Hassan, a discussion about what Muslims believe...

[hassan]

Now did you ever answer me about if you purchased your home and car and other high ticket items in cash? My Muslim friends have a great difficulty with this because it is one of the basic tenets of the Islamic faith. They all have mortgages and pay cars "on time", but most of them have short term mortgages. :lol: They want to live RIGHT!

I answered it ... sort of.

*I won't go into specifics because, unlike a lot of the folks on Small Talk, i'm not trying to put ALL of my personal business on the world wide web.



But regarding what you shared about your Muslim friends, it is hard to do right as a person of faith while living in this world (but i know a lot of Christians that say the same thing).

*On a side note, i saw in yesterday's Houston Chronicle how the the biggest spenders on lottery tickets were folks with the least education....

S-squared - it's all good sistergurl :tup:

Post Scriptum: I like your Mardi Gras mask

 

[Seeing Spots]

I answered it ... sort of.

*I won't go into specifics because, unlike a lot of the folks on Small Talk, i'm not trying to put ALL of my personal business on the world wide web.



But regarding what you shared about your Muslim friends, it is hard to do right as a person of faith while living in this world (but i know a lot of Christians that say the same thing).

*On a side note, i saw in yesterday's Houston Chronicle how the the biggest spenders on lottery tickets were folks with the least education....

S-squared - it's all good sistergurl :tup:

Post Scriptum: I like your Mardi Gras mask

We need to KNOW more about the different ways the peoples of the world FIND God Almighty! And we can do that without condemning, without being judgmental...and without imposing our beliefs down other folks' throat by ridiculing what is different. Different people, different faiths, different SECTS.

Hey, did you know within the Baptist denomination there are many sects? Missionary Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Southern Baptist, Full Gospel Baptist, Baptist Baptist? The primary difference is the means, modes, manner in which we practice our doctrine.

about the poorest are the ones buying lottery tickets and in the casinos!

You know that Mardi Gras mask is just to "embrace" the season! :lmao: I am a dyed in the wool North LA Baptist...I really don't care for Mardi Gras (which is blasphemous to say!!!). I just enjoy the 2 days off from work and the Kings Cakes. :gift:

 

[hassan]

...did you know within the Baptist denomination there are many sects? Missionary Baptist, Primitive Baptist, Southern Baptist, Full Gospel Baptist, Baptist Baptist? The primary difference is the means, modes, manner in which we practice our doctrine.

Yup. :nod:

You know that Mardi Gras mask is just to "embrace" the season! :lmao: I am a dyed in the wool North LA Baptist...I really don't care for Mardi Gras (which is blasphemous to say!!!). I just enjoy the 2 days off from work and the Kings Cakes. :gift:

be careful - that's a slippery slope

 

[hassan]

.... i am grateful that i don't hear Muslims finding things that will condemn someone to eternal damnation (or even temporary damnation) like, unfortunately, i've heard so many other folks do over my lifetime.

I cannot speak for other folks but hearing...

You're going to hell for this....!

and

You're going to hell for that....!

et cetera

... gets tired and I don't ever want to become tired of anything associated with God.

man, it's funny how some things just "pop up" when mentioned
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People better realize this stuff....







I am sorry...My only point is if you saved (or so you think) and you feel that no matter what you do that you can still go to heaven.....You are a fool.....

 

[BLAQUE PRINCE]

On fanatic: Would you believe I got in trouble with my peers in Poli Sci class last semester for saying that Islam isn't at odds with democracy any more than Evangelical fanatics are at odds with what's really "Christian"? You would've thought NO ONE knows anything about the word "fanatic" other than "Fundamentalism" must be a part of it. :shame:

Funny thing about it is that those people are like that because they are.......fanatics lol. They are TV fanatics. They here the word on the news and don't bother to question what it really means or how it applies for themselves but are quick to spit it back out. :shame:

 

[hassan]

Okay, i've been getting telephone calls and emails asking me to "cut and paste" what i wrote about jihad in the "denomination thread" over on this thread.

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...one of the most beautiful concepts in al-Islam: jihad.

Jihad has become to many Eurocentric people a buzz word for fear and pain.

The sad thing about this is that that has nothing to do with the actual meaning of the word.

Jihad actually means spiritual self-cleaning. Anything that one does to get past whatever gets in one's way as he/she strives to get closer to God is jihad. Getting up in the morning for pre-dawn prayers when one is exhausted and wants to sleep is jihad. Resisting the temptation to maintain fast when hunger is kicking your butt is jihad. Not cursing someone out that just ran you off of the road and into a ditch is jihad.

Jihad is not terrorism (the killing of innocents is unholy and is, therefore, pushing you further away from God). However, the eurocentric connotation of the word makes everyone think otherwise.

 

[hassan]

jihad

BTW, for those of you wondering ... no, one does not have to be Muslim to benefit from successful jihad.


For example, resisting the temptation of the devil was jihad for Jesus.

In fact, students at the University of California - Riverside held a symposium called "The Jihad of Jesus."

 

[Seeing Spots]

Okay, i've been getting telephone calls and emails asking me to "cut and paste" what i wrote about jihad in the "denomination thread" over on this thread.

