LeBron, Kobe and MJ


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Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

If I played damm near 20 years, never ever fouled out of a game, and got a foul called in my favor everytime someone looked in my direction, I could have collected all that hardware also. :lol:

A entire NBA carear and MJ never fouled out of a game. They should make a new wing in the basketball HOF just for Jordan and David Stern on that stat alone because nobody else in NBA history has pulled that farce off. Now that is what I call favortism. :lol:
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

jstate83 said:
If I played damm near 20 years, never ever fouled out of a game, and got a foul called in my favor everytime someone looked in my direction, I could have collected all that hardware also. :lol:

A entire NBA carear and MJ never fouled out of a game. They should make a new wing in the basketball HOF just for Jordan and David Stern on that stat alone because nobody else in NBA history has pulled that farce off. Now that is what I call favortism. :lol:
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Uh Frat, Kobe is the one who is going to play longer than MJ because he came straight out of HS.

Yall need to stop with all that mess. Jordan even with star treatment had to deal with WAYYYYYYY more talent and big men in the paint. He had to deal with better teams overall. He also had to deal with other players who had the same killer instinct he did. Kobe has played most of his career against mofos who should have taken their arses to college for some seasoning. Kobe never had to get hacked by the Rodman's, Laimbeer's, Mahorn's of the world. Power Forwards back then were fugging Power forwards. They would all make Metta World Peace look like a Saint. Just saw some clips on Buck Williams a few days ago on NBA TV. Kobe and Lebron do not have to see that kind of stuff. Magic, Jordan and Bird got calls. We know they did. But MJ had more super stars to deal with than Kobe has had to in the last 10 years. Even the second tier players were good. I am not going to let you cats keep dogging that golden era of basketball. Magic and that crew in their prime would have run Kobe nem arses off the fugging floor. James Worthy would have give Kevin Durant a run for his money. And I am a KD fan. Blake Griffin aint nothing but a poor man's Shawn Kemp. Hell he aint even as good as Shawn Kemp was. Bynum would not even have been an All Star back in the gap. Whether you like MJ or not. It aint Kobe or Lebron's fault when they came into the league. But I am sorry that era was just overall better than now. No matter how much the new school thinks that is not true.
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

JR said:
Uh Frat, Kobe is the one who is going to play longer than MJ because he came straight out of HS.

Yall need to stop with all that mess. Jordan even with star treatment had to deal with WAYYYYYYY more talent and big men in the paint. He had to deal with better teams overall. He also had to deal with other players who had the same killer instinct he did. Kobe has played most of his career against mofos who should have taken their arses to college for some seasoning. Kobe never had to get hacked by the Rodman's, Laimbeer's, Mahorn's of the world. Power Forwards back then were fugging Power forwards. They would all make Metta World Peace look like a Saint. Just saw some clips on Buck Williams a few days ago on NBA TV. Kobe and Lebron do not have to see that kind of stuff. Magic, Jordan and Bird got calls. We know they did. But MJ had more super stars to deal with than Kobe has had to in the last 10 years. Even the second tier players were good. I am not going to let you cats keep dogging that golden era of basketball. Magic and that crew in their prime would have run Kobe nem arses off the fugging floor. James Worthy would have give Kevin Durant a run for his money. And I am a KD fan. Blake Griffin aint nothing but a poor man's Shawn Kemp. Hell he aint even as good as Shawn Kemp was. Bynum would not even have been an All Star back in the gap. Whether you like MJ or not. It aint Kobe or Lebron's fault when they came into the league. But I am sorry that era was just overall better than now. No matter how much the new school thinks that is not true.
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I don't think the league back then was that much better than it is in today. Go look at some of those teams the Bulls beat in the Finals. The Lakers and Magic Johnson were not the team had been for much of the 80s. Portland was OK.

I mean, Kevin Duckworth, Jerome Kersey and Buck Williams were their bigs. Phoenix Suns basketball never really has changed. Seattle was more in the mold of NBA teams we see today. Utah was much like the Spurs have been over the last decade.

