Hassan, a discussion about what Muslims believe...


Seeing Spots

Joyful Woman!
Someone mention that they enjoy discourse and debate because it enlightens and educates. I am the same way; if enjoy listening to what other people think and believe, and even if it does persuade me, at least I learn something new with each discussion. Also, I am a natural debater, not arguer, but debater in the real sense of the word/action, because I don't anger quickly, nor do I become frustrated when I cannot convince another to believe what I believe, or think what I think....

Having said that, I see your many threads questioning/challenging Christians (and I am one) about their faith and I want to know about your faith. I have 3 very close friends who are Muslims and we often share information about our beliefs. You haven't really done that here and I think it is time we explore what you believe and why...

So WWMD?
 
Seeing Spots said:
Someone mention that they enjoy discourse and debate because it enlightens and educates. I am the same way; if enjoy listening to what other people think and believe, and even if it does persuade me, at least I learn something new with each discussion. Also, I am a natural debater, not arguer, but debater in the real sense of the word/action, because I don't anger quickly, nor do I become frustrated when I cannot convince another to believe what I believe, or think what I think....

Having said that, I see your many threads questioning/challenging Christians (and I am one) about their faith and I want to know about your faith. I have 3 very close friends who are Muslims and we often share information about our beliefs. You haven't really done that here and I think it is time we explore what you believe and why...

So WWMD?
Seeing Spots,
I do enjoy discussing the different beliefs with others on this page, esp. Hassan. But what you have to discover is Hassan is running from something. I believe he enjoys being a Muslim but miss being a Christian. He knows why. ;) So, Hassan after you answer Seeing Spots question, Come on home.. There is room for you.. I promise there is..
 



S-squared

Great thread - thanx for the inquiry.

I would've gladly posted information about al-Islam here earlier (as I have done on other sites) but i did not think that folks would be receptive (the jury is still out on some folks though [wink wink]).

I don't have much time this evening but i'll post what i can and i am also open to more specific question as well.

In either case, i will do my best to inshal? answer each question.

First of all, the God of Abraham is the God of Jews, Christians, and Muslims.

Abraham begat Ishmael and Isaac.

Jew and Christians typically look to Isaac as their "ancestor" so to speak.

Muslims look to Ishmael in the same manner.

Like many of the "old time prophets," Muhammed was a sheperd in his youth. Like many of you learned in Sunday school, tending sheep is a special job that affords unique opportunities to grow as a spiritual leader: patience, foresight, reflection, discipline, dedication, et cetera.

Like many of the "old time prophets," Muhammed came from humble beginnings: he father died when Muhammed was an infant and his mother died when he was about twelve. This experience strongly influenced his lifelong care for the less fortunate such as orphans, the elderly, the poor, et al.

The first person to convert to al-Islam after the Archangel Gabriel revealed God's choice of Muhammed as a prophet of the Word (*remember Gabriel's other "revelations" in the Bible) was his wife Khadija.

Like all of the other "old time prophets," Muhammed and his family and friends had to endure great hardship because he chose to worship and praise the one true god. Death threats, attacks, beatings, exile, and so forth were but a mere part of what Muhammed and his small group of supporters had to endure.

The five pillars of the faith are:

* profession of faith - a person becomes a Muslim by reciting the simple yet powerful phrase that says "There is no god but God and Muhammed is his last prophet and messenger."

* prayer - a Muslim is expected to pray at least five times a day, prostrating him/herself before God as an act of humility and devotion and love. Muslims "pray in the direction" of Mecca more for unity than for any worship of an earthly destination. In fact, Muslims originally prayed toward the holy city of Jerusalem. *Mecca's status a sacred city dates back to antiquity when Abraham and Ishmael contructed a temple to God. That structure is the Kaa'ba.

* almsgiving - one of the least known attributes of al-Islam is its social progressiveness. Muslims are encouraged to give charity to those in need to the best of each person's ability. Charity can be in the form of cash and/or in-kind donations. For example, if a person is hungry, it is pleasing in God's eye to feed that person. Also, if a person is enslaved, it is pleasing in God's eye to pay the bounty to free that person. Even a friendly smile is acknowledged by Muslims as charity.

* Also, on a related economic note (no pun intended), ursury is prohibited in al-Islam. Interest, like gambling, is considered a sin.

