I-AA vs. I-A non-BCS


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PNeck019

New Member
Are non-BCS I-As better than elite I-AAs?

After exhaustive research, here is what I've put together. The following are the the records of non-BCS I-A schools vs. I-AAs with 8 or more wins since 1989:

East Carolina 3-0
Marshall 3-0
Wyoming 3-0
Alabama-Birmingham 2-0
Fresno State 2-0
Louisville 2-0
Toledo 2-0
Utah State 2-0
Air Force 1-0
Boise State 1-0
Central Florida 1-0
Long Beach State 1-0
Memphis 1-0
New Mexico 1-0
Southern Methodist 1-0
Tulane 1-0
Tulsa 1-0
Army 4-2
Central Michigan 2-1
Cincinnati 2-1
Eastern Michigan 2-1
Hawaii 2-1
Navy 3-2
Western Michigan 2-2
Nevada 1-1
Louisiana-Monroe 2-3
Kent State 1-2
Louisiana-Lafayette 1-2
Northern Illinois 1-3
Akron 1-5-1
Idaho 1-4
Ohio 1-4
Ball State 0-1
Colorado State 0-1
Louisiana Tech 0-1
Texas Christian 0-1
Utah 0-1
Buffalo 0-2
Middle Tennessee State 0-2
Arkansas State 0-3
UNLV 0-4

TOTALS 54-50-1
 



PNeck019,

Interesting and Intriguing breakdown.

I plan reviewing it at little closer and view that breakdown in terms of conference affiliation. Thanks for the initial work.
 
Nice stats PNeck. This greatly supports the argument that bottom-feeding D-1A programs aren't much better off than many of their I-AA counterparts. If that wasn't the case, surely there would be a larger win-loss divide between the schools compared. In fact, if it weren't for the addition of legitimately strong programs like Marshall, Fresno State, and the upper tier C-USA schools, this comparision would heavily favor the I-AA programs.
 
Originally posted by BgJag
They still get a chance to play in a bowl game.
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What bowl games? Its not like they make any profit off of it anyway. I was gonna make this post to hush JROCK up about the level of talent between good I-AA's and sorry D-IA's but I didnt feel like doin the work lol.
 
Right off of the bat, I see a flaw.....Tulane beat S.U twice. How many more errors are there? I am quite sure a bunch. Nothing personal, but I trust this list as much as I do David Duke or Unknown 1!

And didn't Troy State beat FAMU last year..........FLAWED!

UTEP beat TXSU a couple of years ago..........FLAWED!

Boise State v.s Portland St .............FLAWED

5
W
09-07-1996
33
Boise, ID
22


6
W
09-19-1998
42
Boise, ID
24



****THIS is only 5 minutes of research; that list is about as credible as Fast Eddie's word****
 
Originally posted by JROCK
Right off of the bat, I see a flaw.....Tulane beat S.U twice. How many more errors are there? I am quite sure a bunch. Nothing personal, but I trust this list as much as I do David Duke or Unknown 1!

And didn't Troy State beat FAMU last year..........FLAWED!

UTEP beat TXSU a couple of years ago..........FLAWED!
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Check my original post. The only games I considered were those involving I-AA teams with 8-plus wins. Southern did not win 8 games in 2001 or 2002, FAMU didn't win 8 in 02, Portland State didn't win 8 in 96, and TSU only won 8 games once in the 14 years I looked at.....

The purpose of this was to compare elite I-AA teams with the dregs of I-A, which is to say, teams not in the Big Six conferences.

I could list every game, but I don't know if Kenn would appreciate it.....lol
 
Your question with the abitrary data does not by any stretch of the imagination give a definitive resolution.
 
Originally posted by JROCK
Right off of the bat, I see a flaw.....Tulane beat S.U twice. How many more errors are there? I am quite sure a bunch. Nothing personal, but I trust this list as much as I do David Duke or Unknown 1!