The Bulls won six titles without a dominate four or five or even a true point guard for that matter. Their starting PGs during the title runs were John Paxson, B.J. Armstrong and an aging Ron Harper. Compare that to the starting PGs in the league today.
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

Man do yall realize what these SOFT ass basketball players are doing now!!! These dudes are nothing compared to the players of old. The wear protective body pads....3 refs (I remember when it was two)....easy fouls....the 3 point line...do you know how many cats would have astronomical points if the three point line was around back in the day....

And as far as being physical....THE DETROIT PISTONS when they had dudes like Lambier(sp)....

Fugg Kobe and Lebron when it comes to Jordan....
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

The Founder said:
Man do yall realize what these SOFT ass basketball players are doing now!!! These dudes are nothing compared to the players of old. The wear protective body pads....3 refs (I remember when it was two)....easy fouls....the 3 point line...do you know how many cats would have astronomical points if the three point line was around back in the day....

And as far as being physical....THE DETROIT PISTONS when they had dudes like Lambier(sp)....

Fugg Kobe and Lebron when it comes to Jordan....
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What does wearing protective body pads and the number of refs and the three-point line have do with anything? Falling down on a hardwood floor is not good for your body. That's why cats wear the extra padding underneath the jersey. Ya'll sound old people lamenting about not being able to relate to people who use Facebook and Twitter.

These kids with their tweeters, and Facebooks and skinny jeans and iPhones and baggy pants and three-point lines and hip-hop music.
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

GoodFella said:
Craig Ehlo, Mark Price, should I go on??
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Hell Mark Price in his prime would bust Sessions and Blake's arse. You better ask somebody. Craig Ehlo was a 6'7 guard. He was better than Mike Miller currently roaming around all beat up with the Heat. Yall act today's scrubs are better than yesterdays scrubs. If anything, those cats had heart back in the day. Price was not soft. He got injured with that foot. But dude could ball. He had to deal with a bunch of fast arse point guards and you couldn't play zone like you can now.
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

JR said:
Hell Mark Price in his prime would bust Sessions and Blake's arse. You better ask somebody. Craig Ehlo was a 6'7 guard. He was better than Mike Miller currently roaming around all beat up with the Heat. Yall act today's scrubs are better than yesterdays scrubs. If anything, those cats had heart back in the day. Price was not soft. He got injured with that foot. But dude could ball. He had to deal with a bunch of fast arse point guards and you couldn't play zone like you can now.
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Now we're arguing the value of also-ran players from 20 years ago compared to the also-rans of today. Nice.
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

LOL JR I knew guys from my hood that would put Ehlo on his ass. Just because they played back then doesnt mean they were better. It was soft guys back then just like now.
JR said:
Hell Mark Price in his prime would bust Sessions and Blake's arse. You better ask somebody. Craig Ehlo was a 6'7 guard. He was better than Mike Miller currently roaming around all beat up with the Heat. Yall act today's scrubs are better than yesterdays scrubs. If anything, those cats had heart back in the day. Price was not soft. He got injured with that foot. But dude could ball. He had to deal with a bunch of fast arse point guards and you couldn't play zone like you can now.
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Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

kendrick said:
I don't think the league back then was that much better than it is in today. Go look at some of those teams the Bulls beat in the Finals. The Lakers and Magic Johnson were not the team had been for much of the 80s. Portland was OK.

I mean, Kevin Duckworth, Jerome Kersey and Buck Williams were their bigs. Phoenix Suns basketball never really has changed. Seattle was more in the mold of NBA teams we see today. Utah was much like the Spurs have been over the last decade.