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People actually CALLED you and EMAILED to have you answer about jihad placed over here? I would have move it over myself.

And that thread was entitled WHAT SECT TO YOU BELONG TO. My Muslim friends laughed their behinds off when I told them you only wanted to further discussion only if sects were called "denominations". Malik said, "Wow, that is only a PROTESTANT aberration!" :lmao: I explained to him that you are not a member of a sect and don't identify with any of the Muslim sects, you are a non-denominational Muslim. He nearly split his gut then!!! :lol:

 

[hassan]

I didn't say I was non-denominational (you did, Boo).

I don't mind using "sect" with al-Islam if we can use the same term with Christianity.

*I hope your husband does not mind all of this attention you're paying me.

 

[Seeing Spots]

I didn't say I was non-denominational (you did, Boo).

I don't mind using "sect" with al-Islam if we can use the same term with Christianity.

*I hope your husband does not mind all of this attention you're paying me.

I'm not married! That's a lie you were told by someone else.

I can't say I am OF the Baptist sect, because it is a denomination of the Protestant faith.

Potato/Poetatoe
Tomato/Toematoe

Just like in Juvenile Court we use different words for the same actions: adjudication for trial; appearance for arraignment; disposition for sentencing...a rose by any other name, to paraphrase Shakespeare! :hat:

What difference does it make? :dizzy:

 

[hassan]

What difference does it make? :dizzy:

I don't know. ?Why do you insist on using the term?

*Stay tuned Sister - i have something just ... for ... YOU.

 

[hassan]

Women are celebrated in al-Islam

"Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER........."

Quran 3:195

 

[hassan]

"Their Lord responded to them: "I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER........." Quran 3:195

Perhaps the biggest misconception about al-Islam is that women are treated poorly. That is very far from the truth.



While it is true that, sadly, some Muslim men do treat their women very poorly that is indicative of unIslamic local customs.



For example, the Qu'ran does not command women to wear hijab. The specifics call for modesty in dress (eg. women - and men, too - are not to wear clothes that fits so that the outline of the body is plainly visible).



Islam was - if i recall correctly - the first "social order" of any kind that afforded women certain rights such as the right to own property, to divorce, to inheritance, et cetera that many so-called "Christian nations did not enact until the past 75 - 100 years.



The essence of Islam is what teaches us that the best among us in the eyes of God is he that treats his mother and wife the best.



I'll post some more on "gender issues" (including marriage et al) if you like.

 

[hassan]

On a related note:

Muslims are expected to take self-discipline very seriously. If you recall, during my brief discussion of The Five Pillars of Faith i touched on fasting.

For Muslims, fasting - especially during Ramadan - is supposed to be absolute: no food, no drink, no sex with your spouse during daylight hours.

I mention "no sex with your spouse" because it should be understood that Muslims should not engage in "unmarried relations" (any more than Christians, of course) therefore the "abstinence during Ramadan" applies to all non-married Muslims year-round.

It is VERY serious to us and other folks must be taking note as evidenced by this under-reported news item

 

[Seeing Spots]

Hassan, thanks for those words from the Qu'ran regarding women. I always viewed that women are treated as second class citizens in the Islamic faith. And my female friends who are Muslim are always explaining to me that the is not true. However, I know that in the "orthodox" exercise of Islam, like in Saudi Arabia, women are not allowed a lot of freedoms, like owning property, bank accounts, etc. This summer I will travel to Africa and I am going to visit my friends who live in Saudi Arabia. They insist that I do not want to come to Saudi because it is so restrictive...women rather they are Muslim are not, MUST be covered from head to toe. Women cannot sit in the front seat of a car if a man is also traveling and they must walk behind men and no public display of affection.

My biggest problem is having all those clothes on...and my head completely covered in that heat! And I have claustrophobia and motion sickness, I do not sit in the back seat of a vehicle. My friends know this and they know I will straight nut up if I am in the back seat of a car in long sleeves and my head wrapped up! :lol: They have lived there for 12 years, they work for Aramco.

My Muslim friends say Islam gives the highest respect to women and women are extolled for their virtue and they are to be taken care of by men and treated with dignity and respect. Two of them are married, one to a Sunni and one to a NOI, they both dress with everything covered and always their heads covered. The one married to the NOI has never formally converted (she's Catholic) but she is rearing her children in the Islamic faith and sees no problems following the gender and health restrictions.

Of course, my Western ways and medical afflictions won't let me get down with all the restrictions...we are going to go to United Arab Emirates instead.

 

[silentrage]

I didn't say I was non-denominational (you did, Boo).

I don't mind using "sect" with al-Islam if we can use the same term with Christianity.

*I hope your husband does not mind all of this attention you're paying me.

Why do you feel the need to have the term sect used with Christianity before you will use it with al-Islam?

 

[hassan]

However, I know that in the "orthodox" exercise of Islam, like in Saudi Arabia, women are not allowed a lot of freedoms, like owning property, bank accounts, etc. This summer I will travel to Africa and I am going to visit my friends who live in Saudi Arabia. They insist that I do not want to come to Saudi because it is so restrictive...

