Homosexuality 'Born' with it or 'Buck with it?


Another thing, it makes me violently ill to see those twirlers from JSU and AAMU. :vomit: :vomit: :vomit:

One of my friends said, after seeing AAMU's band perform and the really gay twirler pants split and he tippy toed ran off the field, that he would rather his son be a drug addict than a fag, because you can't rehab a punk. I'm afraid, he's right. :smh: I would cry a million tears if my son was gay and then twirling. Damn.
 

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Seeing Spots said:
One of my friends said, after seeing AAMU's band perform and the really gay twirler pants split and he tippy toed ran off the field, that he would rather his son be a drug addict than a fag, because you can't rehab a punk.
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Please stop!! Youre making me hurt.:lol:
 
Educate yourselves on the FACTS about homosexuality before making ignorant statements. IT'S Genetic. You do the research. Iv'e done it already. I hate to sound condecending but everytime I engage in this debate and provide Scientific facts about it people ignore facts in favor of opinion. If you want me to provide links to Scientific journals and studies that have proven it's genetic I would be more than happy to do so.
 
I feel that's it's a choice and I know many of you feel differently. I'm a Christian and so I see most things from that point of view, so be patient w/ me if you dont.

my question is what exactly is gay? kissing someone of the same sex? intercourse w/ one of the same sex? liking someone of the same sex? what is gay? In my mind your not gay unless you act on what ever feelings you have. so for the brother that might like guys but has made a "decision" not to entertain the possibility of a same sex relationship, I don't regard him as gay, at risk maybe, but not gay. same for someone who may have done it in the past but has "decided" not to. that doesn't mean they dont slip up but they've made a conscience choice not to go there.

You see, I believe that we're different from most others animals on this planet. we don't operate primarily on instinct. Instead we think and reason, or at least have the ability to do so. so none of our behaviour can be placed in the "born that way" bin. If I cheat on my wife, I can't say well you know, I was born this way, I just gotta have every woman I see. It's a choice, for some a more conscience choice than others.

I know some will say you have to "be yourself". well, as a Christian I'm taught to deny myself and follow Christ. we're all supposed to be in the business of denying ourselves....being less like me and more like Him. for this reason I believe that someone who has lived a gay lifestyle can choice to turn away from it, w/ of the help of JC. doesn't mean that they will not feel that way. some might be totally delivered and find love and marriage w/ someone of the opposite sex. others may also be delivered, still carry an attraction for those of the same sex, but find enough strength in Christ and support from the brothers and sisters that they don't go back to it.

so, I believe some might, from the beginning have a preference for those of the same sex. others for a variety of reasons (parental abdonment, abuse by someone of the opposite sex, experimentation...etc) make a choice (regardless of the pain that led to that choice) to give it a shot. to me it makes no difference....what does matter is what choice you make after that.

we've got to love our brothers and sisters enough to tell them the truth...and tell them the truth b/c we love them, not because we are condemning them.
 
Great thread, but I dunno whether to :lol: or :smh: or :shame: at some of these responses...


Is being gay a lifesyle choice, or is it something you're born with?


both....


The truth is somewhere in between for individual folk; There are instances where you've got people that turn to homosexuality because of a specific series of events or a traumatic experience that effects that change.


For example, getting raped (for a man or a woman ) is a traumatic experience. Folks in the medical community are still uncovering how events involving physical and psychological trauma can damage the mental health of an individual.

Check out the stats on women that endure sexual assault and/or rape at a young age and see how many of them have abnormal relationships with other folks, much less sexual ones. It affects different folks in different ways. The scientific community is still finding new stuff out about this.


As for the genetic issue, there are some things that need to be clarified before we go any further:


1) A genetic cause for an affliction does not necessarily mean a hereditary one.

