Olde Hornet
Well-Known Member
JSU/99 said:
Crusades!
Its time to take real action!
- Thread starter Olde Hornet
- Start date
Crusades!
What is funny about it? The US has no great superiority. They have made advances in the past 25 years. I have been assigned to the only nuclear unit in the US. I have some knowledge of its capability.CEE DOG said:
Here is a partial list of countries that we know better than to mess with.
Britian (our strongest supporter
Russia (even in its new state)
Korea
China
Heck we could not even defeat vietnam.
LadyLuck13
Chocolate Rain
.Olde Hornet said:
Makaho 2.0
++ Digital Assassin ++
- John Stuart Mill
Seriously, I bet that quote is 20 years old minimum. It is from a time when men were of integrity. it is froma time when men did not start a war for personal gain or a personal vindetta.Makaho 2.0 said:
Having said that let me restate and to some extent retract. It is from a time when the masses did not know they were lied to.
I am as proud of the young person who recognizes the evil motives and refuses to fight as i am of the soldier who fights.
That comes from an army officer.
CEE DOG
Well-Known Member
Trust me. It isn?t anything you can tell me about our Arsenal. If you only knew player!! Let me put it like this to you, just about every and I mean every Army weapon system is developed here in Huntsville in some form or fashion. I will leave it at that.UAPB-LIONS-AM&N said:
Olde Hornet
Well-Known Member
LadyLuck13 said:
Yes, innocent people are being slain and its time for the west to slay of their innocent people. It time for us to stop being the victim. If you have some fantasy that if we pull out of Iraq (I don?t believe we should be there, but that?s a separate discussion) and Afghanistan that they will stop, you and others are the Neville Chamberlain?s of your generation.
Those who forget their history are bound to repeat it. If you believe in democracy or theocracy that means sometimes you have to fight for it.
I don?t view a difference between women and kids versus men. A life is a life. They don?t have that distinction and you should not either. Regardless of what we do, they will hate us, this goes back for centuries.
The only appeasement that will work if the work is that the world converts to islam, but not just any islam, but their strict interpretation of islam. They are no different than our own fundamentalist, you have to believe EXACTLY as they do or you are not a real ?islamist? or ?Christian? or whatever the sects that the fundamentalist believe. So if you are ready to convert the entire world to their brand of islam, then you can have peace in your lifetime. Other wise you are going to have to break a few eggs.
Blacknbengal
Well-Known Member
I agree. I'm going to email Bush now and tell him to slap an AK-47 in you all's hands send you on your way. Like the old saying goes, "If you want the job done right you have to do it yourself."
Makaho 2.0
++ Digital Assassin ++
UAPB-LIONS-AM&N said:
This comes from a former army officer, company commander and ranger!
Olde Hornet
Well-Known Member
Guerrilla warfare - it?s easy and cheap ? unfortunately western militaries have yet to modify their tactics. The west will continue to lose until their militaries change their mode of operations.
For those of you still in denial -your should read this:
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/2005/07/10/news/front/12095286.htm
Posted on Sun, Jul. 10, 2005
Young Islamic radicals find haven in U.K.
By Ken Dilanian
Inquirer Staff Writer
LONDON - In Saleem Ali's world, it's all quite simple: The Jews control the global economy. The Americans are murderous thugs. And the British government was behind Thursday's attacks here.
Prime Minister Tony Blair ordered it, Ali said in an interview, for the same reason President Bush orchestrated the 9/11 carnage: "To cause panic among the public so that people will hate Muslims."
Welcome to Bethnal Green, a heavily Muslim neighborhood just a few subway stops away from the heart of tourist London. Hardly wild-eyed, Ali, a 30-year-old shopkeeper, spoke with measured eloquence. He stood next to his younger brother and four friends, each of whom echoed his sentiments in tones so light-hearted that a reporter repeatedly asked whether they were joking. Not at all, they said as they excoriated the West and praised al-Qaeda.
Although leaders in Britain's Muslim community have strongly denounced Thursday's attacks, experts say the spread of radical views among a younger generation of Muslims here has made the United Kingdom a hospitable venue for Islamic jihadists. Anti-terror analysts say it will be no surprise if those who carried out the London attacks turn out to be British subjects.