* fast - like in other religions, Muslims see fasting as a means of spiritual growth via physical abstinence. During the month of Ramadan, Muslims that are able to, abstain from eating and drinking during daylight hours as an act of homage to God. Married Muslims are also to refrain from conjugal relations from first light to last light.

Muslims that are too young, too old, infirm, pregnant, or menstrating are exempt from fasting as are individuals on an arduous journey.

* pilgrimage - at least once in his/her lifetime, Muslims that are able to should travel to Mecca during the pilgrimage season. This extraordinary experience is the ultimate fellowship experience as Muslims of all colors, sizes, shapes, languages, financial backgrounds come together from all over the world to celebrate God.

I'm going to close this first reply but, again, i'm glad that Seeing Spots asked the question.

I'll wrap this post up with a beautiful letter that some of you may have read before:



"Never have I witnessed such sincere hospitality and overwhelming spirit of true brotherhood as is practiced by people of all colors and races here in this ancient Holy Land, the home of Abraham, Muhammad and all the other Prophets of the Holy Scriptures. For the past week, I have been utterly speechless and spellbound by the graciousness I see displayed all around me by people of all colors.





"I have been blessed to visit the Holy City of Mecca, I have made my seven circuits around the Ka'ba, led by a young Mutawaf named Muhammad, I drank water from the well of the Zam Zam. I ran seven times back and forth between the hills of Mt. Al-Safa and Al Marwah. I have prayed in the ancient city of Mina, and I have prayed on Mt. Arafat.





"There were tens of thousands of pilgrims, from all over the world. They were of all colors, from blue-eyed blondes to black-skinned Africans. But we were all participating in the same ritual, displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in America had led me to believe never could exist between the white and non-white.





"America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have been considered white - but the white attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all colors together, irrespective of their color.





"You may be shocked by these words coming from me. But on this pilgrimage, what I have seen, and experienced, has forced me to rearrange much of my thought-patterns previously held, and to toss aside some of my previous conclusions. This was not too difficult for me. Despite my firm convictions, I have always been a man who tries to face facts, and to accept the reality of life as new experience and new knowledge unfolds it. I have always kept an open mind, which is necessary to the flexibility that must go hand in hand with every form of intelligent search for truth.





"During the past eleven days here in the Muslim world, I have eaten from the same plate, drunk from the same glass, and slept on the same rug - while praying to the same God - with fellow Muslims, whose eyes were the bluest of blue, whose hair was the blondest of blond, and whose skin was the whitest of white. And in the words and in the deeds of the white Muslims, I felt the same sincerity that I felt among the black African Muslims of Nigeria, Sudan and Ghana.





"We were truly all the same (brothers) - because their belief in one God had removed the white from their minds, the white from their behavior, and the white from their attitude.





"I could see from this, that perhaps if white Americans could accept the Oneness of God, then perhaps, too, they could accept in reality the Oneness of Man - and cease to measure, and hinder, and harm others in terms of their 'differences' in color.





"With racism plaguing America like an incurable cancer, the so-called 'Christian' white American heart should be more receptive to a proven solution to such a destructive problem. Perhaps it could be in time to save America from imminent disaster - the same destruction brought upon Germany by racism that eventually destroyed the Germans themselves.





"Each hour here in the Holy Land enables me to have greater spiritual insights into what is happening in America between black and white. The American Negro never can be blamed for his racial animosities - he is only reacting to four hundred years of the conscious racism of the American whites. But as racism leads America up the suicide path, I do believe, from the experiences that I have had with them, that the whites of the younger generation, in the colleges and universities, will see the handwriting on the walls and many of them will turn to the spiritual path of truth - the only way left to America to ward off the disaster that racism inevitably must lead to.





"Never have I been so highly honored. Never have I been made to feel more humble and unworthy. Who would believe the blessings that have been heaped upon an American Negro? A few nights ago, a man who would be called in America a white man, a United Nations diplomat, an ambassador, a companion of kings, gave me his hotel suite, his bed. Never would I have even thought of dreaming that I would ever be a recipient of such honors - honors that in America would be bestowed upon a King - not a Negro.



"All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of all the Worlds.