(Is there a gene that causes homosexuality? the jury is still out on that. Are there hereditary or static genetic conditions that leave a person missing certain chemical or hormonal components that may make them masculine or feminine when they come into this world? Absolutely. Go to your nearest friendly neighborhood medical journal and look up the guy that's born with working, lactating breasts, or the woman that maybe born with a male thyroid system *i.e. adams apple, mail hair, male genetailia*. Those are just physical manifestations.


2) Behavior can be influenced by hereditary factors:

(No, there isn't a gene in black folk that makes them more violent than whites. There is evidence that certain violent behavior can be traced to mental illness, which can be hereditary and genetically traced through families for generations. Types of Schizophrenia are genetically based in nature and can be traced through family lineage. Why is it such a leap that certain types of homosexual behavior can't be examined along the same lines?)


There's alot more to this than "choice". Sexual behavior is indeed learned on many levels, but we also have a predisposition for masculine or feminie traits...

Expalin the choosing mechanism for a 5 year old boy to feel more comfortable in a dress than a pair of jeans, or a woman that's had male characteristics all her life (i.e. testosterone, deep foice, adams' apple, other male characteristics) choosing to live like as a man...

Simply "enjoying" it and not caring just don't cut it; That might be the case if society at large didn't see it as taboo. We wouldn't see the "down-low" scene if that were really the case.


I have no doubt that there are folks oout there that choose to be homosexual because it's a choice of convenience. however, there are just as many folks out there that don't know why they like Johnny more than the hot sista next door, or why the sista doesn't like dudes at all.


It's just not that cut and dry, yall...
 
major095 said:
I feel that's it's a choice and I know many of you feel differently. I'm a Christian and so I see most things from that point of view, so be patient w/ me if you dont.

my question is what exactly is gay? kissing someone of the same sex? intercourse w/ one of the same sex? liking someone of the same sex? what is gay? In my mind your not gay unless you act on what ever feelings you have. so for the brother that might like guys but has made a "decision" not to entertain the possibility of a same sex relationship, I don't regard him as gay, at risk maybe, but not gay. same for someone who may have done it in the past but has "decided" not to. that doesn't mean they dont slip up but they've made a conscience choice not to go there.

You see, I believe that we're different from most others animals on this planet. we don't operate primarily on instinct. Instead we think and reason, or at least have the ability to do so. so none of our behaviour can be placed in the "born that way" bin. If I cheat on my wife, I can't say well you know, I was born this way, I just gotta have every woman I see. It's a choice, for some a more conscience choice than others.

I know some will say you have to "be yourself". well, as a Christian I'm taught to deny myself and follow Christ. we're all supposed to be in the business of denying ourselves....being less like me and more like Him. for this reason I believe that someone who has lived a gay lifestyle can choice to turn away from it, w/ of the help of JC. doesn't mean that they will not feel that way. some might be totally delivered and find love and marriage w/ someone of the opposite sex. others may also be delivered, still carry an attraction for those of the same sex, but find enough strength in Christ and support from the brothers and sisters that they don't go back to it.

so, I believe some might, from the beginning have a preference for those of the same sex. others for a variety of reasons (parental abdonment, abuse by someone of the opposite sex, experimentation...etc) make a choice (regardless of the pain that led to that choice) to give it a shot. to me it makes no difference....what does matter is what choice you make after that.

we've got to love our brothers and sisters enough to tell them the truth...and tell them the truth b/c we love them, not because we are condemning them.
Click to expand...


So,

does the schizophrenic or the manic depressive choose to be that way? for a long time, folks chalked up mental disorders to "guilt" or a ruse for folks to ge out of whatever situation they were in.


I have no doubt that you have some folks out there that choose to live this lifestyle because of convenience or because it's a "forbidden fruit" of sorts...For those folks, I agree with you with every fiber of my being.

The only thing I'm saying is that you just can't paint this with a broad brush, especially when there's alot of concrete evidence that points to other possibilities for folk.
 
major095 said:
... In my mind your not gay unless you act on what ever feelings you have. so for the brother that might like guys but has made a "decision" not to entertain the possibility of a same sex relationship, I don't regard him as gay, at risk maybe, but not gay.