"I suspect it was homegrown individuals, with outside help," said Scottish-born Ian Cuthbertson, an anti-terrorism expert with the World Policy Forum in New York. "There is a strong jihadist Islamic fundamentalist streak running through Britain's Muslim community. There is also a very, very severe generational split.
"We have Muslims in Parliament and everything else, but that leadership just doesn't have any resonance with young Muslim men. And the fact that they are concentrated in ethnic ghettos means that it becomes a self-reinforcing cycle."
Britain's history of admitting large populations of poor, uneducated Pakistani and Bangladeshi immigrants from its former empire - along with a generous asylum policy that has allowed Arab dissidents to claim political shelter - has long made it a haven for Islamic radicals. And while the vast majority of British Muslims are law-abiding, a string of incidents in recent years has put the problem of the country's radical Muslim minority in stark relief.
In 2001, Richard Reid, a British convert to Islam, tried to blow up an American Airlines flight with shoes packed with explosives. In 2003, two British Muslims blew themselves up in a Tel Aviv bar, killing three people. British-born mujaheddin were found fighting for the Taliban in Afghanistan, and last spring, British police foiled a massive bomb plot by Muslims inside Britain, one operation among 700 arrests of terror suspects since 9/11.
Then there is Abu Hamza, the cleric who was allowed to preach hatred from his north London mosque for years before he was arrested and charged with supporting terrorism. And Abu Qatada, detained by the government as a threat to national security, then ordered released on civil-liberties grounds.
At Friday prayers, Muslim leaders throughout Britain denounced Thursday's attacks, just as many had long criticized Abu Hamza and other radicals.
"We sent a very strong message in the mosque today," Mohammed Bashir of the Luton Council of Mosques, said in a telephone interview. "We were all shocked by this incident. I firmly personally believe these terrorists, they don't have any nationality, they don't have any religion."
At issue is whether younger British Muslims agree. In Bethnal Green, where the sidewalks are filled with women in veils and men in skullcaps, Saleem Ali and his friends condemned the attacks, too, but for a different reason: They see them as one more strand in the web of conspiracy against Islam.
"Obviously the media is saying that Muslims did it, but I think it was a conspiracy by Tony Blair and George Bush," said Olle Rahaman, 32, a husband and father who, like the other men, was born in London of Bangladeshi parents. "An excuse to say, 'Let's go kick some ass.' "
Dressed mostly in Western-style clothes and speaking British-accented English, Ali and his friends offered a striking insight into the alienation, disaffection and extremism that experts say is prevalent among the younger generations of the United Kingdom's 1.2 million Muslims.
"No way would I ever say I'm British," Rahaman, a bus driver, said, as Zahir Miraj, 24, nodded.
The United States, they argued, was out for world domination - and is controlled by Jews. They ticked off a list of large British companies they said were owned by Jews, arguing that such control means the deck is stacked in favor of Israel and against Muslims.
They complained that the 47 fatalities in the London attacks were receiving a disproportionate share of attention, compared to the thousands of civilians killed on a monthly basis in Iraq and Palestine.
"We've got a few dead people and some with scratches on their faces," Ali said. "Go to Iraq. Thousands of women and children have been killed in Iraq."
Though they said they were not particularly devout Muslims, the men expressed disgust for the drinking and casual sex that is widespread in their home country. They chortled over Blair's promise that terrorists would not disrupt Britain's way of life.
"Our way of life? Monday to Friday working, Friday night at the disco, shagging anything that moves, young women wearing miniskirts so they get raped. Is this what they mean by democracy?" Ali said. "That's got nothing to do with us."
The men said that nearly everyone they know feels the way they do. Opinion polls lend some credence to that: In a March 2004 survey of Muslims by ICM Research, two-thirds said the U.S. and British war on terror was a war on Islam. Forty-five percent said they would send their children to Muslim-only schools if they could. And 13 percent said further attacks on the United States by al-Qaeda were justified. "I think it's a good thing that there are organizations" like al-Qaeda, Ali said. "It keeps them awake at night."
Some terrorism scholars argue that British society, especially on the left of the political spectrum, is in denial about its extremism problem. Politicians celebrate Britain's multicultural tableau, they say, without looking too deeply at the segregation and division below the surface.
"Assimilation was never policy, explicitly or otherwise, of the British government," said Michael Radu, who studies terrorism at the Foreign Policy Research Institute in Philadelphia. "They accepted as natural what you may call cultural and religious tribalism, and now it's turning against them.