The Bulls won six titles without a dominate four or five or even a true point guard for that matter. Their starting PGs during the title runs were John Paxson, B.J. Armstrong and an aging Ron Harper. Compare that to the starting PGs in the league today.
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Portland was okay? Kendrick you don't have a clue bruh. Portland would win a NBA title now with that squad in their prime. Ducksworth and B Williams were enforcers. Buck could flat out rebound. And don't start that mess about PGs. The Bulls who I rooted for had Pippen and Jordan running the offense. The PG is not used the same way as traditional offenses. You heard them say that last night when talking about how this was a big change for the Lakers going to Mike Brown's offense vs the Tex Winter triangle. BJ Armstong growth got hampered by that. He was a good PG coming out of Iowa. He got his rings. But he would have been better off being drafted by a team who let the PG control the rock. All the Bulls PGs did were spot up for open shots when the defenses collapse on Jordan or Pippen. The post play was decent not great. But the Phil always kept 3 7 footers on his roster to dish out 18 fouls against the quality centers.
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

kendrick said:
I don't think the league back then was that much better than it is in today. Go look at some of those teams the Bulls beat in the Finals. The Lakers and Magic Johnson were not the team had been for much of the 80s. Portland was OK.

I mean, Kevin Duckworth, Jerome Kersey and Buck Williams were their bigs. Phoenix Suns basketball never really has changed. Seattle was more in the mold of NBA teams we see today. Utah was much like the Spurs have been over the last decade. The Bulls won six titles without a dominate four or five or even a true point guard for that matter. Their starting PGs during the title runs were John Paxson, B.J. Armstrong and an aging Ron Harper. Compare that to the starting PGs in the league today.
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KEN............... :lol:

Those teams had to play through HANDCHECKING and every other "tear your jersey off" tactic players could use. The polayers on those teams from the starters to the bench could shoot a jump shot unlike these mofos today.

Those teams would rip these mofo's playing in 2012 a new azzhole.
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

kendrick said:
What does wearing protective body pads and the number of refs and the three-point line have do with anything? Falling down on a hardwood floor is not good for your body. That's why cats wear the extra padding underneath the jersey. Ya'll sound old people lamenting about not being able to relate to people who use Facebook and Twitter.

These kids with their tweeters, and Facebooks and skinny jeans and iPhones and baggy pants and three-point lines and hip-hop music.
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You basically proved my point with your response hometeam....these kids ain't tough.....Kobe all time scorer....imagine is there was a 3 point line....Kobe would not be close....then these dudes cry over every damn foul....shit that ain't a flagrant foul....all this flopping mess....:emlaugh:
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

JR said:
Portland was okay? Kendrick you don't have a clue bruh. Portland would win a NBA title now with that squad in their prime. Ducksworth and B Williams were enforcers. Buck could flat out rebound. And don't start that mess about PGs. The Bulls who I rooted for had Pippen and Jordan running the offense. The PG is not used the same way as traditional offenses. You heard them say that last night when talking about how this was a big change for the Lakers going to Mike Brown's offense vs the Tex Winter triangle. BJ Armstong growth got hampered by that. He was a good PG coming out of Iowa. He got his rings. But he would have been better off being drafted by a team who let the PG control the rock. All the Bulls PGs did were spot up for open shots when the defenses collapse on Jordan or Pippen. The post play was decent not great. But the Phil always kept 3 7 footers on his roster to dish out 18 fouls against the quality centers.
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The Bulls post player was Jordan.

When you have the likes of Cartwright, Purdue, Longley and Wennington, post play didn't exist on the offensive end at least. And darn sure not with Rodman.

After B.J. Armstrong left the Bulls he was still B.J. Armstrong. So the Triangle Offense didn't hamper him at all. He was just a guy.
 



Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

The Founder said:
You basically proved my point with your response hometeam....these kids ain't tough.....Kobe all time scorer....imagine is there was a 3 point line....Kobe would not be close....then these dudes cry over every damn foul....shit that ain't a flagrant foul....all this flopping mess....:emlaugh:
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They all cried. In every era cats cried over non-foul calls. You want to know what team had the most crybabies?

The Pistons.

And your boy Laimbeer was a serial flopper, too.

