or year. After wandering around for 40 years and considering at 2K years has passed since the Exodus, what artifacts should remain. Are you looking for clay pots, tent poles; ash from a camp fire, perhaps a few sheep skins; a pair of sandals or a gate with welcome to the House of Moses? We are talking about nomads that lived in the Sarah desert for 40 years.

Who said that there were thousands of Egyptian Solders?

It’s the Reed Sea not Red Sea, where the Hebrews crossed is a land bridge not open ocean as some think.

“Kingdomsâ€￾ perhaps there were other kingdoms, who said they knew anything about the Exodus. Because an event happens, that does to mean the entire world knows. I bet events have happen in your neighborhood and you did not know about it – am I telling a lie.

Is it possible for a group of people (society A) to totally consumed by another society, they were not initially part of (society B)? And over a period of time A has become indoctrinated to the customs of B. After an extended period of time all the customs of A, has disappeared, because of the dominance of B? Yes or no

Now answer my question.

 

[Apaquelypse]

If your theory holds true, then we ought to destroy every archaeological finding ever discovered. Just throw out all of the discoveries around the world and forget about it.
Now you know that makes no sense at all.

Apaquelypse, what are some of the things, "pertaining to native Americans", were archaeologists paid not to release? List them with references please.

No sir, my comment was not a theory, but common practice amoungst the educators and history tellers of our time.....Hell up until the mid 60's blacks were all poor and dumb, never invented anything, were decendants of Apes and Gorrillas, and had tails growing out of their asses.....and all of this was scientifically proven at one time or another....


How about the fact that "native americans" lived civilized, complex lives for one?
How about the fact that "native americans" used and knew how to use, refine and sell oil.
How about the fact that "native americans" had tools, medicines, and other medical supplies to use during child birth and not just boiled damn water and a rag

And since you want a reference, how about i refer you to the history of every other race that exsisted during the time of exploration, or the original 13 colonies and its bulid up, or even your own families history as told to you by your family and then by the yt man.

Ive never asked you to throw out anything, as you suggest we all do, concerning the bible. But again, your stance is based on evidence and proof, that can easily manipulated and misinterpeted by money, greed, and the notion of power. How can you doubt a God who owns it all, and allow your trust to take residence in some of the most corrupt of all his creations?

Anyway, the point of the whole matter is this......for hundreds of years, african americans have been lied to and lied on in terms of their history, heritage, and culture to keep one particular race as the race of superior race. Why then would you beleive that this same race of people would be inclined to imply that another race of people did mighty and magnificant things without their influence?

 

[JayRob]

Tactics? Wow! If this was about tactics, then God should have wiped the slate clean when Adam sinned and just started over. That would have been simpler and without rebuttal. No one would be baffled.

That's all you have is an example of an Adam and Eve slate being wiped clean?
The only ones who are baffled are the ones believing in a story that has nothing to support it, a tyrannical killer god, and a people who didn't mind being racists, who didn't mind committing genocide of innocent men, women, children and babies. You can't escape your biblical history, no matter how hard you try and gloss over it's atrocities. They'll always be there staring you in the face and people with rational and logical minds will always be there to remind you of it.

If you don't know that the culture of Christian school is diametrically opposed to that of public school, then you are sequestered and out of touch. When you understand that sin is sin and its penalty is death, you will understand that all comparisons of the responses to sin are comparable. You don't get extra credit for resisting sexual sins over resisting gluttony.

Dacon, you brought up your children and school and compared it to the environment the Israelites were put through, I didn't. I simply pointed out to you that your comparison was and still is ludricous and laughable.

Adam was placed in garden with one law: enjoy everything here without eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He (we) lost all dominion over eating from that one tree. It changed all of biblical history.

Dacon, there you go again blaming poor ole Adam and Eve for something they had no power over, which was Satan. Satan existed thousands and thousands of years, while Adam and Eve were less than one day old.
Humans love to grovel and blame themselves rather than looking at the one who created this Satan and who allowed him access to humans in the first place.
If this was any other religion, folks would be blaming the pagan god for be so unjust and evil, but since it's the Christian god, they weekly and dishonestly turn a blind eye to an obvious injustice. Not only that, they turn around and BLAME THEMSELVES FOR SOMETHING THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH. Talk about mind control and sado-masochism, Christians worship of their god is the epitome of such.

Because God chose to do things differently from the way that we might think they should/could be done, does not make Him wrong at all. You ASSUME what people MIGHT have done and call God wrong for not doing what you SUPPOSE could have been better ... but you have no proof. Nothing. You merely have your perspective, to which you are entitled. However, thinking that you are correct at this point is just this side of maniacal.

Me thinking that PEACE and LOVE would've been the best route to take is thinking maniacal??!! Hahahaha!! And you call your god a "god of love"? Now whose maniacal now?

And what did your OT god assume? He assumed wrong. Instead of on the outset of their journey from Egypt, instead of seeking peace with other nations, he taught his people to war and hate. You know he did, but you just can't bring yourself to admit it. Genocide calls for pure hate. Killing innocent babies calls for pure hate. Killing innocent women and men calls for pure hate.
Your god put forth that call when he ordered his people commit genocide.

It amazes me what you look right past in reading the scriptures. It really shouldn't...because you DON'T have the Holy Spirit and won't have Him until you believe. So, I will try to make this simple for you. The presence of God, on the mercy seat between the cherubim, in holy place within the tabernacle ... was the Holy Spirit with Israel. That is why Paul refers to believers as being His temples rather than to have Him centrally located. The Holy Spirit was most certainly integral in the old covenant; what He wasn't was directly accessible by everyone who believed. THAT is what Paul teaches. God makes Himself accessible to us. If we choose to make decisions outside of His instruction then the burden is on us: Jew, Gentile, Atheist, Agnostic ... whatever ... the onus is ours.

