thegooddoctor
Active Member
Has the MEAC surpassed the SWAC in the quality of it's athletic teams and academic programs?
Is it time to face reality? :sleeping:
Is it time to face reality? :sleeping:
Has the MEAC surpassed the SWAC in quality.....
- Thread starter thegooddoctor
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MightyDog
Well-Known Member
No, we at AAMU will continue to build a solid basketball program. I can recall our first year in the SWAC we were physcially beaten down. Is the SEC as good as the ACC? Comparisons will always be made, but as many teams finding out in the Big Dance, they must play the game instead of relying on there big names. Once our fans realize the SWAC is a great conference, and we support our teams by attending game, our players will be motivated.
Jafus (Thinker)
Well-Known Member
TheGoodDoctor,
From following all sports, the various polls, and various match-ups between the two HBCU Division I conferences, it is an ebb and flow relationship with one conference coming out on top of those match-ups from year to year from an athletic competition stand point. Honestly, I think both conferences are even and in the same position with regards to academics and athletics.
From following all sports, the various polls, and various match-ups between the two HBCU Division I conferences, it is an ebb and flow relationship with one conference coming out on top of those match-ups from year to year from an athletic competition stand point. Honestly, I think both conferences are even and in the same position with regards to academics and athletics.
Jafus (Thinker)
Well-Known Member
Bartram,
At one time I supported this initiative. But after further study, our presidents and administrators are just not serious enough about athletics for this work or even come to manageable fruition.
At one time I supported this initiative. But after further study, our presidents and administrators are just not serious enough about athletics for this work or even come to manageable fruition.
Killer Bees
Well-Known Member
Bartram said:
Do you realize how much of land that would cover?????? Most of our budgets couldn't handle the travel cost. The MEAC is already hurting by themselves because how far schools have to travel.
Bartram said:
This idea has been thrown around for some time. My question is "Where are the big spenders that are going to deliver to make this a success?" There was a day when our players could compete with Div I teams but that day is gone. Both the SWAC and the MEAC needs to concentrate on getting back the kind of athletes that were prevalent in years past.
If our energies are spent on competing for the Div IAA championship, everything else will take care of itself. I am proud to see some of our track and field stars returning to the SWAC. I can remember when we dominated track and field. Let's not get caught up with trying to compete against the MEAC or likewise. We need to compete for NCAA championships (The rest will take care of itself).
Paul Dolemite Taylor
Well-Known Member
Ralph said:
GET THE MONEY RIGHT FIRST!!!! I KNEW Y'ALL WOULD TERY TO SNEAK THAT 1AA PIMP PLAYOFFS IN THERE SOMEWHERE !!!!!!!!111 I GOT MY EYE ON Y'ALL !!!!!! FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS FOR 1AA ARE NOT THE SAME AS NCAA TOURNAMENT. PWC'S DON'T LIKE THE 1AA PLAYOFFS EITHER!!!!!!!!!
Jafus (Thinker)
Well-Known Member
The financials and the current parameters surrounding the playoffs dictate that participating the NCAA Division I AA playoffs in a serious manner to play for championships is not a reality, either. This particular issue is not only the fault of our presidents and administrators, but also the fault of the administrators of the NCAA Division I AA playoffs.
Paul Dolemite Taylor
Well-Known Member
Ralph said:
That's a load of crap in ALL CAPS!
I KNOW ITS CRAP TO YOU CAUSE ITS THE TRUTH !! Y'ALL ALWAYS CONSIDER THE TRUTH THAT DOES NOT COME FROM Y'ALL CRAP!!!!!!
AGAIN I SAY GET THE MONEY RIGHT DAMMIT !! QUIT TRYING TO FAMU US INTO THAT PLAY FO PAY CRAP YOU CALL A PLAYOFF SYSTEM !!!!!! PWC'S DON'T EVEN LIKE IT. Pull up that article about mcneese gate woes and how the last champion jsut got a ring and that's it.
I AM SORRY I HAD TO CATCH YOU BEFORE YOU TOLD SOMEMORE UNTRUTHS ON HERE !!!!!
CARRY ON FOLKS!!!!!!
Bartram
Brand HBCUbian
Jafus (Thinker) said:
Yeah, i would not argue with you there if it really came down to it. Just trying to be optimistic. If you took a stab at the suspects that could possibly merge to form a 6 or 8 team Div I-A conference, it'd probably be something like:
WEST DIVISION:
Southern LA
TNState TN
Jackson State MS
Grambling LA
(Future expansion, AAMU)
EAST DIVISION:
FAMU FL
NCA&T NC
Howard DC
Bethune FL
(Future expansion, SC State)
The rest of the SWAC/MEAC could be EAST and WEST divisions of a Div I-AA Super SWAC/MEAC or remain vestages of the SWAC and MEAC with the additions of SIAC and CIAA up-movers like Tuskegee, WS State, Savannah State, Albany State, NC Central, etc.
yes, the Div I-A HBCU conference proposed would range wide geographically, but you could have an "East" and "West" division. with a division format you could lessen the travel impact and mix in "classics" to help defray the long distance travel perhaps?
bamaSNAKE
New Member
thegooddoctor said:
Believe me or not, I'm speaking truly on the subject of the thread.