"They confuse tolerance with negligence."
For those of you still in denial -your should read this:
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/2005/07/10/news/front/12095286.htm
Posted on Sun, Jul. 10, 2005
Young Islamic radicals find haven in U.K.
By Ken Dilanian
Inquirer Staff Writer
LONDON - In Saleem Ali's world, it's all quite simple: The Jews control the global economy. The Americans are murderous thugs. And the British government was behind Thursday's attacks here.
Prime Minister Tony Blair ordered it, Ali said in an interview, for the same reason President Bush orchestrated the 9/11 carnage: "To cause panic among the public so that people will hate Muslims."
Welcome to Bethnal Green, a heavily Muslim neighborhood just a few subway stops away from the heart of tourist London. Hardly wild-eyed, Ali, a 30-year-old shopkeeper, spoke with measured eloquence. He stood next to his younger brother and four friends, each of whom echoed his sentiments in tones so light-hearted that a reporter repeatedly asked whether they were joking. Not at all, they said as they excoriated the West and praised al-Qaeda.
Although leaders in Britain's Muslim community have strongly denounced Thursday's attacks, experts say the spread of radical views among a younger generation of Muslims here has made the United Kingdom a hospitable venue for Islamic jihadists. Anti-terror analysts say it will be no surprise if those who carried out the London attacks turn out to be British subjects.
"I suspect it was homegrown individuals, with outside help," said Scottish-born Ian Cuthbertson, an anti-terrorism expert with the World Policy Forum in New York. "There is a strong jihadist Islamic fundamentalist streak running through Britain's Muslim community. There is also a very, very severe generational split.
"We have Muslims in Parliament and everything else, but that leadership just doesn't have any resonance with young Muslim men. And the fact that they are concentrated in ethnic ghettos means that it becomes a self-reinforcing cycle."
Britain's history of admitting large populations of poor, uneducated Pakistani and Bangladeshi immigrants from its former empire - along with a generous asylum policy that has allowed Arab dissidents to claim political shelter - has long made it a haven for Islamic radicals. And while the vast majority of British Muslims are law-abiding, a string of incidents in recent years has put the problem of the country's radical Muslim minority in stark relief.
In 2001, Richard Reid, a British convert to Islam, tried to blow up an American Airlines flight with shoes packed with explosives. In 2003, two British Muslims blew themselves up in a Tel Aviv bar, killing three people. British-born mujaheddin were found fighting for the Taliban in Afghanistan, and last spring, British police foiled a massive bomb plot by Muslims inside Britain, one operation among 700 arrests of terror suspects since 9/11.
Then there is Abu Hamza, the cleric who was allowed to preach hatred from his north London mosque for years before he was arrested and charged with supporting terrorism. And Abu Qatada, detained by the government as a threat to national security, then ordered released on civil-liberties grounds.
At Friday prayers, Muslim leaders throughout Britain denounced Thursday's attacks, just as many had long criticized Abu Hamza and other radicals.
"We sent a very strong message in the mosque today," Mohammed Bashir of the Luton Council of Mosques, said in a telephone interview. "We were all shocked by this incident. I firmly personally believe these terrorists, they don't have any nationality, they don't have any religion."
At issue is whether younger British Muslims agree. In Bethnal Green, where the sidewalks are filled with women in veils and men in skullcaps, Saleem Ali and his friends condemned the attacks, too, but for a different reason: They see them as one more strand in the web of conspiracy against Islam.
"Obviously the media is saying that Muslims did it, but I think it was a conspiracy by Tony Blair and George Bush," said Olle Rahaman, 32, a husband and father who, like the other men, was born in London of Bangladeshi parents. "An excuse to say, 'Let's go kick some ass.' "
Dressed mostly in Western-style clothes and speaking British-accented English, Ali and his friends offered a striking insight into the alienation, disaffection and extremism that experts say is prevalent among the younger generations of the United Kingdom's 1.2 million Muslims.
"No way would I ever say I'm British," Rahaman, a bus driver, said, as Zahir Miraj, 24, nodded.
The United States, they argued, was out for world domination - and is controlled by Jews. They ticked off a list of large British companies they said were owned by Jews, arguing that such control means the deck is stacked in favor of Israel and against Muslims.