You see, I believe that we're different from most others animals on this planet. we don't operate primarily on instinct. Instead we think and reason, or at least have the ability to do so. so none of our behaviour can be placed in the "born that way" bin. If I cheat on my wife, I can't say well you know, I was born this way, I just gotta have every woman I see. It's a choice, for some a more conscience choice than others.
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I think most of you are still missing the point. I am a Christian too and I don't buy the God don't make mistakes rule. Everyone is made different. The mentally retardard are not a mistake either...they were just born that way. Some people born with mental illnesses were born to kill.

I don't buy the whole, you are not gay unless you act upon it thing. If you are gay, you are gay. It has nothing to do with an act. That is like saying a virgin is not straight until she has sex. Whether a person has sex or not had nothing to do with his/her sexual orientation.

Cheating on your wife is a good example. Yes that is something that takes will power but you are not suppressing your "natural" urge when you deny yourself other women. You are denying yourself of greed,selfishness, etc... But where did the urge to want to cheat come from? Did you sit around and ask for that urge or did it come to you naturally? Did you consciously become straight?? I think that what a lot of you need to do is actually think about how hard much harder it would be to deny yourself of cheating on your spouse than it would be to totally change your attraction to the opposite sex. WHOLE different ball game!!! One thing should seem impossible to you while the other should be accomplished by trying hard to stand strong. To me, that is a major difference. Also, cheating on your wife is DECISION that you can make while you are an adult. Again, in 99.9% of the cases, I have read and heard about, gays know they are "different" before they even know what gay is!!

Also, if people who molest/rape children repeatedly and kidnap them for sex and kill them are treated as mental cases, why are homosexuals not considered mental cases?? I never even knew that people REALLY had anal sex until I graduated from college. I always thought "getting booty" was a saying or a tramatic prison experience. I never thought it could REALLY be an enjoyable experience for some. I knew people could be gay but I thought they just did oral and bumping/humping. Do you have to be crazy to want it up your butt or is it a pain/pleasure thing??
 
Olde Hornet said:
Why? You dont believe that science can prove something true or false? Have you rejected science?
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Naw...I haven't rejected science, but I do believe that when one relies essentially on science alonethere is bound to be several problems that will occur. Science alone can't answer some of the most puzzling questions in our universe, and sometimes faith is the suitable answer. It is what it is! We make things so damn complicated at times and we refute facts just because Science said so.

Well....fkuc Science, because Science can't determine or explain what will happen to me when I die, or why karma comes back to bite us in the arse, or why those boats get lost in the Bermuda triangle! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My problem with Science is that so much of our society seeks to lean on it for everything. And the fact remains that Science can't explain everything! That's all! But to answer your question...yes science can answer some questions, but if you are refering to homosexuality....I doubt it.

Tricks of the devil I tell ya! :smh:
 
lil_j said:
Educate yourselves on the FACTS about homosexuality before making ignorant statements. IT'S Genetic. You do the research. Iv'e done it already. I hate to sound condecending but everytime I engage in this debate and provide Scientific facts about it people ignore facts in favor of opinion. If you want me to provide links to Scientific journals and studies that have proven it's genetic I would be more than happy to do so.
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Post 'em then got dammit! :emlaugh:
 
coldsweat said:
Post 'em then got dammit! :emlaugh:
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Will you actually take the time to thourougly read the scientific links? Based on your previous post it seems science has no bearing on your opinion so it would be pointless.
 
You said you would post them if someone wanted to read them. Someone has asked you to post them, and you question the validity of the request?

:confused:

Anyway,

I don't know if it is genetic or not, but I WILL say that among the girl crazy boys in my 5th/6th grade building, there are some boys who OBVIOUSLY ARE NOT GIRL CRAZY, if you catch my meaning.

Hip swishing, lip smacking, future flag twirlers, and they come from heterosexual, two parent families.