Again, I don't need a proverbial holy spirit to counter your statements.
For instance, the mercy seat was only a PHYSICAL type and symbol of the OT god's throne. It had nothing to do with the sending of any holy spirit to the Israelites in mass, to dwell within them at that time.

The presence of god was outside, not within the minds of the Israelites. The presence of god was shown in the form primarily via miracles.
As I said earlier, miracles only serve to strengthen faith minimally and for a short period of time.

Not until Pentecost was the holy spirit offered internally to the masses. Until then, humans were practically on their own, except the very few who it was offered to internally.

For you to even hint that the people could obey the OT god WITHOUT the spirit INDWELLING is inaccurate to say the least.
For you to think that you could obey god just by seeing a cloud by day and a fire by night was nowhere near being enough.

Millions of Israelites failed and Paul tells you why they failed. It was because the old covenant was flawed. It was physical, not spiritual.
Faith is a characteristic of the holy spirit. They didn't have the holy spirit, therefore they didn't have the faith to endure temptations.
I didn't need any holy spirit to reveal something to me you couldn't.

Perhaps it would help you to understand a bit more if you re-read and do your best to comprehend the book of Hebrews in regards to the old covenant, where Paul clearly admits that it was flawed, that's why it had to be replaced by a new covenant that offered the holy spirit.
Even though this stuff is fiction, even I know that much. Shame on you Christians for not knowing something so vitally important to your religion and "salvation".

The Israelites of the exodus were instructed to drive the inhabitants out of the land. They were also told WHY they needed to do so. They were setup to succeed. Following those instructions yields them an environment of their own; failing to follow those instructions leaves them very susceptible to the very things they were warned against. Did they choose to follow the instructions? What was the result?

So you admit that they were instructed to invade innocent peoples, then you said that they were set up to succeed by committing genocide of innocent babies, children, women and men?!
The more I read stuff like this, the sicker and crazier it sounds.
You're blaming the Israelites for having mercy on fellow human beings who had done virtually nothing to them?

Whatever happened to love, joy, peace, gentleness, goodness, mercy and the like as described in Galatians?
How you can fix your mind to justify such nonsense and violence, then have the nerve to fix your mouth to say that some holy spirit is composed of love? That's not love, but it's pure unadulterated evil and you know it. Hacking babies with swords, knives, stones; hacking up the women, the elderly, the handicapped; killing off the animals, stealing their land. It's sickening even thinking about such bloodthirsty violence and evil.

With such thoughts, you should have no problems with what Hitler did to the Jews and what Europeans did to Africans. If you do, you're a hypocrite of hypocrites, pure and simple.

 

[JayRob]

JR

Question:

Do you believe in creation or evolution and explain your belief.

Neither.

 

[dacontinent]

There is nothing in biblical history to escape. I enjoy it immensely. It could be said that I exult in it.

Remember: I have faith in God as both Sovereign and Absolute. I have no trouble believing God had nothing to swear by but Himself and that He holds Himself accountable. So, I have nothing to prove. Laugh as you will; that choice is yours.

If you don't want to understand that Adam and Eve had power over Satan...

Gen 1:26-27

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.​

...then that is entirely up to you. Enjoy yourself. Adam's sin was simply disobedience. While it corrupted the bloodline, the story did not end there; a second Adam was prepared before the first Adam was ever formed. How awesome is that!!??

If this was a pagan religion, we would simply know that it was motivated by Satan. That is understood. If this was the religion of JayRob, it would simply be logical and make all kinds of sense. That is understood as well.

Peace and love are not maniacal; you thinking that there would never be wars over the resources possessed by another is.

One needs the Holy Spirit in order to properly understand the scriptures (Jn 14 & 16). You don't believe that God manifested in the mercy seat. That is your loss and your choice. For you to think that people did not obey God without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is scripturally inaccurate. Just read the book. You are obviously capable of that. Oh, wait ... you are trying to understand the scriptures without embracing the mind of Christ. Nevermind. That would be a waste of your time.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. If the Israelites didn't have faith because they didn't have the holy spirit, then no one could ever be saved. Salvation comes before receiving the Holy Spirit, and we are saved by grace through faith. So, since you must have faith in order to be saved, then you must have faith before receiving the Holy Spirit. Apparently, you did need me to reveal this to you.

Perhaps if you understood WHO was flawed in the first covenant then you would understand the need for the second one. God has never failed His covenant.

I have been telling you for many posts in this thread that the Israelites invaded Canaan made war with the people groups there. They were setup to succeed in those efforts and they failed to follow through. If you think the violence of the battles in the OT was heinous, go on an read Revelation and Daniel again. What has been is nothing compared to what shall be.

I have great problems with what Hitler did to Jews, the French, British, ...and Africans and with what Europeans and American did to Africans ... and what Africans did/do to Africans ... but I do understand what they do/did and why they do/did it.

 

[JayRob]

You supposedly had 2-3 million people.

During a previous discussion on the same topic, I posted some pictures of various parts of chariots that were found in the “Reed Seaâ€￾. These artifacts were found by archeologist.

And that one wheel you mentioned was found to not be credible. Those supposed archaeologists were found to not be archaeologists at all. I know you remember this because it wasn't that long ago. Why you keep posting the same material is beyond me.

Do you accept the fact that the Hebrew was nomads? With that being said, today [2010] there are nomads that travel through Africa, China and the Soviet Union and they do not leave artifacts. In fact after a few hours there cease to be evidence they lever logged there for an hour; week or year. After wandering around for 40 years and considering at 2K years has passed since the Exodus, what artifacts should remain. Are you looking for clay pots, tent poles; ash from a camp fire, perhaps a few sheep skins; a pair of sandals or a gate with welcome to the House of Moses? We are talking about nomads that lived in the Sarah desert for 40 years.