A few things to remember/understand:

First, there is no word in Arabic for "fundamentalism" so the folks who claim to be "orthodox" are like the dictators of small countries that award themselves military medals every time they roll out of bed.

Second:

"...sadly, some Muslim men do treat their women very poorly [which] is indicative of unIslamic local customs.

My Muslim friends say Islam gives the highest respect to women and women are extolled for their virtue and they are to be taken care of by men and treated with dignity and respect. Two of them are married, one to a Sunni and one to a NOI, they both dress with everything covered and always their heads covered. The one married to the NOI has never formally converted (she's Catholic) but she is rearing her children in the Islamic faith and sees no problems following the gender and health restrictions.

Your friends do not lie in that regard.

Whether folks want to give al-Islam its props or not, the fact is that women were first afforded true human rights thanx to al-Islam.

I am glad that you mentioned your Catholic friend who "never formally converted."

A little known fact about al-Islam is that Muslims can marry other "People of the Book" (Jews and Christians). Not only can a Muslim marry a Jew or a Christian but the Muslim cannot compel, cannot even expect his/her spouse to convert (remember, there is no compulsion in the religion). If anyone "has to" do anything, it is the Muslim husband/wife that is obliged to support his/her "honey-bunny" be the best Jew/Christian she/he can be. A Muslim is expected to respect piety of his/her Jewish/Christian bride/groom. A Muslim may not try to "convert" his/her spouse nor put any pressure on the spouse to do either. If a non-Muslim spouse wished to learn about the religion and eventually take shahada then that, too, should be supported.

 

[hassan]

more on the status and rights of woman in al-Islam

a little bit of background of what life was like for women before al-Islam:

* the ancient Romans and Greeks considered "slaves," commodities that could bought and sold


* Early Christianity looked at women as temptresses (v?s-a-v?s Eve) that were to blame for Adam's fall from Eden

* in the Middle Ages, a conference was held in France to determine the humanity of women

* throughout the Middle Ages, women were - at best - treated as second-class citizens

* Henry VIII (the monarch of significance to truly embrace the Reformation) made it illegal for women to read the Bible (which was ironic since - for the most part - women were not allowed to even know how to read)

* women did not receive citizenship in Britain until 1850 and did not "have" personal rights until thirty-three years after that

* male and female students at Cambridge and Oxford were not "given" equal rights until 1964

* until very recently, Hindu culture regarded women as the personification of hell and a woman's life ended with her husbands (those funeral pyres used to be for two hence the saying 'show me a sick husband and i'll show you a nervous wife')

In al-Islam, a woman has the right to own property, she owns her earnings, she can spend her money as she sees fit, she has the right to her inheritance (including claims on the property of a single,childless brother), she has the right to choose her husband, she has the right to end the relationship, etc.

 

[Bismallah]

hassan = :lecture: :emlaugh:

Muslim women are equal to men, bearing personal and common responsibilities and in receiving rewards for her deeds. She is equal in the pursuit of education and knowledge. Her sound opinions are taken into consideration and cannot be disregarded just because she happen to belong to the female sex. It is reported in the Qur'an and history that woman not only expressed her opinion freely but also argued and participated in serious discussions with the Prophet himself as well as with other Muslim leaders.

One of the most famous battles in Islamic history is that of the Battle of the Camel, in which the Prophet's wife Aishiah fought dozens of fighters from the back of a camel and received but just two scratches. She was also consulted in all political affairs concerning the community up until her death.

 

[hassan]

As we have been exploring in this thread, misconceptions about the faith abound. To whit, some people think that Islam means "submitting to God."

While this definition is a step in the right direction, it still falls short.<O

Islam is Arabic for "submission" or "having submitted" and, for us, submission is to God only.<O

I shall explain the difference because, although it is subtle, it is still significant. <O

Because Jesus used parables to teach important lessons with important details, i shall attempt to the same - sort of.<O

In a classroom a teacher notices a student that is not working on an assignment.<O

The teacher asks, "John, ?is your classwork done?"<O

The student replies, "I'm fixin' to."<O

The teacher then says to the student, "Well, then expect to see 'I was fixin' to pass John but ...' on your report card."<O

That's sort of how i see service to God.<O

On Judgement Day, when God asks me "?did you do what I asked you to?" and i say, "Well, i was fixin' to Lord....," then i shouldn't be surprised if God says in turn to me, "Well, i was fixin' to let you into Glory...."<O

submitting does not equal submission<O</O

submitting does not equal Islam

 

[hassan]

... what Muslims believe about Jesus...

Muslims love Jesus.

The teachings of Jesus are very special to us.

Jesus' place as a special servant and messenger of God's is unquestioned.

We believe in the virgin birth of Jesus because we believe in all miracles of God's.

We believe that Jesus ascended to Heaven.

We do not believe that he was crucified. We believe that God would not, in a more casual way of writing, let Jesus go out like that.

One more thing on Jesus before I head downtown.....

Nowhere in the Bible, either the New or the Old Testament, is the word trinity mentioned; yet it is vital to Christian beliefs today. At no point does Jesus say "I am God" or "I am divine."