I cannot believe that they CHOOSE to be ridiculed the way they are at school, at such a young age.

But, wtf do I know?
 
Vinita said:
You said you would post them if someone wanted to read them. Someone has asked you to post them, and you question the validity of the request?

:confused:

Anyway,

I don't know if it is genetic or not, but I WILL say that among the girl crazy boys in my 5th/6th grade building, there are some boys who OBVIOUSLY ARE NOT GIRL CRAZY, if you catch my meaning.

Hip swishing, lip smacking, future flag twirlers, and they come from heterosexual, two parent families.

I cannot believe that they CHOOSE to be ridiculed the way they are at school, at such a young age.

But, wtf do I know?
Click to expand...

Everyone has seen it, but many refuse to view it as reality because it does not fit in their religious prism.
 

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lil_j said:
Educate yourselves on the FACTS about homosexuality before making ignorant statements. IT'S Genetic. You do the research. Iv'e done it already. I hate to sound condecending but everytime I engage in this debate and provide Scientific facts about it people ignore facts in favor of opinion. If you want me to provide links to Scientific journals and studies that have proven it's genetic I would be more than happy to do so.
Click to expand...

Science says that man evolved from micro organisms in the sea, then turned to monkeys and evolved into humans.

Genesis tells me different.

Which do you choose to believe?
 
crazylegs said:
So,

does the schizophrenic or the manic depressive choose to be that way? for a long time, folks chalked up mental disorders to "guilt" or a ruse for folks to ge out of whatever situation they were in.


I have no doubt that you have some folks out there that choose to live this lifestyle because of convenience or because it's a "forbidden fruit" of sorts...For those folks, I agree with you with every fiber of my being.

The only thing I'm saying is that you just can't paint this with a broad brush, especially when there's alot of concrete evidence that points to other possibilities for folk.
Click to expand...


you missed my point.....I'm not even debating if some people develop a natural preference for someone of the same gender very early in life. I believe that does occur. I do find it odd that we adults try and subscribe some type of sexual orientation on children, most of whom have exhibited no sexual behavior, but I digress. my point is that who or what you are is in your hands, it's your choice regardless of what your natural preference is.

for example...since some of you are big on science. many years ago a study was released that indicated that some people are born with a gene(s) that make them more likely to become alcholics than the average person. now, because they have that gene is it ok for them to be alcholics... I mean, they were born that way. if they can't hold down a job, if they hurt someone in an auto accident b/c they were drunk, and after all....they have the gene, that excuses them right? of course not, b/c after all is said or done it is still their choice to put the bottle to their lips. and in the case that they know they are at risk for alcholism it's their responsibilty to steer as far away from consuming alchol as possible.

using the same train of thought, if one has a genetic predispostion for homosexuality, what is their responsibility in regard to their behavior? (now this applies only to Christians, I don't expect people that dont love JC to follow His rules) it would be their responsibility, knowing the get weak in the knees when they go into the lockerroom w/ the fellas to stay outta the lockerroom....if your not trying to sleep w/ another man that is.

their is no absolving personal responsibility. to say otherwise and to just say "I was born this way and can't help it" is to say, I have no more power over my actions than does my dog. again, why should you deny yourself? as a Christian we are taught that we are to deny ourselves, less me more Him.

finally, both of my daughters were born with sickle cell. they could not help it. what they do have a choice in though is if it will be a burden. we choice that it won't. we also choice to not accept that b/c they were born with it means they will live a lifetime with it. maybe you or others feel that they don't have choices. I do, and let me tell ya, it feels pretty good to know I can chose to follow One who can deliver me from anything that comes my way.

homosexuality used to be a recognized mental disorder, but was removed from dsr IV I believe. nymphomania was still a recognized mental disorder until 1987 (so don't blame that brother that cheated on you in highschool....you were at the wrong part of your cycle and he just had to get some.....it's ok right, he was born that way..lol)
 
While I don't really believe there's a genetic link to homosexuality, one can easily raise a vaild argument, when basing their assertion off instances where young children exhibit 'abnormal' traits and tendencies, when they are cognitively too young to make such decisions. Or are they?