They complained that the 47 fatalities in the London attacks were receiving a disproportionate share of attention, compared to the thousands of civilians killed on a monthly basis in Iraq and Palestine.
"We've got a few dead people and some with scratches on their faces," Ali said. "Go to Iraq. Thousands of women and children have been killed in Iraq."
Though they said they were not particularly devout Muslims, the men expressed disgust for the drinking and casual sex that is widespread in their home country. They chortled over Blair's promise that terrorists would not disrupt Britain's way of life.
"Our way of life? Monday to Friday working, Friday night at the disco, shagging anything that moves, young women wearing miniskirts so they get raped. Is this what they mean by democracy?" Ali said. "That's got nothing to do with us."
The men said that nearly everyone they know feels the way they do. Opinion polls lend some credence to that: In a March 2004 survey of Muslims by ICM Research, two-thirds said the U.S. and British war on terror was a war on Islam. Forty-five percent said they would send their children to Muslim-only schools if they could. And 13 percent said further attacks on the United States by al-Qaeda were justified. "I think it's a good thing that there are organizations" like al-Qaeda, Ali said. "It keeps them awake at night."
Some terrorism scholars argue that British society, especially on the left of the political spectrum, is in denial about its extremism problem. Politicians celebrate Britain's multicultural tableau, they say, without looking too deeply at the segregation and division below the surface.
"Assimilation was never policy, explicitly or otherwise, of the British government," said Michael Radu, who studies terrorism at the Foreign Policy Research Institute in Philadelphia. "They accepted as natural what you may call cultural and religious tribalism, and now it's turning against them.
"They confuse tolerance with negligence."
LadyLuck13
Chocolate Rain
Olde Hornet:
It feels like you're putting words in my mouth/mind....I don't believe that having our troops overseas now is helping stop the terrorist...I don't believe that pulling out will either, but there are fathers, mothers, daughters, sons, etc. out there losing lives everyday and for WHAT? To teach a country consisting of completely different religous beliefs, customs, and values, to try to be something they've NEVER been, DEMOCRATIC? can't you see? THEY DON'T WANT US THERE! If terrorists wanted to strike again, believe, they'll find a way. Those terrorists study embassy structure AND the Art of terrorism for YEARS. There are too many conspiracies inside of this whole "War on Oil... I mean Terror" deal.
What do I think? I think we're fighting a war we can't win.
It feels like you're putting words in my mouth/mind....I don't believe that having our troops overseas now is helping stop the terrorist...I don't believe that pulling out will either, but there are fathers, mothers, daughters, sons, etc. out there losing lives everyday and for WHAT? To teach a country consisting of completely different religous beliefs, customs, and values, to try to be something they've NEVER been, DEMOCRATIC? can't you see? THEY DON'T WANT US THERE! If terrorists wanted to strike again, believe, they'll find a way. Those terrorists study embassy structure AND the Art of terrorism for YEARS. There are too many conspiracies inside of this whole "War on Oil... I mean Terror" deal.
What do I think? I think we're fighting a war we can't win.
OH, listen to JSU. You are not talking about taking on a nation a people or terrorists. You are talking about taking on a religion. That is comparable to saying kill christians because the KKK is doing its thing.(they do profess christianity)JSU/99 said:
We have to fight terriorists (I hope that is who you meant) in some country. As in Iraqi we are now fighting terriorists not the Iraqui government. This thing has deesculated from removing the Iraqui government to fighting terrorists. As much as I can not stand Bush, that may one good outcome.
You overstate but I get your point. I also know of a nuclear weapon that went online as combat ready that never had a successful test firing. Maybe you are right and I hope that you are. My assignment to that unit was a lot of years ago. I think the weapon went out with SALT agreement.CEE DOG said:
Even that is not my point and is moot.
The issue is that we donot have the manpower to fight in too many places. In many places we can not/will not use many weapons. Many other countries have highly sophiscated weapons also. We donot have the market cornered.
Just a few weeks ago one of our "enemies" developed a nuclear delivery system that can strike the US. Not only that it is imferbulus (sp) to the billions we have spent on Star wars defense systems because it does not have atragectory that hyperbolic to the target.
Olde Hornet
Well-Known Member
You can read the entire article at:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/07/13/europe/web.0713london.php
Four suicide attackers carried out London bombings
The Associated Press
WEDNESDAY, JULY 13, 2005
LEEDS, England New evidence suggests four suicide bombers, including at least three Britons of Pakistani descent, carried out the terror attacks in London, officials said. Surveillance cameras captured the men as they arrived in the capital 20 minutes before the explosions began.