The MEAC is better then the SWAC in athletics over all at this point in time. Doing a sport by sport comparison on the two conferences would yield how I got to my answer. The MEAC's team seem to, now days, be getting further in NCAA play &/OR better seeds in NCAA post season play. I also based my answer on the increasing successes MEAC teams are having against teams from the traditional powerhouse conferences. This academic year for example in the MEAC:
Softball - BCC has beaten # 16 Florida and FAMU has beaten # 10 Florida State.
Baseball - BCC has beaten Tennessee this season.
Volleyball - FAMU hasn't lost to another HBCU is at least three years. This past season they beat #2 Nebraska at Nebraska in front of 5,000 big red fans. They've beaten a number of other ranked teams over the past four years as well as teams who aren't ranks but who are in major conference (i.e., Maryland, UNC, Auburn, S. Miss, S. Fla), and ended this season ranked in the final NCAA D-1 poll, a first for a HBCU. They've been ranked in the poll prior to this past season and are the only HBCU to ever be ranked. This past season their regular season record got them the honor of being one of the hosting sites of the NCAA tourney of 64, also a first for an HBCU.
Men's Track - FAMU's Kevin Hicks is the USTA NATIONAL CHAMPION in the indoor 800m. He's also the NCAA NATIONAL CHAMPION in the indoor 800m. At the NCAA's he blew away athletes from powerhouse SEC and Big 12 schools. The sophomore is also among the favorites to win the outdoor 800m this summer both at the USTA and NCAA.
Bowling - To attest the strength of bowling in the conference, Maryland Estern shore finished 3rd in the MEAC tourney last season but still got an at large bid to the NCAA's thanks to it's 30-4 record. At that NCAA tournament UMES has the only perfect 300 game in history. Not that the history of the NCAA bowling tournament is that long, LOL, but it's an accomplishment nonetheless.
Women's Basketball - I don't know much about MEAC women's basketball that would set it apart from SWAC women's basketball except that when looking at conference RPI rankings for the sport the MEAC does rank better then the SWAC, even though it's only one spot up and both are at the bottom. The best RPI for a MEAC school is Coppin St. (115). The best SWAC team RPI is Alcorn at (130). The MEAC also had two other teams rank higher then the second highest ranked SWAC team - DSU (188), Hampton (204), ranked higher then second beast SWAC team Southren (211). This is out of 328 teams.
Men's Basketball - This year, for the second straight year, the MEAC's representative gave its #1 seed opponent a competitive game. DSU hung strong with powerhouse Duke and ended up losing by 11. Also this year S.C. State beat Penn State of the Big 10 and Miami of the ACC, both on the road. Miami nearly made the NCAA as an at large, and did go to the NIT. Miami's lost to S.C. State was sited as a reason they didn't get an at large to the NCAA. Another note on the MEAC moving in the right direction in men's basketball is that this year the conference RPI has moved up to 28 out of 32. This is an improvement of at least two spots over last season. Below the MEAC is the North East (29), Big Sky (30), SWAC (31), and Independents (32). Departing form this year's gains The MEAC has had two teams (Hampton and Coppin State) win NCAA tourney games and have had teams play respectable games in tournaments past (i.e. DSU this year vs Duke, last year FAMU vs. Kentucky). Back to this year, the best team RPI for the MEAC is DSU at 103, the best team RPI for the SWAC is AAMU at 220. There are three more MEAC schools who have better RPI's the AAMU, Hampton (156), S.C. State (182), and FAMU (190). This is all out of 330 D-1 teams.
Football - I guess it's harder to say which conference is better in football since one plays in the NCAA 1-AA play offs for the national championship and one plays for its conference championship. I guess one would have to take a look at head to head match ups between the two conferences but those match ups aren't very plentiful. Of the 16 1-AA conferences, this past year the MEAC was ratted the 10th best. This ranking should rebound a bit this season with FAMU coming back into conference play. The SWAC this past season finished ranked 13. Here's how the MEAC teams finished the year in the rankings.