And didn't Troy State beat FAMU last year..........FLAWED!

UTEP beat TXSU a couple of years ago..........FLAWED!

Boise State v.s Portland St .............FLAWED

5
W
09-07-1996
33
Boise, ID
22


6
W
09-19-1998
42
Boise, ID
24



****THIS is only 5 minutes of research; that list is about as credible as Fast Eddie's word****
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Ya'll kill me when you comment before you actually READ the post.
 
Originally posted by unknown1
Ya'll kill me when you comment before you actually READ the post.
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Yall kill me when you endorse and manipulate figures to prove a point that is not true. You can play with all the numbers you care. The fact of the matter is 1-A BCS or non BCS is heads and heels over 1-AA. Having said that the school you go to (Ga. Tech) should be in the Southern Conference.
 
Arbitrary?

My point is that just putting a rubber stamp on a school saying "Division I-A" does not automatically make it better than a good I-AA team.

In fact, I believe it more prudent-and far more economical-to become an elite I-AA team (i.e. one that wins 8 or more games).

JRock, Boise State did beat Portland State in 1996, but PSU had fewer than 8 wins. However, Boise State also LOST to two I-AA schools that same season. These schools also did NOT have 8 wins. There are many examples of this. The 50 wins by I-AAs listed here are not the only ones. I can think of a 6-5 SFA beating La Tech a couple of years ago that I didn't use either.

Also, I didn't pick and choose teams to suit my purpose. My goal was to attempt to select the "elite" from I-AA and the "dregs" from I-A.

I had to set up some parameters defining the above terms.

Elite= I-AA team with 8 or more wins

Dregs=I-A teams not in a BCS conference
 
Originally posted by Killer Bees
If this is in reference to ASU playing UAB twice, this is wrong. We beat UAB boths times.
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No, UAB's wins were over Western Kentucky in 1996 and 1997. When you played them, they weren't I-A yet.
 
8 win seasons since 1989:

Grambling-89, 90, 92, 94, 00, 01, 02
Jackson State-89, 90, 95, 96, 97, 99
Southern-93, 95, 97, 98, 99
Alabama State-90, 91, 95, 01
Alcorn State-93, 94
Pine Bluff-97, 98
Alabama A&M-02
Texas Southern-00
Mississippi Valley State-XX
Prairie View A&M-XX

Settle down, Bulldogs, these are I-AA seasons.....
 



Nice work PNeck!!!

I agree going I-A does not immediately make your program better than all I-AA programs. It still takes money and a lot of other things.

I'm interested in how much additional $$$$ a team can gain just by being affiliated with a certain I-A conference.... Such as Bowl money, TV contracts, etc.

Let's compare Conf USA vs SWAC/Southland. Do you know the numbers for these conference. I'm only talking money the conference passes out, not what each team makes on its own.

I'll take a guess that the last place CUSA team get more money than the first place SWAC/Southland teams. In fact, I don't think the SWAC passes any money to each of the teams.
 
I think too many of you put the emphaisis on moving up to 1A on wins, ands losses. Unless you play in a BCS conference, no matter how many wins you get, it still doesn't amount to a hill of beans. The BCS Champ is the recognized champ in college football, so if you're 1AA, II, III, or NAIA champ, it's the BCS winner on the cover of SI, the top story of Sportscenter, nobody else.

I guess some of you haven't realized yet, that these schools moving up to non-BCS conferences, know they're not going to play for a national title, they know they're going to get their heads beat in on a week to week basis, and all of the other points that those against a move up have made. These things have obviously been thought out by the administrations, and those involved with the program.

There are so many other factors involved in moving up, that schools don't care how many wins, or losses they incur with their move up. At the end of the day, it all comes down to how financially feasible the move is to that institution, how much publicity the school recieves by being 1A, what's the overall effect on the atheltic deparment as a whole, how that instituition is able to recruit against other schools in their state, and a host of other things.