Sincerely,





Al-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz (Malcolm X)





(From the AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF MALCOLM X)
Malcolm X saw and experienced many positive things. Generosity and openheartedness were qualities which were impressed on him by the welcome which he received in many places. He saw brotherhood and the brotherhood of different races and this led him to disclaim racism and to say: "I am not a racist... In the past I permitted myself to be used... to make sweeping indictments of all white people, the entire white race, and these generalizations have caused injuries to some whites who perhaps did not deserve to be hurt. Because of the spiritual enlightenment which I was blessed to receive as the result of my recent pilgrimage to the Holy City of Mecca, I no longer subscribe to sweeping indictments of any one race. I am now striving to live the life of a true Sunni Muslim. I must repeat that I am not a racist nor do I subscribe to the tenets of racism. I can state in all sincerity that I wish nothing but freedom, justice and equality, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all people."
 
hassan said:
The five pillars of the faith are:

***

* Also, on a related economic note (no pun intended), ursury is prohibited in al-Islam. Interest, like gambling, is considered a sin.

***
As Jafus says on the Sports Board...Interesting...

so if interest is considered a sin, then do all Muslims purchase homes and cars and other big tickets items in cash? And if they get loans are they sinning and thereby condemned to eternal hell? Do Muslims have a hell? Are there consequences for committing sin? Do you own your a home? Do you own a car? Did you pay cash for it to be free of sin?
 
Seeing Spots said:
As Jafus says on the Sports Board...Interesting...

so if interest is considered a sin, then do all Muslims purchase homes and cars and other big tickets items in cash? And if they get loans are they sinning and thereby condemned to eternal hell? Do Muslims have a hell? Are there consequences for committing sin? Do you own your a home? Do you own a car? Did you pay cash for it to be free of sin?
?Good question!

This is a big issue for many Muslims - especially American Muslims. It is almost impossible for us to avoid having to deal with ursury as it is such a big part of the American model of free enterprise.

While there are Islamic financial institutions that do very good business in other parts of the world, their impact is very limited here at home.

We do not believe that God is an arbitarily fire-and-brimstone god. While we acknowledge that God is omnipotent and that God's wrath is unspeakable, we always refer to God as "The Most Beneficient, The Most Merciful." Thus, we know that God the omniscient is aware of our circumstances and sometimes you have to, so to speak, do what you have to do (eg "render unto C?sar what is..."). God is just and takes everything into consideration.

That brings me to your other question: yes, we do believe in hell. The hell that I believe in is not necessarily the perpetual inferno that many people picture when the place is thought of. Rather, I believe that hell is what we make it through our transgressions and unrepentance.

Oh, and there are certainly consequences for sins. All that we do and don't do will be taken into account by God on the Day of Judgement.

Another important note, the Qu'ran teaches (in its second chapter) that pious Jews and pious Christians are as assured of eternal salvation as pious Muslims. We believe that a Christian or a Jew that is doing his/her best to serve God according to his/her beliefs will be blessed with eternal peace in Heaven. There is no "one way" to God because that will exclude many good souls that have committed no sin other than being born in a context that was beyond their control. After all, it is God that determines when and where a soul comes into being as it relates to this temporal existence and I have already stated how God takes everything into evidence when rendering judgement.
 
Wow, doesn't sound like good Muslims are so very different from good Christians...we strive every day to do our best to follow the tenets of our faith, just like Muslims, as per your example on the issue of interest.

Christians are very much like Muslims, we serve God with all our hearts and human failings, Christmas trees and all. :D:D:D

Further discussion:

What evidence do you have, other than your written holy word, the Qu'ran, that Mohammad was the last prophet and his wife Khadijah was the first convert? How did you come to learn this "fact" from your faith? Did you hear it espoused by your Imam (pastor)? How did you manifest this as the truth? Is God's declaration that Mohammad was the last prophet divine?
 
Seeing Spots said:
Is God's declaration that Mohammad was the last prophet divine?
Babygurl, if God declares anything i thought it was understood that it is therefore automatically divine.

Duh! :D ;)

There are many things that I appreciate about al-Islam. First and foremost, i don't see it as a change in religion; rather, i see it as a natural continuation, a logical progression of my personal relationship with God.

Growing up, i was raised in a very devout Christian environment. Absolute devotion to God was the rule upon which all other rules were based. That environment was loving and patient and disciplined - like my faith tells me God is.

I always prayed to God and I was taught to believe - and did, in fact, believe for many years - that Jesus was the son of God. But I never prayed to Jesus. I always prayed to God because I saw them as being different.

*It is interesting how, when i talk to them now, many "Christians" will say the same thing. I say it is "interesting" because i realize that the fundamental belief that makes a Christian a Christian as we know it to be today is the belief that God = Jesus and, by the laws of mathematics that God invented, Jesus = God.

