Haitian Situation


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Who helped prop up Saddam and keep him in power in Iraq?

France, Germany, and Briton.
None of these countries, ALONG with the U.S. wanted IRAN to be the dominant force in the Middle East during this time period. The '80's. That's why Saddam was backed by ALL $ of these countries. I love to hear people say it was JUST THE U.S.

As far as Haiti before Aristide ........................ Haiti was under the rule of the MILITARY until the first election. :cool:
 



Originally posted by dacontinent
How did Aristide get elected in the first place? US gov't money backed him.

Man don't come on here miseducating folks.

The U.S. did not back Aristide when he first ran for office in 1990. The U.S. backed a dude named Marc Bazin, who summarily got his azz whipped in that election, 67% to 14%. There's no way in hell Haiti would be the poorest nation in the western hemisphere if the U.S. gave it any support over the past 14 years.


But you don't have to take my word for it:

http://www.ndu.edu/inss/books/Books - 1997/Imposing International Sanctions - March 97/chapter2.html
 
Re: this is just unbelievable.

Originally posted by Bartram
I thought Bush was too gun-ho,, too much of a "gun slinging cowboy". If Bush had sent troops in to quell the uprising, these same idiots and baphoons would have been lining up to file law suites against the U.S. government for brutality against "innocent civilians".

Personally I'd prefer the U.S. to stay out of other folks affairs period, especially when it affects Black folks...... I'm sure I don't have to remind you how we tend to get the short end of the stick when that happens.

But that's not the issue here. The jist of this argument is that America shouldn't go out of it's way to undermine the rule of a democratically-elected leader in the first damn place, then hide it's hands and shake it's head when isht really hits the fan. These events are occurring after years of crippling U.S.-led sanctions and pressured world ostracism, mind you. There's a reason why Haiti is the poorest nation in the western hemisphere..... just ask World Bank. The biggest problem I have with U.S. foreign policy is its schizophenic nature. Don't engage in shady isht aaaaall around the world and at the same time talk this noise about "morality" and "virtue" and "democratic values" when it's convenient. If you're going to be a bully who only really gives a damn about it's own plan of world domination, at least have the balls to be honest about it. Don't hide behind bullisht principles that you know you don't practice.


AND THEN,,,, WHEN THE U.S. FINALLY DOES DO SOMETHING,,,,,, IT'S A COUP AND THE U.S. "HELPED OVERTHROW A DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED LEADER"??!!! :rolleyes:

LOL. So I take it you find such a thing impossible. Totally absurd and implausible, huh? I guess you didn't notice the last 2 centuries of U.S. history???
 
Anyone who wonders why we should give a damn about Haiti would be wise to take a look at Hassan's thread about the nation's bicentennial and understand why it's received the treatment it has received from the the Western world.
 
Originally posted by HBCUs
Anyone who wonders why we should give a damn about Haiti would be wise to take a look at Hassan's thread about the nation's bicentennial and understand why it's received the treatment it has received from the the Western world.


:flamethro :uzi: ouch
 
Originally posted by dacontinent
Well...lessee...

Who put Saddam Hussein in power back in Iraq? US gov't.

Who insisted that Iraq have elections after Saddam was put into place, which Saddam later manipulated like a dictator anyway? US gov't.

How did Aristide get elected in the first place? US gov't money backed him.

When the coup came in and ran him out back in the 90's, who put him back in the presidency? US gov't

Who put Manuel Noriega in power in Panama and later saw to his removal? US gov't.


Get the picture?

No, I do not get your picture especially after the U.S. along with most of the rest of the world, help to arm Saddam to the teeth. The U.S. with the help of the conservatives in Congress got out of Haiti during the '90s. But I get THE picture.
 
Re: Re: this is just unbelievable.

Originally posted by HBCUs
Personally I'd prefer the U.S. to stay out of other folks affairs period, especially when it affects Black folks...... I'm sure I don't have to remind you how we tend to get the short end of the stick when that happens.