I offer this analogy: compare homosexuality (and it's origins) to the disposition of being either right handed or left handed.....

No matter how much you try to rationalize a 'singular cause', the fact remains that right-handedness or left-handedness is a result of 'natural selection'. A child can be taught to be ambidextrous, but when left alone, the child will choose that (hand) which is most comfortable. Even when children try to imitate what they witness (if the parents wrote with a particular hand), that doesn't guarantee that the child will be comfortable writing with that hand as well. There have been studies done when adults (who have written with one hand all of their life) can be taught to write with the other hand, and in a very short period of time (days, not weeks or months) are able to write as elegantly (if not moreso) with the 'new' hand, as compared to the 'old' hand. You could then debate the fact that the adult was mistaken in his/her 'selection' (earlier in life) and was simply writing with the 'inferior' hand all of these years..... But the opposite outcome is also just as likely as well. You may not be able to teach an adult to be 'even-handed' no matter how much they practice. They're simply 'pre-disposed' to write with whatever hand they learned (to write) with...... Thus there's no 'singular' answer to this question....


The same relation can be made when discussing the origins of homosexuality.... There is no 'singular' answer thats 'fits' every situation.....

 
I don't think people are BORN gay....Even the most feminine man makes THE CHOICE to be with a man.....and vice versa.....(most masculine woman).
 
major095 said:
you missed my point.....I'm not even debating if some people develop a natural preference for someone of the same gender very early in life. I believe that does occur. I do find it odd that we adults try and subscribe some type of sexual orientation on children, most of whom have exhibited no sexual behavior, but I digress. my point is that who or what you are is in your hands, it's your choice regardless of what your natural preference is.

for example...since some of you are big on science. many years ago a study was released that indicated that some people are born with a gene(s) that make them more likely to become alcholics than the average person. now, because they have that gene is it ok for them to be alcholics... I mean, they were born that way. if they can't hold down a job, if they hurt someone in an auto accident b/c they were drunk, and after all....they have the gene, that excuses them right? of course not, b/c after all is said or done it is still their choice to put the bottle to their lips. and in the case that they know they are at risk for alcholism it's their responsibilty to steer as far away from consuming alchol as possible.

using the same train of thought, if one has a genetic predispostion for homosexuality, what is their responsibility in regard to their behavior? (now this applies only to Christians, I don't expect people that dont love JC to follow His rules) it would be their responsibility, knowing the get weak in the knees when they go into the lockerroom w/ the fellas to stay outta the lockerroom....if your not trying to sleep w/ another man that is.

their is no absolving personal responsibility. to say otherwise and to just say "I was born this way and can't help it" is to say, I have no more power over my actions than does my dog. again, why should you deny yourself? as a Christian we are taught that we are to deny ourselves, less me more Him.

finally, both of my daughters were born with sickle cell. they could not help it. what they do have a choice in though is if it will be a burden. we choice that it won't. we also choice to not accept that b/c they were born with it means they will live a lifetime with it. maybe you or others feel that they don't have choices. I do, and let me tell ya, it feels pretty good to know I can chose to follow One who can deliver me from anything that comes my way.

homosexuality used to be a recognized mental disorder, but was removed from dsr IV I believe. nymphomania was still a recognized mental disorder until 1987 (so don't blame that brother that cheated on you in highschool....you were at the wrong part of your cycle and he just had to get some.....it's ok right, he was born that way..lol)
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I didn't say anything about absolving personal accountability from the lifestyle choices you make. That has nothing to do with why a person is inclined to feel the way they do or why they're attracted to a specific gender. If anything, a person would be shirking that accountibility if they weren't honest with themselves about whatever crisis they're facing involving their sexual identity, especially prior to interacting with other folk.