DH, when 2-3 million people wander in a small area for 40 years, other cultures encounter them and they leave evidence.
It's apparent that no cultures knew of such a people because not one of them recorded it.
Archaeologists have dug and dug and searched and searched, yet they've still found nothing.
Lesser known cultures are known and have been written about by their contemporary's but not the Israelites under Moses.

Who said that there were thousands of Egyptian Solders?

Do you think a few hundred were sent after 2-3 million people? Really?!

It’s the Reed Sea not Red Sea, where the Hebrews crossed is a land bridge not open ocean as some think.

“Kingdomsâ€￾ perhaps there were other kingdoms, who said they knew anything about the Exodus. Because an event happens, that does to mean the entire world knows. I bet events have happen in your neighborhood and you did not know about it – am I telling a lie.

Dr. H, you can make all the excuses and suppositions you please. Until there's actual evidence, the bible story of an exodus is only hearsay, not fact.
Fact of the matter is that no other cultures recognized the Israelites under Moses.
The Hittites, Canaanites, Philistines Ethiopians and other cultures have their recorded history and are written and talked about by neighboring nations, however the same can't be said for the Israelites.

Is it possible for a group of people (society A) to totally consumed by another society, they were not initially part of (society B)? And over a period of time A has become indoctrinated to the customs of B. After an extended period of time all the customs of A, has disappeared, because of the dominance of B? Yes or no

Now answer my question

What other culture, other than the Israelites, was said to have a god who rained hail storms in the middle of a desert? made the sky remain dark for three straight days? made water turn to blood? caused the death of all firstborn children and animals? defeated an entire pwerful kingdom with ragtag slaves who had no weapons and no military experience or military?

What OTHER culture is said to have been given so much help from their god, yet the other nations failed to record such a people and the works of their god?
You name me such a culture, then I'll answer your question.

The likelihood that such a people and god being ignored by an age that was lead by superstition and imaginary gods, is highly unlikely.

2-3 million people leaving mighty Egypt with their heads held high, yet not one enemy of Egypt bothered to record it? No evidence of 40 years in a wilderness? No evidence of a solar eclipse lasting for three days, yet no one records it?

PULLLEASE with much emphasis!!!

 

[JayRob]

There is nothing in biblical history to escape. I enjoy it immensely. It could be said that I exult in it.

Remember: I have faith in God as both Sovereign and Absolute. I have no trouble believing God had nothing to swear by but Himself and that He holds Himself accountable. So, I have nothing to prove. Laugh as you will; that choice is yours.

Another copout saying that your fictional god can do anything he wants to do. That's cowardly and bowing down to no more than a modern day dictator. Let him kill off all the innocent people just as long as me and mine are saved. This has to be the height of selfishness and evil.

If you don't want to understand that Adam and Eve had power over Satan...

Gen 1:26-27

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.​

...then that is entirely up to you. Enjoy yourself. Adam's sin was simply disobedience. While it corrupted the bloodline, the story did not end there; a second Adam was prepared before the first Adam was ever formed. How awesome is that!!??

Where does your bible say that humans were stronger than Satan?
Even today, man has no dominion over all creatures, especially microscopic bacteria and viruses. Wondery why that wasn't mentioned? Oh, I know, they didn't know about them that's why.

If this was a pagan religion, we would simply know that it was motivated by Satan. That is understood. If this was the religion of JayRob, it would simply be logical and make all kinds of sense. That is understood as well.

Your religion copied another religion, yet labels those religions as pagan. How ironic and how hypocritical?

Peace and love are not maniacal; you thinking that there would never be wars over the resources possessed by another is.

Peace and love are NOT maniacal, but ordering the genocide of babies, children, women and innocent men sure is. Dwell on that for a minute.

One needs the Holy Spirit in order to properly understand the scriptures (Jn 14 & 16). You don't believe that God manifested in the mercy seat. That is your loss and your choice. For you to think that people did not obey God without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is scripturally inaccurate. Just read the book. You are obviously capable of that. Oh, wait ... you are trying to understand the scriptures without embracing the mind of Christ. Nevermind. That would be a waste of your time.

The mercy seat was a symbol and it was physical. It had nothing to do with a holy spirit coming to the people.
How many people had the OT god's spirit in the wilderness? Moses, Joshua and Caleb? That's three out of three million. How many people ended up obeying your OT god in the wilderness? Three, which amounts to a percentage of .00000001 of one percent. Some success huh?!! LOL!!

Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. If the Israelites didn't have faith because they didn't have the holy spirit, then no one could ever be saved. Salvation comes before receiving the Holy Spirit, and we are saved by grace through faith. So, since you must have faith in order to be saved, then you must have faith before receiving the Holy Spirit. Apparently, you did need me to reveal this to you.

Again, how many Israelites were saved? Less than a tenth of one percent?! How can you even fix your mind to even try and convince anyone that these people could obey without the OT god's spirit? If you believe such, you're totally embarassing your OT god. Actually you're embarassing him WORSE than I can. This Satan god slaughtered your OT god 99.9 to .00000001.

Paul says in Roms 7:14-24, that he COULDN'T obey no matter how much he tried. In Romans 8, he goes on to say that with the holy spirit he could. You and Paul are in total disagreement. That's not including the 3 out of three million stat I posted earlier. LOL!!!

Perhaps if you understood WHO was flawed in the first covenant then you would understand the need for the second one. God has never failed His covenant.

Paul didn't say WHO was flawed in Hebrews, he said WHAT was flawed. That was that old covenant which didn't include the holy spirit. Don't have me to post the verses again.