But that's not the issue here. The jist of this argument is that America shouldn't go out of it's way to undermine the rule of a democratically-elected leader in the first damn place, then hide it's hands and shake it's head when isht really hits the fan. These events are occurring after years of crippling U.S.-led sanctions and pressured world ostracism, mind you. There's a reason why Haiti is the poorest nation in the western hemisphere..... just ask World Bank. The biggest problem I have with U.S. foreign policy is its schizophenic nature. Don't engage in shady isht aaaaall around the world and at the same time talk this noise about "morality" and "virtue" and "democratic values" when it's convenient. If you're going to be a bully who only really gives a damn about it's own plan of world domination, at least have the balls to be honest about it. Don't hide behind bullisht principles that you know you don't practice.




LOL. So I take it you find such a thing impossible. Totally absurd and implausible, huh? I guess you didn't notice the last 2 centuries of U.S. history???

Everything said here can be applied to ANY countries history the last 2 centuries.
 
Originally posted by hassan
...
Aristide a puppet??

Now i know how Bush is able to get away with so much: ignorance is bliss and a lot of Americans are very happy

:redhot: :mad: :rolleyes:

The public knowledge of the interactions between the US gov't and former Haitian President J-B Aristide are clear. Am I happy? No. But I know that the same folks that elevate you to a post most often have the werewithal to take you down. Aristide, Hussein, and Noriega are modern evidences of the axiom.

My conversations with Haitian national recently traveling to the US and those of missionaries to Haiti support the contention of corruption by Aristide since the time soon after his restoration to office back in the 90's. I have yet to talk to a single Haitian who was pro-Aristide. This is by no means an accurate poll of the Haitian people; just my experiences.
 
Originally posted by dacontinent
The public knowledge of the interactions between the US gov't and former Haitian President J-B Aristide are clear.

How so?

the same folks that elevate you to a post most often have the werewithal to take you down. Aristide, Hussein, and Noriega are modern evidences of the axiom.

How so?

the Bush regime didnt have ANYTHING to do with elevating Aristide

My conversations with Haitian national recently traveling to the US and those of missionaries to Haiti support the contention of corruption by Aristide since the time soon after his restoration to office back in the 90's.

is that A Haitian national?

singular??

that's not saying much

are those "missionaries" American missionaries?

again, that's not saying much

i'm not saying that Lavalas is perfect and angelic but if you want REAL corruption, look up Duvalier, Namphi, Magliore, et al


I have yet to talk to a single Haitian who was pro-Aristide.

you live in Brandon, Florida - i meet more Haitians in Minnesota than i do in Brandon

This is by no means an accurate poll of the Haitian people; just my experiences.

you got that right - very LIMITED experiences

Brandon...
 
"So, why has the Bush Administration decided to rid itself of the Aristide Government?
.
Aristide has always sought to address the crushing poverty and hunger of his countrymen. After following the "free trade" dictates issuing from Washington during the 1980's, Haiti's domestic rice production was in shambles. US subsidies to American farmers left "a hungry nation even hungrier."
.
Aristide knew that "we could either enter the global economic system, in which we cannot survive, or, refuse, and face death by slow starvation." This is the same dire situation that faces many third world countries. For them, free trade is not so free.
.
International donors to poorer countries base their loans on a neoliberal economic plan; lower tariffs, tight monetary control and privatization. These oftentimes have a devastating affect on fragile economies.
.
As Aristide said, "we wanted to guard against a quick total sale of state assets." This is what the IMF required to guarantee the needed loans. When Aristide balked on the sale of state owned cement and flour plants, the hammer came down. The IMF threatened "cutting off all funds to Haiti. The international media followed suit with a frenzy of condemnation and character assassination."
.
This is a familiar pattern for the leaders of countries who try to resist the seizure of their most valuable resources and assets from outside corporations.
.
And, this is essentially how Aristide fell from grace with the Bush administration. He refused to comply with the economic regimen that forces poor countries to deepen their poverty and surrender their assets. He defied the highway robbery that disguises itself as "free trade", but only offers more suffering and grief.
.
As we can see, he paid for his defiance.
.
Make no mistake; this form of despotism is now backed by the full force of the United States Military, the gendarmes of the new economic order.
.
Aristide is just the latest victim."