I won't go into great detail (right now) as to how my spirituality evolved from where it was to where it is now but I will say this: I dont see myself nor my relationship with God as any different now than what it was some years ago other than i see myself as slowly but surely mashallah moving closer (thanks to God and the Grace God has given each of us so generously) to God.

I hope that i dont sound self-righteous (Lord forgive me if i do). I am just trying to do all that i can to diminish the physical part of me while increasing the spiritual essence so i can God willing be judged worthy of a place in Heaven.

As usual, i have to run but i will say that i also appreciate that, in al-Islam, there is no compulsion. Additionally, i am grateful that i don't hear Muslims finding things that will condemn someone to eternal damnation (or even temporary damnation) like, unfortunately, i've heard so many other folks do over my lifetime.

I cannot speak for other folks but hearing...

You're going to hell for this....!

and

You're going to hell for that....!

et cetera

... gets tired and I don't ever want to become tired of anything associated with God.

I'll try to log back on soon.

Adieu.
 
PRINCE HALL said:
He is a product of BCC.
Yup and I thank God for that all of the time.

*After all, Bethune-Cookman College is proof of what can be wrought through faith in God.

:tup:
 
Wow, with each explanation you give about your faith it becomes apparent that you feel exactly like I feel...I live everyday increasing my understanding of God and living my life so that it is an example.

All faiths provide that solace, divinely delivered, and for me it's PRAISE JESUS!

And yes, Christians do believe that Jesus is God. He is the Messiah!
 
Seeing Spots said:
Wow, with each explanation you give about your faith it becomes apparent that you feel exactly like I feel...I live everyday increasing my understanding of God and living my life so that it is an example.

All faiths provide that solace, divinely delivered, and for me it's PRAISE JESUS!

And yes, Christians do believe that Jesus is God. He is the Messiah!
I feel ya S-squared. :tup:

Remember, i'm the only Muslim in a very devout family. I love my family and I respect their beliefs.


me said:
... the Qu'ran teaches (in its second chapter) that pious Jews and pious Christians are as assured of eternal salvation as pious Muslims. We believe that a Christian or a Jew that is doing his/her best to serve God according to his/her beliefs will be blessed with eternal peace in Heaven. There is no "one way" to God because that will exclude many good souls that have committed no sin other than being born in a context that was beyond their control. After all, it is God that determines when and where a soul comes into being as it relates to this temporal existence and I have already stated how God takes everything into evidence when rendering judgement.
I believe that it is hard to do one's "best to serve God" if one is not independently able to comprehend and share what his/her religion is all about?

I love and respect my Christian and Jewish brothers and sisters that rely on themselves to do what they have to make sure that they get to Heaven. Pastors and priests and parents et al play important roles in this process but, in the end, it is YOU that has to get into Heaven.

If you're going to be a Christian, be a Christian - not a parrot.
 
hassan said:
I feel ya S-squared. :tup:

I love and respect my Christian and Jewish brothers and sisters that rely on themselves to do what they have to make sure that they get to Heaven. Pastors and priests and parents et al play important roles in this process but, in the end, it is YOU that has to get into Heaven.

If you're going to be a Christian, be a Christian - not a parrot.
Your statement implies that the Christians you know are parrots and rely only upon what their pastors or priests say. They must do no independent study of the Word and "parrot" whatever they are told by their religious leaders and parents. Is that what you mean by don't be a parrot? Also, do you mean that they just SAY what they hear and never actually study the WORD and, further, never live the doctrine to which they ascribe? I think that is what you mean about being a parrot.

Let me say that I am a Christian who studies the Word from a spiritual and historical posture. I thirst to KNOW what happened, why it happened and I absorb and accept the divine implications of those actions...we call it faith.
But I also listen, hear, what my parents and pastor say about the Word. About the Lord Jesus, about the Holy Trinity. I do not, and most Christians, do not shun assembling together and hearing the Word of the Lord from our Pastor.

So I can only glean from your statement that your family are devout Christians and you are the only Muslim that they have a problem with your conversion. This would explain why you challenge all of us about our beliefs and our faith.

Let me release you, as far as I am concerned, your conversion to the Islamic faith was and is a very personal choice and any REAL believer would never condemn you for what you believe. The Christians in your family and the others that you know are very narrow minded and unversed, unrooted in our faith and that is why they attack you. Then that is why you come on TSPN and seemingly attack us as being parrots and unlearned about our faith. Several of us know of what we speak, believe, feel about Christianity and the Risen Savior.