Police raided six homes in Leeds Tuesday searching for explosives and computer files that would shed more light on what were believed to be the first suicide bombings in Western Europe. They arrested a man, identified by the British news agency Press Association as a relative of one of the suspected bombers.
A city councilor told The Associated Press that at least three of the presumed suicide bombers were British citizens of Pakistani ancestry.
News reports have identified the suspects as Shahzad Tanweer, a 22-year-old cricket-loving sports science graduate; Hasib Hussain, 19; and Mohammed Sidique Khan, the 30-year-old father of an 8-month-old baby.
Press Association, citing police sources, said Wednesday that police had identified the fourth suspect but no name was reported.
Police have not publicly confirmed the identities of any of the suspects.
Press Association said the men had driven a rental car to Luton, 50 kilometers (30 miles) north of London, and then boarded a commuter train to London's King's Cross station. Police closed Luton's train station Tuesday and carried out nine controlled explosions on a parked car, which the BBC reported contained explosives.
Closed-circuit TV video showed all four men arriving at King's Cross by 8:30 a.m. on Thursday, about 20 minutes before the blasts began, said Peter Clarke, head of the Metropolitan Police anti-terrorist branch.
U.S. intelligence agencies are checking the names of the London bombers against their databases looking for any U.S. connection, U.S. President George W. Bush told chief executives at a private White House meeting Tuesday.
Two militant Islamic groups have claimed responsibility for the bombings, which killed at least 52 people on three subway trains and on a bus.
Although police stopped short of calling them suicide attacks, Clarke said ''strong forensic and other evidence'' suggests one of the suspects was killed in a subway bombing and property belonging to the three others was found at the locations of the other blasts.
''The investigation quite early led us to have concerns about the movements and activities of four men, three of whom came from the West Yorkshire area,'' Clarke said.
The West Yorkshire region includes Leeds, and the homes of the three suspects from the city were among the six that were searched Tuesday.
Acting on six warrants, British soldiers blasted their way into an unoccupied Leeds row house. Streets were cordoned off and about 500 people were evacuated. Hours earlier, police searched five homes elsewhere in the city. Police still weren't letting the evacuees return to their homes early Wednesday.
Mohammed Iqbal, a town councilor who represents the City-on-Hunslet section of Leeds, told AP that all of the homes raided belong to ''British citizens of Pakistani origin.''
Three of the homes were in the neighborhood he represents, Iqbal said in a phone call with AP's office in Islamabad, the Pakistani capital. He said he had just met with police about the investigation.
''This is not good for Muslims,'' Iqbal said. ''We have businesses here. There will be a backlash.''
Several officials, including Foreign Minister Jack Straw, have said the attacks bore the ''hallmark'' of al-Qaida, and one of the questions investigators are presumably trying to answer is whether the four suspects had outside help in planning the attacks.
Jeremy Shapiro, director of research at the center on the United States and Europe at the Brookings Institution, said Europeans had been involved in suicide attacks in the Middle East, but he knew of no successful suicide bombings in Western Europe previously.
Clarke said police had strong evidence that the man believed to have carried a bomb onto the subway train that exploded between the Aldgate and Liverpool Street stations died in the blast, and they were awaiting confirmation from the coroner.
One of the suspects had been reported missing by his family at 10 p.m. Thursday, and some of his property was found on the double-decker bus in which 13 died, Clarke said.
''We have now been able to establish that he was joined on his journey to London by three other men,'' he said.
Some witness accounts suggested the bus bomber may have blundered, blowing up the wrong target and accidentally killing himself. A witness who got off the crowded bus just before it exploded told AP he saw an agitated man in his 20s fiddling anxiously with something in his bag.
''This young guy kept diving into this bag or whatever he had in front of his feet, and it was like he was taking a couple of grapes off a bunch of grapes, both hands were in the bag,'' said Richard Jones, 61, of Bracknell, west of London. ''He must have done that at least every minute if not every 30 seconds.''
One theory suggested the attacker may have intended to leave his bomb on the subway but was unable to board because his coconspirators had already shut the system down.
Investigators also found personal documents bearing the names of two of the other men near seats on the Aldgate and Edgware lines. Police did not identify the men.