http://www.counterpunch.com/whitney03022004.html
 
draft

Haiti: A Primer in Injustice
By hassan

Many of the readers of this column may not remember Patrice Lumumba. Lumumba was the democratically elected head of state for an independent African nation who earned mass support among the majority of his impoverished constituents with his genuine anti-colonial platform. Naturally, the same ideology that won him the adoration of his people also marked him as a target for ?The Man.? Lumumba eventually was faced with a radical separatist movement led by a power hungry thug. Naturally, that ambitious rogue enjoyed the financial support of ?The Man.?

According to a Central Intelligence Agency station chief, Lumumba was eventually ?delivered? to that same thug by, you guessed it, ?The Man.? Eventually, with his people?s elected government stolen, Lumumba was tortured and killed by a firing squad.

Many historians are not very religious but most do believe and swear by the ancient credo ?History repeats itself.? It is because of times like these that this writer has to agree. A little over forty years after the rise of and robbery of Lumumba?s nationalist dream, the same thing is happening all over again ? with almost little deviation from the original script ? to Haiti?s President: Jean-Betrand Aristide.

Aristide won much of the same support of Haiti?s poor Black masses that Lumumba did in the Congo. He also received much of the same hate from ?The Man? that Lumumba did. Like Lumumba, Aristide has been abducted and is being held under guard while his fate is being bargained on.

Like Lumumba, Aristide has been the target of corporate media lies that are meant to both cover up and justify punitive actions by ?The Man.?

Let us begin with the first lie: Aristide won the 2000 Presidential election in Haiti by fraud.

When detractors go out of their way to talk about the ?flawed election? of 2000, they are actually talking about the parliamentary elections held that year. During those legislative elections, only eight seats were questioned. Those seats were questioned because the winners in each of those instances won by a plurality of votes, not a majority. In other words, the winners did not garner more than half of the votes cast but they did garner more than their opponents. The real problem for the opposition arose because each of those seats were won by Lavalas party members. Lavalas is the party of which Aristide was the head of.

Crying foul almost before the dust finished settling on election day, the opposition began a campaign of political tantrums made almost legendary by its stamina. They continued to scream ?fraud? so often that, eventually, some of them actually started to believe it.

Contrary to the fabricated image of a brutal Latin American dictator conjured up by mainstream mass media and hostile administrations, Aristide offered ? on many occasions ? to hold new parliamentary elections. Like a spoiled child, the opposition refused to participate in any new elections. Instead, they preferred to call for the immediate removal of Aristide from the President?s office.

Of course, the opposition did not satisfy itself with merely calling for his ouster ? they also worked for it too. With the aid of right-wing Haitians living aboard and the complicity of some foreign governments, the opposition?s monetary, military, and ? most dangerously ? media strength grew as its electoral strength weakened.

To whit, members of the opposition have acknowledged the popular support of Aristide. In a story published by The Miami Times in 2002, opposition member and former Jean-Claude Duvalier cabinet member Daniel Supplice admitted that the Aristide administration was ?the most popular government Haiti?s ever had.?

With that financial help, the opposition was able to assemble a cast of cutthroats and killers, thieves and thugs with one thing in common: a sadistic disregard for the value of human life.

Among the more infamous leaders of the ?opposition? are the following death stars as profiled by the London-based Haiti Support Group:

? Louis Jodel Chamblain ? former co-leader of the Revolutionary Front for Haitian Advancement and Progress (FRAPH). Formed by the military junta that overthrew President Aristide during his first term in office in 1991, FRAPH (which also means ?to hit?) wreaked egregious havoc on the people of Haiti between 1991 and 1994 when President Aristide was restored to power. Chamblain was convicted (in absentia) and sentenced to a life term of hard labor for his involvement in the assassination of a pro-democracy activist. Like his infamous FRAPH co-leader Emmanuel ?Toto? Constant (who is enjoying the pleasures of freedom living in the United States), Chamblain escaped from Haiti to avoid the rule of law. Chamblain reappeared in Haiti recently to help overthrow the constitutionally-sanctioned Aristide government.