I have been telling you for many posts in this thread that the Israelites invaded Canaan made war with the people groups there. They were setup to succeed in those efforts and they failed to follow through. If you think the violence of the battles in the OT was heinous, go on an read Revelation and Daniel again. What has been is nothing compared to what shall be.

You have been saying that "success" equals genocide, equals the killing of babies, equals the killing of children, equals the killing of girls, of boys, of women, of innocent men, of stealing land, of slavery. You call that success with a straight face? Religious folks like you are akin to psychopaths if you believe such nonsense amounts to success.

I have great problems with what Hitler did to Jews, the French, British, ...and Africans and with what Europeans and American did to Africans ... and what Africans did/do to Africans ... but I do understand what they do/did and why they do/did it.

You can't have it both ways. If you believe Hitler and others were wrong, you have to grow some "ball's" and be honest enough to admit that you have problems with what YOUR OT god did to many thousands and thousands in the old testament.

 

[dacontinent]

By definition, God is omnipotent. You obviously have problems with that. I do not.

Here are a few places the Bible says that PROPERLY EQUIPPED humans are stronger than Satan:

• Gen 1:26; 3:1
• Ex 7:10-12
• 1 Kings 18:21-40
• Matthew 4:3-10
• Acts 16;16-18
• James 4:7
• 2 Cor 2:9-14
• Job 2 & Job 42

I did not define pagan ...

Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, civilian, country dweller, from pagus country district; akin to Latin pangere to fix — more at pact
Date: 14th century
1 : heathen 1; especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person
3 : neo-pagan​

...take that up with Webster. Based on your posts, pagan would be an apt characterization of you.

Every person in the wilderness had the Holy Spirit with them (Lev 16). That was the whole point of the tabernacle. I know that is hard for you to swallow. They depended on him for everything.

Looks like you missed Romans 7:25 and fall right into Romans 8 AGAIN. Until you surrender to Jesus, you're just going to be stuck there. I know it is hard. I was stuck there, too, when I until I was 8.5 years old. It happened comparatively early in life for me; and there is plenty of time for you.

No need to pot the verses in Hebrews. The writer knew his audience and his audience knew of failed the covenant.

Success in conquest of Canaan meant driving all of the Canaanites from the land. If the Canaanites were not willing to go peaceably, then death was a means of accomplishing the goal. We in the western world have more trouble accepting that. Most people groups do not.

Hitler's objective was to create a "master race" by eliminating all people who did not fit a physical and intellectual description. All people groups belong to God. He didn't need to get rid of any. [/QUOTE]

 

[Dr H..]

JR
As sad as it seems, you are very small minded!

when 2-3 million people wander in a small area for 40 years, other cultures encounter them and they leave evidence

What small area are you referring to, the Sinai is over 23,000 sq mi. that’s larger than W. Virginia; Maryland; Hawaii; Vermont; Jersey; DC; Conn; RI; NH and Denmark. So what you are saying is Archeologist has searched 23K plus sq. miles for artifacts. That within itself does not make commonsense and you know it. Archeologist has searched Egypt for years and they are still discovering the Tombs of the Pharoses.

You tell me, how many soldiers were sent a, does the bible provide a definite number?

So I ask you again, considering the Hebrews departed Egypt with a few articles, what evidence do you expect to find in the Sinai from a group of individuals who had only the cloth on their back.

They were “Nomads†traveling on foot, maybe a few animals and tents. Allow me to explain it in a way a first grader can understand. It has been over two thousand years since the Exodus, [if] the Hebrews had tents with wooden poles to support them; animal bones that were discarded; the animal skin that was used for clothes or the cotton material used for clothes; the trails thru the desert; a camp file used by Moses to B-B-Q a Lamb; a gold nugget; a pair of leather sandals or a canvas bag with water, do you think the material would be around after 2000 years? These folks did not build cities or temples!

Neither.

Stop telling that lie. Please explain your existence. I guess you just pop on the scene of time.

And that one wheel you mentioned was found to not be credible. Those supposed archaeologists were found to not be archaeologists at all.

So are you saying in order for an object to have creditability, it has to be discovered by an archeologist?

Now answer my question about “Nomadsâ€

……..was said to have a god who rained hail storms…….

stop avoiding the question and answer my question.


100% of what the Hebrews used was Biodegradable

 

[JayRob]

By definition, God is omnipotent. You obviously have problems with that. I do not.

Dacon, by definition, anyone can claim that THEIR god is omnipotent. Try Horus of Egypt, Zeus of the Greeks, Kristna of Hinduism, Yahweh of Judaism, Christ of Christianity, Allah of Islam.
The writings of the OT god automatically condemn him as not being omnipotent at all. No god would make hundreds of blunders and contradictory statements in his writings; none would make dozens and dozens of blunders pertaining to unfulfilled prophecies and none would go so far as to downright copy the practices of pagan religons that they themselves condemn.
Most Christians have no idea of such evidence against such a "god". Only those who've actually investigated religion and the history of various religions have any idea of how bogused it is.

Here are a few places the Bible says that PROPERLY EQUIPPED humans are stronger than Satan:

Properly equipped? We're talking about Adam against Satan, with NO help from any OT god. Why you tried to sneak that in shows that you know that Adam couldn't have overcome Satan on his own. Nevermind the fact that this didn't matter to the OT god. He STILL ordered Adam to do it.

[*]Gen 1:26; 3:1

Neither verse says anything about man being stronger than Satan.

[*]Ex 7:10-12

The OT god did the miracles, not Aaron.

[*]1 Kings 18:21-40

Elijah worked under the power of the OT god. He didn't cause the miracles on his own.

[*]Matthew 4:3-10
[*]Acts 16;16-18
[*]James 4:7
[*]2 Cor 2:9-14
[*]Job 2 & Job 42
[/LIST]

I won't even go into the other verses. They're virtually the same type verses as those above.
The fact of the matter is that these people had assistance. Nowhere in Genesis does it say that Adam had ANY holy spirit to help him.
In essence, those verses support my point even more which is that humans are nowhere near any match for any biblical Satan.