Yeah, some folks choose to ignore it and get into heterosexual relationships, hoping that how they feel will somehow just "go away". Then, years down the line (when the issue hasn't "gone away"), you've got a situation where a man (or woman) is conflicted about who they are and why they are...

Then folks wonder what's wrong with these cats that step out of their marriages on the DL with someone else of the same gender. what could drive someone to do that in the first place? They wasn't being honest with themselves in the first place and tried to bury the conflict rather than addressing it.


You can't compare this to someone whose born with sickle cell (BTW, it's good to see your seeds flourishing!!!! :smash: :nod2: :tup: ), or tay-sachs, or whatever...

You ignore sickle cell and it will kill you; You ignore tay-sachs, or Multiple Sclerosis, or Lou Gherig's disease and you'll be pushing up daisies before you can pronounce the disease.


It's the same premise with folks in this situation...Is that person accountable for his or her actions?


Absolutely...But we're (collectively) just as accountable for trying to understand why things like this happen the way they do. Whether you explain it away as something that completely choice-driven, or examine the evidence at hand and look for other reasons or causes.


I'm christian also...That doesn't absolve me from looking to find out how and why things are the way they are...there are some instances of homosexuality that's entirely personal choice...There are also instances where the person had a pre-disposition for it for the great majority of their lives, or they were born with it.



Does the schizophrenic take personal responsibility for being insane? Did he choose to be insane? Is it a condition that he can reverse whenever he wants to?

There's alot more to tis than just "he chose to do it because it feels good."
 
coldsweat said:
Naw...I haven't rejected science, but I do believe that when one relies essentially on science alonethere is bound to be several problems that will occur. Science alone can't answer some of the most puzzling questions in our universe, and sometimes faith is the suitable answer. It is what it is! We make things so damn complicated at times and we refute facts just because Science said so.

Well....fkuc Science, because Science can't determine or explain what will happen to me when I die, or why karma comes back to bite us in the arse, or why those boats get lost in the Bermuda triangle! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My problem with Science is that so much of our society seeks to lean on it for everything. And the fact remains that Science can't explain everything! That's all! But to answer your question...yes science can answer some questions, but if you are refering to homosexuality....I doubt it.

Tricks of the devil I tell ya! :smh:
Click to expand...

You remind me of Shurb... LOL :bump:
 
LadyLuck13 said:
I don't think people are BORN gay....Even the most feminine man makes THE CHOICE to be with a man.....and vice versa.....(most masculine woman).
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But WHERE does this choice come from? This has nothing to do with choice but the origin of why one would want to make that choice. Whether a man sleeps with another man or not does not mean he is not gay. You can have a man who could live to be 70 years old and never have sex with a man but boned several women but still he could have been GAY!!! I am sure that some of our grandparents were gay but HAD to sleep with women/men becasue they had no other choice but to be something that they were not. Even if a feminine man makes the CHOICE to be with a man...why was he feminine in the first place?? I think many of you are jumping to the middle of the problem. By the time this CHOICE is made, the person is ALREADY gay whether it was from birth or some early childhood trauma.
 
I'm impressed at the dialogue taking place in this forum. The world would be a better place if we all could sit down in earnest and talk about a host of things.
 
There is something I do not understand about the "gene" theory and if it has been disscussed please just point me to the post.

If homosexuality is genetic then how is it propogated if the tendency caused by the genetic difference is to partake in non-reproductive sexual activity? How does this genetic occurence just keep popping up out of the blue on a seemingly consistent basis with the same results? Shouldn't this be rare like some of the other recessive gene or non dominant gene differences? Are there other genetic characteristics that follow this pattern? I just don't see how this would not die off if it was genetic. Are there alot of people that fight the tendencies and reproduce?

I have also noticed a misconception about the term "lifestyle choice". There is a difference between attraction and action. The lifestyle choice is the choice to act on the attraction. The question is why is there a same sex attraction in the first place. That could either be genetic or through something that happened early in a child's life.
 
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