? Guy Phillippe ? the rebellion?s most camera-hungry personality was an officer in the same Haitian army that overthrew Aristide during the 1991 coup d?etat. While Haiti was being ruled by the aforementioned junta in the early nineties, Phillippe was one of several officers that was trained by the United State?s Special Forces in South America. After the newly-restored President Aristide disbanded (but did not disarm) the army upon his return, Phillippe managed to secure a post with the newly formed state police. He fled Haiti in 2000 when it was discovered that he (along with other police officials) was plotting another attempt to overthrown the government.


? Jean-Baptiste Joseph ? another former soldier, Joseph was the leader of the Assembly of Soldiers Retired Without Cause (a sort of militant VFW) in 1995. The Assembly was intimately tied to the Mobilization for National Development (MDN), a ?neo-Duvalierist party? that is described as ?leading member? of the Convergence Democratique, the primary alliance of opposition groups that pushed so hard for the outright violent removal of President Jean-Betrand Aristide. Like Phillippe, Joseph was accused of conspiring against the government. He was arrested but broken out of jail in a violent attack on the central police station in Port au Prince a few days later and never brought to trial.

? Jean Tatoune ? was a former ?local leader of FRAPH.? Ten years ago, on April 22, Tatoune (whose real name is Jean Pierre Baptiste) led a attack on a Gona?ves slum named Raboteau, which was a pro-Aristide enclave. When the carnage was done, ?between fifteen and twenty-five people were killed in what became known as the Raboteau massacre.? Convicted and imprisoned for the attack, Tatoune escaped from jail in Gona?ves in 2002 and cast his lot with Amiot Metayer?s Cannibal Army. Amiot was gunned down several months ago and his brother Butter has assumed control of the group.

Another prominent member of the opposition is U. S. citizen Andre Apaid of the Group of 184. Born in the New York City borough of Queens, Apaid is an affluent businessman that is ? like many affluent Haitians ? very anti-Aristide.

According to Mary Turck, editor of Connection to the Americas, the Convergence Democratique (along with other non-affiliated opposition groups) has been funded by the U. S. National Endowment for Democracy. In fact, the Resources to the Americas website reports that the NED ?set up the Haitian Conference of Political Parties (CHPP), a coalition of 26 ?opposition? groups.? The Resources website described the majority of the represented groups as ?right-wing? with many under the leadership of former cronies of both Duvalier regimes as well as that of ex-dictator General Henri Namphy.

In addition to pressure from the aforementioned, President Jean-Bertrand Aristide also was subjected to undue pressure from the neo-liberal economic entities of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. The economic model of neo-liberalism is one that insists upon the removal of trade barriers that normally protect immature industry, big cutbacks on social spending such as education, healthcare, and welfare, the stripping of workers? rights, and the privatization of national resources and assets.

The typical modus operandi of both the World Bank and the IMF is to lend money to poorer countries in exchange for the implementation of neo-liberal economic policies. Taking into account that Aristide?s power base has always been among the poor Black masses of Haiti, he was put in between the largest of rocks and the hardest of places. In order to get the money that his constituency needed, he would have to ?sell out.? If he held firm to his nationalist principles and populist ideologies, the neo-liberal organs would not approve the much-needed loans.

Of course, it was all moot. After finally being approved for a badly needed loan of approximately $300 million dollars, the United States moved to block the disbursement of the loan on grounds that Haiti held ?flawed? elections in May of 2000. The irony of the United States penalizing another country for ?flawed? elections in 2000 is rooted deeply in profound hypocrisy.

Also hypocritical is the United States going to Iraq and Afghanistan to fight for democracy while working to overthrow a democratically elected government in the Caribbean.

In a telephone interview earlier this week, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas stated that she was ?outraged? by the actions of the Bush administration in Haiti.