I did not define pagan ....take that up with Webster. Based on your posts, pagan would be an apt characterization of you.

Fact of the matter is that Christianity is copied from other pagan religions. You can't deny this and I challenge you to do so. The mere fact that you can't and won't should be evidence enough to yourself if only you'd HONESTLY admit it.

Every person in the wilderness had the Holy Spirit with them (Lev 16). That was the whole point of the tabernacle. I know that is hard for you to swallow. They depended on him for everything.

Having this holy spirit "WITH" versus "IN" are two totally different meanings.
Even your own "beloved" Jesus disagrees with your theory and on more than one occasion. He criticized the Pharisees for looking on the outside of the cup, but he told them it's what's INSIDE the cup that matters...
Matthew 23:25-26 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
This same Jesus also tells his disciples that they have the holy spirit dwelling WITH them, but soon it would be IN them....
John 14:17 ....the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Christ here clearly tells his disciples that the holy spirit dwelled with them on the outside, but come Pentecost, it will be IN them.
Another things is that you're unknowingly making a mockery of this holy spirit by insisting that eventhough the Israelite people had such a power, they STILL couldn't overcome Satan. How weak and useless must this holy spirit be based on your descriptions of it. I'm giving it more credibility while you're showing how weak it must be in only that three out 3 million people spiritually survived. No need to worry though, it's only fiction, but one should still appropriately interpret simple language.

Looks like you missed Romans 7:25 and fall right into Romans 8 AGAIN. Until you surrender to Jesus, you're just going to be stuck there. I know it is hard. I was stuck there, too, when I until I was 8.5 years old. It happened comparatively early in life for me; and there is plenty of time for you.

And you can't refute Paul either, so you just gloss over it. Paul clearly said that he COULDN'T overcome no matter how hard he tried but by this holy spirit entity. It's obvious that you're calling Paul a liar because both of you are saying completely different things.

No need to pot the verses in Hebrews. The writer knew his audience and his audience knew of failed the covenant.

No need to quote from the bible is what you're saying? Why is that? Isn't that where I should be quoting from? Didn't know that you'd reject clear bible verses from Paul.

Success in conquest of Canaan meant driving all of the Canaanites from the land. If the Canaanites were not willing to go peaceably, then death was a means of accomplishing the goal. We in the western world have more trouble accepting that. Most people groups do not.

So the Canaanites were to leave their land peaceably and go where? Take their families and go where? And for what reason? Is that showing love, joy, peace, humility, gentleness and kindness by telling these people to leave their land for no reason? You call the killings and murders love?

Hitler's objective was to create a "master race" by eliminating all people who did not fit a physical and intellectual description. All people groups belong to God. He didn't need to get rid of any.

All people belong to what god? The Christian god? The Hindu god? The Muslim god? The Jewish god? The Greek god? The Egyptian god?
Based on the writings of your god, what gives his people the right to do anything?
This OT god out of one side of his mouth tells his people not to murder, steal and covet. He then tells them to go and do just that, to first of all think and make plans toward taking their land, which is COVETEOUSNESS, then KILL the people off, then STEAL their land and possessions.
In the DSM IV dictionary, this is an open and shut case sign of schizophrenia. There's fits of rage, inconsistency, authorized demands to murder innocent people, to kill babies, girls, boys, women, men, elderly people. This same god then turns around and says that he's a god of "love"?! Sadomasochism at it's height.

I won't charge this nonsense to any god, but I will charge it to mere men creating their gods in THEIR own image and after THEIR likeness, rather than some OT god creating man in his image and after his likeness. When you look at it this way, everything falls into place and becomes crystal clear.

As I mentioned earlier, one would have to be ignorant of the history of religion and ignorant of Christianity's early beginnings when the authors were copying down vital characteristics from other religions, then calling it their own.
I would say conservatively that 85 percent or more of Christians have no idea that most of their "beloved" teachings came from paganism. I'm sure you're not willing to reveal this fact to your Sunday school students.

 

[dacontinent]

Is there any question in you mind to whom I refer when I use the term God?

I am not interacting here with most JayRob's, nor you with most Christians.

Adam had dominion over EVERY living creature on earth. EVERY. Satan, being a living creature on earth, was subject to Adam. There is no discrepancy in that. There is nothing sneaky about that.

If you want to be in denial about Adam, Job, Aaron, Moses, Elijah, Jesus, Paul, etc., then go right ahead. They were all given authority by God to operate and deal with Satan. It is never suggested anywhere in scripture that mankind should operate outside of the auspices of God. Where does it say that mankind should EVER operate any place other and under the power of God? God was to be there to assist mankind He created. If there was ever a crisis or a question, God was available to mankind ... but the dominion was mankind's to execute. Once again, Adam walked with God in the cool of the day; perhaps face-to-face and arm-in-arm. How much closer would He need God to be?

Your conjecture on religions - not just Judaism and Christianity - and their origins is just that. Nothing more. You have no evidence and there are no real disputes among the religious faculties themselves.

I have no reason to refute Paul since he and I agree.

Read this really slowly: there is no need to repost scriptures in Hebrews that we have already reviewed. There is no record of Pauline authorship of Hebrews though he is the most likely writer. Perhaps if you recall that the audience for Hebrews and Matthew were the same, it might help you to understand what is and is not explicitly stated and why...but I doubt it.

When encountering a formidable foe, there are always at least two options: flight and fight. The Canaanites had at least those choices.

DSM IV ... really? Alright. I'll bite. Who is it that qualifies to analyze God's mental prowess? This answer ought to be REALLY good.