No matter how many times you throw up numbers, throw insults, and strengthen your case, nobody is going to change their minds as to which side of the fence they're standing on. For every point that is made, there's a counterpoint, so why is topic rehashed every week?

NICE
 
Originally posted by D-NICE
I
At the end of the day, it all comes down to how financially feasible the move is to that institution, how much publicity the school recieves by being 1A, what's the overall effect on the atheltic deparment as a whole, how that instituition is able to recruit against other schools in their state, and a host of other things.

No matter how many times you throw up numbers, throw insults, and strengthen your case, nobody is going to change their minds as to which side of the fence they're standing on. For every point that is made, there's a counterpoint, so why is topic rehashed every week?

NICE
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DITTO!
 
That's a helluva way to get recruits. "We're gonna get our arses whipped, but the school will make lots of money. Oh by the way, you get none of it, so enjoy your 10 wins in four years and have a nice life."

I also believe some of the more fiscally responsible I-AAs make more money than the bottom-feeding I-As, i.e. Montana vs. La-Monroe.
 
Originally posted by PNeck019
That's a helluva way to get recruits. "We're gonna get our arses whipped, but the school will make lots of money.
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This is another flawed statement. Smart scheduling trumps your statement.
 
Originally posted by PNeck019

I also believe some of the more fiscally responsible I-AAs make more money than the bottom-feeding I-As, i.e. Montana vs. La-Monroe.
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I think you missed that part.
 
Originally posted by unknown1
I think you missed that part.
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I should have clarified myself. While ULM may have more money coming in, they have a LOT more going out. So my point was, the net at schools like Montana, Georgia Southern, Youngstown, etc. is better.

What good does it do to bring in more money if you're going to spend so much more?
 
PNECK, I think the thing you're missing is, if it was so bad at the 1A level, only the BCS schools would be there. The rest of the mid-major, to low level 1A's would just drop down to 1-AA.

There must be some incentive at that level that you can't research to post the numbers as to why schools that are losing big money at that level are staying there. Also, there must be an even greater incentive that schools at the 1-AA level, though they see the hardships of some who've made the same jump, they would still want to do the same.

Maybe we can ask Marshall, why they jumped from being a 1-AA power, and trade winning the national title, or playing for it on a consistent basis, to winning, or playing in the lowly Motor City Bowl?

Oh, as far as your recruiting statement goes, I don't see Rutgers, Temple, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Duke, or the like, fielding teams though they're consistant losers that's constantly getting their arses handed to them.

NICE
 
Originally posted by D-NICE
PNECK, I think the thing you're missing is, if it was so bad at the 1A level, only the BCS schools would be there. The rest of the mid-major, to low level 1A's would just drop down to 1-AA.


NICE
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Using that theory, every school that isnt making a profit would have moved down to NAIA by now. There are PLENTY of teams in D-IA that can barely compete with the upper echelon of D-IAA in revenue or football...let alone D-IA. That doesnt mean they're necessarily going to move down...but you'd better believe there are plenty of them out there considering it. What incentive is there to be up there if you're

1. Not profiting
2. Not winning
3. Not getting stellar recruits


As far as Marshall, look at what they did on the D-IAA level BEFORE they chose to move up. Even now they arent making any money and are in the "click" of schools that are anti-BCS because they've hit a glass ceiling. If they cant compete for a national championship im sure sooner or later they'll wonder what the purpose of moving up was soon.
 
LOL, ok, ok...

I think this thread has taken a tone I didn't want.

My goal was just to present some facts, not to argue my point of view.

I do not believe that the Tulane et al lawsuit is going to bear any fruit. All it's gonna do is piss the big boys off more I believe. Not saying it's right, just a reality.

Those of us who have an opinion one way or the other on the I-A issue are probably not going to change our minds. But at least we can have fun arguing about it! LOL

Damm, August 30 can't get here soon enough! Wish it would so we could talk about ON-field stuff.....
 
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