Initially choosing to stay out of the fight being won by forces it supported, the White House ignored pleas by Representatives Jackson Lee, Maxine Waters and other members of the Congressional Black Caucus, the Caribbean Community, and even President Aristide himself to help quell the rebellion and restore order. Described by Congresswoman Waters as a ?wrong-headed policy?, the Bush team stood by and effectively let the legitimate government of Haiti be usurped by a band of bandits and mercernaries.

Further troubling are the rising allegations that not only did the U.S. military compel Aristide to resign and leave (under the threat of being turned over to Phillippe) but also that the Haitian President is being guarded by American and French soldiers in the tiny Central African Republic (a pseudo-nation state described as a French stooge).

What is probably most disheartening about all of this is that the information contained herein represents a mere fraction of what freedom-loving Americans should know about but do not. That, all by itself, it as sad as it gets.
 
Originally posted by HBCUs
The U.S. backed a dude named Marc Bazin, who summarily got his azz whipped in that election, 67% to 14%.

he aint lying:

In April [of 2003], the U.S. National Endowment for Democracy, acting through the International Republican Institute, set up the Haitian Conference of Political Parties (CHPP), a coalition of 26 ?opposition? groups. Most of the parties are right-wing groups, including several headed by former officials who served under ex-dictators Fran?ois and Jean-Claude Duvalier or the military regime of Gen. Henri Namphy. The better-known include Leslie Manigat, a former president installed through a military-run election, and Marc Bazin, a former World Bank official who served as Jean-Claude Duvalier?s finance minister in 1982. In the December 16, 1990, presidential election, Bazin finished a distant second, despite millions of campaign dollars from the NED.

link

*by the way, Bazin eventually ended up being a "minister without portfolio" in the Aristide government (that means that he was something of an at large minister with no defined duties).
I got to "know" Bazin pretty well when i interviewed two years ago
 



Now it's all clear.

It is all much clearer to me now the reactions from both sides. Bill Clinton was instrumental in setting up Aristede,,, thus the swift reaction of the left,,,,, and the alacrity of the right. :rolleyes: i should have known.
 
Originally posted by hassan
How so?

[/B]

The NED also put up money for Bazin. Special Forces troops were sent in and funded by the NED for the purposes of the election. I live in Brandon, FL. Half of the people who work at SOCOM live within a 2 mile radius of me. Since a number of them were high-ranking deploys for the occasion, I will take their word for it.

Originally posted by hassan

the Bush regime didnt have ANYTHING to do with elevating Aristide


Sure did. The link you posted says so.


Originally posted by hassan

is that A Haitian national?

singular??

that's not saying much

are those "missionaries" American missionaries?

again, that's not saying much

i'm not saying that Lavalas is perfect and angelic but if you want REAL corruption, look up Duvalier, Namphi, Magliore, et al

you live in Brandon, Florida - i meet more Haitians in Minnesota than i do in Brandon

you got that right - very LIMITED experiences

Brandon...

I live in Brandon, FLORIDA...you know...the state where Haitians try to land when the flee their country on everything from makeshift rafts to highjacked freighters. Now, I cannot vouch for Minnesota. I have never been there. But, I know that you have been to Florida and know that there are maybe hundreds of thousands of Haitians here and more arriving every day. So, I get to talk with hundreds of them. The missionaries that I talk with are some American and some Haitian nationals. I have not been to Haiti myself. I do hope to go in the next couple of years for a short-term missions trip.

Papa Doc and those cats were awful. Aristide was a mere agitation by comparison. The people of Haiti are not going to put up with oppression from the leader of the nation. They have been through too much to sit idly by and watch it happen to them again from within.

So, yes, my experiences are very limited. I understand what I "know" from conversing those who have and do live and sojourn there and from those high-ranking officers who have been militarily deployed there for US government purposes. Perhaps you and others on this forum have more cogent experiences than I.