Leeds, about 270 kilometers (185 miles) north of London, has a population of about 715,000. About 15 percent of the residents are Muslim, and many come from a tight-knit Pakistani community, mostly from Mirpur, south of Islamabad in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir. Other pockets of the community are mostly Arab.
Khalid Muneer, 28, a spokesman for the Hyde Park Mosque in Leeds, said the community was surprised by the raids and police claims that the bombers may have come from there.
''That connection would surprise us all, even shock the whole community. We still think it's too early to say,'' he told AP, adding that Muslims in the area were not opposed to Britain.
''I've seen no calls in this area for jihad against British or American forces. You will not get that sentiment expressed around this mosque.''
Police said their investigation was moving ahead, and warned that the death toll would continue to rise. Fifty-six people remained hospitalized Tuesday. Forensics experts have said it could take weeks to identify the bodies, many of which were blown apart and would have to be identified through dental records or DNA analysis. Investigators say 11 bodies have been identified.
LEEDS, England New evidence suggests four suicide bombers, including at least three Britons of Pakistani descent, carried out the terror attacks in London, officials said. Surveillance cameras captured the men as they arrived in the capital 20 minutes before the explosions began.
Police raided six homes in Leeds Tuesday searching for explosives and computer files that would shed more light on what were believed to be the first suicide bombings in Western Europe. They arrested a man, identified by the British news agency Press Association as a relative of one of the suspected bombers.
A city councilor told The Associated Press that at least three of the presumed suicide bombers were British citizens of Pakistani ancestry.
News reports have identified the suspects as Shahzad Tanweer, a 22-year-old cricket-loving sports science graduate; Hasib Hussain, 19; and Mohammed Sidique Khan, the 30-year-old father of an 8-month-old baby.
Press Association, citing police sources, said Wednesday that police had identified the fourth suspect but no name was reported.
other articles:
http://www.elpais.es/articulo.html?d_date=&xref=20050713elpepuint_2&type=Tes&anchor=elpporint
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3214,36-672018@51-671963,0.html
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/07/13/europe/web.0713london.php
Four suicide attackers carried out London bombings
The Associated Press
WEDNESDAY, JULY 13, 2005
LEEDS, England New evidence suggests four suicide bombers, including at least three Britons of Pakistani descent, carried out the terror attacks in London, officials said. Surveillance cameras captured the men as they arrived in the capital 20 minutes before the explosions began.
Police raided six homes in Leeds Tuesday searching for explosives and computer files that would shed more light on what were believed to be the first suicide bombings in Western Europe. They arrested a man, identified by the British news agency Press Association as a relative of one of the suspected bombers.
A city councilor told The Associated Press that at least three of the presumed suicide bombers were British citizens of Pakistani ancestry.
News reports have identified the suspects as Shahzad Tanweer, a 22-year-old cricket-loving sports science graduate; Hasib Hussain, 19; and Mohammed Sidique Khan, the 30-year-old father of an 8-month-old baby.
Press Association, citing police sources, said Wednesday that police had identified the fourth suspect but no name was reported.
Police have not publicly confirmed the identities of any of the suspects.
Press Association said the men had driven a rental car to Luton, 50 kilometers (30 miles) north of London, and then boarded a commuter train to London's King's Cross station. Police closed Luton's train station Tuesday and carried out nine controlled explosions on a parked car, which the BBC reported contained explosives.
Closed-circuit TV video showed all four men arriving at King's Cross by 8:30 a.m. on Thursday, about 20 minutes before the blasts began, said Peter Clarke, head of the Metropolitan Police anti-terrorist branch.
U.S. intelligence agencies are checking the names of the London bombers against their databases looking for any U.S. connection, U.S. President George W. Bush told chief executives at a private White House meeting Tuesday.
Two militant Islamic groups have claimed responsibility for the bombings, which killed at least 52 people on three subway trains and on a bus.
Although police stopped short of calling them suicide attacks, Clarke said ''strong forensic and other evidence'' suggests one of the suspects was killed in a subway bombing and property belonging to the three others was found at the locations of the other blasts.
''The investigation quite early led us to have concerns about the movements and activities of four men, three of whom came from the West Yorkshire area,'' Clarke said.
The West Yorkshire region includes Leeds, and the homes of the three suspects from the city were among the six that were searched Tuesday.