I want to know what YOU believe, not hear the words Malcolm X espoused nearly 40 years ago. Tell me about the Islamic faith from your prospective and knowledge and practices. I'm only asking because after reading the numerous threads where you questioned us Christians, it made me think deeper about what I believed and why and that made me even closer to Jesus. I am grateful to you for that stimulus, and now I am returning the favor....

So what about Jihad?
 
Seeing Spots said:
Your statement implies that the Christians you know are parrots and rely only upon what their pastors or priests say.
No it doesn't.

I know Christians that use the brains that God gave them and I also know Christians that are parrots.

I know Muslims that use the brains that God gave them and I also know Muslims that are parrots.


Seeing Spots said:
Let me say that I am a Christian who studies the Word from a spiritual and historical posture. I thirst to KNOW what happened, why it happened and I absorb and accept the divine implications of those actions...we call it faith.
I don't remember questioning you S-squared.

Seeing Spots said:
But I also listen, hear, what my parents and pastor say about the Word. About the Lord Jesus, about the Holy Trinity.
That's nice - so do I. I thought I addressed that already.

me said:
Pastors and priests and parents et al play important roles ...
?What is your point?


Seeing Spots said:
So I can only glean from your statement that your family are devout Christians and you are the only Muslim that they have a problem with your conversion. This would explain why you challenge all of us about our beliefs and our faith.
How you managed to "glean" that from what I posted is beyond me. That is a very egotistical assumption.

In fact, my family has been very supportive of me and my relationship with God.

So much for your explanation....

Seeing Spots said:
Let me release you, as far as I am concerned, ....
Don't bother - you can't "release" me because you never "had" me.

So much for something that is really not your "concern."

Seeing Spots said:
The Christians in your family and the others that you know are very narrow minded and unversed, unrooted in our faith and that is why they attack you.
Again, that is quite arrogant.

I would suspect that your "assumptions" are rooted in the collective viral bigotry towards Catholicism that continually rears itself in this forum but then i would be guilty of the same "egoism" that you brought to this dialogue.

Remember, ego means easing God out. :D


Seeing Spots said:
Then that is why you come on TSPN and seemingly attack us as being parrots and unlearned about our faith. Several of us know of what we speak, believe, feel about Christianity and the Risen Savior.
I've never attacked anyone in this forum (the smack board is another matter) ... ;)

What I do do is question which is not a crime because i was taught that the only folks who don't like questions are the folks who don't have the answers.

It is evident that not everyone that posts in this forum is a parrot but it is also evident that there are ...

parrots.jpg


Here's what i mean
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Sunday
tdjakes.jpeg

"Columbus had a fourth ship ... it sailed over the edge."
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Monday
parrots.jpg


Seeing Spots said:
I want to know what YOU believe, not hear the words Malcolm X espoused nearly 40 years ago.
If I didn't believe it, i would not have posted it.

Seeing Spots said:
.... after reading the numerous threads where you questioned us Christians, it made me think deeper about what I believed and why and that made me even closer to Jesus.
Good. I learned some years ago that, as i said already, questioning makes a good student better.

Seeing Spots said:
So what about Jihad?
One step ahead of you - check the other thread.

:)
 



hassan said:
parrots.jpg


Here's what i mean
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Sunday
tdjakes.jpeg

"Columbus had a fourth ship ... it sailed over the edge."
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Monday
parrots.jpg



If I didn't believe it, i would not have posted it.

I almost spit out my drink :lol:

While this is funny it is a sad but true description of people period....no matter what faith. These are fanatics.
 
BLAQUE PRINCE said:
While this is funny it is a sad but true description of people period....no matter what faith.


A picture of Farrakhan can just as easily go up, too!
 
BLAQUE PRINCE said:
... it is a sad but true description of people period....no matter what faith.
CriTAUcal said:
A picture of Farrakhan can just as easily go up, too!
BP, ?excellent point!

There are parrots everywhere.

Christians parrots....

Muslim parrots....

Jewish parrots....

Hindu parrots....

NOI parrots....

Republican parrots....

Democrat parrots....


If God didn't want us to question and wonder, God would have equipped us with tape recorders instead of brains.
 
hassan said:
BP, ?excellent point!

There are parrots everywhere.

Christians parrots....

Muslim parrots....