:topic:
JayRob, I am now more curious about YOU. What is your academic/professional background? Does it lie in or about mental health / psychology / social work areas? My inquiring mind would like to know.

 

[Dr H..]

Elijah worked under the power of the OT god. He didn't cause the miracles on his own.

Are you admitting that there is an "OT God"

 

[JayRob]

Are you admitting that there is an "OT God"

You should already know the answer to that. I was merely speaking in reference to the fictional story of the old testament. According to the fictional story, Elijah worked under the power of the fictional OT god.

 

[Dr H..]

What about my other question - Creation or Evolution

 

[JayRob]

JR
As sad as it seems, you are very small minded!

when 2-3 million people wander in a small area for 40 years, other cultures encounter them and they leave evidence

If I'm small minded, then your gullible-minded in thinking that millions of people can travel for forty years leaving no evidence behind. Until archaeologists find legitimate evidence, the exodus continues to be a myth.

What small area are you referring to, the Sinai is over 23,000 sq mi. that’s larger than W. Virginia; Maryland; Hawaii; Vermont; Jersey; DC; Conn; RI; NH and Denmark. So what you are saying is Archeologist has searched 23K plus sq. miles for artifacts. That within itself does not make commonsense and you know it. Archeologist has searched Egypt for years and they are still discovering the Tombs of the Pharoses.

And you don't make commonsense. All archaeologists have to do is follow the directions listed in the Old Testament. There's no reason for archaeologists to stray away from those directions. If there's no evidence along the given biblical trails, then it's a myth, plain and simple.
You can come up with as many excuses as you want too, but archaeologists, have come to a virtual conclusion that the exodus just DIDN'T happen.

You tell me, how many soldiers were sent a, does the bible provide a definite number?

How many soldiers do you think it would take to round up 2-3 million former slaves? 100? 200? 2000? 3000? 10,000 or more?

So I ask you again, considering the Hebrews departed Egypt with a few articles, what evidence do you expect to find in the Sinai from a group of individuals who had only the cloth on their back.

A few articles? How did they build the tabernacle in the wilderness? Where did they get the animals to sacrifice? How did they feed the animals? Where did they get the material for shelter? Where did they get the material for clothing?
For you to fathom that there would be no evidence to account for 2-3 million people, along with thousands and thousands of animals, shelters, possessions, dead bodies, etc., you have to believe in an Alice In Wonderland type story.
Archaeologists have studied the trails for nearly a century and have come to the conclusion that it just didn't happen.

They were “Nomads” traveling on foot, maybe a few animals and tents. Allow me to explain it in a way a first grader can understand. It has been over two thousand years since the Exodus, [if] the Hebrews had tents with wooden poles to support them; animal bones that were discarded; the animal skin that was used for clothes or the cotton material used for clothes; the trails thru the desert; a camp file used by Moses to B-B-Q a Lamb; a gold nugget; a pair of leather sandals or a canvas bag with water, do you think the material would be around after 2000 years? These folks did not build cities or temples!

Dude, you're living in a land of "Jack and the Beanstalk". Your imagination is running wild and your logic is running on fumes. What do you mean they had very few animals and little shelter? The bible says they left with a "high hand" after they practically pillaged the Egyptians. Do you know your own bible? The Israelites took whatever they wanted, including lots of silver, gold and got whatever they asked for.

Exodus 12:33-36 says.... The Egyptians urged the people to hurry and leave the country. "For otherwise," they said, "we will all die!" 34 So the people took their dough before the yeast was added, and carried it on their shoulders in kneading troughs wrapped in clothing. 35 The Israelites did as Moses instructed and asked the Egyptians for articles of silver and gold and for clothing. 36 The LORD had made the Egyptians favorably disposed toward the people, and they gave them what they asked for; so they plundered the Egyptians.

In addition to that, the wilderness of the southern Sinai peninsula shows no traces of a mass-migration such as Exodus describes, and virtually all the place-names mentioned, including Goshen (the area within Egypt where the Israelites supposedly lived), the store-cities of Pithom and Rameses, the site of the crossing of the Red Sea (or, more commonly among modern Biblical scholars, the Sea of Reeds), and even Mt Sinai itself, have resisted identification. NONE have ever been identified.

Archaeological research has found no evidence that the Sinai desert ever hosted, or could have hosted, millions of people, nor of a massive population increase in Canaan, estimated to have had a population of between 50,000 and 100,000 at the time. In other words, the population increase in the region at that time didn't compensate for 2-3 million people. More evidence against a supposed exodus.
The logistics involved also present problems, with a researcher pointing out that 2.5 million people marching ten abreast would form a line 150 miles long, without accounting for livestock.

Is it so farfetched to come to the conclusion that the exodus was simply a made-up myth? No, not at all.

And that one wheel you mentioned was found to not be credible. Those supposed archaeologists were found to not be archaeologists at all.

So are you saying in order for an object to have creditability, it has to be discovered by an archeologist?

One fake wheel is all you have to hold on to. That one wheel theory came crashing down when it was found out that the founder was a fraud, was not legit and his entire corporation has been abandoned by many Christians. If you want to go on believing a dead liar and fraud, be my guest.
Note: To this very day, no one knows what happened to the fake wheel.

Now answer my question about “Nomads”

No records from surrounding nations such as the Canaanites, Hittites, Egyptians, Ethiopians, Babylonians, Assyrians, Philistines of 2-3 million nomads. No artifacts have been left behind. No population increases. No nothing.
Simply put, you have nothing to hold on too, nothing but a book jumbled together by ancient ignorant nomadic tribes, claiming a god they stole from surrounding cultures, and claiming it as their own.

100% of what the Hebrews used was Biodegradable

Says who? You say 100 percent? So silver is biodegradable? Gold is biodegradable?! Hahahahahahaha!!!!
I'll take the evidence-based research of archaeologists any day over your illogical guessing.