Brandon maybe country, but we do have major roads to south Florida adjacent to it. I do travel.;)
 
um... i thought that the HQ of the Southern Command was located on NW 36 Street, right by Miami International Airport

are you sure that you're not talking about Central Command?

i'd check that (otherwise that is a heck of a commute)

as for 'having been' to Florida, i was born and raised there

"hundreds" of Haitians? in Brandon

ok, i'll take your word for it - for now

as for missionaries and military personnel and what they have to say about Haiti ... Haiti is just another place to exploit via [you ready for this?] the Bible AND the Sword

HAVE MERCY!

now, as per your statement that my link "says" that the Bush regime had something to do with ELEVATING Aristide, show it to me

PLEASE
 
Originally posted by hassan
um... i thought that the HQ of the Southern Command was located on NW 36 Street, right by Miami International Airport

are you sure that you're not talking about Central Command?


i'd check that (otherwise that is a heck of a commute)

Tampa/MacDill is HQ for CENTCOM. SOCOM HQ is out of Miami/Homestead. There are several SOCOM detachments in MacDill.

Originally posted by hassan
as for 'having been' to Florida, i was born and raised there

Nice to know that there is another native Floridian on these boards. ;)

Originally posted by hassan
"hundreds" of Haitians? in Brandon

ok, i'll take your word for it - for now
There are only a few thousand Blacks in all of Brandon. There were less than 100 when I moved here 17 years ago. There are thousands in Tampa (12 miles away) where I worked in ministry in the inner city for more than a decade and where my wife continues to work as a social worker.

Originally posted by hassan
as for missionaries and military personnel and what they have to say about Haiti ... Haiti is just another place to exploit via [you ready for this?] the Bible AND the Sword

HAVE MERCY!

That is my prayer for Haiti - MERCY. You know that I am all for taking the Bible to Haiti. Fortunately, there were no US casualties or US-caused casualties in the restoration of President Aristide.


Originally posted by hassan
now, as per your statement that my link "says" that the Bush regime had something to do with ELEVATING Aristide, show it to me

PLEASE

As you requested:
The Bush administration?s initial reaction to the coup appeared unequivocally to support the reinstatement of President Aristide. On October 2, at the emergency meeting of the Ministers of Foreign Affairs, U.S. Secretary of State James Baker raised the possibility of collective action "to defend the legitimate government of President Aristide," and vowed that "until President Aristide?s government is restored, this junta will be treated as a pariah, without friends, without support and without a future."6 On October 4, in an exchange with reporters preceding a meeting with President Aristide, President Bush affirmed that "the United States is joining the rest of the world in calling for the restoration of a democratically elected leader who?s sitting right next to me."

President Bush declared a national emergency, finding that the illegal seizure of power by the Haitian military posed an unusual and extraordinary threat to the United States However, in contrast to the comprehensive economic and trade sanctions imposed by the United States against Iraq on the day following the invasion of Kuwait, Executive Order 12775,7 issued on October 4, 1991, pursuant to the IEEPA, merely blocked the assets of the Haitian Government and prohibited financial transactions with the de facto regime. In accord with the requirements of the IEEPA, the President reported the national emergency to the Congress on October 4.
...
The United States was still not prepared to use force. In December 1992, when the Prime Minister of Canada urged a multinational blockade of Haiti by naval forces from Canada, the United States, France, and Venezuela, among others, he encountered no support from the United States or any of these other nations.20 In short, there was no political will in the United States or in most other nations to use military force to assure compliance with the embargo. Apparently, further negotiations with the de facto regime were still considered a viable option to resolve the crisis.

In fairness to the Bush administration, without a Council Resolution mandating a blockade, the international legal basis for such unilateral action by the United States in 1992 would have been even more tenuous than the basis for the quarantine of Cuba in 1962 or the naval interdiction of Iraq unilaterally imposed by President Bush in August 1990. At least in the case of Cuba there had been a nonbinding OAS Resolution recommending the quarantine and some basis, if the United States had elected to do so, for invoking the right of collective self-defense against an imminent nuclear threat presented by the Soviet missiles.21 In the case of Iraq, the United Nations had imposed mandatory sanctions and the Amir of Kuwait had requested military assistance to liberate his nation. However, in 1992, the U.N. Council had not yet imposed any sanctions against Haiti. Unlike the Amir of Kuwait, President Aristide had rejected any use of military force, and there had been no armed attack, or even a threat thereof, against another State by the de facto Haitian regime that could give rise to a claim of collective self-defense.