Jewish parrots....

Hindu parrots....

NOI parrots....

Republican parrots....

Democrat parrots....


If God didn't want us to question and wonder, God would have equipped us with tape recorders instead of brains.


Nothin but the truth here.....and its really sad and troubling when you look at it on a grand scale. :shame: Thats one reason I argue/debate with people so much. I will respect your opinion if you have thought it out and really know why you believe what you do. But if I see you don't I will try to drill you until you realize for yourself that you are a fanatic.
 
BLAQUE PRINCE said:
Thats one reason I argue/debate with people so much. I will respect your opinion if you have thought it out and really know why you believe what you do. But if I see you don't I will try to drill you until you realize for yourself that you are a fanatic.
:lol:

Shhhhh..... you're going to pop the reactionary balloon of some folks around as it relates to what they "know" about me.
 
BLAQUE PRINCE said:
Nothin but the truth here.....and its really sad and troubling when you look at it on a grand scale. :shame: Thats one reason I argue/debate with people so much. I will respect your opinion if you have thought it out and really know why you believe what you do. But if I see you don't I will try to drill you until you realize for yourself that you are a fanatic.
On fanatic: Would you believe I got in trouble with my peers in Poli Sci class last semester for saying that Islam isn't at odds with democracy any more than Evangelical fanatics are at odds with what's really "Christian"? You would've thought NO ONE knows anything about the word "fanatic" other than "Fundamentalism" must be a part of it. :shame:
 
lilC said:
On fanatic: Would you believe I got in trouble with my peers in Poli Sci class last semester for saying that Islam isn't at odds with democracy any more than Evangelical fanatics are at odds with what's really "Christian"? You would've thought NO ONE knows anything about the word "fanatic" other than "Fundamentalism" must be a part of it. :shame:
I'm surprised - especially looking at where you are "posting from."

check this out:
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The Political Jesus
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By Jim Hightower, AlterNet. Posted December 25, 2004.
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In the cacophony of Christmas commercialism, it can be difficult even to recall that it's about Jesus. But this hardly is the only time that Jesus gets lost in our modern swirl.
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Take politics. In the recent presidential run, much was made by George W and his handlers of his supposedly superior moral values based on his commitment to Jesus. But before we let Bush steal away with the robe of Jesus and don it as a Republican garment, let's reflect a moment on the moral teaching of this man from Nazareth.
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Like George, I grew up in a Methodist church in Texas. Unlike George, I didn't find any burning anti-liberal theology there. My little church might have considered itself "conservative," but only in terms of its commitment to the deeply egalitarian, truly progressive values we found in the Biblical teachings of Jesus.
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I recall many a sermon that began with Jesus's words in Matthew 19:24: "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God." I recall that the greatest sin of all, "the root of all evil," Jesus said, is "the love of money." I recall the passionate retelling of how Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple ? threw them out for charging interest rates for less than usurious bankers now charge us on our Visas and Mastercards, by the way.
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I recall also that Jesus fed all of the masses that day on the hillside at the Sea of Galilee, not turning away anyone who lacked a platinum card to buy fishes and loaves. And I recall that Jesus flatly said: "You cannot serve with both God and Mammon."
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In the good book, Jesus talks more about economic justice than nearly any other subject, and the apostles make clear that the most important ethical/religious test of Judeo-Christian faith is in how we treat the least wealthy, least imporant among us.
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Let's call on Bush ? and the Democrats, too?to live up to these moral values before they claim that Jesus is on their side.
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http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/20848/
 
lilC said:
On fanatic: Would you believe I got in trouble with my peers in Poli Sci class last semester for saying that Islam isn't at odds with democracy any more than Evangelical fanatics are at odds with what's really "Christian"? You would've thought NO ONE knows anything about the word "fanatic" other than "Fundamentalism" must be a part of it. :shame:
I believe it lilC...same thing happened to me when I said what you said. :smh:

:wavey: Hassan, it's all good, let me apologize if I offended you and your family by my assumptions. I don't know them, I just made assumptions by what you say in here.

The more you know, the more you GROW! Is this a great discussion or what!? GOD BLESS AMERICA! :flippy:

Now did you ever answer me about if you purchased your home and car and other high ticket items in cash? My Muslim friends have a great difficulty with this because it is one of the basic tenets of the Islamic faith. They all have mortgages and pay cars "on time", but most of them have short term mortgages. :lol: They want to live RIGHT!
 
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