Man, Kobe and LeBron and all the elite players now would have been just as good back then even without the three-point line you hate so much.
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

jstate83 said:
KEN............... :lol:

Those teams had to play through HANDCHECKING and every other "tear your jersey off" tactic players could use. The polayers on those teams from the starters to the bench could shoot a jump shot unlike these mofos today.

Those teams would rip these mofo's playing in 2012 a new azzhole.
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exactly frat. These kids can't get touched now. Back then you could kill a mofo coming down the lane.
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

kendrick said:
The Bulls post player was Jordan.

When you have the likes of Cartwright, Purdue, Longley and Wennington, post play didn't exist on the offensive end at least. And darn sure not with Rodman.

After B.J. Armstrong left the Bulls he was still B.J. Armstrong. So the Triangle Offense didn't hamper him at all. He was just a guy.
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You have no clue at all. Wow Kendrick. Please stick to baseball. Did you ever see BJ at Iowa? Seriously. The Triangle was not a good thing for him long term. And Jordan was not the post player. Stop it with the nonsense. Did he post up his smaller opponents? Yes. But it wasn't like they fed Jordan the rock down low all the time. Jordan found spots all over the floor. Improved his outside shooting when he got tired of getting beat up going down the lane all the time. They went into the post with Horace Grant at times. Especially when he had not developed a decent range with his jump shot. Now if you said Pippen played in the post some. Then yea. See Kendrick you are talking about the Rodman Bulls. I am going back to the Bulls when Phil first took over and Ho Grant was on the team with Cartwright at Center. Pippen, Jordan, Grant, Cartwright and Paxon were your starters with BJ, Craig Hodges, Cliff Levingston, Will Perdue and Bill Wennington coming off the Bench. I know you are young Kendrick. But stop trying to convince us cats like JState83 and I that we don't know what we saw LIVE back then every week. You only get the memorex condensed version from the late 80s and early 90s. LOL.
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

kendrick said:
They all cried. In every era cats cried over non-foul calls. You want to know what team had the most crybabies?

The Pistons.

And your boy Laimbeer was a serial flopper, too.

Man, Kobe and LeBron and all the elite players now would have been just as good back then even without the three-point line you hate so much.
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Whining about calls is one thing. But you best believe Laimbeer would get your arse when you came back through the lane. Thump and Bump would too. Just because they were vocal to the refs don't mean they didn't play hard core. Actually the reason they whined some is because folks called them dirty. LOL. They were trying to pimp the refs into thinking the other team would be doing the same dirt to them. But don't none of these soft arse mofos like Pau Gasol want anything to do with Rick Mahorn, Dennis Rodman, Laimbeer, James Edwards, and the likes of the bad boy Pistons. Even Salley would get a piece of you to. LOL. Mark Aguirre, Zeke, Dumars and the Microwave wouldn't back down from you. Now you just saw how I named that whole Piston team that I hated and you really think any team today would be able to punk them mofos in their prime? Mahorn would beat a mofo like Artest arse for lunch.
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

JR said:
You have no clue at all. Wow Kendrick. Please stick to baseball. Did you ever see BJ at Iowa? Seriously. The Triangle was not a good thing for him long term. And Jordan was not the post player. Stop it with the nonsense. Did he post up his smaller opponents? Yes. But it wasn't like they fed Jordan the rock down low all the time. Jordan found spots all over the floor. Improved his outside shooting when he got tired of getting beat up going down the lane all the time. They went into the post with Horace Grant at times. Especially when he had not developed a decent range with his jump shot. Now if you said Pippen played in the post some. Then yea. See Kendrick you are talking about the Rodman Bulls. I am going back to the Bulls when Phil first took over and Ho Grant was on the team with Cartwright at Center. Pippen, Jordan, Grant, Cartwright and Paxon were your starters with BJ, Craig Hodges, Cliff Levingston, Will Perdue and Bill Wennington coming off the Bench. I know you are young Kendrick. But stop trying to convince us cats like JState83 and I that we don't know what we saw LIVE back then every week. You only get the memorex condensed version from the late 80s and early 90s. LOL.
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I go back to the Bulls when team had Dave Corzine and Ed Neely playing important minutes for them. LOL. You make it appear as if those Bulls teams were loaded. The best player they had outside of Jordan and Pippen during the championship seasons was Kukoc. Everyone else were just role players.