 

[JayRob]

Adam had dominion over EVERY living creature on earth. EVERY. Satan, being a living creature on earth, was subject to Adam. There is no discrepancy in that. There is nothing sneaky about that.

What kind of creature was Satan? If Adam had dominion over him, how did Satan outsmart him? LOL!!

If you want to be in denial about Adam, Job, Aaron, Moses, Elijah, Jesus, Paul, etc., then go right ahead. They were all given authority by God to operate and deal with Satan. It is never suggested anywhere in scripture that mankind should operate outside of the auspices of God. Where does it say that mankind should EVER operate any place other and under the power of God? God was to be there to assist mankind He created.

First of all, Adam was not in the exodus, neither was Job, Elijah, Jesus or Paul.
Why you brought them into the equation makes no sense.

Fact of the matter is that out of three million people taking part in the exodus, ONLY THREE were successful spiritually. I won't let you forget this. I will keep mentioning it over and over and over. THREE PEOPLE OUT OF THREE MILLION MADE IT!!! THIS MEANS THAT APPROXIMATELY 2,999,997 DIDN'T MAKE IT. SATAN CREAMED AND SMASHED THE OLD TESTAMENT god.

If there was ever a crisis or a question, God was available to mankind ... but the dominion was mankind's to execute. Once again, Adam walked with God in the cool of the day; perhaps face-to-face and arm-in-arm. How much closer would He need God to be?

That's right, just blame humans just like the OT god did, for something HE was clearly responsible for. That's what ignorant slaves do and that's how people who hate themselves act toward themselves.

Your conjecture on religions - not just Judaism and Christianity - and their origins is just that. Nothing more. You have no evidence and there are no real disputes among the religious faculties themselves.

Prove that what I'm saying is inaccurate. I don't want your "opinion", put forth your evidence to support it. I doubt if you have any evidence to refute the fact that Christianity is based on previous religions. I continue to challenge you.
I've listed my evidence over and over and over. It's high time you list yours.

I have no reason to refute Paul since he and I agree.

Where do you and Paul agree that humans can obey the christian god without such a thing called the holy spirit? Put forth your verses. So far, all you're doing is stating an "opinion" with nothing supporting it. Show your verses like I've done.

Read this really slowly: there is no need to repost scriptures in Hebrews that we have already reviewed. There is no record of Pauline authorship of Hebrews though he is the most likely writer. Perhaps if you recall that the audience for Hebrews and Matthew were the same, it might help you to understand what is and is not explicitly stated and why...but I doubt it.

Look at this, a Christian pleading with a non-Christian not to prove him wrong from his own holy book?! I've read it all now.
Does it matter who wrote the book of Hebrews? It says what it says and there's no refuting it.
What audience did Jesus confront? Can you deny what he said? What audience did John confront? Can you deny what he said in the above verse?
I used your own book to once again refute your statements, now you want to abandon it?

When encountering a formidable foe, there are always at least two options: flight and fight. The Canaanites had at least those choices.

Fast forward to my question since you're obviously trying to dodge it. This wouldn't be the first time though. Those questions are....
--So the Canaanites were to leave their land peaceably and go where?
--Take their families and go where?
--And for what reason?
--Is that showing love, joy, peace, humility, gentleness and kindness by telling these people to leave their land for no reason?
--You call the killings and murders love?

DSM IV ... really? Alright. I'll bite. Who is it that qualifies to analyze God's mental prowess? This answer ought to be REALLY good.

It's not about analyzing any god because it's obvious that the Old Testament wasn't written by any god, unless that god is called "man", and is purely flesh and blood with the lowest of human nature ruling his actions. If that's what the OT god is, then that's an accurate description.

JayRob, I am now more curious about YOU. What is your academic/professional background? Does it lie in or about mental health / psychology / social work areas? My inquiring mind would like to know.

A little bit of all three and then some.

 

[JayRob]

What about my other question - Creation or Evolution

Like I said earlier.....n-e-i-t-h-e-r. That spells nei-ther.

 

[dacontinent]

Satan is an angelic creature. He is capable of taking on many forms. Satan did not outsmart Adam. Adam simply disobeyed.

What Job, Elijah, Jesus, and Paul have in common with Moses, Joshua, Caleb, et. al. is that they were all humans who evidenced dominion over Satan, which was what you asked:

Where does your bible say that humans were stronger than Satan?...

I delineated several verses that included the persons named. My sampling includes people who lived before Abraham, through the exodus, during the kingdoms, NT, and the church age.

Besides that, there were more than three people who lived through the exodus and into the Promised Land. I am sure that you've read that. I won't let you forget it.

I have no need to prove the inaccuracy of your opinions. I simply let them stand on their own. You've presented no proof to substantiate what you contend. Therefore, it is simply conjecture.

Paul and I agree that Christ makes the difference (Rom 7:25 - 8:3). That one can be carnally minded even though he has the Spirit (Rom 7: 1-24; 8:4 - 14). And those having the Spirit and walking in the Spirit - OBEYING HIS LEADERSHIP - have the confidence of ultimate victory through sonship and reliance on the Spirit to guide us to it (Romans 8:15- 39). No. I don't not expect you to understand the scriptures.

JayRob, I need you to prove nothing about anything that you don't believe. Of course all we really know is what you don't believe.

Jesus confronted Jews, Samaritan, and Romans. John confronted Jews. What is your point?

Fast forward to my question since you're obviously trying to dodge it. This wouldn't be the first time though. Those questions are....
--So the Canaanites were to leave their land peaceably and go where?
--Take their families and go where?
--And for what reason?