27. Hampton (24.56)
43. S Carolina St (38.11)
58. Bethune-Cookman (48.44)
80. Howard (61.00)
86. Florida A&M (65.44)
90. Delaware St (68.44)
91. Morgan St (68.56)
98. NC A&T (74.22)
109. Norfolk St (81.11)
Here's how the SWAC came out in the final rankings...
44. Alabama St (38.22)
68. Southern Univ (54.44)
77. Ark Pine Bluff (60.33)84. Alcorn St (63.22)
85. Alabama A&M (63.56)93. Jackson St (70.33)
94. Grambling (70.56)
105. MS Valley St (79.00)
112. Prairie View (82.67)
117. TX Southern (86.56)
This is out of 120 teams
Two MEAC teams finished ranked better then the best ranked SWAC team. Also, two SWAC teams finished worst then the worst MEAC team. Also, Savannah St. (independent) finished the year ranked higher then the bottom two SWAC schools.
In the final USA Today top 25 poll the MEAC had two teams ranked, Hampton (12), and S.C. State (22). The SWAC had one team finish in the top 25, ASU (20).
The MEAC was also ranked higher then the SWAC in the 2003, and 2002.
OK...I'm done. I know I haven't touch each sport. And I am absolutely sure I didn't hit on all the MEAC milestones of late, only the ones I could remember or quickly find on the net. But I think I've compiled a good enough resume to show that the MEAC is better then the SWAC as a conference when it comes to results on the field of play. That's not to say very much because both conferences still have far to go. Neither has reach anywhere near its potential. But I do believe that the MEAC is further alone in trying to reach her's.
The MEAC has several issues which it needs to do something about in the next few years for continued growth. I'll just touch on the two money sports though.
Football
*The conferences needs to add at least one football program. NCCU, WSSU, and SSU are three who want in. By adding at least one football program the conference can split into divisions (for all spots) for the purpose or saving travel cost. The conference's programs could each improve themselves without adding one cent to its budgets just by using the travel savings from the division split.
* The conference needs to completely outlaw schools playing more then one D-2 school a year, and highly discourage playing even one. This will help to continue the conference's improving football rankings which help when trying to get more then one team into the play offs.
* All of the teams need to improve their home attendance but especially everyone except FAMU, A&T, and S.C. State.
Basketball
* The conference is on its way in basketball behind much improved coaching and improving over all investment (facilities, recruiting, competitiveness). Where the conference needs to improve most is in the selection of non-conference games. Although the conference has improved in non conference play it could come up a lot better if it finds a way to balance the need of revenue games with getting more winnable games.
* Improve home attendance. Marketing is the key.
* Improve tournament attendance. Don't allow the bottom three teams to go. Have the women's tournament sperate, and on one of the member campuses.
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Academically the answer is even easier then athletically. The answer is clearly yes. Without going into detail I'll just state a few tid bits...
* The MEAC offers more BS/BAs, more Graduate, more Professional, and more Doctoral programs then the SWAC.
* The MEAC schools bring in more research money then the SWAC.
* The MEAC has more national achievement scholars (best African American students based on the PSAT) then the SWAC.
* The combined endowment of the MEAC schools are higher then that of the SWAC.
* The MEAC has fewer open admission schools then does the SWAC.
* In the most recent BE rankings of the best colleges for African Americans three MEAC schools made the top ten (Hampton, Howard, and FAMU) while no SWAC schools did.
Remember, I didn't mention any particular school's accomplishments (except the BE rankings). I just took each conference as a whole. Each conference has its stand out schools academically, but from top to bottom the MEAC is better.
bluedog
"Leader of Kings"
thegooddoctor you really need to get back in here and distinguish whether you're talking about the Meac being better then the SWAC this year or if you're referring to the Meac having surpass the SWAC in accomplishment overall.
My personal opinion, if you?re meaning surpass as you stated the answer is clearly??.NO!
My personal opinion, if you?re meaning surpass as you stated the answer is clearly??.NO!
thegooddoctor
Active Member
Bamasnake has provided an objective as compared to a subjective response to the question.
My questions was not based on this year alone but over the years.
The question althought inclusive of athletics was really focusing on academics. And, it was based on the large number of black students who finish in the top ten of their high school classes in my area who are opting to attend MEAC schools. These students are being vigorously recruited by the Hampton's, FAMU's, and Howard's and other east coast HBCU's.
On the other hand they are being ignored by the SWAC schools.
Just an observation. :bowdown:
My questions was not based on this year alone but over the years.
The question althought inclusive of athletics was really focusing on academics. And, it was based on the large number of black students who finish in the top ten of their high school classes in my area who are opting to attend MEAC schools. These students are being vigorously recruited by the Hampton's, FAMU's, and Howard's and other east coast HBCU's.
On the other hand they are being ignored by the SWAC schools.
Just an observation. :bowdown:
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