Cartwright was a solid post player defensively, but he was an average offensive player on the block. Jordan used to ride his butt a lot for that all the time. You know what Grant was? He was a good defender and rebounder. However, he was more known for hitting the mid-range jumper more so than banging down low. The Bulls used the triangle with their bigs to create advantages for their wing players.

Thank God for YouTube which allows folks to actually go back and watch full games from eras gone by to refute some of things you old heads say about the "golden era" of basketball. LOL.

And I'll end with this, Founder and everyone is talking about how the game was more physical by then and defenders were allowed to do a lot more grabbing. Obviously, the rule changes have curbed the physical play.

However, the game is coached differently, too. Offenses are more catered on the outside shot and three-point shot.

40 years ago the game was congested because the three-point line didn't exist, and it quite frankly made no sense to shoot 20 to 23 foot jumpers.

Bigs back then were not allowed to shoot jumpers. If Dirk or Kevin Durant had come along in the 70s and 80s, a coach would have told them to stay in the post. Now we have 6-9 to 7-footers living on the outside. If you don't have a couple of bigs who can stretch the defense, it's hard to win games consistently.
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

kendrick said:
I go back to the Bulls when team had Dave Corzine and Ed Neely playing important minutes for them. LOL. You make it appear as if those Bulls teams were loaded. The best player they had outside of Jordan and Pippen during the championship seasons was Kukoc. Everyone else were just role players.

Cartwright was a solid post player defensively, but he was an average offensive player on the block. Jordan used to ride his butt a lot for that all the time. You know what Grant was? He was a good defender and rebounder. However, he was more known for hitting the mid-range jumper more so than banging down low. The Bulls used the triangle with their bigs to create advantages for their wing players.




Thank God for YouTube which allows folks to actually go back and watch full games from eras gone by to refute some of things you old heads say about the "golden era" of basketball. LOL.

And I'll end with this, Founder and everyone is talking about how the game was more physical by then and defenders were allowed to do a lot more grabbing. Obviously, the rule changes have curbed the physical play.

However, the game is coached differently, too. Offenses are more catered on the outside shot and three-point shot.

40 years ago the game was congested because the three-point line didn't exist, and it quite frankly made no sense to shoot 20 to 23 foot jumpers.

Bigs back then were not allowed to shoot jumpers. If Dirk or Kevin Durant had come along in the 70s and 80s, a coach would have told them to stay in the post. Now we have 6-9 to 7-footers living on the outside. If you don't have a couple of bigs who can stretch the defense, it's hard to win games consistently.
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Dude, you don't have to be loaded to be a great team. Those players all had a skill that Phil could use. And you can stop it that you go back to Dave Corzine. Hell I was in middle school when he was with the Bulls. LOL. I remember Corzine in college because he played for Ray Meyer at DePaul. Hell he was there before Aguirre got there. Corzine is older than Magic and Bird. So stop with you were rolling with the Bulls when Corzine was there. You aint even 30 years old right? Or early 30? Just because you are from Chicago don't mean you are an expert on the Bulls and Chicago sports. Next thing you tell me you were hanging out with Norm Van Lier and Jerry Sloan when they played. BTW, I did see them play as well.