;)
 
Originally posted by dacontinent
As you requested:
The Bush administration?s initial reaction to the coup appeared unequivocally to support the reinstatement of President Aristide. On October 2, at the emergency meeting of the Ministers of Foreign Affairs, U.S. Secretary of State James Baker raised the possibility of collective action "to defend the legitimate government of President Aristide," and vowed that "until President Aristide?s government is restored, this junta will be treated as a pariah, without friends, without support and without a future."6 On October 4, in an exchange with reporters preceding a meeting with President Aristide, President Bush affirmed that "the United States is joining the rest of the world in calling for the restoration of a democratically elected leader who?s sitting right next to me."

President Bush declared a national emergency, finding that the illegal seizure of power by the Haitian military posed an unusual and extraordinary threat to the United States However, in contrast to the comprehensive economic and trade sanctions imposed by the United States against Iraq on the day following the invasion of Kuwait, Executive Order 12775,7 issued on October 4, 1991, pursuant to the IEEPA, merely blocked the assets of the Haitian Government and prohibited financial transactions with the de facto regime. In accord with the requirements of the IEEPA, the President reported the national emergency to the Congress on October 4.
...
The United States was still not prepared to use force. In December 1992, when the Prime Minister of Canada urged a multinational blockade of Haiti by naval forces from Canada, the United States, France, and Venezuela, among others, he encountered no support from the United States or any of these other nations.20 In short, there was no political will in the United States or in most other nations to use military force to assure compliance with the embargo. Apparently, further negotiations with the de facto regime were still considered a viable option to resolve the crisis.

In fairness to the Bush administration, without a Council Resolution mandating a blockade, the international legal basis for such unilateral action by the United States in 1992 would have been even more tenuous than the basis for the quarantine of Cuba in 1962 or the naval interdiction of Iraq unilaterally imposed by President Bush in August 1990. At least in the case of Cuba there had been a nonbinding OAS Resolution recommending the quarantine and some basis, if the United States had elected to do so, for invoking the right of collective self-defense against an imminent nuclear threat presented by the Soviet missiles.21 In the case of Iraq, the United Nations had imposed mandatory sanctions and the Amir of Kuwait had requested military assistance to liberate his nation. However, in 1992, the U.N. Council had not yet imposed any sanctions against Haiti. Unlike the Amir of Kuwait, President Aristide had rejected any use of military force, and there had been no armed attack, or even a threat thereof, against another State by the de facto Haitian regime that could give rise to a claim of collective self-defense.

;) [/B]

what's the original link to this article? thanks.
 
yes, while the first Bush regime was issuing empty rhetoric to the effect of "supporting" Aristide, in reality they were training the goons that seized power.

US Special Forces trained many Haitian soldiers during that time in Ecuador. Among the soldiers that received this special training: Guy Phillippe.
 
Maybe I am missing something. I do not see where the first Bush administration had anything to elevate Aristide. Empty rhetoric is not elevating someone. Anyway, those rebels are not freedom fighters in my mind but are thugs.

Also, the conservatives in Congress were against Artistide as I saw it. The U.S. view of him dimmed when the republicans gained control of Congress.
 
Religion.

Is it true that haiti is predominantly voo doo when it comes to religion and the Dominican Republic is predominantly catholic?
 
there is an old saying among Haitians that they are 80% Catholic and 100 % vodun

that really is not too different from other Caribbean people

for those of you not familiar with our culture, dont take it at face value

what it really means is that vodun/santeria/obeah/sango/et al has such a big effect on our collective culture and overall spirituality that even those of us that are devoutly Catholic/Adventist/Muslim/Witness/Baptist/et al are familiar and have the appropriate respect for the African religions of our kinfolk/neighbors

*Dominicans are no less influenced by the religions of West African than the rest of us

:)
 
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