They were about to be overrun by a hurricane. They knew it just as sure as the people of New Orleans knew about Katrina coming. Those who would choose to leave with plenty of time were able to preserve their lives. Stuff is stuff and you can start over again. Or...they could stay and try to fight it out, and possibly lose their lives. I live in Florida. When they tell us to evacuate, I am outta here.

--Is that showing love, joy, peace, humility, gentleness and kindness by telling these people to leave their land for no reason?
--You call the killings and murders love?

W-A-R. I think I have mentioned that several times now.

Thanks for enlightening me.

 

[Dr H..]

JR

You can keep that lie to yourself, because instinctively by nature we are designed to make a choice, whether it is right or wrong. This is what you are facing, if you select creation, you are saying that there is a creator and you are in agreement with Genesis Chapters 1 and 2. But if you select evolution, then you are saying that you evolved from a lower form of life evolving into a higher form of life. Either way you will be admitting that there is a creator, because someone had to create the lower form of life.

Now answer my other question about the Hebrews being Nomads.

If you look at some of the cities near the Chernobyl disaster in the Ukrainian, 1986, these cities has deteriorated to the point that some parts are unrecognizable. We are speaking of concrete, steel, asphalt, wood and other material. Consider, what has happen there over a period of twenty four years, so I am asking you the same question for the third or fourth time.

What artifacts do you expect to find from a bunch of Nomads.

Be a man and answer my question

 

[JayRob]

JR

You can keep that lie to yourself, because instinctively by nature we are designed to make a choice, whether it is right or wrong. This is what you are facing, if you select creation, you are saying that there is a creator and you are in agreement with Genesis Chapters 1 and 2. But if you select evolution, then you are saying that you evolved from a lower form of life evolving into a higher form of life. Either way you will be admitting that there is a creator, because someone had to create the lower form of life.

First of all, this a clever way of yours to avoid answering the responses from post #120. Instead, you chose to focus on me personally. That's fine, but objective readers can read between the lines.

Anyhow, what's your definition of "creation"? Genesis 1 and 2 are not the only creation accounts. Those accounts nowhere near matches up with anything remotely scientific. The account in Genesis is merely an account dreamed up by ancient nomadic ignorant tribesman having little to no knowledge of astronomy. For you, a supposed educated person, to fall for such a description of a "creation" is ludricous. As a matter of fact, Genesis has two separate creation periods. It makes no sense at all.
As a matter of fact I posted the two separate creations a few months ago. I'm almost sure you remember that. It clearly showed that there are TWO separate creations in Genesis 1 and 2 by TWO separate authors or parties.
If you want to find the posts, go back a couple of months. It had to do with the Flood.

Anyhow, I do not believe in a Genesis creation because it's illogical, unscientific, elementary, makes no sense and the book has TWO separate creations of the same sun, earth, moon, stars, humans, animals, etc. In short, it's a joke.

As far as evolution is concerned, scientific research and genetics has shown that humans are higher primates, perhaps a few genes from being "lower primates". It's obvious that our bodies are made up more than 99 percent the same material as some species. Science has proven that without a doubt. The only difference is perhaps intellect.
In short, there's more evidence for human evolution than some made up Genesis story.

Now answer my other question about the Hebrews being Nomads.

Refer back to post #120. It clearly outlines the fact that even if the Israelites were nomadic, there's still no evidence from surrounding cultures that they ever existed. Why you refuse to address that singular point right there speaks volumes. You have no logical excuse for that.

There's no evidence of a population explosion for that part of the Middle East during the exodus where less than 50,000 inhabitants previously existed in and around Canaan. The Israelites supposedly brought in another 3 million folks. The area should've been exploding with people, but nothing of the kind is recorded. No population explosion, no nothing.
There are no ancient artifacts; there's no evidence that a vast desert, with no water or food could even support 2-3 million people.
All you have is a story of mere "faith" in ONE fiction book with no supporting evidence. That one book is the bible.

You have to perform a number of mental gymnastics to even begin to justify the theory of an exodus. You have to lie to yourself that natural laws were suspended for one group of people, never to happen again. You have to fix your mind to believe so much hocus pocus stuff that it's not even funny. Again, refer to post #120. It has more than you can handle.

If you look at some of the cities near the Chernobyl disaster in the Ukrainian, 1986, these cities has deteriorated to the point that some parts are unrecognizable. We are speaking of concrete, steel, asphalt, wood and other material. Consider, what has happen there over a period of twenty four years, so I am asking you the same question for the third or fourth time.

Dude, how can you even fix your mind to even compare Chernobyl to an exodus? The evidence of Chernobyl has to do with a massive explosion. It has to do with nuclear fission. Even after that, every nation in the world knows about Chernobyl because of recorded history.
Where's the recorded history of 2-3 million Israelites roaming the desert for 40years being fed manna and quail from the sky and water from rocks? That would be more newsworthy than some Chernobyl, yet we have evidence of Chernobyl....we have nothing about an exodus.

What artifacts do you expect to find from a bunch of Nomads.
Be a man and answer my question.

Since you claim that silver and gold was biodegradable, I guess there's none to be found. LOL!! Now don't you feel foolish for even making such a statement that everything the Israelites brought out of Egypt was 100 PERCENT biodegradable? You just discredited yourself for all to see. Silver and gold are not biodegradable.

It's you who need to be a man and address the points I made in post 120. Cut the "smack jargon" and display your evidence. All you're doing is stating your opinion. You can't provide ONE shred of evidence supporting an exodus. I keep coming at you with more evidence and more logical points, you keep talking smack and trying to avoid answering my posts. It's obvious that you have no leg to stand on.
Show me your evidence of an exodus.

Archaeologists have found evidence of nomadic tribespeople in much smaller numbers than the Israelites in the same area, yet archaeologists cannot find a shred of evidence supporting 2-3 million Israelites. That speaks volumes.