Kendrick you can't refute anything I am saying. You just want to damn disagree period because you think you know how the game was played. Kukoc wasn't even on the first 3 peat. He got to the Bulls after they had won. The difference then and now is that players knew their role and they executed their roles on those great teams. Same for the showtime Lakers. Michael Cooper could have started with other teams but did his thing with the Lakers. Junior Bridgeman who owns all those Wendy's could have started with other teams but came off the bench in Milwaukee when they had Marques Johnson, Sidney Moncrief, Bob Lanier, Phil Ford and Brian Winters. Teams were more complete then because there was not all this expansion.
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

JR said:
Dude, you don't have to be loaded to be a great team. Those players all had a skill that Phil could use. And you can stop it that you go back to Dave Corzine. Hell I was in middle school when he was with the Bulls. LOL. I remember Corzine in college because he played for Ray Meyer at DePaul. Hell he was there before Aguirre got there. Corzine is older than Magic and Bird. So stop with you were rolling with the Bulls when Corzine was there. You aint even 30 years old right? Or early 30? Just because you are from Chicago don't mean you are an expert on the Bulls and Chicago sports. Next thing you tell me you were hanging out with Norm Van Lier and Jerry Sloan when they played. BTW, I did see them play as well.

Kendrick you can't refute anything I am saying. You just want to damn disagree period because you think you know how the game was played. Kukoc wasn't even on the first 3 peat. He got to the Bulls after they had won. The difference then and now is that players knew their role and they executed their roles on those great teams. Same for the showtime Lakers. Michael Cooper could have started with other teams but did his thing with the Lakers. Junior Bridgeman who owns all those Wendy's could have started with other teams but came off the bench in Milwaukee when they had Marques Johnson, Sidney Moncrief, Bob Lanier, Phil Ford and Brian Winters. Teams were more complete then because there was not all this expansion.
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I understand Kukoc wasn't on the first three-peat team. He was drafted by Chicago in 1990 and didn't play his first official season as Bull until 1993-1994. He was at the press conference crying in the background when Jordan announced his first retirement. With that said, it doesn't take away from the fact he was the most skilled player the Bulls had other than Jordan and Pippen. LOL

The fact of the matter is when someone mentions how a player of this era does something well, the old insecure basketball folks get defensive and want to disparage them, and say every basketball player who played 20, 30 and 40 years ago were decidedly better than anyone who has played in the last decade.
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

I hate when yall start comparing different generations.... point blank....WE WILL NEVER KNOW. Founder is comparing body pads lol.... Thats like me saying "Jordan didnt play in no Chuck Taylors" .....
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

Here we go with this again. Without even reading all that mess I know that JR is writing that ice was colder and water was wetter back in the day.

The fact is the NBA changed its rules and coddled Jordan. Jordan was DavidSterns guy. He was the most marketable person in the league so there was noway Stern was going to let Jordan lose. As soon as the ball came across the timeline the refs were ready to blow the whistle. Thats why I couldn't stand watching the NBA at the time. They should have changed the name from NBA to WJSF Watch Jordan Shoot Freethrows ...that's exactly what you were going to do.

The Bulls were good but the rest of the NBA was terrible during Jordans reign. Remember the NBA expanded to Vancouver Charlotte Miami and Toronto. That diluted the talent and spreaded it across the league making teams weaker. How much better would Indiana have been with AlonzoMourning at center? Where would Cleveland be with LarryJohnson at power forward instead of being on bad expansion teams?

And JR ....the talent is much better today than the 80s. These kids play AAU basketball from preteen to college. All we did was play streetball until we went to college. The skill level is much better now than ever before. There are stars all over the league so DavidStern doesn't have to engineer outcomes like he did for Jordan.
 
Re: LeBron, Kobe and MJ.....

As far as comparing Jordan to Kobe....there is no comparison to me. Not only does Stern not help Kobe like he did Jordan but he works against Kobe. If you watched the 04 finals you could see the fix was in. There is noway Stern was going to let the Lakers win 4 titles in 5 years.

Even this year in an unprecedented move he blocked the Gasol/ChrisPaul trade. Why would he do that? Even though I was not a fan of the trade at the time why would stern stop a trade that would've sent an allstar power forward and the 6th man of the year to new orleans for Paul? That was mutually beneficial. Instead he killed the trade and it made NewOrleans the one of the worst teams in the league. He did all of that to stop Kobe from winning his 6th. If DavidStern would just get out of the way Kobe would be in his 7th title.
 
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