Acting on six warrants, British soldiers blasted their way into an unoccupied Leeds row house. Streets were cordoned off and about 500 people were evacuated. Hours earlier, police searched five homes elsewhere in the city. Police still weren't letting the evacuees return to their homes early Wednesday.
Mohammed Iqbal, a town councilor who represents the City-on-Hunslet section of Leeds, told AP that all of the homes raided belong to ''British citizens of Pakistani origin.''
Three of the homes were in the neighborhood he represents, Iqbal said in a phone call with AP's office in Islamabad, the Pakistani capital. He said he had just met with police about the investigation.
''This is not good for Muslims,'' Iqbal said. ''We have businesses here. There will be a backlash.''
Several officials, including Foreign Minister Jack Straw, have said the attacks bore the ''hallmark'' of al-Qaida, and one of the questions investigators are presumably trying to answer is whether the four suspects had outside help in planning the attacks.
Jeremy Shapiro, director of research at the center on the United States and Europe at the Brookings Institution, said Europeans had been involved in suicide attacks in the Middle East, but he knew of no successful suicide bombings in Western Europe previously.
Clarke said police had strong evidence that the man believed to have carried a bomb onto the subway train that exploded between the Aldgate and Liverpool Street stations died in the blast, and they were awaiting confirmation from the coroner.
One of the suspects had been reported missing by his family at 10 p.m. Thursday, and some of his property was found on the double-decker bus in which 13 died, Clarke said.
''We have now been able to establish that he was joined on his journey to London by three other men,'' he said.
Some witness accounts suggested the bus bomber may have blundered, blowing up the wrong target and accidentally killing himself. A witness who got off the crowded bus just before it exploded told AP he saw an agitated man in his 20s fiddling anxiously with something in his bag.
''This young guy kept diving into this bag or whatever he had in front of his feet, and it was like he was taking a couple of grapes off a bunch of grapes, both hands were in the bag,'' said Richard Jones, 61, of Bracknell, west of London. ''He must have done that at least every minute if not every 30 seconds.''
One theory suggested the attacker may have intended to leave his bomb on the subway but was unable to board because his coconspirators had already shut the system down.
Investigators also found personal documents bearing the names of two of the other men near seats on the Aldgate and Edgware lines. Police did not identify the men.
Leeds, about 270 kilometers (185 miles) north of London, has a population of about 715,000. About 15 percent of the residents are Muslim, and many come from a tight-knit Pakistani community, mostly from Mirpur, south of Islamabad in Pakistani-controlled Kashmir. Other pockets of the community are mostly Arab.
Khalid Muneer, 28, a spokesman for the Hyde Park Mosque in Leeds, said the community was surprised by the raids and police claims that the bombers may have come from there.
''That connection would surprise us all, even shock the whole community. We still think it's too early to say,'' he told AP, adding that Muslims in the area were not opposed to Britain.
''I've seen no calls in this area for jihad against British or American forces. You will not get that sentiment expressed around this mosque.''
Police said their investigation was moving ahead, and warned that the death toll would continue to rise. Fifty-six people remained hospitalized Tuesday. Forensics experts have said it could take weeks to identify the bodies, many of which were blown apart and would have to be identified through dental records or DNA analysis. Investigators say 11 bodies have been identified.
LEEDS, England New evidence suggests four suicide bombers, including at least three Britons of Pakistani descent, carried out the terror attacks in London, officials said. Surveillance cameras captured the men as they arrived in the capital 20 minutes before the explosions began.
Police raided six homes in Leeds Tuesday searching for explosives and computer files that would shed more light on what were believed to be the first suicide bombings in Western Europe. They arrested a man, identified by the British news agency Press Association as a relative of one of the suspected bombers.
A city councilor told The Associated Press that at least three of the presumed suicide bombers were British citizens of Pakistani ancestry.
News reports have identified the suspects as Shahzad Tanweer, a 22-year-old cricket-loving sports science graduate; Hasib Hussain, 19; and Mohammed Sidique Khan, the 30-year-old father of an 8-month-old baby.
Press Association, citing police sources, said Wednesday that police had identified the fourth suspect but no name was reported.
other articles:
http://www.elpais.es/articulo.html?d_date=&xref=20050713elpepuint_2&type=Tes&anchor=elpporint
http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3214,36-672018@51-671963,0.html